Chinese Wet Dreams

[Mulboyne]

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I've just seen the first two Ip Man films, loosely based on the life of the martial arts instructor who was famous for starting the school which Bruce Lee attended. The clip above shows him in the climactic showdown from the first film where he takes on General Miura, played by Hiroyuki Ikeuchi. The British don't get off any more easily in the second film where Ip Man takes on "The Twister", a boxer who has openly disparaged the Chinese and their martial arts:

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[Socratesabroad]

"Wet dreams" is precisely right.

Where to begin, where to begin, where to begin...

Watching the second clip of the supposed "boxing match" was absolutely painful as that's the worst example of movie boxing I've ever seen. Sadly, the actor's a martial artist and not a boxer, which is readily apparent from his lack of short, crisp, precise punches.

And while wing chun may have its adherents, I've yet to see any compete successfully in any of the ultimate fighting/mma bouts. Contrast that to the other martial arts, both Western and Oriental, that have proven nastily effective:
-Kickboxing/sanda (the Chinese version)
-Boxing
-Wrestling
-Muay Thai
-Jiujitsu (and especially Brazilian variants)
Also making an appearance are elements of
-Tae kwon do
-Judo
and hybrid versions of the above (e.g. Sambo)

Notice how wing chun is painfully absent from that list...

[fooj]

Yip Man is considered a lengendary martial artist/folk hero in China, so it's not unusual for a feature film to embelish, sensationalize, no... worship, his life accomplishments. Yip Man is the new Wong Fei Hung. Heck, every fuked gaijin out there who's ever taken Wing Chun or had that Bruce Lee poster in their bedroom as a kid treats this guy like a God. These kinds of films that celebrate famous martial artists are nothing more than extentions of the chinese pulp fiction serial literature that have been around for uber generations. Formulaic and only passingly historical.

[Coligny]

Yip Man is considered a lengendary martial artist/folk hero in China, so it's not unusual for a feature film to embelish, sensationalize, no... worship, his life accomplishments. Yip Man is the new Wong Fei Hung. Heck, every fuked gaijin out there who's ever taken Wing Chun or had that Bruce Lee poster in their bedroom as a kid treats this guy like a God. These kinds of films that celebrate famous martial artists are nothing more than extentions of the chinese pulp fiction serial literature that have been around for uber generations. Formulaic and only passingly historical.

Yeah I also hear that this dogfight scene in "the final countdown" between F14 and Zeke Zeroe Fighters... It was like totally made up... The Grummans whould have had their asses wooped in a close range engagement... As for the missile hit... against a small slow moving target that can ride 50 cm over the sea... hard to believe...

(Also Batman is stronger than Superman but they both would be sent home by Super Dupont
)

[Takechanpoo]

[fooj]

[Mike Oxlong]

Reminds me of some of the fight scenes in Jet Li's Fearless...

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[Samurai_Jerk]

"Wet dreams" is precisely right.

Where to begin, where to begin, where to begin...

Watching the second clip of the supposed "boxing match" was absolutely painful as that's the worst example of movie boxing I've ever seen. Sadly, the actor's a martial artist and not a boxer, which is readily apparent from his lack of short, crisp, precise punches.

And while wing chun may have its adherents, I've yet to see any compete successfully in any of the ultimate fighting/mma bouts. Contrast that to the other martial arts, both Western and Oriental, that have proven nastily effective:
-Kickboxing/sanda (the Chinese version)
-Boxing
-Wrestling
-Muay Thai
-Jiujitsu (and especially Brazilian variants)
Also making an appearance are elements of
-Tae kwon do
-Judo
and hybrid versions of the above (e.g. Sambo)

Notice how wing chun is painfully absent from that list...

It's a movie so I don't expect realism. However, the choreography is beyond boring. Worse than those boring ass string fights in Jet Li movies. I miss Jackie Chan in his prime

[Hokgwai]

"Wet dreams" is precisely right.

Where to begin, where to begin, where to begin...

.....And while wing chun may have its adherents, I've yet to see any compete successfully in any of the ultimate fighting/mma bouts. Contrast that to the other martial arts, both Western and Oriental, that have proven nastily effective:
-Kickboxing/sanda (the Chinese version)
-Boxing
-Wrestling
-Muay Thai
-Jiujitsu (and especially Brazilian variants)
Also making an appearance are elements of
-Tae kwon do
-Judo
and hybrid versions of the above (e.g. Sambo)

Notice how wing chun is painfully absent from that list...

1) To repeat what another said it's a movie, so try not to get hypnotized into expecting any sort of realism.

2) In today's environment of martial arts and so called MMA, just because a UFC or MMA fighter hasn't called himself a "wing chun man" doesn't mean he hasn't practiced Wing Chun or has included some of its principles in his method or approach towards fighting.

Wing Chun in today's fighting environment cannot be applied "literally" but it's principles of "chi sao" are VERY applicable especially in a grappling situation. Ask any person who understands or uses Jeet Kune Do principles will tell you the same thing.

Just because you can't see Wing Chun visibly (like what you would see in the movies or on Youtube) with a MMA practioner, doesn't mean it's principles aren't being used.

[Samurai_Jerk]

In today's environment of martial arts and so called MMA, just because a UFC or MMA fighter hasn't called himself a "wing chun man" doesn't mean he hasn't practiced Wing Chun or has included some of its principles in his method or approach towards fighting.

Wing Chun in today's fighting environment cannot be applied "literally" but it's principles of "chi sao" are VERY applicable especially in a grappling situation. Ask any person who understands or uses Jeet Kune Do principles will tell you the same thing.

Just because you can't see Wing Chun visibly (like what you would see in the movies or on Youtube) with a MMA practioner, doesn't mean it's principles aren't being used.

It's possible there are a couple of blocks or traps from Wing Chun that some MMA fighter use but it is pretty much useless in a real fight. Besides, what man wants to learn how to punch like a girl?

[Hokgwai]

It's possible there are a couple of blocks or traps from Wing Chun that some MMA fighter use but it is pretty much useless in a real fight. Besides, what man wants to learn how to punch like a girl?

The system (Wing Chun or any other system you choose) is only a blueprint.

REAL fighting entails appropriate application of the "concepts". NOT, doing literally what was practiced in the schools.

There is literal application of wing chun from a traditional sense....(which serves mostly to preserve an art in my view) and there modern application of wing chun in which any person who understands fighting will modify to today's modern times and situations.

Too many people have this false sense when martial artists square off "systems are combating". "Muy Thai vs. Grappling", etc. The individuals are squaring off----not the systems.

Lastly-----keep in mind there are RULES in UFC and MMA bouts. In REAL fighting there are no rules. If people were allowed to go all out people would be getting kicked in the groin, struck to the throat and having their eyes gouged out. All of which are basic in Wing Chun. (think twice before saying Wing Chun isn't effective in a fight)

[Samurai_Jerk]

REAL fighting entails appropriate application of the "concepts". NOT, doing literally what was practiced in the schools.

Bullshit. Punches, kicks, take downs, chokes and armlocks that are practiced in gyms/dojos/etc. of effective fighting systems are the same that are used in a "live" situation. The mechanics are the same, the main difference is how hard you go. The problem with a lot of tradtional systems is somewhere along the way body conditioning exercises became the main way to practice fighting.

Lastly-----keep in mind there are RULES in UFC and MMA bouts. In REAL fighting there are no rules. If people were allowed to go all out people would be getting kicked in the groin, struck to the throat and having their eyes gouged out. All of which are basic in Wing Chun. (think twice before saying Wing Chun isn't effective in a fight)

I can't believe people are still making this argument. What is it, 1994?

[Hokgwai]

Bullshit. Punches, kicks, take downs, chokes and armlocks that are practiced in gyms/dojos/etc. of effective fighting systems are the same that are used in a "live" situation. The mechanics are the same, the main difference is how hard you go. The problem with a lot of tradtional systems is somewhere along the way body conditioning exercises became the main way to practice fighting.



I can't believe people are still making this argument. What is it, 1994?

Something tells me you are not a martial artist....much less ever been in a fight.

No martial artist----even Wing Chun's "rivals" would be so glib.

If you don't practice martial arts----- ( and I mean seriously, not a "tourist" and having a friend who is a MA doesn't count)----- Please have a little respect and don't be so glib about things you don't know about.

IF you really read my post, you would have noticed you argued MY very own point.

Talking smack publicly about systems they haven't practiced before is something that martial artists just DON'T do.

If I am wrong (which I doubt) about you being a martial artist, I doubt your teacher would condone you making a flip remarks.

If you have never been in a fight, then tell me what credentials do you have?
Watching TV doesn't count.

Funny you ask about 1994, because I've been a martial arts practitioner since 1994 and instructing since '98.


....and if you are thinking about coming back with yet another contentious and glib remark to ease your ego---- please, seriously think about what you are responding to and what you're saying before you respond.

Seriously I'm just trying to help you out. Goodness forbid you make remarks like that in front of a martial artist who is not so tolerant.

[Typhoon]

I noticed that an anagram for

Wing Chung Kung Fu

is

Fuck Hug Wing Nun

Interesting . . .

[Adhesive]

there modern application of wing chun in which any person who understands fighting will modify to today's modern times and situations.

Just curious if you have any good examples of wing chun being effectively incorporated into an MMA fight. I'm genuinely interested, as I've never seen any fighter claiming a traditional Wing Chun background do very well in the MMA. I can imagine some strikers incorporating it into their boxing, but it would be too hard for me to notice the influence given that I'm not a martial artist. The stance just seems like utter suicide to me.

I'm not knocking Wing Chu, I'm sure it has some value, especially against your common street thug, but I wonder if it has to be modified past the point of recognition in order for it to be practical in a MMA fight, can you still genuinely claim it has any more application in MMA than something like Tae Bo? I mean, any athletic discipline has some application in a fight.

[Hokgwai]

Just curious if you have any good examples of wing chun being effectively incorporated into an MMA fight. I'm genuinely interested, as I've never seen any fighter claiming a traditional Wing Chun background do very well in the MMA. I can imagine some strikers incorporating it into their boxing, but it would be too hard for me to notice the influence given that I'm not a martial artist. The stance just seems like utter suicide to me.

I'm not knocking Wing Chu, I'm sure it has some value, especially against your common street thug, but I wonder if it has to be modified past the point of recognition in order for it to be practical in a MMA fight, can you still genuinely claim it has any more application in MMA than something like Tae Bo? I mean, any athletic discipline has some application in a fight.

I can totally understand how someone who hasn't practiced wing chun could find the applications in a MMA fight hard to imagine.

If a wing chun man were to get into a MMA/ UFC ring with pure literal wing chun (stances and all) ---- he would have to be phenomenally proficient to survive.

If a smart wing chun wing chun man got into the ring he would use principles such as "chi sao" and taking advantage of "centerline" . These are things that (sorry to say), the layman would NOT recognize watching a fight. These sorts of things are just not visible to the untrained eye.

This is why movies and yes, even publicized MMA fights frustrate me, because it hypnotizes people (again, laypeople) to have unrealistic expectations of what to see in a fight. I'm willing to bet there are people out there who think Wing Chun "chi sao" drills are literally how Wing Chun people fight in a real situation.

If you were to see Wing Chun in a real fight application, it's not the kind of thing where you can stand on the on the other side of the street, 50 feet away and be able to say "That's Wing Chun!"

Wing chun has joint locks, kicks, take downs and submission holds. No one is going to be able to say "Ooh! That was a wing chun joint lock!" In truth, once you have practiced martial arts for awhile you start to see, there is little difference between the actual punches, kicks and open hand weapons between systems. (there is a finite number of ways the human body can actually punch and kick) BUT what makes the systems different are the theories behind fighting---- which in most cases is not so easily visible.

Sorry to be long winded but my point is that, if a Wing Chun person were to step into a ring----or any other REAL fight, he is NOT going to fix himself in traditional wing chun stance and pose in preparation to fight. That just doesn't happen and would be foolish on the part of the practitioner. You are not going to get the "Wing Chun Show" where you will see clear crisp stances and "step 1, step 2 and step 3" techniques.

Good martial arts is not just what you physically do in a fight but it's your strategy and approach towards the fight. And that isn't so visible to people who don't practice martial arts.

If you really are serious about wanting to see how Wing Chun can be used in a MMA fight, I suggest finding a good, qualified instructor and seriously studying Wing Chun for a few years. Otherwise don't expect to be able to recognize it.

[ketchupkatsu]

...... because I've been a martial arts practitioner since 1994 and instructing since '98.....

Wow 4 years to master and instruct? What martial art do you practice? Is it Wing Chun?

I have many more years than that in Judo, and I still don't believe I have it mastered.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Wow 4 years to master and instruct? What martial art do you practice? Is it Wing Chun?

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[Hokgwai]

Wow 4 years to master and instruct? What martial art do you practice? Is it Wing Chun?

I have many more years than that in Judo, and I still don't believe I have it mastered.

I never said I was a "master". Being a master is something that someone calls you. If you start calling yourself a "master" in your private thoughts then something is wrong.....and you're limiting your growth and understanding. That's basic.

I said I have been instructing since '98. That includes my time as an assistant instructor. My time with my school wasn't as a "tourist". After 9 hours a week for 4 years---- it's your duty to assist to your school and instruct at that point. If you have been practicing Judo longer than I have been in Wing Chun, you should know that-----and I do assume you have been instructing yourself....that is if you have been a consistent practitioner.

Yes, those years I was referring to '94 to present have been in Wing Chun Kung Fu-----as well as a healthy side curriculum in kickboxing and grappling.

....as for our friend "Samurai Jerk" looks like he went out his way to find something foolish to post about Wing Chun. If it was done in good natured banter, I welcome it.

The title of that video should be "Martial Arts as Practiced by Fools Sucks"
I can find the same type of video on Karate or other martial arts.

Since Asian martial arts went "public" into the western world after World War II, I would dare say more than 60% of the people in the world are not teaching, practicing, or applying it with the proper understanding or expectations.

We have martial arts in movies and commercialized MMA matches to thank for that.

Ironically the thing that has promoted martial arts the most worldwide since the 1950's has also been its biggest bane.

[Samurai_Jerk]

....as for our friend "Samurai Jerk" looks like he went out his way to find something foolish to post about Wing Chun. If it was done in good natured banter, I welcome it.

Believe me I didn't go out of my way. I've been a fan of Bullshido.com for years and knew exactly which video I was looking for.


Anyway, I think this Wing Chun for yobbos video is even better:

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