Hurting for business...but hurting their business??

[matsuki]

Maybe it's just a Niigata thing, maybe it's just an inaka thing, or maybe it's part of a Japanese thing....but WTF is up with companies making purchases unreasonably difficult or simply refusing to sell to you?

First it was the log companies, met with 5 different companies...all seemed friendly, all complained about how shitty business is lately over tea and admired my log cabin effort, and only one of them followed up with an actual price estimate. (this was after they stopped returning calls and a local dude took me there, not realizing I had already spoken to them) In the end, the estimate was about 12X what the fair market value estimate should be so all the effort was useless and I'm probably going to order whatever I need (after logging my own land) from my friend's contact in Mie. (yes, cheaper to truck it in from Mie than buy local...) Local German expat that built a log house in the area nearby 40 years ago...he was saying he had the same issues and ended up importing logs from Canada on his own.

Same goes on and one with several of the companies in the area...most recently I needed to buy a bunch of bentonite (basically the same clay as kitty litter) to line my empty pond with and encourage it to actually hold the water flowing in. Wags found an actual bentonite operation right near me so I call them up, get transferred, get the seki hazureteru,, etc. for a few weeks. Finally I get ahold of the right person this morning...with a specific weight, specific type of bentonite, and he starts giving me the third degree, asking what I need it for (in crazy detail) and how I found them. After all that, I get a "sorry, we don't do direct sales, only deal with companies." I reply, I have a company, if you need a purchase order e-mailed (or faxed ) to you with all the necessary info, I can send it right over....only to start getting questions about what my company does, how long it's been in business, etc. Still not good enough...fuuuuuuuuuuck! I ended up ordering 120kg elsewhere (online) for a fairly reasonable price and shipping.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Dude, I feel your pain. I've tried to help several friends with small companies based outside of Japan purchase different products and materials over the years only to be met with "Sorry, we can only sell to you if blah, blah, blah." One of the problems is most sales people here aren't compensated for how much they sell. They get a fixed salary and only care about hitting their targets so they don't get a bad review from their boss.

You ever wonder about all those salarymen crowding up cafes in the middle of the workday smoking cigs or napping? Most of them are salesmen who've already hit their quota so instead of trying to make more sales they piss away the rest of the day. If they were to go back to the office they'd have to stay till bucho went home but if they're out "selling" they can go home at a reasonable hour. Plus they'd probably be told to get out there and sell when they really have no incentive to do so.

I've often said that money talks in Japan but not loud enough. Plus there's the extreme risk aversion so unless you've got an intro from someone they trust, they don't dare do business with you. Especially not a shady-ass gaijin.

[matsuki]

Dude, I feel your pain. I've tried to help several friends with small companies based outside of Japan purchase different products and materials over the years only to be met with "Sorry, we can only sell to you if blah, blah, blah." One of the problems is most sales people here aren't compensated for how much they sell. They get a fixed salary and only care about hitting their targets so they don't get a bad review from their boss.

You ever wonder about all those salarymen crowding up cafes in the middle of the workday smoking cigs or napping? Most of them are salesmen who've already hit their quota so instead of trying to make more sales they piss away the rest of the day. If they were to go back to the office they'd have to stay till bucho went home but if they're out "selling" they can go home at a reasonable hour. Plus they'd probably be told to get out there and sell when they really have no incentive to do so.

I've often said that money talks in Japan but not loud enough.

Yeah, I've dealt with those types before but usually some pushing works. They may not want to put in the extra effort but if they think you might call them out on turning down business to the boss or other superior, they suddenly get real motivated. Half the companies I'm having issues with are small family run operations though...in those cases:

Plus there's the extreme risk aversion so unless you've got an intro from someone they trust, they don't dare do business with you. Especially not a shady-ass gaijin.

I took the route of having J-people be the first point of contact with them so it wasn't just a gaijin thing but it seems like they worry about the "unknown unknown risk" in selling something to someone they don't know?? It's really bizarre as I'm always clear I can pay upfront....which should be the only risk they should be concerned with. It's not like I'm buying plutonium and telling them it's to bring out more color in my roses.

[wagyl]

I'm sorry that the clay didn't work out.

How did you find us? You enter "clay" and "municipality name" in the search engine of your choice, they come up first hit........ Maybe they should keep their address off the interweb!

Maybe the small operations where I am are even more desperate for money, I have had more success getting supplies locally. Then again, I am usually going to the top and speaking to the big boss. I think I would probably have little success with the underlings.

On a slightly related note, I have at times had setbacks because I do not have a company structure. I work alone and it is my own hands-on craft, so the person doing the work does not change with the business organisation structure. The extra administration involved with incorporating has never made the benefits of it worthwhile, but it is interesting that they feel more comfortable with dealling with a company.

If they knew the truth, there are many ways that transactions with a company are a bigger risk to them: as an individual, I can be sued for every sen I own, be it for debt or for liability for a mistake I make. If I am a company, that liability is limited to the tiny tiny capital that was used to set the company up.

[matsuki]

How did you find us? You enter "clay" and "municipality name" in the search engine of your choice, they come up first hit........ Maybe they should keep their address off the interweb!

Exactly what's so bizarre...but the land of forever Yahoo! still seems still filled with people confused about the purpose of the interweb.

Maybe the small operations where I am are even more desperate for money, I have had more success getting supplies locally. Then again, I am usually going to the top and speaking to the big boss. I think I would probably have little success with the underlings.

Most of them, it was the owner I was dealing with...the clay play was the condescending toned bucho after getting past the polite robot underlings.

On a slightly related note, I have at times had setbacks because I do not have a company structure. I work alone and it is my own hands-on craft, so the person doing the work does not change with the business organisation structure. The extra administration involved with incorporating has never made the benefits of it worthwhile, but it is interesting that they feel more comfortable with dealling with a company.

If they knew the truth, there are many ways that transactions with a company are a bigger risk to them: as an individual, I can be sued for every sen I own, be it for debt or for liability for a mistake I make. If I am a company, that liability is limited to the tiny tiny capital that was used to set the company up.

Exactly why I have a limited liability company...and my employer has given me free reign to drop the local kabushikigaisha info as if it's my own, when needed. Clay bucho dude just had no interest in his clay sales company...selling clay? Maybe the clay bidness isn't hurting as bad as the loggers but turning down an easy sale without rhyme or reason...PRAY FOR JAPAN!

[wagyl]

Meh, they are nothing more than a big cat toilet.

[Wage Slave]

Local German expat that built a log house in the area nearby 40 years ago...he was saying he had the same issues and ended up importing logs from Canada on his own.

Is this the guy exporting Koi? If so, he imported the house as a pre-cut, drilled and routed kit I believe.

[matsuki]

Meh, they are nothing more than a big cat toilet.

Local German expat that built a log house in the area nearby 40 years ago...he was saying he had the same issues and ended up importing logs from Canada on his own.

Is this the guy exporting Koi? If so, he imported the house as a pre-cut, drilled and routed kit I believe.

I never asked him about Koi...you have his info? Dude I know is named Klaus...whose name I will never forget since I made some sorta "German? is your name Klaus?" joke before he introduced himself.

[Wage Slave]

Meh, they are nothing more than a big cat toilet.

Local German expat that built a log house in the area nearby 40 years ago...he was saying he had the same issues and ended up importing logs from Canada on his own.

Is this the guy exporting Koi? If so, he imported the house as a pre-cut, drilled and routed kit I believe.

I never asked him about Koi...you have his info? Dude I know is named Klaus...whose name I will never forget since I made some sorta "German? is your name Klaus?" joke before he introduced himself.

I have a phone number somewhere but it would take some hunting down. I talked to his wife a fair bit so got chapter and verse on the house build. Might not have been quite 40 years ago though - more like 25? And I have a feeling he may have bought the house from Finland now I think about it. Maybe there are two German log house builders in Mie. What part of Mie are we talking about?

[matsuki]

Ahhhh, no, he's in Niigata. I haven't actually seen his house yet but I promised to come bug him some time when I'm in town.

[Wage Slave]

Ahhhh, no, he's in Niigata. I haven't actually seen his house yet but I promised to come bug him some time when I'm in town.

Oh, I see. Although my German also spends quite a lot of time in Niigata by chance. Apparently there are quite a lot of Koi breeders there.

[matsuki]

Ahhhh, no, he's in Niigata. I haven't actually seen his house yet but I promised to come bug him some time when I'm in town.

Oh, I see. Although my German also spends quite a lot of time in Niigata by chance. Apparently there are quite a lot of Koi breeders there.

Yeah, I just saw that after you mentioned it. Of all the things to get popular from Japan...

[wagyl]

The things you miss when you don't take the local roads, matsuki...
https://www.google.co.jp/maps/@37.30952 ... 56!6m1!1e1

[matsuki]

LOL, actually, my preferred route to my place (when coming from that direction) is not the Hwy but I've never seen those before. Just tons and tons of that ugly white bird with the red face they are so fond of)

On a side note that's on topic, the city-area of my playground must be a relic of the Niigata channel of funds days...soo much effort and better looking than many places in Tokyo. So few people and business still there.

https://goo.gl/maps/bqvSbsh9miS2

Look at all those shuttered businesses...without the rats nest of powerlines and even a covered walkway!!

[wagyl]

I can't speak for certain, but I have a suspicion that the shutters might be a function of day of the week or time of day.

As for the arcades and underground power: yes, Niigata has benefitted from political largesse -- just look at those roads! -- but it also comes down to three words: heavy wet snow. There comes a time when you realise that preventing power lines being downed by the snowfalls, and keeping the footpaths clear with a permanent method, is better than the constant maintenance you otherwise face.

If you are going to be spending any time in Niigata, get to know トキ the crested ibis Nipponia nippon.

[Samurai_Jerk]

What hideous beasts.

ibis.jpg

[matsuki]

I can't speak for certain, but I have a suspicion that the shutters might be a function of day of the week or time of day.

As for the arcades and underground power: yes, Niigata has benefitted from political largesse -- just look at those roads! -- but it also comes down to three words: heavy wet snow. There comes a time when you realise that preventing power lines being downed by the snowfalls, and keeping the footpaths clear with a permanent method, is better than the constant maintenance you otherwise face.

It just sucks there are less and less people there to enjoy it....

If you are going to be spending any time in Niigata, get to know トキ the crested ibis Nipponia nippon.

That's the fucker! They even insist on making those construction barrier supports shaped like cute anime versions of it.



SJ, they aren't so nice in person...but maybe they taste like chicken?

[wuchan]

Mitsuki,

Your friends with he log business probably have a supply deal with a large house builder like Sumitomo. If they sell you logs and then get a large order from their buddies that they can't 100% fulfill the house builder can and will sue them for obstruction of business. The large companies here use the legal system to keep their smaller suppliers under their thumb. In the end the suppliers end up with only one customer and refuse to do business with anyone else. If they only sell to XXX company and have records they can't be sued if they can't fill an order.

[inflames]

I've often said that money talks in Japan but not loud enough. Plus there's the extreme risk aversion so unless you've got an intro from someone they trust, they don't dare do business with you. Especially not a shady-ass gaijin.

IME money just doesn't talk in Japan.

I had a friend (who I haven't spoken to in years) who worked at a trading company - apparently the first thing people would ask when he called was who he knew.

Tons of experiences as a customer where the staff really don't seem to want your business.

[legion]

Mitsuki,

Your friends with he log business probably have a supply deal with a large house builder like Sumitomo. If they sell you logs and then get a large order from their buddies that they can't 100% fulfill the house builder can and will sue them for obstruction of business. The large companies here use the legal system to keep their smaller suppliers under their thumb. In the end the suppliers end up with only one customer and refuse to do business with anyone else. If they only sell to XXX company and have records they can't be sued if they can't fill an order.

sounds believable

and builders will be adding a percentage to the cost of the materials in their estimates so they don't want laymen obtaining a record of the real cost of those materials

[matsuki]

Mitsuki,

Your friends with he log business probably have a supply deal with a large house builder like Sumitomo. If they sell you logs and then get a large order from their buddies that they can't 100% fulfill the house builder can and will sue them for obstruction of business. The large companies here use the legal system to keep their smaller suppliers under their thumb. In the end the suppliers end up with only one customer and refuse to do business with anyone else. If they only sell to XXX company and have records they can't be sued if they can't fill an order.

sounds believable

and builders will be adding a percentage to the cost of the materials in their estimates so they don't want laymen obtaining a record of the real cost of those materials

Quite possible with some places but the places I was going to were selling logs, not dimensional lumber. (use maybe 1 or 2 in a house, if at all...and he had a whole yard of them...hence the demand being down) He also said it would take time to gather the logs needed for my order...one was actually importing prepeeled logs from Canada but they weren't cheap and were a lil beat up by the time they arrived. Dude would have to put in an order for me and they would never even touch his property so I don't think it was an issue of supply...just weird old Japanese dudeness.

I've often said that money talks in Japan but not loud enough. Plus there's the extreme risk aversion so unless you've got an intro from someone they trust, they don't dare do business with you. Especially not a shady-ass gaijin.

IME money just doesn't talk in Japan.

I had a friend (who I haven't spoken to in years) who worked at a trading company - apparently the first thing people would ask when he called was who he knew.

Tons of experiences as a customer where the staff really don't seem to want your business.

I wouldn't say it doesn't talk but even a simple drinking buddy that makes the call for you seems to be more motivating than just making some money from a new customer. As Taro has often put it, there's the real world, and then there's Japan.