Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

[havill]

Funny thing is though, dementia will probably start kicking in soon and then I'll be back to square one,
I wonder if an advantage of a second language would double the time it'll take.

Actually (not joking): http://bit.ly/1owvMCd

[Samurai_Jerk]

It's a delusion that if you speak fluent Japanese you'll have more friends and have a better job. It's one of the most serious misgivings that afflict people who have only been here for a couple of years, like this author.

Learn Japanese if you like the language - its sound, structure, kanji etc. But for economic reasons I'm sceptical on a cost/benefit basis. Even if you have the Japanese, maybe it will have some marginal influence on your career or social prospects, but at least in the work field it comes down to your foreignness or specialist knowledge or skills. Japanese is an add on in many respects.

Socially, it makes little real difference. You won't make friends with JP only speaking men in the first place, nor would you probably want to. JP women are more sociable and friendly. Maybe it's good for speaking with them but most will speak English anyway.

Socially, it makes a huge difference. Most of my friends are Japanese men who don't speak English. If you can't make friends with the locals, you're an arrogant asshole. That's all there is to it. And the people who claim the women are so much cooler which is why they have female friends but no male friends are full of shit. The fact is you tolerate the women despite the fact they're Japanese because they have pussies which I completely understand. However, don't try to spin as anything other than you don't like Japanese people that much but have a thing for Japanese pussy and like being a gaijin in Japan. Besides unless you're a gay man who likes to hang out with fag hags, why would you want female friends?

It can also make a big difference professionally. At the very least it gives you more options (the same can be said for your social life). Maybe you can do your job without Japanese ability but with it there are that many more places where you can work. I could definitely do my job without Japanese ability. However, I couldn't work for my current company without it and I wouldn't have the same kind of relationship I have with my coworkers without it (I really like my company and coworker for the record). Speaking the language also gives you more options to move up into management within a lot of companies. There are more than a few top guys in the Japan offices of foreign firms that are lifers who are fluent in Japanese. A lot of them wouldn't be in those positions without their fluency in the language and culture.

Japanese ability is also important in terms of overall quality of life. When I first got here I needed help to do most things. Now, even with my half-assed Japanese, I can do pretty much everything on my own. Whether it's calling the air conditioner repairman, buying travel insurance at the airport, checking Tabelog for the best yakitori joint in the neighborhood, renting an apartment, or finding a specific item in the home center, that is what really makes life here easier. Of course Japanese ability won't make up for a shitty personality or lack of marketable skills. And some Weeaboo college kid majoring in Japanese because he thinks that's all he needs to make it in Japan is heading towards a very disappointing reality once he graduates and lands that sweet eikaiwa gig in Nagoya. However, if you're already here for some reason or another, it's definitely worthwhile to learn the language.

I hazn't st00died Japanesego... I'd rather speak with the smart ones who speak english than the unwashed masses limited to their countryside variation of the slaughter...

Intelligence has nothing to do with language ability and some of the biggest bores you'll meet in Japan are the ones who arrogantly think they know everything about the world because they speak English well. They're also often the ones who are least able to look at Japan with a critical eye and spew a lot of right-wing nihonjinron bullshit.

Before SJ push his usual schtick that I can't criticize without having learned... The same way you can't tell bad food without being a professional cook or tell a bad car without being a fully qualified engineer

There's a big difference. You can still eat food and decide whether or not you like the taste or drive a car and decide whether or not it handles well. In in the end that's really what's most important because those are consumer goods so what the consumer thinks is the point. What you're doing is more like claiming quantum physics is bullshit based on a physics class you slept through in high school and a Depak Chopra lecture you saw on Youtube. Or if you want to stick with food analogies, it would be like getting a Muslim's opinion on the best baby back ribs in town.

By the way, it's spelled "shtick."

[havill]

↑ Amen.

[Hijinx]

If you can't make friends with the locals, you're an arrogant asshole.

Actually, I find that most J-men are "arrogant assholes" with whom I don't care to be friendly. I am friendly with many J-folk, but those I could truly call friends could all fit into one car--and they're female.

[Yokohammer]

I have one really good male Japanese friend who thinks of me as a brother more than a friend, I think. Altough he's back in Tokyo while I'm up here in the northern tundras he brought his bride-to-be all the way up here just to introduce her to me before they got married. That kind of friend. I'd trust the guy with anything. But that's the only one I'm that close to. Lots of others I get along with just fine, but real friends are a rarity in any culture.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I have one really good male Japanese friend who thinks of me as a brother more than a friend, I think. Altough he's back in Tokyo while I'm up here in the northern tundras he brought his bride-to-be all the way up here just to introduce her to me before they got married. That kind of friend. I'd trust the guy with anything. But that's the only one I'm that close to. Lots of others I get along with just fine, but real friends are a rarity in any culture.

While I do think there are some cultural difference that can make it tough to get close with Japanese people, I also think that a lot of guys who come here fresh out of college don't realize that the difficulty in making "real" friends like they had back home is more about age than it is about being in Japan. If you grow up and live in one place and then relocate to a new city where you don't know anyone for a job years after you've completed school, you probably won't make friends like you had back home even if it's in the same country. I've lived in the Tokyo area for nearly 12 years and have some good foreign and Japanese friends that I've known for years. However, there are only a couple that I would put on the same level as my junior high and high school buddies in NY. Same goes for friends I made working in Seattle in my late 20's.

[CrankyBastard]

I have one really good male Japanese friend who thinks of me as a brother more than a friend, I think. Altough he's back in Tokyo while I'm up here in the northern tundras he brought his bride-to-be all the way up here just to introduce her to me before they got married. That kind of friend. I'd trust the guy with anything. But that's the only one I'm that close to. Lots of others I get along with just fine, but real friends are a rarity in any culture.

While I do think there are some cultural difference that can make it tough to get close with Japanese people, I also think that a lot of guys who come here fresh out of college don't realize that the difficulty in making "real" friends like they had back home is more about age than it is about being in Japan. If you grow up and live in one place and then relocate to a new city where you don't know anyone for a job years after you've completed school, you probably won't make friends like you had back home even if it's in the same country. I've lived in the Tokyo area for nearly 12 years and have some good foreign and Japanese friends that I've known for years. However, there are only a couple that I would put on the same level as my junior high and high school buddies in NY. Same goes for friends I made working in Seattle in my late 20's.

That's pretty much what I've found, too.
友達, 友人, 仲間, ダチ公 or ツレ, but none that I'd want to share a condom with.

[Coligny]

[list][*]Your Japanese isn't good enough to hold an intelligent, lengthy, interesting conversation.
[*]... and/or: You're a bitter bore (the "Type 7"s) that has a negative viewpoint about everything in Japan all the time (except for food & drink and service — the "consumer gaijin").

I'm always disturbed by these kind of listing because the authors never tells me which kind of gaijin I'm allowed to be in his Japan...

Will keep with the "useless toy boy" line of business to be safe...

[havill]

• Your Japanese isn't good enough to hold an intelligent, lengthy, interesting conversation.
• ... and/or: You're a bitter bore (the "Type 7"s) that has a negative viewpoint about everything in Japan all the time (except for food & drink and service — the "consumer gaijin").

I'm always disturbed by these kind of listing because the authors never tells me which kind of gaijin I'm allowed to be in his Japan...

[Wage Slave]

[Coligny]

• Your Japanese isn't good enough to hold an intelligent, lengthy, interesting conversation.
• ... and/or: You're a bitter bore (the "Type 7"s) that has a negative viewpoint about everything in Japan all the time (except for food & drink and service — the "consumer gaijin").

I'm always disturbed by these kind of listing because the authors never tells me which kind of gaijin I'm allowed to be in his Japan...

I think you misspelled potato...

[Takechanpoo]

lulz... me teiks itt u harvnt lurnt da local lengwidge then?

Keep coming up with reasons to justify why you haven't learned the language pidgin yet...

Fixed dat' fer youz...

I hazn't st00died Japanesego... I'd rather speak with the smart ones who speak english than the unwashed masses limited to their countryside variation of the slaughter...

Before SJ push his usual schtick that I can't criticize without having learned... The same way you can't tell bad food without being a professional cook or tell a bad car without being a fully qualified engineer...

A local just speak japanese...
99% of the web is for him like a dark internet
His new-sources are Fuji TV or NHK
At best his childhood readings included little black sambo
On the really limited chance that he read books (not manga, sorry, it's not reading) he only had access to censored/translated version. Same goes for movies. Even more frightening, in a technical field he has no access to original foreign material and bulletins. His history books reading involve more suspension of disbelief than watching Iron Man 2...

From a sociological standpoint, the intellectual gallapagos-ization can be fascinating...
For a discussion about where the Ukraine crisis is going... That might be a little more troublesome... Unless you want to hear that travel by plane is still much safer than by car... Because stats are numbers and numbers are science... And stuff...

so how do you justify that you and your pathetic..uh... proud french auto firm cannot live without infesting Nissans sales and patents which those speaking-only-japanese guys invented? eh? as you do know, nobody buy damn french cars except french fellows in the world and even in europe
and sadly even Nissan is on the verge of being fucked up.
how pathetic

and i am sure you are hated and abused by japanese inshitsu(陰湿) style by your japanese coworkers and you lurk on this FG.com every single days
originally you were hated and bullied in french and escaped to japan but also are hated and bullied even here.
and then next your going to escape to thailand or other mongo countries? eh?
i guarantee you will be also hated and bullied there again and again

[Samurai_Jerk]

and i am sure you are hated and abused by japanese inshitsu(陰湿) style by your japanese coworkers

Takenchan, he doesn't have coworkers. He's a ヒモ.

[Wage Slave]

I thought he was a kept man. But a pimp you say? How does that work then?

[Russell]

I thought he was a kept man. But a pimp you say? How does that work then?

He would only be a pimp when his wife would be a prostitute.

Absent that, he is just a gigolo. (and a proud one at that...)

[Samurai_Jerk]

I thought he was a kept man. But a pimp you say? How does that work then?

ヒモ literally means pimp but it's also used to describe a guy whose wife supports him. In other words she's out on the street busting her hump while he does nothing but wait for her to bring home the bacon.

[Wage Slave]

Ah, I see. A ponce rather than strictly speaking, a pimp. Anyway, no workmates to be bullied by, that's for sure.

[Wage Slave]

What's a mongo country when it's at home?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongo_(Blazing_Saddles) ??

[Dreamy_Peach]

I would humbly say that it is pretty fluent.

No way we can assess that over the internet, so I'll take your word for it. What we can assess from your previous posts here, though, is that you're awfully knowledgeable and familiar with the gaijin/Roppongi/expat bar life.

My god, you went and read my previous posts. I'm sorry for the waste of your time.

Anyway, yep. There is nothing else. I'm not sure about Type 7. For the most part I'm quite public about my dislike of Tokyo. I don't actually mind the countryside parts. The only real time I enjoy Tokyo is when I'm drunk, and then I also turn into the Type 6.

[Coligny]

Absent that, he is just a gigolo. (and a proud one at that...)

Nah, neither proud nor ashamed, just not giving much of a fuck on what's thought of my situation and adding sand to the squeaky gears for shit and giggles...
(You don't like Pokemans... let me show you my collection...)

ヒモ literally means pimp but it's also used to describe a guy whose wife supports him

The jokes are writing themselves on this thread... one word for pimp to house(pet/husband)...
That would be funny if the balance of power was not the exact opposite for those two. But hey, what do you expect of a pidgin...
(Blue, green, 青... who the fuck cares anymore, grunting seems more than enough for most TV shows anyway...)

[havill]

My god, you went and read my previous posts. I'm sorry for the waste of your time.

No worries; it's literally just 2 clicks and three taps of the spacebar with 15 seconds of skimming.

[Coligny]

so how do you justify that you and your pathetic..uh... proud french auto firm cannot live without infesting Nissans sales and patents which those speaking-only-japanese guys invented? eh? as you do know, nobody buy damn french cars except french fellows in the world and even in europe
and sadly even Nissan is on the verge of being fucked up.
how pathetic

I don't even...

and i am sure you are hated and abused by japanese inshitsu(陰湿) style by your japanese coworkers and you lurk on this FG.com every single days
originally you were hated and bullied in french and escaped to japan but also are hated and bullied even here.
and then next your going to escape to thailand or other mongo countries? eh?
i guarantee you will be also hated and bullied there again and again

Check the expiry date on your ramen... it's melting your brain... Or are you just projecting your misery on me to feel better ? In a normal country you should seek help from a shrink... Here... well let's wait that you behead a school/workmate or go in rampage in akihabara...

[Samurai_Jerk]

The jokes are writing themselves on this thread... one word for pimp to house(pet/husband)

It's not a serious expression and is generally used as a joke, dumbass. It's funny that you have so much trouble with a pidgin since they are know to be very easy languages to master.

[matsuki]

Just my two yen but while I do have a few male Japanese friends that are awesome, I would agree that Japanese males (in general) are fucking terrible at making friends anywhere outside the workplace, school, etc......but like girls, it's a numbers game, if you're here long enough, eventually you'll meet some rad people that aren't socially retarded and even if they don't speak engrish or have much experience abroad, nationality and/or language doesn't make much of a difference.

[legion]

Kind of weird we split the world into gaijin and locals, if you think about it you probably know Iranians, Pakistanis, Brazilians, Kiwis, Ozzies, Yanks, Canadians, Koreans, Mongolians, Frogs, Krauts, Italians, Brits, Paddies, Spanish, and a few Japanese. Over the years I've had buddies from all over the place, some are still here, some are dead, some left, some moved elsewhere in Japan. Never really sliced and diced them according to nationality, more according to are they drinking buddies or not. I even like some of the guys I work with tho' I do try to keep work and social life apart.

That last bit might be the issue, I think we tend not to hang out with people from work too much cos the conversation can be kind of limited.

[Coligny]

The jokes are writing themselves on this thread... one word for pimp to house(pet/husband)

It's not a serious expression and is generally used as a joke, dumbass. It's funny that you have so much trouble with a pidgin since they are know to be very easy languages to master.

Aww you wuz making a jokez...
Then it's ok you funny guy...
Just for info, it's considered a joke in which ken and during which season/timespan ? Because as usual, I suppose that if it's a joke north it certainly is an insult to someone's mother in the south while being a ingredient for cooking elsewhere...
And while I don't mind insulting someone's mom, fucking up a recipe by accident is downright tragic...

[wagyl]

Kind of weird we split the world into gaijin and locals, if you think about it you probably know Iranians, Pakistanis, Brazilians, Kiwis, Ozzies, Yanks, Canadians, Koreans, Mongolians, Frogs, Krauts, Italians, Brits, Paddies, Spanish, and a few Japanese. Over the years I've had buddies from all over the place, some are still here, some are dead, some left, some moved elsewhere in Japan. Never really sliced and diced them according to nationality, more according to are they drinking buddies or not. I even like some of the guys I work with tho' I do try to keep work and social life apart.

That last bit might be the issue, I think we tend not to hang out with people from work too much cos the conversation can be kind of limited.

And therein lies the rub of the issue: I think a lot of these "I can't make friends in Japan" people don't have extended social circles (which is a bit of a chicken and egg thing, I know...) If you have a few hobbies outside of work and drinking with workmates and cussing people out on the internet, you are forced into interaction with other people and every now and then you find cool people. Say, for example, you took up messing around with radio controlled models. Meet enough other enthusiasts and you will find people you want to hang out with and communicate with, and it will extend your language too. It sounds flippant to say it, but some people really need to get a life, meaning a full, rich participatory life with hobbies and interactions.

[Russell]

Just for info, it's considered a joke in which ken and during which season/timespan ? Because as usual, I suppose that if it's a joke north it certainly is an insult to someone's mother in the south while being a ingredient for cooking elsewhere...
And while I don't mind insulting someone's mom, fucking up a recipe by accident is downright tragic...

So, what's on the menu in Maison de Coligny?

Fried asshole or boiled head?

[Yokohammer]

Kind of weird we split the world into gaijin and locals, if you think about it you probably know Iranians, Pakistanis, Brazilians, Kiwis, Ozzies, Yanks, Canadians, Koreans, Mongolians, Frogs, Krauts, Italians, Brits, Paddies, Spanish, and a few Japanese. Over the years I've had buddies from all over the place, some are still here, some are dead, some left, some moved elsewhere in Japan. Never really sliced and diced them according to nationality, more according to are they drinking buddies or not. I even like some of the guys I work with tho' I do try to keep work and social life apart.

That last bit might be the issue, I think we tend not to hang out with people from work too much cos the conversation can be kind of limited.

Sort of agreed, but (winding up to ruffle a few feathers here) I really don't buy the "I don't see colour" argument. We all do. It's a hardwired survival thing. The first thing you do when you meet someone new is assess their appearance, including facial expressions, colour, and racial traits. Colour and race can disappear quickly as you get to know and trust the person, but at first your brain is frantically analysing any and all visual clues as to whether the person is a threat or not. Of course there are also people who simply slap their biased preconceived notions on people according to race/appearance and don't bother to take it any further.

Definitions of "friend" seem to vary a lot too. I can count the people I consider to be "true friends" by my definition on exactly two fingers. One is the guy I mentioned above and the other is a westerner. There are quite a few others I can hang out with and have a good time with, but I wouldn't go as far out of my way to help them out if they were in a fix. Sort of "friends lite" I guess.

Of course that doesn't include "family," which is a different category altogether.

[Samurai_Jerk]

The jokes are writing themselves on this thread... one word for pimp to house(pet/husband)

It's not a serious expression and is generally used as a joke, dumbass. It's funny that you have so much trouble with a pidgin since they are know to be very easy languages to master.

Aww you wuz making a jokez...
Then it's ok you funny guy...
Just for info, it's considered a joke in which ken and during which season/timespan ? Because as usual, I suppose that if it's a joke north it certainly is an insult to someone's mother in the south while being a ingredient for cooking elsewhere...
And while I don't mind insulting someone's mom, fucking up a recipe by accident is downright tragic...

I wasn't making a joke, dumbass. I was putting it in terms Takechan would easily understand.