At what point?

[sublight]

Since you're working at an international school rather than the corner eikaiwa, I'll assume you have actual qualifications and certifications. That's key. The main reason why 'stay or go' is such an important decision for the eikaiwas is that it's a cotton-candy job: it fills up your time and wallet, but doesn't do jack shit to improve your resume. Keep doing it more than a few years and you can easily find yourself stuck with a 23-year-old's CV when you're 35. By working in a field with objective standards that will be recognized in other countries, as you are, you'll have a lot more freedom to stay or go whenever you feel. The important thing is to keep your certifications current and work on new ones whenever possible, and to try and stay as connected as you can with the international school community (going to seminars & conventions, writing for peer-reviewed publications etc.).

Personally, I took a third option after about 2 years, as I found I did like Japan (and Japanese women): staying in Japan, but getting out of eikaiwa and into a career with actual room to progress.

[Coligny]

Sometimes the resurrection of a thread has value. I am not sure if this is one of those occasions.

A zombie icon would be cool though.

Yes, for events that have a really long frequency wave.... the yearly penis festival, BestKorea nukular missile test, Greji's prostate exams...

Here... not so much, while the topic itself can come again and again, unless it's an update from the original poster, no point from reviving it...

[Dreamy_Peach]

It really comes on in waves for me. Right now I'm at the peak of the wave. I shouldn't really complain - I am earning more than I need, have good career opportunities in Japan etc, but I just can't stand going outside in Tokyo: way too crowded, no greenery, oblivious people. I wake up irritated by the thought of it and see it as some kind of concrete prison where all I do is work and go home. In between is some kind of nothingness.

I guess this is the time when you realise you need to really make a decision and do something. I've started looking at property back in London (I realised that I really miss the city, the sociability, parks, and at least want some kind of base there so I can stay for long summer holiday's and christmas); pretty much all of my assets are now shifted out of Japan (Thanks Mr Abe - I never thought I would be able to offload those Japanese stocks I bought years ago at a profit), and have started looking around for jobs elsewhere. It seems very difficult from so far.

I know that I'm the type of person where something will piss me off wherever I am. It seems that the balance really has tipped recently however.

At least over the next one or two years I want out for sure.

[wagyl]

I can understand that feeling when Tokyo stops being somewhere to live, and ends up being somewhere to exist, or worse, endure. If you are prepared to make some compromises, there are nicer, more human, greener parts of Tokyo to choose to live.

For me, Tokyo had stopped thrilling me but I didn't want that to be a reason to abandon Japan. Going home would mean having to build a career again anyway, so I made a shift within Japan. That wasn't easy either, but I am happy with my choice. Tokyo is not really representative of Japan. Unfortunately, the career opportunities in Tokyo are not representative of those in the rest of Japan either

[Yokohammer]

I can understand that feeling when Tokyo stops being somewhere to live, and ends up being somewhere to exist, or worse, endure. If you are prepared to make some compromises, there are nicer, more human, greener parts of Tokyo to choose to live.

For me, Tokyo had stopped thrilling me but I didn't want that to be a reason to abandon Japan. Going home would mean having to build a career again anyway, so I made a shift within Japan. That wasn't easy either, but I am happy with my choice. Tokyo is not really representative of Japan. Unfortunately, the career opportunities in Tokyo are not representative of those in the rest of Japan either

Couldn't agree more.

Quality of life increases dramatically as you move away from Tokyo, in inverse proportion to the availability of attractive career opportunities.

If you already have a business you can run effectively without being in Tokyo it's easy, but if you have a commute ... you also have a dilemma.

[matsuki]

What those too are saying...I'm "escaping" Tokyo in the next few months as well and while it wasn't exactly my first choice, I'm looking forward to it.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Quality of life increases dramatically as you move away from Tokyo.

Yeah, downtown Nagoya and Osaka are really beautiful compared to Western Tokyo and Kanagawa.

[Yokohammer]

Quality of life increases dramatically as you move away from Tokyo.

Yeah, downtown Nagoya and Osaka are really beautiful compared to Western Tokyo and Kanagawa.

I think you understood what I meant, but just in case you really did miss the point I'll append some more detail to that sentence:

Quality of life increases dramatically as you move away from Tokyo (or any of the other overpopulated, high-stress, concrete-coated, dirty, kiss-your-ass-goodbye-in-a-major-disaster metropolitan shit holes on the Japanese archipelago).

Did I miss anything?

[Samurai_Jerk]

Quality of life increases dramatically as you move away from Tokyo.

Yeah, downtown Nagoya and Osaka are really beautiful compared to Western Tokyo and Kanagawa.

I think you understood what I meant, but just in case you really did miss the point I'll append some more detail to that sentence:

Quality of life increases dramatically as you move away from Tokyo (or any of the other overpopulated, high-stress, concrete-coated, dirty, kiss-your-ass-goodbye-in-a-major-disaster metropolitan shit holes on the Japanese archipelago).

Did I miss anything?

I'm sure people in other cities in Japan would love to be lumped in with Tokyo. Haven't you lived here something like 40+ years? Thought you would have learned the difference by now.

Anyway, I don't agree at all. Rural Japan is boring as hell and still pretty fucking ugly overall. The housing is just as shitty if not worse and the towns are generally decaying dumps full of toothless old people and surrounded by toxic rice paddies.

Quality of life mean easy access to nightlife, pussy, and a variety of good restaurants in my book.

[Yokohammer]

Quality of life mean easy access to nightlife, pussy, and a variety of good restaurants in my book.

Ah ... well in that case you're pretty much in paradise.

I just got really tired of that scene. I used to love Tokyo, back before it became the armpit that it is now. But that's decades ago. It was a relief to move down to Yokohama from Tokyo back in around '86, but Yokohama has grown relentlessly towards becoming a sideshow to Tokyo ever since, and now even that town stresses me out. There's an age issue too ... the ol' body and brain prefer a bit of peace and quiet. I think I work better out here too.

But the country isn't even close to boring (as long as you're not in a really isolated hamlet somewhere). Where I am it's a 30-minute train ride into a city of more than a million people, but I rarely make the trip because pretty much everything I need is available locally. There are exceptions ... the occasional concert/show or restaurant ... but other than that and business trips I tend to stay put.

Of course my criteria are a little different to yours. To each his own, as they say.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Having spent the majority of my life in big cities, I've always loved the way people who live in small towns or the country feel it's OK to tell you how horrible the city you live in is and how they could never imagine living in such a dirty, crowded, stressful, dangerous, etc. place.

[matsuki]

Having spent the majority of my life in big cities, I've always loved the way people who live in small towns or the country feel it's OK to tell you how horrible the city you live in is and how they could never imagine living in such a dirty, crowded, stressful, dangerous, etc. place.

SJ, would you really want to raise a family here?

[Coligny]

Tokyo and Nagoya feels like being in the bottom of a hobo wet dirty underwear... In the case of Nagoya there is even the matching smell of decaying corpse... And this coming from Paris...
Plus the hostility coming from the discomfort of homes makes the uneasy feeling a 24/7 affair...

There's days where I dream of moving to Hokkaido feeling Toyohashi too crowded... Despite a 5 minutes drive leading you to empty mountains where you wish you could hear banjos instead of being set up for a remake of Razorback...

[matsuki]

For the record, I'm not saying I hate Tokyo...just nice to live comfortably outside and be able to drive in at will.

Tokyo weekend (ok, it's China but you get the idea)

RTX1226J.jpg

Inaka weekend

[Samurai_Jerk]

Having spent the majority of my life in big cities, I've always loved the way people who live in small towns or the country feel it's OK to tell you how horrible the city you live in is and how they could never imagine living in such a dirty, crowded, stressful, dangerous, etc. place.

SJ, would you really want to raise a family here?

I have no desire to raise a family period but I grew up in NYC and loved it. And living in Tokyo doesn't mean I can't have an inaka weekend if I want to.

[Coligny]

raaahhh New York in the 70'...

394040_494586387228927_2014417348_n.jpg

305528_10151194974902149_1906814924_n.jpg

Nearly as romantic as my hometown of Verdun in 1919

vA.jpg

(i can see my house from here... bottom of the pict third crater to the right...)

[Samurai_Jerk]

raaahhh New York in the 70'...

394040_494586387228927_2014417348_n.jpg

305528_10151194974902149_1906814924_n.jpg

Nearly as romantic as my hometown of Verdun in 1919

vA.jpg

(i can see my house from here... bottom of the pict third crater to the right...)

Probably The Bronx or Brooklyn not the city.

[sublight]

Having spent the majority of my life in big cities, I've always loved the way people who live in small towns or the country feel it's OK to tell you how horrible the city you live in is and how they could never imagine living in such a dirty, crowded, stressful, dangerous, etc. place.

SJ, would you really want to raise a family here?

I dunno, I seem to be doing ok with it.

[Coligny]

Yea... But even groing up where that happened:

image.jpg

Which once you put the bones here:

image.jpg

Let some grass try to grow back in the bomb craters:

image.jpg

And clean up some buildings become more or less this:

image.jpg

Tokyo still feels a bit claustrophobic...
(Pretty sure the Indiun has the same kind of photo album so I just illustrate for my hood in Verdun)

[matsuki]

I have no desire to raise a family period but I grew up in NYC and loved it.

Well that does make sense, if I wanted to bang my way through generation Y, Z (and whatever comes after Z?) I'd probably stay in Tokyo.

As to growing up in NYC....can NYC really be compared to Tokyo?

Population Density alone paints quite a different picture: NYC: 2,050 people per square km Tokyo: 14,728 people per square km

That being said, I'm from the outskirts of LA, with a population density so insignificant, I can't even find the info readily available...so I imagine it's much less of a leap for you than it is for me to want to live permanently in Tokyo.

And living in Tokyo doesn't mean I can't have an inaka weekend if I want to.

Right...but if you're like me and spending most weekends in the inaka, it makes more sense to own a home/car outside the inflated cost bubble that surrounds Tokyo (Unless you're making mad money there....in which case, it's understandable to be tied to the city Mon~Fri) and have Tokyo weekdays/weekends when needed.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Commuting mid-distance (say 50-100 km) is a PITA in Tokyo, despite the infrastructure being in place, and made worse by companies withdrawing transport payments that used to be routine.
For a while in the 1990s I commuted to central Tokyo by bullet train from Atami, where I lived by the sea in rent half that of the capital. It was fucken glorious! Others from my company commuted from places as far away as Nagano. You'd need an expat deal now to travel those distances, but it is still tax deductible.
Rather than these distances, though, better service like Liners to places like Hachioji, Nikko, Kamakura, Kofu, Takasaki, Mito, etc. would certainly improve quality of life.

Mind you, I'm a naive, cuntry boy (I bet you never guessed). My eyes still pop out of my head when I'm surrounded by concrete and flashing neon lights. I adore the city. If I had the money and no obligation to No. 4, I would like to live in the center of the city and carouse and fuck and snort coke and guzzle booze and sometimes faust those with German proclivities and do all sorts of other fucken nuisance shenanigans until my heart just fucken popped and I keeled over. It's hard to do that in bucolic surroundings....and the sheep aren't really all that into the booze.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I have no desire to raise a family period but I grew up in NYC and loved it.

Well that does make sense, if I wanted to bang my way through generation Y, Z (and whatever comes after Z?) I'd probably stay in Tokyo.

As to growing up in NYC....can NYC really be compared to Tokyo?

Population Density alone paints quite a different picture: NYC: 2,050 people per square km Tokyo: 14,728 people per square km

That being said, I'm from the outskirts of LA, with a population density so insignificant, I can't even find the info readily available...so I imagine it's much less of a leap for you than it is for me to want to live permanently in Tokyo.

And living in Tokyo doesn't mean I can't have an inaka weekend if I want to.

Right...but if you're like me and spending most weekends in the inaka, it makes more sense to own a home/car outside the inflated cost bubble that surrounds Tokyo (Unless you're making mad money there....in which case, it's understandable to be tied to the city Mon~Fri) and have Tokyo weekdays/weekends when needed.

You're missing my point. If you prefer not to live in Tokyo, that's great. I have zero interest in going away on the weekends but I do care about things like access to nightlife, MMA (training and going to see fights), movie theaters that play independent films, and good restaurants. What I don't like is the attitude of a lot people who choose not to live in big cities. They seem to think they're making an objectively better lifestyle choice and think it's OK to talk about how horrible cities are. And the condescending question about raising kids in the city is the worst of all. What's so bad about raising kids in the city? Besides if I were to lose my mind, get married, and start having kids, I could see an advantage to raising them in Tokyo where there are more foreigners and mixed kids than in a lot of other places in Japan.

By the way, your stats for NYC population density are way off (they're probably for the NY metro area which includes CT, NJ, White Plains, etc.). Besides I grew up in downtown Manhattan.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

By the way, your stats for NYC population density are way off (they're probably for the NY metro area which includes CT, NJ, White Plains, etc.). Besides I grew up in downtown Manhattan.

I always thought density was less prevalent in NYC than it is in the rest of Untied States.

[yanpa]

I have no desire to raise a family period but I grew up in NYC and loved it.

Well that does make sense, if I wanted to bang my way through generation Y, Z (and whatever comes after Z?) I'd probably stay in Tokyo.

As to growing up in NYC....can NYC really be compared to Tokyo?

Population Density alone paints quite a different picture: NYC: 2,050 people per square km Tokyo: 14,728 people per square km

That being said, I'm from the outskirts of LA, with a population density so insignificant, I can't even find the info readily available...so I imagine it's much less of a leap for you than it is for me to want to live permanently in Tokyo.

And living in Tokyo doesn't mean I can't have an inaka weekend if I want to.

Right...but if you're like me and spending most weekends in the inaka, it makes more sense to own a home/car outside the inflated cost bubble that surrounds Tokyo (Unless you're making mad money there....in which case, it's understandable to be tied to the city Mon~Fri) and have Tokyo weekdays/weekends when needed.

You're missing my point. If you prefer not to live in Tokyo, that's great. I have zero interest in going away on the weekends but I do care about things like access to nightlife, MMA (training and going to see fights), movie theaters that play independent films, and good restaurants. What I don't like is the attitude of a lot people who choose not to live in big cities. They seem to think they're making an objectively better lifestyle choice and think it's OK to talk about how horrible cities are. And the condescending question about raising kids in the city is the worst of all. What's so bad about raising kids in the city? Besides if I were to lose my mind, get married, and start having kids, I could see an advantage to raising them in Tokyo where there are more foreigners and mixed kids than in a lot of other places in Japan.

By the way, your stats for NYC population density are way off (they're probably for the NY metro area which includes CT, NJ, White Plains, etc.). Besides I grew up in downtown Manhattan.

Whackypedia says "27,550/sq mi (10,640/km2)" for NYC.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Whackypedia says "27,550/sq mi (10,640/km2)" for NYC.

And " Manhattan's population density is 66,940 people per square mile (25,846/km²)"

[matsuki]

You're missing my point. If you prefer not to live in Tokyo, that's great. I have zero interest in going away on the weekends but I do care about things like access to nightlife, MMA (training and going to see fights), movie theaters that play independent films, and good restaurants. What I don't like is the attitude of a lot people who choose not to live in big cities. They seem to think they're making an objectively better lifestyle choice and think it's OK to talk about how horrible cities are.

Point taken...objectively, no...one's lifestyle choice and what's better for them is ultimately personal.

And the condescending question about raising kids in the city is the worst of all. What's so bad about raising kids in the city? Besides if I were to lose my mind, get married, and start having kids, I could see an advantage to raising them in Tokyo where there are more foreigners and mixed kids than in a lot of other places in Japan.

Ehh, condescending?? If anything, I'm totally in support of people who don't want marriage/kids so if that came across wrong, apologies. Are you really sure there are more foreigners and mixed kids in Tokyo? If you mean white foreigners and mixed with white kids I would agree but I've met waaaay more "less visible" foreigners from the Kansai region and way more mixed people from the cuntryside. (seems to be a trend with J-cuntry bumpkins marrying Chinese/flip women) Anyhow, my point with the kids is stuff like sports, camping, and just basically playing outside is much easier/cheaper to do while living outside a major city. Not impossible to do based in the city but the costs involved increase pretty crazy.

By the way, your stats for NYC population density are way off (they're probably for the NY metro area which includes CT, NJ, White Plains, etc.). Besides I grew up in downtown Manhattan.

Definitely could be, the more I look, the more the stats vary from source to source with most not giving much description. My real gripe point is that even when I was in NYC, the times I encountered lines, they were pretty short and reasonable....nearly anything you want to do anything in Tokyo involves lines, crowds, and oh too often that one thing you want is sold out.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Are you really sure there are more foreigners and mixed kids in Tokyo? If you mean white foreigners and mixed with white kids I would agree but I've met waaaay more "less visible" foreigners from the Kansai region and way more mixed people from the cuntryside.

Which is why I said "a lot of other places" and not "every other".

My real gripe point is that even when I was in NYC, the times I encountered lines, they were pretty short and reasonable....nearly anything you want to do anything in Tokyo involves lines, crowds, and oh too often that one thing you want is sold out.

If you go to popular places in NY, it's the same and bars in Manhattan tend to be a lot more crowded because they pack as many people in as can stand shoulder to shoulder. I've been to places where I had to wait in line 15 to 20 mins to take a piss. -- My friend solved this problem by pissing in an empty pitcher under the table. Classy guy! -- I hardly ever wait in line in Tokyo because I make reservations or know where to go if I don't want to wait in line. Same as when I'm in NY.

[wangta]

What those too are saying...I'm "escaping" Tokyo in the next few months as well and while it wasn't exactly my first choice, I'm looking forward to it.

Where did you end up going? I'm not asking you to pinpoint your exact location but roughly where?

I've never been able to live in a major city during my stretches in Japan. And that's been a problem. When you live in Japan or another East Asian country, lack of social capital is going to prove detrimental to quality of life, job opportunities, finances etc in the long run. Tokyo, Osaka and Nagoya are the places I'd have chosen if I could have got the jobs there. Too much of my money in Japan went on key money because despite the empty accommodation in the non big city places, the landlords still screw you when nobody else wants the place esp as a gaijin. And too much of it went on train fares to try and have a life on weekends.

The jobs are in Tokyo, Osaka and Nagoya, the networks are there, the means to make connections are there. First time around in Japan I lived in a bigger place than the 2nd time around but it was still too limiting.

There's not enough to go around outside the big cities and there is a tendency for others to guard every bit of info jealously or sit on jobs/job info and keep passing it around a clique. Big cities have the opportunities for you to go out and do your thing. I didn't mention Fukuoka as one of the big cities unlike some people would. From what I've heard first-hand that was locked up by the gaijin there in the 90s, they are the ones who are now running businesses and have their fingers in pies from 15 plus years ago. And the swarms of fool gaijins who do the horrible eikaiwa jobs lower the conditions significantly.

[Coligny]

There's not enough to go around outside the big cities and there is a tendency for others to guard every bit of info jealously or sit on jobs/job info and keep passing it around a clique.

New to mankind but catching up kwick...

[matsuki]

What those too are saying...I'm "escaping" Tokyo in the next few months as well and while it wasn't exactly my first choice, I'm looking forward to it.

Where did you end up going? I'm not asking you to pinpoint your exact location but roughly where?

I'm still in Tokyo but I now have mountain property facing Best Korea. With any luck, I'll have a vacation property built on it within the next year or so.