Some Opposition To The Idea Of Votes For Foreigners

[yabanjin]

Fuck that.You are preaching to people that pay for your fucking nenkin handouts.14 yrs paying money into your retarded nenkin system that allows me a lump sum of a fraction of three year's pay??? As usual the Yamaton have no frigging idea.My ex-wife was third generation Korean too...paying the same taxes as the Yamatons except they got no voting rights.If you Japanese got of your arses and made babies then you may not have to worry about foreigners at all..as it is your country is heading for a massive economic cockslap with or without foreign immigration.Keep working on building all those robots anyway though..at least robots don't jump off buildings or stab strangers when the going gets tough.

[xenomorph42]

Fuck that.You are preaching to people that pay for your fucking nenkin handouts.14 yrs paying money into your retarded nenkin system that allows me a lump sum of a fraction of three year's pay??? As usual the Yamaton have no frigging idea.My ex-wife was third generation Korean too...paying the same taxes as the Yamatons except they got no voting rights.If you Japanese got of your arses and made babies then you may not have to worry about foreigners at all..as it is your country is heading for a massive economic cockslap with or without foreign immigration.Keep working on building all those robots anyway though..at least robots don't jump off buildings or stab strangers when the going gets tough.

They just need to make sure that they have enough oil reserves in place to maintain their robots or that that too will fall under a massive economic Cockslap!:D

[Mulboyne]

A longer clip for more context. The confrontation starts around 1:15 secs:

[YThd]Q8b2wivPsyE[/YThd]

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

A longer clip for more context. The confrontation starts around 1:15 secs:

[YThd]Q8b2wivPsyE[/YThd]

Yokoso Japan!

[IkemenTommy]

Tommy, I really don't have the time or inclination to do research to find evidence backing up your point (which is wrong), but on the opposite side:

1) The U.S. Constitution basically says only citizens have the right to vote (and this is in matters of federal elections)

2) Here is a Wikipedia article mentioning cases where local governments in the U.S. have allowed non-citizens to vote. Note that California has no such law. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_foreigners_to_vote_in_the_United_States#California

The only evidence I see anywhere about illegal aliens voting in California come from rapid frothing-at-the-mouth right wing blogs, which mention (I assume accurately) some past cases where voting fraud was detected.

I also see messages expressing concern that illegal aliens with legal photo IDs might erroneously be allowed to vote. But there is no evidence this is actually happening, and again, it is certainly not a "right" even if this fraud is happening. It is still against the law.

If you think there is some obscure, kooky, unconstitutional law on the books in California that allows non-citizens the right to vote, which nobody else seems to know about, it's your job to come up with the evidence. Not my job to prove it does not exist.

Yes you are right, I have no problem with the legal citizens voting for whomever they please. However, I have a problem when they decide to hop the fence over and they automatically are granted with free health care, education, voting rights, and the whole package.

I guess you are OK with just tearing down the border wall and fencing and let whoever the hell (terrorists and what not) into the US, but since we are way off topic already, I will just let this one go.

[Greji]

Fuck that.You are preaching to people that pay for your fucking nenkin handouts.14 yrs paying money into your retarded nenkin system that allows me a lump sum of a fraction of three year's pay???

It's been mentioned on the board here before, that depending on your country, the nenkin can be carried over i.e. USA it can be credited to your social security account. As long as your country has an in-place agreement with Japan it can be carried over.

You only really get screwed if you take the lump sum settlement...

I'm with you on the rest of the bitches in your post.

[omae mona]

Yes you are right, I have no problem with the legal citizens voting for whomever they please. However, I have a problem when they decide to hop the fence over and they automatically are granted with free health care, education, voting rights, and the whole package.

That would make me hoppin' mad too if it were actually happening. But it is not. My point is that no illegal aliens are getting voting rights. You made that part up. As for health care and education, I think I have read that they do receive these services, and I am not so sure I would be happy about that if I were a California taxpayer.

I guess you are OK with just tearing down the border wall and fencing and let whoever the hell (terrorists and what not) into the US

Yes, I love it when criminals use up my tax dollars and/or try to kill me. You got me figured out pretty good.

[BO-SENSEI]

I am pretty sure the people at the JOC would love this making international news, it wouldn't, but imagine the international shitstorm that would ensue if it did, pretty much kiss the 2016 bid goodbye.

[nottu]

[BO-SENSEI]

For all the reasons that the Olympic committee to pass over Tokyo for another city, I just don't think it would be a good idea for right-wing nuts to be holding a protest against the voting rights of foreign residents, its pretty much saying we want the world to come to Japan for the Olympic games, but you would have no rights if you lived here. Japan already has numerous things that have upset international communities, from women's equality to dolphin killings, child abductions to historical revisionism, I just don't think that Japan could afford one more thing to piss of the international community.

[nottu]

[dimwit]

It seems these J-conservatives are about "no right to vote" not "no rights".

I wouldn't call these guys (and with the exception of the shrill speaker lady, they are all guys) conservatives. They are "no rights" uyoku.

I get the feeling that lots of people, including quite a few on this board don't really get the issue. It is not about voting in national or even prefectural elections, it has to do with voting in local municipal elections. The choices that the city make in terms of placement of a bypass or garbage incinerator or even the height allowance of building in my my neighborhood affect me as both a tax payer and a landowner. While I may a citizen of Japan, I am certainly a citizen of Matsuyama.

[nottu]

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

I tend to agree with a lot of what nottu is saying above...I've never heard of a country where there isn't at least something going on that would irk the "international community" in some way. And revisionism? Glass houses, my friend.
There's nothing wrong with what the protesters are saying. Indeed, considering many municipalities across Japan gave preferential tax/benefit treatment to the Zainichi for many years, their gripe is quite legitimate.
Though few countries allow non-citizens any sort of voting rights, I think the issue is not quite so black-and-white here because you're essentially dealing with people who can trace their roots here back through multiple generations, know no other homeland than Japan, were (or whose ancestors were) one-time Japanese citizens and yet have no say in the running of the country. I say the easiest way to solve this problem in the best way for all parties involved is permit permanent dual citizenship for the "special permanent residents." If the Zainichi choose not to take both nationalities, then they forfeit the right to vote.
For non-Zainichi, it's simple. Want to vote? Naturalize. Gaining citizenship in Japan is not that difficult. If you don't naturalize when the option is available, you're also giving up the right to vote, taxpayer or not. That's the way it works in most of the world, why shouldn't Japan be allowed to do the same?
Anyway, that's my two-bob's worth...except, the bullyboy tactics against the sole, silent dissenter utterly reeked of thuggery. Still, I think the overt hostility toward foreigners and anger within these demonstrators probably makes them the most honest Japanese I've seen in decades of living here. I think most people here probably share the beliefs of these people, but haven't got the guts to be honest enough to show it overtly because the last time they did that, they got pummeled. It's easier to get by in Japan as a cowed cur and most people take up that option.
By the way dimwit, it's funny you said they were all guys. A friend and I watching the video the other day remarked to each other about how amazing it was that so many women were taking part!!!

[FG Lurker]

My ex-wife was third generation Korean too...paying the same taxes as the Yamatons except they got no voting rights.

Zainichi Koreans can become Japanese citizens very easily, much more easily than anyone else. If your ex-wife wants to vote then she needs to give up the zainichi-dole and become a Japanese citizen. Alternatively she could move back to Korea where she is free to vote all she likes... Heh, unless she's a NK commie in which case I guess she's fucked.

[BO-SENSEI]

It Next time you go back take a visit to your local slaughther house. You'll have to travel far - its not the kind of thing most people want too close. Put a few of those killing fields together and you have something on par with the dolphin killing. Put them all together and the dolphin thing is dwarfed.

Yeah, but no one has made a documentary on killing cows that gained international attention. Plus, steak is delicious and I have never seen a cow do flips.

Historical revision a Japanese thing - that's funny.

Its not lilke I am on the Olympic committee, voting for where the 2016 Olympics take place, I got no problem with stuff like this. The governor of Tokyo wants to believe that Nanking wasn't as bad at the Chinese believe, go ahead. But that might not appeal to the voters.

While you might be thinking that China has far more problems than Japan does as far as international issues are concerned. The rest of the world did not want to upset China by denying them the 2008 summer olympics, while no one is really that concerned about upsetting Japan.

[Greji]

Yeah, but no one has made a documentary on killing cows that gained international attention. Plus, steak is delicious and I have never seen a cow do flips.

Hey, whale don't taste that bad and look where that has gone. "Save the cows. Limit wagyu to research hunting". Sounds like a real deal. The protesters could even throw in that human touch, which is something they can't do with Flipper and Moby Dick.
I quote wiki on the genome of cattle:

".....The scientists found that cattle have approximately 22,000 genes, and 80 percent of their genes are shared with humans, and they have approximately 1,000 genes they share with dogs and rodents but are not found in humans....."

[Mike Oxlong]

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[IkemenTommy]

Zainichi Koreans can become Japanese citizens very easily, much more easily than anyone else. If your ex-wife wants to vote then she needs to give up the zainichi-dole and become a Japanese citizen. Alternatively she could move back to Korea where she is free to vote all she likes... Heh, unless she's a NK commie in which case I guess she's fucked.

Takechan?

[FG Lurker]

[quote="IkemenTommy"]Takechan? ]


No... Seriously, I understand that what Japan did to these people's grandparents was wrong on every level. 60~70 years and 3 or 4 generations later though it's time to get over it and move on. Refusing to take citizenship but demanding the right to vote is fucked up and no country should allow non-citizens to vote in national elections.

[eddie]

Still, I think the overt hostility toward foreigners and anger within these demonstrators probably makes them the most honest Japanese I've seen in decades of living here. I think most people here probably share the beliefs of these people, but haven't got the guts to be honest enough to show it overtly because the last time they did that, they got pummeled.

you think it takes guts to be part of a mob? wha- wha- wha- what?!

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

you think it takes guts to be part of a mob? wha- wha- wha- what?!

Fair point....I am basically saying that, aren't I?
I guess the point I was trying to get across is that at least they -- even as a mob -- are open about their beliefs and feelings and I gave them kudos for that, even if I don't necessarily like what they have to say or how they get that message across.
I stand by my assertion that the vast majority of Japanese I know share similar thoughts to these people, but would never voice them in such a public way.