Protesting Japan's Hypocrisy at the Megumi Yokota LA Premiere

[AssKissinger]

Make sure you get residency at least.

I doubt I'll ever be able to achieve permanent residency. Doesn't that require really strong J-skills?

[ekalmus]

I doubt I'll ever be able to achieve permanent residency. Doesn't that require really strong J-skills?

I think you are mistaken. Marriage is the key. Please take a look at Debito's Web site for more info...

http://www.debito.org/permres.html

It depends on the amount of time you have been married.

Best Regards;

Eric

[AssKissinger]

Nice link. Thank you.

[CrankyBastard]

I've just finished reading all the threads about permanent resident status here.
I had no idea it was such hassle.
I was 'granted' PR status before I got married to my wife who happens to be Japanese (I dislike the term 'J-wife')
The company I was working for in the late 1960's decided it would make things easier if I had permanent resident status and got it done in a matter of a couple of weeks.
I don't know now whether I should feel grateful to them or whether I should sue them.

[jwatcher0914]

That's rough. So having a child who's living in Japan doesn't qualify you? I've been able to keep getting new visas to Japan so easily that surprises me.

Unless you have legal custody of a Japanese child, being a parent of a Japanese child does not help you get a visa to stay in Japan, EVEN IF YOU HAVE VISITATION RIGHTS! There is no "parent of Japanese child" or anything like it visa. In fact, when you combine this with the whole lot of problems with family law, all kinds of horrible situations become possible. One of the most severe is that a foreign parent cannot report spouse or child abuse, because they can so easily lose the right to stay in Japan.

Ive linked some of the above text to pages with more details and here are a few more pages related to bad family law and visas. (Apologies that some are apparently under construction, but there is still a lot of good info on them.)

Petition Campaign to Amend Immigration Rules Concerning Granting of Residency/Permanent Visa for Foreign Parents of Japanese Children: Some Questions and Answers

Visas in Japan: Extending a Visa While in Family Court, Custodial Parent of Japanese Child, Spouse Visa, Self Sponsored Visa, Permanent Residency, Adopted Children.

[Buraku]

you better treat the problem of Japanese abducted by General Kimchi more carefully,
because this problem is very very very sensitive and controversy problem in country of Chrysanthemum.
otherwise you will pay for it some day.

Japan ain't gonna change its ways

[ekalmus]

Japan ain't gonna change its ways

It is sad that you say that. I personally think you are not giving enough credit to the Japanese people. Once they find out that this issue exists they will make changes. The Japanese people are good people.

[drpepper]

It is sad that you say that. I personally think you are not giving enough credit to the Japanese people. Once they find out that this issue exists they will make changes. The Japanese people are good people.

Wow, now there is a quote based on ignorance if I ever saw one...how many times does one have to get hit over the head??

You seem to have some experience with a few Japanese ladies but really don't really know the people.. perhaps that makes it all the harder to get things done. Are any of these stranded parents even remotely fluent in Japanese or have lived in Japan for better than 10 years??

[ekalmus]

Wow, now there is a quote based on ignorance if I ever saw one...how many times does one have to get hit over the head??

You seem to have some experience with a few Japanese ladies but really don't really know the people.. perhaps that makes it all the harder to get things done. Are any of these stranded parents even remotely fluent in Japanese or have lived in Japan for better than 10 years??

Excuse me? I am fluent in Japanese. Lived in Japan for a number of years, studied the culture in University and worked in numerous Japanese companies as well as opening a restaurant, running an ISP, and being an engineer on the TSE (all while living in Japan.) I have also produced award winning films on Japan in the US.

I hope that the rest of the worlds views are not as ignorant as your own. What gives you the right to judge any of the left behind parents?

The Japanese are victims of their culture, and government plain and simple. The average Japanese person would flourish if they were freed of that control.

Do away with the Government constraints and control and you will see a people who have hearts.

Take a look in the mirror and make sure the ignorance is not your own.

Why would you live there if you have such little respect for the people?

[Blah Pete]

Do away with the Government constraints and control and you will see a people who have hearts.

I think that you would end up with a country of lost people. Somebody has to keep them in line.

[Catoneinutica]

It is sad that you say that. I personally think you are not giving enough credit to the Japanese people. Once they find out that this issue exists they will make changes. The Japanese people are good people.

The older I get, the more I'm inclined to believe the old bromide that a people ultimately get the government they deserve. The Japanese were handed democracy on a silver platter after WWII, and have proceeded to accede control of their lives to Jiminto and the mandarins ever since.

[American Oyaji]

Excuse me? I am fluent in blah blah blah!

The Japanese people would be lost without government. The society was top down controlled for centuries. That sort of ingrained cultural obedience to authority doesn't disappear with one generation. As long as there are those in power who remember the times BEFORE WW2, it will remain.

Personally, I think the Samurai traded their armor for suits and swords for briefcases.

It's modern feudalism.

[drpepper]

Excuse me? I am fluent in Japanese. Lived in Japan for a number of years, studied the culture in University and worked in numerous Japanese companies as well as opening a restaurant, running an ISP, and being an engineer on the TSE (all while living in Japan.) I have also produced award winning films on Japan in the US.

And yet you could not, with all that get a visa??? I got friends that teach part-time English and have gotten permanent resident status. Strange with all of that you couldn't get a job where you could get a visa or self-sponsored permanent residence.

Fluent Japanese to boot too?? Wow, you are the man, how could you be sooo smart as to be fluent in Japanese and really know so little about the Japanese..

I hope that the rest of the worlds views are not as ignorant as your own. What gives you the right to judge any of the left behind parents?

The Japanese are victims of their culture, and government plain and simple. The average Japanese person would flourish if they were freed of that control.

Do away with the Government constraints and control and you will see a people who have hearts.

Take a look in the mirror and make sure the ignorance is not your own.

Why would you live there if you have such little respect for the people?

I am not judging anyone.. but as others have said here, attacking the Japanese in English and trying to 'show' or 'enlighten' them is the typical ignorant gaijin approach and usually gets you nowhere.

As for getting rid of the government and the Japanese are free??? That is the dumbest thing I have heard and makes me question how such smart guy like you, fluent in Japanese, could say something like that. The government is merely a reflection of the people themseleves, as is their cultural baggage, strip away the culture from them and they are no longer Japanese.

Respect you say?? I have plenty of repsect for them, that doesn't change who and what they are and you are deluding yourself to think otherwise.

I am not the God of gaijin here but I have been here near 17 years and know enough Japanese to get paid to translate it. I know plenty about the Japanese and yet there is plenty I do not know, but I know an idealistic fool when I see one and know that there is not one looking back at me in the mirror, I don't think you can say the same.

[jwatcher0914]

you suffer Chrysanthemum attack certainly if you campaign something like that in Japan..

you better treat the problem of Japanese abducted by General Kimchi more carefully, because this problem is very very very sensitive and controversy problem in country of Chrysanthemum. otherwise you will pay for it some day.

Wow, are these supposed to be threatening?

Now we can tell the US media about threats from Japanese rightists against parents who want to get their kidnapped children back from Japan. That will bring even MORE support for our cause from Americans!! Keep up these public threats, and the Chrysanthemum will pay for it someday.

Oh, and by the way, we have also archived a copy of all your postings here and on YouTube. The ISPs for this site and YouTube are both in the US, and Im sure our friends in Homeland Security will certainly be interested in public threats against US citizens. From someone who said, what was that.... oh yes:

I want to eat raw flesh of caucasian girl in sashimi or syabusyabu some day. hehehe

They probably already have you in their electronic databases. It should be no problem to find you based on your IP addresses.

Unlike international child abduction, Japan is very cooperative with the US when it comes to finding people like you. The next knock on your door may be someone wanting to interrogate you. Or maybe you will just disappear in immigration on your next international flight. Watch your own back Takechanpoopoo.

[jwatcher0914]

I am not judging anyone.. but as others have said here, attacking the Japanese in English and trying to 'show' or 'enlighten' them is the typical ignorant gaijin approach and usually gets you nowhere.

Hmmm...I think you overlook the power of gaiatsu a bit. It cannot solve all problems, of course. But Japan is historically very sensitive to bad foreign publicity. The most recent example I can think of is in 2004 when Japan was placed on the Tier 2 watch list of the US's Trafficking in Persons Report. This is one level below the worst, Tier 3, meaning basically that there is significant human trafficking and the government is making no efforts to stop it. Starting that year, Japan updated laws and claimed to be making enforcement improvements. Im not saying gaiatsu solved the problem completely, but it did bring the issue to the attention of Japanese citizens, did get things moving in the right direction and has resulted in at least some improvements.

So the audience for the the protest was mostly English speaking. (Although note that there were Japanese signs, and please also note that the website is slowly being translated into Japanese. As a translator, would you like to volunteer some help?)

We do have support from many Japanese on this already and there are other Japanese groups working on similar family law problems in Japan, in Japanese. There are plenty of Japanese in favor of courts being able to enforce custody orders and joint custody. Each of these are on our agenda also. All these problems are related and we coordinate with these groups. But the strength of our issues are international ones which we believe are most likely to be recognized overseas, in English, and will result in gaiatsu.

As for the "Do away with the Government constraints and control ..." comment, perhaps Eric was a little over zealous, but this is the way it is viewed by millions (perhaps billions) of Japan's Asian neighbors also. Having travelled and spoken to many of them, their dislike for Japan is tempered only when they qualify it by saying, "well, its actually the government we hate, not the individual people."

A modern government reflects part of the will of the people, but not all of it, as we see in the US on the Iraq issue. The most vocal segments are often able to initiate change that the majority would not approve, but are not big enough for them to take notice of. There is a lag time in the will of the people causing a government to change. And finally, there are elements of Japanese society, as you can see in my previous post, which find they can use threats of violence to subdue the wills of the people. For example, I know many Japanese who would also like to link the North Korea abductions to international abductions. But they have told me directly, surprisingly so for a Japanese, that they cannot because of fear of the rightists. So the rightists may be effectively blocking the will of the people on various issues.

To get back around to the "English" part, other societies do not respond like that to such threats, and these rightist tactics would backfire outside Japan. I.e. they would bring only more support to the cause. So appealing first to an English language audience makes sense. The rightists are no threat outside Japan, and when Japanese see that they will get confidence to make their views known more publicly.

Normally, I would not discuss such strategies publicly, but in this case, it doesn't matter. Rightist threats, much less actions outside Japan will only draw attention from the press outside Japan and make the issue known more widely outside Japan. So they cannot win on this, whether they know the strategy or not. If they are smart, they will understand that they have more important issues to deal with. If they are not, they will both help our cause and make their presence more widely known outside of Japan, effecting their other causes also.

As a long time resident of Japan, this should all make some sense to you drpepper. If not, I welcome comments.

[drpepper]

Jwatcher: Nice post. You make plenty of good arguments there. Working on a governmental or national level the Japanese are most certainly vunerable to gaijitsu, I was speaking on a more personal level in response to 'Eric'. I am sure that working with Japanese groups and through the 'system' in general will eventually have some effect (at least I hope so). I simply was replying to what I saw as blatently ignorant comments as to who the Japanese are and how they would/should react to 'personal' prostests etc, from 'Eric's' comments. He also was talking specifically about his situation to which I was also addressing my comments.

As for lag time for governments and the will of the people, may I ask how it is that Bush got elected again?? And with no real difficulty either? I suspect support for the Iraq conflict was most definately with the majority in the U.S. and perhaps is only now truly beginning to wane. I personally believe that the majority of Americans are idiots and our wonderful government reflects this to a tee. Lag time is there for sure, give it a few years and things will tilt to one side or another but how long has it been that Japan has let this go on? I fear it will take many years yet before the tides in Japan begin to shift as the current majority still supports Japans current policies.

Oh, and as others have mentioned in this thread I believe protesting the Megumi Yokota movie was a bad move and will hurt far more then help you in Japan. If the Yokota thing was bigger news in the U.S. then perhaps it would have helped more for getting support on the U.S. side but considering that pretty much nobody in the U.S. has heard of it I think the whole excercise was moot. I talked to several Japanese here and not a one thought the two were even remotely similar, even if I, as a gaijin, do get your point. Just think is was a bad move.

[LivingInUSA]

...may I ask how it is that Bush got elected again?? And with no real difficulty either?

Im sorry Dr., but you must have been living in a rice patty for quite some time now if you honestly believe what you wrote.

Bush 2004 election = no difficulty? What are you talking about. Again as in 2000 there was marked voter FRAUD in his election. Ohio, and New Mexico ring a bell? Do a google search and try to back up your mistaken comments.

In addition Ekalmus is attempting to right a serious wrong, and you choose to be condesending when you answer his heart felt posts. Shame on you.

This is not a game of one-upsmanship and your ability to translate Japanese has nothing to do with Parental Abduction.

Why do you need to feel as though you know more than ekalmus? Why would you make yourself out to be a know it all when it comes to the Japanese and their culture? Does it make you feel good to attack and put down someone who is fighting an uphill battle? Perhaps ekalmus is more knowledgeable in the situation he is in than you? Perhaps he has attempted to fight it the way you are suggesting and lost. Maybe you ideas are not anything new... and gee if they didnt work the first time than perhaps he has chosen to fight it another way?

You cant know what it is like to be in his shoes, can you?

You seem like an intelligent person. Perhaps you should refrain from the condesending tones in you email. In addition the sarcasm you use in this situation makes you look like nothing more than a bully.

Again - Shame on you.

Do you think Martin Luther King decided to fight the racist US government by gaining the support of the white racists attacking the african american people? No of course he didnt. He fought and gained support of the remaining population. By gaining the support of the rest of the people the majority won out and the government changed it's ways.

With all of your knowledge of the Japanese society it suprises me that you have very little knowledge of the US society. The history of introducing civil rights to societies comes through protests just like the one on the you tube video they list.

Think before you speak (or in this case type.)

Oh and one more thing... Everyone in the USA has heard of the North Korean kidnappings. Presdient Bush just described his encounter with Mrs Yokota and his sadness in his last State of the Union.

Good luck ekalmus and all the other parents out there.

You are an inspiration to us all.

[jwatcher0914]

As for lag time for governments and the will of the people, may I ask how it is that Bush got elected again??

Well, I agree that Bush had support four years ago on Iraq. Terrorists make Americans want to fight back. (Unlike Japan, Americans would not get scared when a little man burned down a mother's house and then halfheartedly stuck a knife in his belly to scare her politician son. They would first ridicule a cause that had to use terror to support itself, and then hunt down and put in prison the other little men who put him up to it.) At the risk of digressing, I also believe that people inherently realize that a stable middle east is in everyone's best interests. So Bush had a lot more support there than he and fellow ex-senators and ex-congressmen had in yesterday's election.

I fear it will take many years yet before the tides in Japan begin to shift as the current majority still supports Japans current policies.

I am not sure. You might be right. But on the other hand, there ARE Japanese pushing for change too. And the Japan bar association has been fairly supportive of some (but not all) issues in some of their reports to the United Nations on the Childrens Rights Convention. There is in fact a legal conference in early December being held to discuss changes to Japanese family law. So on the other hand, it could be that the nemawashi process has already started.

Oh, and as others have mentioned in this thread I believe protesting the Megumi Yokota movie was a bad move and will hurt far more then help you in Japan.

Well, I am in LivingInUSA and Martin Luther King's camp on this issue, so we will have to agree to disagree on this one I guess. But let me point out that in March 2004 there was a press conference at the FCCJ where Japanese and foreign fathers both compared the North Korean kidnapping to the Japanese parents' kidnapping. So not all Japanese disapprove of this idea. (BTW, thanks for your flattering analogy to MLK and your support, LivingInUSA.)

[drpepper]

Im sorry Dr., but you must have been living in a rice patty for quite some time now if you honestly believe what you wrote.

Bush 2004 election = no difficulty? What are you talking about. Again as in 2000 there was marked voter FRAUD in his election. Ohio, and New Mexico ring a bell? Do a google search and try to back up your mistaken comments.

Ignorance, paranoia and just a hint of racism, well done.

In addition Ekalmus is attempting to right a serious wrong, and you choose to be condesending when you answer his heart felt posts. Shame on you.

yes, yes, shame on me...

This is not a game of one-upsmanship and your ability to translate Japanese has nothing to do with Parental Abduction.

Why do you need to feel as though you know more than ekalmus? Why would you make yourself out to be a know it all when it comes to the Japanese and their culture? Does it make you feel good to attack and put down someone who is fighting an uphill battle? Perhaps ekalmus is more knowledgeable in the situation he is in than you? Perhaps he has attempted to fight it the way you are suggesting and lost. Maybe you ideas are not anything new... and gee if they didnt work the first time than perhaps he has chosen to fight it another way?

He brought it up, I responded. Besides I was not the one to make claims that he wasn't doing enough, that was someone else. I was merely poking giant holes to his reply of that post. Go back and look again.

You seem like an intelligent person. Perhaps you should refrain from the condesending tones in you email. In addition the sarcasm you use in this situation makes you look like nothing more than a bully.

Again - Shame on you.

yes, yes, shame on me... but take a look at the arrogance dripping from his post and you will see why I repsonded as I did. I have seen him and others like him walk about talking about something they really don't know well enough about. That was what I was responding to and not the unfortunate circumstance of child abduction, you need to be able to mark a distinction between those two things. Him, having that attitude, I honestly believe will not help his case and think he needs to re-think some things before he goes off. In a way, I am giving him advice, take it as you will.

Do you think Martin Luther King decided to fight the racist US government by gaining the support of the white racists attacking the african american people? No of course he didnt. He fought and gained support of the remaining population. By gaining the support of the rest of the people the majority won out and the government changed it's ways.

With all of your knowledge of the Japanese society it suprises me that you have very little knowledge of the US society. The history of introducing civil rights to societies comes through protests just like the one on the you tube video they list.

Apples and Oranges...

Oh and one more thing... Everyone in the USA has heard of the North Korean kidnappings. Presdient Bush just described his encounter with Mrs Yokota and his sadness in his last State of the Union.

Great, now let me say this. Go out in town to a bar somewhere, a 7-11 or whatever and ask some people about who Megumi Yokota is... then tell me I am not in touch. You are not in touch, the common American is not the one up on their politics, civil rights history, nor voter fraud either. You are the minority, not them. Get this on Geraldo or Fox news, get 60 minutes to do a piece or perhaps get Oprah to open that fat mouth of hers and then maybe you will start reaching the American public.


Yeah, Yeah, shame on me, I know..

[drpepper]

Well, I am in LivingInUSA and Martin Luther King's camp on this issue, so we will have to agree to disagree on this one I guess. But let me point out that in March 2004 there was a press conference at the FCCJ where Japanese and foreign fathers both compared the North Korean kidnapping to the Japanese parents' kidnapping. So not all Japanese disapprove of this idea. (BTW, thanks for your flattering analogy to MLK and your support, LivingInUSA.)

Compared it.. maybe possibly.. and so you call the Japanese Hypocrites? That will make them come around I am sure... Interesting that the article actually making that comparision is unsigned and not in Japanese and not (from what I saw) on the Japanese web site. The are several articles there in Japanese.. that one wasn't. It would not surprise me a bit that it was intended for non-Japanese to begin with.

But that is fine, everyone will obviously not agree on the same approach to nearly any problem. I, like others here, were simply stating what ours was on this. Good luck and I hope that change comes soon.

[jwatcher0914]

drpepper: Yes, I recently found out that the article on the fatherswebsite vanished. For some reason they have done two complete overhauls on their website since 2004, so I figure it got lost. Im bugging them to get it back.

I guess whether using the word "hypocritical" will catch "Japan's" attention or not depends on whether that page starts coming up on google searches for "japan travel" and "japan sightseeing" or not.

Change takes time. It will certainly not come soon. This is Japan. But we are patient and persistant. Someday our children and their families will reap the benefits of what we are working for now, and they will know that we never forgot them.

[ekalmus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivingInUSA
Do you think Martin Luther King decided to fight the racist US government by gaining the support of the white racists attacking the african american people? No of course he didnt. He fought and gained support of the remaining population. By gaining the support of the rest of the people the majority won out and the government changed it's ways.

With all of your knowledge of the Japanese society it suprises me that you have very little knowledge of the US society. The history of introducing civil rights to societies comes through protests just like the one on the you tube video they list.

Originally Posted by drpepper
Apples and Oranges...

We may never see eye to eye if you dont consider these the same thing.

[American Oyaji]

It's not the same thing at all ekalmus.

In the instance of racism in the United States, those who were fighting for civil rights had the benefit of citizenship. The government could not send them away.

In the case of those living in Japan, if too much trouble is caused, the government CAN and would deport them as an option.
Combine that with a follow the leader democracy.

Two completely different scenarios. Even though they are both civil rights issues, the circumstances and risks are different and thus the tactics used must be different.

[jwatcher0914]

AOyaji: Let me start by saying that the Japanese government already DOES use deportation and immigration restrictions already to prevent foreign parents from maintaining contact with their children in Japan and indeed to prevent and discourage them from fighting back in court. Yamila Castellano was denied visa extensions while she was in court claiming a forgery on the divorce application and trying to get her husband to return their child he had kidnapped from overseas. Khawar Ali Shah was sent a summons by a Japanese family court to appear for divorce/custody proceedings. But immigration officials will not let him enter the country. Others who prefer not to be identified tell of being threatened by lawyers of never being allowed into the country if they pursue their cases, or of suddenly being denied work visas after their divorce was finalized. This is part of the problem.

The world has also become more interconnected than it was in MLK's day. Now, people can continue to fight against this problem via the internet from anywhere in the world, even if they leave Japan. The situation is also a bit different, in that Japan cares how they look to the rest of the world. So publicizing the problem to the rest of the world can be effective also. Its not only a matter of convincing the populous of the host country to change as it was in MLK's time. But even then, there is support for this in Japan. Many Japanese know that its the same problem for them and for us, and that there is indeed hypocrisy when compared with the North Korean abductions. But since their abductions are domestic, it doesnt make as much sense for them to compare the issues. In our case, we are talking about two cases of international abduction. Not 100% identical by any means, so we may be talking Macintosh vs. Golden Delicious, but we are still talking apples and apples. Parents in both situations are grieving for lost children and believe that a foreign government is responsible.

[American Oyaji]

jwatch,
That does not surprise me in the least that this happens in Japan.

But this particular issue of parental abduction of children to Japan, while concerning civil rights, is a very differnt situation from the push for civil rights in the 60s where African Americans were seeking equal treatment under the law as a citizen.

[ekalmus]

It's not the same thing at all ekalmus.

In the instance of racism in the United States, those who were fighting for civil rights had the benefit of citizenship. The government could not send them away.

In the case of those living in Japan, if too much trouble is caused, the government CAN and would deport them as an option.
Combine that with a follow the leader democracy.

Two completely different scenarios. Even though they are both civil rights issues, the circumstances and risks are different and thus the tactics used must be different.

Your view misses the big picture. These are not just "civil rights issues" or anything having to do with "citizenship." These are a denial of rights - plain and simple. The racist government denied the black americans right to the same civil rights that the white americans had. Japan is denying the rights
of the children. The children have the right to have both their parents. There are a number of psychological reports regarding the detriments of being denied those rights.

There is also "Parental Abduction Syndrome" to consider. In many cases of parental abduction one parent will choose to tell the child that the parent they were taken away from was bad.. or even dead. The detriments of this absue is long lasting. (see on of the many films regarding this problem)

So as you see it is not about being a citizen or about being "sent away" - This is about seeing children as property and not as human beings.

[jwatcher0914]

Just thought I would let people here know that this website has the list of showtimes for the Megumi movie all over Japan.

If anyone here wants to distribute flyers at one of them, there is one here that was used at the protest in teh US.

[Buraku]

Going to war to get Megumi back

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/02/22/asia/AS-GEN-Japan-US-Abductees.php

Japanese kidnap victim's parents ask Cheney to keep NKorea on list of terrorist states

[Buraku]

Abe pledges to raise abduction issue at talks with Bush this week
http://www.japantoday.com/jp/news/404625

[TFG]

I think Cheney is a terrorist personally.