Japan invites tourists -- but there may be no room at the inn for foreigners

[Typhoon]

CNNGo - Robert Michael Poole: Japan invites tourists -- but there may be no room at the inn for foreigners

Quotes Debito Arudou as a source.

Had a look at the Toyoko Inn site:

Toyoko Inn Sapporo Susukino Minami

* Chinese speaking staff available
* CCTV(China Central Television) available

No restriction on non-Chinese reservations.

Newbie.

[Yokohammer]

And, in the Hotel Information section:

Please be aware Toyoko Inn requires that foreign nationals allow their passport information to be photocopied.

No mention of foreign nationals who reside in Japan.

[Tobacco Taro]

Wow ! Great bit or reporting, CNN guy :
"a government survey in 2008 found 27% of hotels did not want any Japanese staying with them".

What a scoop !

I'm looking forward to his hilarious article on square watermelons, and how Japan is a unique blend of the traditional and modern.

I see that Debito still thinks that he's Rosa fucking Parks..

[Yokohammer]

By the way, the Debito article that the reporter most likely got his information from is ... here ...

EDIT: Oops ... he links to it in the article. Ah well, now y'all have two links.

[Typhoon]

Posted a comment to the CNNGo article, but it's being held for "moderation".

Doubt that it will show up.

[bolt_krank]

How much would you get paid to write a piece of rubbish like that ?
I think I could churn out something similar in the toilet.... maybe I'm in the wrong industry.

[Typhoon]

[Typhoon]

Posted a comment to the CNNGo article, but it's being held for "moderation".

Doubt that it will show up.

I stand corrected. CNNGo did post the comment.

[Kagetsu]

I read that article, and it seems he had a chip on his shoulder... but honestly, I can't disagree with everything he said.

I too have been the subject of two hotel cancelations or 'apparent' non bookings upon arriving at the hotel throughout japan. Naturally they dismiss the paper copies of the receipts (showing they'd been clearly printed from their own website in original Japanese) as being fraudulent. T_T (well one did anyway, part of the JR hotel chain).
In these situations, Toyoko Inn has been my life line. Honestly, I've not stayed at one I haven't at least felt comfortable in... maybe one of the Kyoto ones was a little bit 'oh, a foreigner' syndrome, but otherwise it was fine... I mean, what do you expect for 6,000 yen a night?

EDIT: Also noted some of the online booking services... Almost all the booking services in Japan (at least last time I was heading over there) had broken links to hotel websites.
For a country in the top visited places, you'd think they'd have made it a little easier for foreigners, especially when they're dealing with them all the time.

[Greji]

And, in the Hotel Information section:


No mention of foreign nationals who reside in Japan.

I actually set up a requirement in a previous section where we entertained many foreign guests, that for Japanese Inns, the staff would contact the Inn before hand and make sure they would allow foreign guests. The staff being all J-people, thought I was bonkers, TIJ with four seasons and all. This lasted until they ran into the first place that said "no thank you" and they had to change and re-work the itinerary. That happened three times in total, once for a place in Hakkone (of all places!), once in Fukushima at an onsen and another at an off the tourist roadway joint.

As for myself, I've not been carded or "passported" at any place, probably because the company makes my reservations in advance and they are set before I arrive. But, I have heard from other people that have. However, having said that, hotels in many countries (not all) will ask for a passport (for identification), so I can't get a stiffy over this like Debito, but copying the passport, does sound a bit strange, if for nothing more than an encroachment on privacy.

[Typhoon]

I read that article, and it seems he had a chip on his shoulder... but honestly, I can't disagree with everything he said.

I too have been the subject of two hotel cancelations or 'apparent' non bookings upon arriving at the hotel throughout japan. Naturally they dismiss the paper copies of the receipts (showing they'd been clearly printed from their own website in original Japanese) as being fraudulent. T_T (well one did anyway, part of the JR hotel chain).

Interesting. Do you think this was due to simple incompetence or actual discrimination?

In these situations, Toyoko Inn has been my life line. Honestly, I've not stayed at one I haven't at least felt comfortable in... maybe one of the Kyoto ones was a little bit 'oh, a foreigner' syndrome, but otherwise it was fine... I mean, what do you expect for 6,000 yen a night?

I like the convenience of Toyoko Inn as their are always withing walking distance of a train station. Also, they are like the McDonalds of hotels - no surprises - you always know what you're going to get.

Two other reasonable business hotels chains are Hotel MyTrip and R&B Hotel.

Surprised by your Kyoto experience as I think lots of foreign tourist stay at the Toyoko Inn there.

EDIT: Also noted some of the online booking services... Almost all the booking services in Japan (at least last time I was heading over there) had broken links to hotel websites.

I'd say that they've improved over the years. Have you used the Rakuten
site:

http://www.mytrip.net/en/

or the KNT site:

http://japantraveleronline.com/

Asian Rooms is another site I've used:

http://www.asiarooms.com

For a country in the top visited places, you'd think they'd have made it a little easier for foreigners, especially when they're dealing with them all the time.

Well, I remember the official government site once required one to register just to book a hotel . . . don't think that's the case anymore.

The biggest inconvenience when I first arrived was getting cash from an ATM until I learned about Japan Post. Now I can do the same at a convenience store.

[Typhoon]

I stand corrected. CNNGo did post the comment.

And have now removed it.

[Yokohammer]

As for myself, I've not been carded or "passported" at any place, probably because the company makes my reservations in advance and they are set before I arrive. But, I have heard from other people that have. However, having said that, hotels in many countries (not all) will ask for a passport (for identification), so I can't get a stiffy over this like Debito, but copying the passport, does sound a bit strange, if for nothing more than an encroachment on privacy.

Smart move checking with the inns in advance for foreign guests. Trouble at check-in could leave a nasty taste.

It seems that the only places that actually do the passport/gaijin card routine are the cheaper business hotel type places. I can't remember being "carded" at any of the mid-to-high-end hotels like the Okura chain or the Dai-ichi in Shimbashi, etc. The last time I can remember was at one of those Super Hotel places in Kyoto. They wanted a copy of my gaijin card, but I was tired from traveling and not in the best of moods so I told them to fuck off. They let me in anyway. (I told them to fuck off nicely).

The real problem here is how arbitrary it is. If it was a legal requirement for all foreign guests, all hotels would have to do it regardless of class or price. But they don't. The problem is probably that the hotels couldn't be arsed making the differentiation between tourists, who I believe are actually required by law to provide passport ID, and residents, who aren't. They've just made a "corporate decision" to card all foreigners just in case. And that is annoying.

[sublight]

That's odd, I've stayed at a bunch of business hotels all around Kanto, either for work or personal stuff, and I've never had a problem (it's also been years since anyone at the front desk has asked for my ID).

I also have to laugh since I live near the old San'ya neighborhood, where all the old flophouses that catered to day laborers have turned themselves into youth hostels and are falling over themselves trying to pull in foreign guests.

[Yokohammer]

That's odd, I've stayed at a bunch of business hotels all around Kanto, either for work or personal stuff, and I've never had a problem (it's also been years since anyone at the front desk has asked for my ID).

That's what I mean about it being arbitrary.

I can tell you the name of another place that will ask to copy your gaijin card: the Camelot hotel near the nishi-guchi of Yokohama station. I know because an American friend of mine who's permanent address is in Tokyo was carded there while I watched.

EDIT: For the sake of semi-accuracy, this was about 2~3 years ago.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I was once turned down by a business hotel in Osaka. I was with a cute Asian-American girl who I'm sure the guy behind the desk assumed was Japanese and I got the feeling that he didn't want me to violate one their women. The worst part is we were just trying to book a room with two beds to sleep (In other words, there was no way in hell she would have fucked me).

First the guy told me there were no rooms with two beds. So I asked her if she minded sharing, she said she didn't, so I asked for a room with one bed. He said they didn't have any rooms at all. The most annoying part that there was a electronic sign advertising vacant single and double rooms in Japanese but at the time my spoken Japanese wasn't good enough to argue the point.

I should have just fucking punched him.

[Iraira]

No love hotel has ever asked for my ID or passport.

[Greji]

I should have just fucking punched him.

Now we're getting down to the proper method of problem solving!

[Yokohammer]

I should have just fucking punched him.

Ha!! Love it!
Can't tell you how many times I've wished, with hindsight, I'd thought of that at the time.

"Just fucking punch him" ... gotta remember that ...

[Yokohammer]

No love hotel has ever asked for my ID or passport.

This is actually a very good point.
They don't ask you to write down your name and address, or sign anything either. Even if you stay the night. So how does that fit in with the letter of the law?

[omae mona]

I looked at the CNNgo article a few hours ago, and upon returning to it now for a 2nd peek, I noticed it has been highly edited. Unfortunately I did not keep a copy so I can't remember exactly what it originally said, but I noticed at a minimum:

• The original referred to the Debito op-ed piece as "A report in the Japan Times". Now at least they call it a column.
• The original used different language that made it sound like most hotels bar foreigners. Now it has been toned down to say many "make false excuses to avoid foreigners".

Amusing. I wonder what led to the changes.

If by "many" he means the list that Debito has put together, then yes, perhaps a few hundredths of one percent of hotels have an issue. Good god, why can't these supposedly professional news organizations actually manage to do any research or reporting of their own and publish something objective?

[Mulboyne]

This is actually a very good point.
They don't ask you to write down your name and address, or sign anything either. Even if you stay the night. So how does that fit in with the letter of the law?

Love Hotels are covered by the Entertainment Business (Fuzoku Eigyo) Law. If they required establishments covered by that law to take names of foreigners staying overnight then there are quite a few bars where I'd have to start showing my passport.

Debito definitely has a point here about inconsistency. We have a thread from 2008 where there was discussion about how some hotels were breaking the law by not asking for passports details of foreign guests. On that issue, the law gives no guidance to staff about how they are supposed to determine whether a guest is a tourist rather than a Japanese national or foreign resident.

The problem he raised in his Japan Times column is more significant because the law is quite specific. In theory, hotels have very little leeway to refuse foreign guests although a determined clerk can always find a way as others have described above. What a hotel certainly can't do is advertise the fact it won't accept foreign guests.

Credit to the man for identifying the problem but, as with so many other cases, the way he addresses it is half-arsed to say the least. If I'd taken the time to make a complaint to the Fukushima Prefectural Tourist Association , I don't think I'd have waited over two years to see if anyone had acted on it. Similarly, he identifies the law in question and the Ministry in charge but hasn't contacted them with his complaint.

That seems strange because it's the Ministry which highlighted the problem itself in the 2008 survey he quotes. They did so because they wanted to show the difficulties facing the Tourism Agency which started operating later that year. And that's the key point: since October 2008, the Ministry has a designated Agency to deal with these problems and one which invites people to tell them of issues like this. I've seen people draw Debito's attention to that fact on his site. His not unreasonable response was to invite people to do that themselves.

Well, it's a reasonable response if you are not planning on continuing to raise the problem or to write a piece dedicated to the matter in the Japan Times. Since he has gone on to do both it seems increasingly capricious that he hasn't contacted them, at the very least to get a comment for the sake of journalism, if not activism. It would be a bigger story if you got someone from the Agency to say they would look into it and then didn't, or if they said they couldn't do anything about it.

I wonder what percentage of hotel bookings are now made via the web. I doubt if it is yet the majority but I would suspect the ratio is rising fast, especially for casual visitors rather than regular or corporate guests. It will become harder for hotels to discriminate if reservations are made online. Or rather, it will become clearer if they are attempting to discriminate by announcing "no foreigners" on their sites or other means. I suspect that's exactly the kind of information the Tourism Agency would like to hear.

[Ganma]

Toyoko Inn

This is the only hotel that has ever attempted to card me. They soon back down if you start to talk legalities though. I wouldn't go there again.

Originally Posted by Yokohammer
They've just made a "corporate decision" to card all foreigners just in case. And that is annoying.

Apparently things have changed recently and hotels have been given the correct version of the law by the NPA - only to get details of those with no address in Japan. Whether all hotels will comply or not is another story.
2 options
1. don't use such hotels
2. publicly humiliate them with international news coverage!

[Typhoon]

Can't get too worked up about being asked for my passport as ID or having it photocopied.

On the other hand, having to surrender my passport [going by memory], in a few other countries many decades ago, was an issue.

[xenomorph42]

Can't get too worked up about being asked for my passport as ID or having it photocopied.

On the other hand, having to surrender my passport [going by memory], in a few other countries many decades ago, was an issue.

I never had a problem with being carded for anything except when I was applying for credit at Best or Yodobashi camera etc.
I wouldn't get too worked up over it. You always have the right to take your business elsewhere.
Having said that. One can take what Debito says with a grain of salt. I don't necessarily think that that he's a bad guy, misguided egocentric and stubborn would be a more appropriate description.
He is quite informative on many issues (gotta give him a little bit of credit) but he is most definitely a far-lefist loon his biggest idol is Michael Moore (that should tell you something right there) on his blog http://www.debito.org he can be extremely difficult and often doesn't like to hear or listen to opposing views or constructive criticism (just like the guys at Japan Probe, same deal) in his worldview he is ALWAYS right and everyone else is wrong. Again, his motives and overall intentions may be from the heart, but his actions and far-left opinionated thought process is way out there and doesn't always offer the best solution to approaching many of Japanese problems.

[Cyka UchuuJin]

i wish they'd just come right out and say we are all considered terrorists and therefore require photocopies of passports to monitor movements.

and then SJ's response would be the politically correct one.

[tidbits]

[Kagetsu]

Interesting. Do you think this was due to simple incompetence or actual discrimination?

Honestly I don't know. Most people here have a good handle on the differences between stereotyped & real Japanese mentality... At least the impression of it we get. I'd personally say both played a part. My Japanese is okay, certainly enough to get me by, and use day to day... don't ask me to get into political debates though. ^_~ Even so, after talking to them in what I consider pretty straight forward Japanese they continued to try and confuse me which wasn't nice.

Asia rooms was very good, unfortunately it was also plagued with the same problems (though was significantly better then others back then). This was a long time ago, and will be using them again.

Actually the only repeat hotel outside Toyoko is the ANA hotel in Wakkanai (I love that place) where I stay.

[Mock Cockpit]

What gives those arrogant cunts the right to see your gaijin card? They can get fucked. If you wanna see mine you better be wearing a coppers uniform, even then they get my driver's license first. The pricks at Orico tried it on a while back when we had the solar panels put on the roof. "We need to see your gaijin-card" they said, "like fuck" I said, "you can see my driver's license like every other cunt or you can check your fucking records and can see I already have one of your poxy credit cards and btw you're breaking the law too you stupid cunts"......not sure how I'd have gone about translating it all into Japanese but the missus passed on my sentiments and no more was heard of it. Loan came through the next day.

[FG Lurker]

Orico tried it on a while back when we had the solar panels put on the roof. "We need to see your gaijin-card" they said

If you're asking for a loan they will want to see your visa status. (ie Here legally? Have PR? If no PR, how long remaining on your current visa?) I don't see a money lender wanting to know that sort of information as being unreasonable.