"Administrative Cost" for Visa Sponsorship: Ripoff?

[Kanchou]

If a company wants you to pay an "administrative cost" for Visa sponsorship (of nearly 20,000 yen), is this illegal or consider a scam?

They reimburse you at the end of your contract, but how much does it actually cost a company to sponsor your visa?

[Iraira]

If a company wants you to pay an "administrative cost" for Visa sponsorship (of nearly 20,000 yen), is this illegal or consider a scam?

They reimburse you at the end of your contract, but how much does it actually cost a company to sponsor your visa?

Aside from the time that it takes the secretary to compile all the needed documents and prepare a cute little package for the Immi people, it shouldn't cost your company anything. I can't see how Immigration could bill a company for hiring a foreigner.

[Kanchou]

Another company wants to know what my mother and father's heritages are.

WTF? I'm pretty sure that's illegal (at least it is in the US, and TECHNICALLY in Japan).

They also ask about my age (IIRC it's OK to ask DOB but NOT age), marital status (every company seems to ask this), nationality (this is only relavant when applying for a visa)...

Someone really needs to slap Japanese HR managers.

[Kanchou]

Is there something I should do if they're not even willing to consider waiving the fee?

[omae mona]

The government processing fee for most work-related visas is 6,000 yen. If they are outsourcing the visa handling to a specialist agent, I wouldn't be surprised if the agent is charging 10,000+ yen beyond that to take care of things. As Iraira points out, though, the paperwork should be pretty simple. However, it could potentially become time-consuming if there is any problem (including visits in person to the immigration office to plead with them if they reject the application, etc.).

I think it's ridiculous for them to charge you this. It could reflect their real costs, but they might just be assholes. Either way, I do not believe it's illegal. It certainly wouldn't look good if the government suspected them of illegitimate sponsorship in exchange for fees (as was the case recently with a lot of Japanese language schools whose students never actually came to class). Still, that's their problem and not yours.

All the other things you mentioned are also 100% legal in Japan as far as I know, or at least they are violations of unenforceable rules. They can request information about your ethnic background and age, and there's not a lot you can do about it except refuse to provide it (and almost certainly have your application rejected).

[amdg]

Another company wants to know what my mother and father's heritages are.

WTF? I'm pretty sure that's illegal (at least it is in the US, and TECHNICALLY in Japan).

Just tell them - American/Canadian/etc etc. It answers the question but not in the way they probably want (i.e., they are probably fishing for info as to your race).

They also ask about my age (IIRC it's OK to ask DOB but NOT age), ).

Huh? What's the difference between asking age and DOB?

marital status (every company seems to ask this), nationality (this is only relavant when applying for a visa)...).

Yeah, but I don't think its a major problem, just answer any way you want. You can always "get divorced/married" next week.

Someone really needs to slap Japanese HR managers.

I volunteer.

P.S. If they ask for 20,000 yen for admin expenses, expect to get bled dry by this company in the future.

[Greji]

The government processing fee for most work-related visas is 6,000 yen. If they are outsourcing the visa handling to a specialist agent, I wouldn't be surprised if the agent is charging 10,000+ yen beyond that to take care of things. As Iraira points out, though, the paperwork should be pretty simple. However, it could potentially become time-consuming if there is any problem (including visits in person to the immigration office to plead with them if they reject the application, etc.)

I have to agree somewhat with omae mona on the visa. A lot of companies do use outsiders and 20,000 is not an unreasonable fee to a lot of these agencies. But as OM says, it is a bit strange that they would be passing this on to you.

As far as the personal information, a large amount of companies do have to collect this type of information if you are going to be a full time employee, for reasons such as filling out your insurance and tax paperwork to how much family allotment you qualify for.

Assuming you're not Japanese or half, I've got no idea why they want to know your heritage, unless they have a thoroughbred stud farm operation and are planning on breeding you!

[Kanchou]

The only question that really offends me is the heritage question.

No self-respecting HR guy in the US would even CONSIDER asking this for fear of a lawsuit.

The other ones are just annoying because they're *technically* illegal, although less offensive. OTOH, they might have a bona fide qualification in terms of nationality, due to requiring the applicant to be a native English speaker.

OTOH, I'm probably not going to go with this company if I can't negotiate a better salary, anyway...

The Berlitz Japan union's website actually lists those questions as being illegal, IIRC...

[GomiGirl]

My take on it would be just that they are being nosey - not uncommon here as people want to be able to put you in a neat little box ASAP. Westerners see things as illegal or immoral that Japanese may not even give a second thought to, especially if the company is not a global company or a large multinational with sophisticated HR departments.

How you view it really depends on how much you want the job and if you want to be seen as "difficult" from the get-go. Going the "union says X" route right from the start is likely to get you labelled as a troublemaker. As an employer myself, I probably wouldn't hire you if you started in this fashion.

You haven't mentioned what sort of job it is.

[Kanchou]

A subcontracted ALT position (since the JET program's screening process is a total crapshoot). $500 less a month, and no plane ticket, but I'm not going to wait another two years to get in Japan with JET.

Both my parents are white (Irish and Hungarian/German, respectively), but they don't need to know that. They're going to see the pictures they required anyway...

Are American employers allowed to require employees to send pictures?

I know that Japanese interviews have to, but unlike a foreigner, they're not going to hold your looks against them (for the most part).

[ttjereth]

I have to agree somewhat with omae mona on the visa. A lot of companies do use outsiders and 20,000 is not an unreasonable fee to a lot of these agencies. But as OM says, it is a bit strange that they would be passing this on to you.

As far as the personal information, a large amount of companies do have to collect this type of information if you are going to be a full time employee, for reasons such as filling out your insurance and tax paperwork to how much family allotment you qualify for.

Assuming you're not Japanese or half, I've got no idea why they want to know your heritage, unless they have a thoroughbred stud farm operation and are planning on breeding you!

He said the fee is refunded at the end of his contract, so my guess is this is just a way of them trying to ensure he finishes out his contract and doesn't just use them as a visa jumping board.

Although honestly, 2man isn't a bad price for a sponsored work visa if you are just looking to buy one....

[ttjereth]

A subcontracted ALT position (since the JET program's screening process is a total crapshoot). $500 less a month, and no plane ticket, but I'm not going to wait another two years to get in Japan with JET.

Both my parents are white (Irish and Hungarian/German, respectively), but they don't need to know that. They're going to see the pictures they required anyway...

Are American employers allowed to require employees to send pictures?

I know that Japanese interviews have to, but unlike a foreigner, they're not going to hold your looks against them (for the most part).

Whereas I understand where you're coming from, I think you're gonna have a hard time here if you try to stick to your principles and go up in arms everytime something here doesn't sit right with you, especially when the odds are that complying with the requests (whether you feel they are appropriate or not) isn't really going to hurt you any. Essentially it comes down to what's more important to you, having stood up for your principles on what really overall tends to be a minor matter, or getting a job.

Eikaiwa companies here in particular tend to have a very high turn over rate, and a lot of people who run out on them with very little notice so they tend to be fairly defensive and proactive when it comes to trying to prevent themselves from being used as a stepping stone to a work visa and a better job and being left in the lurch when say a teacher quits in the middle of the school year and such.

That all ends up leading to bunch of shitty working conditions, and very little interest or care for individual teachers, since they are generally seen as a short term and replaceable commodity.

In short, there are more eikaiwa companies that will treat you like shit and do all sorts of things that you won't like/agree with than there are those who work the way you think they should, so if that's the field you're looking to get into (even short time) you should probably get used to swallowing pride and exercising lots of "gaman" now, otherwise it's gonna be tougher on you in the long run.

If you actually are planning on looking for better work once you get here anyway, then who cares what they want, you won't be there long anyway, right?

Also, totally useless information, but just to let you know, Japanese companies do also discriminate against Japanese based on photos. I've personally seen in two different companies where applicants where dismissed based on photos for a variety of reasons including: they looked otaku-ish, they were guys with long/dyed hair or guys with piercings, and best of all "they looked lazy". I've also seen women get interviews (and in 2 cases hired) based more or less solely on their looks as well.

[Kuang_Grade]

I'm no lawyer, but in the US, the nationality question would only come if the job was somehow limited to US citizens, such as certain jobs on US gov contracts and national security related positions.

In the US would be out of bounds to ask "what country are you from?" but "are you legally entitled to work in the US and have document proof of that fact?" would be OK.

It probably wouldn't be out of line for a US company, if they sponsored a visa for someone, if they placed some sort of penalty if you left before a certain time....no different that say, an employer requiring moving assistance funds to be repaid if the employee quit before X number of months had gone by.

While it is far more likely, as gomigirl suggests that it is a case of filling some mental check box, the nationality question could also pop up in language teaching in regards to national dialect issues...While J folks may want to learn English, they may want to learn specific national level language...a American, Australian and a Scottish person may all speak english but they certainly don't all talk same.

[maraboutslim]

Kanchou, if you find these sorts of questions and treatment problematic, then Japan just isn't the place for you, dude.

Look on the bright side, the fact that japanese employers can legally discriminate on the basis of sex, age, and appearance means that you won't have fat, old hags working in offices or restaurants or for the airlines like we have in the rest of the world.

[FG Lurker]

No self-respecting HR guy in the US would even CONSIDER asking this for fear of a lawsuit.

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but this isn't the US and things work differently here. Sometimes that will be to your benefit and sometimes not. Would you really be interested in coming to Japan if everything was exactly the same as it is where you are now?

OTOH, I'm probably not going to go with this company if I can't negotiate a better salary, anyway...

Good luck! With NOVA dead there are *far* more people who want to come to Japan than there are jobs around. It's very much an employers market and wages/conditions will reflect that.

[Oradea]

A subcontracted ALT position (since the JET program's screening process is a total crapshoot). $500 less a month, and no plane ticket, but I'm not going to wait another two years to get in Japan with JET.

Both my parents are white (Irish and Hungarian/German, respectively), but they don't need to know that. They're going to see the pictures they required anyway...

Are American employers allowed to require employees to send pictures?

I know that Japanese interviews have to, but unlike a foreigner, they're not going to hold your looks against them (for the most part).

I dont really get it. You want to come here to Japan to work, Im assuming you are not here yet. If you bring the attitude of (Well, in America we do this, and dont do that) Then you might have a tough time adjusting. I am making no judgement on whether or not what you are saying is right or wrong, just thinking that most Japanese people wouldnt give a second thought to asking these kind of questions, and there would likely be few sympathisers.

As for the 20,000 yen fee, as a former HR employee, I think its a disgrace. My previous company did all the work, prepared everything, the new employee was responsible for the 6000yen government processing fee, but that was standard across the board. I agree that a company thats starts out like that is going to continue. Sounds like a bad move. I hope you get something more in line with your expectations!

[ttjereth]

A subcontracted ALT position (since the JET program's screening process is a total crapshoot). $500 less a month, and no plane ticket, but I'm not going to wait another two years to get in Japan with JET.

Both my parents are white (Irish and Hungarian/German, respectively), but they don't need to know that. They're going to see the pictures they required anyway...

Are American employers allowed to require employees to send pictures?

I know that Japanese interviews have to, but unlike a foreigner, they're not going to hold your looks against them (for the most part).

Just noticed your mention of the pay and thought I'd point out that 5 less than JET is pretty damn good pay for the current market.

Not trying to pick on your or anything, just give you a heads up on the actual situation. I know a few people here who are now working eikaiwa for less than 2k a month on what equates to full time hours.

[DrP]

T.I.J.

1) Pictures are standard on EVERY Japanese employee application - they'll be on yours too. (Why the F* do you think there are photobooth every station - except for enjo-kosai quickies)

2) 20,000Y 'admin fees' are are for putting up with f*d gaijin translation, babysitting and overall bs* you have to go through in getting the visa -otherwise, they have to outsource and it costs on average 100,000Y for a registered scrivener to manage. So, consider the 20k - 80k in your pocket. If you want them to waive the 20k, then tell them you just need the employer guarantor letter and you'll do the rest. Capisce?

3) Japan is the most <legally> xenophobic place on the planet. And even for the Japanese low wage earners - you're lucky if you don't have to reside in a cockroach ridden dorm with 50 other stenchy salarymen with shit breath and rotten teeth, besides going to work and getting the phone plastic-taped to your head...

[Kanchou]

Believe me, I know there's a lot of crap to put up worth working ESL in Japan (especially in the private sector).

I just want to know what I can get away with (in terms of complaining) before they decide to toss my application. (The Interac guys in Tokyo tossed me, although I seemed to have passed the interview (despite a few hiccups... which will remind me to rehearse whenever I"m going to be on camera).

I also want to avoid companies that have practices that are considered unreasonable, or illegal (Interac got busted for giving their employees orders despite the fact that legally, only the BOE was allowed to control them). Or ones with unreasonably low pay for the hours.


I noticed that the salary for Berlitz seemed to be the same as a private ALT, but with less than 30 hours a week (versus up to 40)... although I haven't heard back from them yet.

Are there any laws for paying teachers a percentage of their summer/winter vacation pay? They seem to pay you 60% or less for August, and sometimes for December.

[GomiGirl]

Mate, with this sort of attitude you are really going to have trouble. In all of this, I am only hearing "what is in this for me" and as an employer that rings some serious alarm bells.

I know people who work in ESL (not eikawa) and really think of themselves as professional educators and are really trying hard for their students and employers. They do have a lot of job satisfaction and have been doing it for a number of years very happily.

I also know lots of people who look on eikawa as a paid holiday in Japan. That is fine too but in eikawa, turnover is high and job satisfaction is low. But there are a heap of teachers and not that many jobs these days so you are really not in much of a bargaining position.

In terms of complaining, I think you need to leave most of that at home. I would even think that American employers wouldn't stand for much complaining either.

[Oradea]

yeah, you could seriously find it very difficult to even find employment in the first place. You want to know how much complaining you can get away with? I thought you were looking for a job? If you are, then even if it is in the eikaiwa sector, you are going to have to work hard, and be good at it. There are plenty of ex nova teachers who have the following;
1) work experience in japan
2) experience teaching english
3) some japanese ability
For you to get employed, you will need all the above plus more, a company might hire you for the novelty purpose, they like to throw in a NEW gaijin every now and then. Your attitude as it comes across on this board, is going to make it difficult for you to get employment. If interact passed you over, that is not a good sign at all, they arent exactly the strictest of hirers.

[Kanchou]

When I say complaining, I mean whether I should do things like ignore questions about my heritage, ask them to wave fees, or ask for higher starting salary. I don't mean complaining to them directly about something before I'm even hired.

My 'tude in real life is a lot better than on the internet, and if I get the job I intend to actually do it to the utmost of my ability.

But there's no use getting hired by a company that is going to treat you poorly.

I would imagine that Interac passed me over either because I was confused about a question they were asking me during the interview (about placement preferences), and the interviewer got kind of angry at me (although we seemed to finish on a good note), or because I choked for a good 30 seconds after the video camera started rolling for the demo lesson (you get ONE take, which seems counter-intuitive since it's in their interest that you get hired).

I may have also forgot some paperwork... but they told me "everything was in order" in an email, despite telling me before that I'd need to send transcripts to Tokyo.

[FG Lurker]

When I say complaining, I mean whether I should do things like ignore questions about my heritage, ask them to wave fees, or ask for higher starting salary. I don't mean complaining to them directly about something before I'm even hired.

With the current glut of teachers here the amount of complaining you can do is "none".

But there's no use getting hired by a company that is going to treat you poorly.

Take what you can get to get over here. Learn the ropes and get some experience. Then start to look around for something better.

[ttjereth]

I just want to know what I can get away with (in terms of complaining) before they decide to toss my application. (The Interac guys in Tokyo tossed me, although I seemed to have passed the interview (despite a few hiccups... which will remind me to rehearse whenever I"m going to be on camera).

Interac is a terrible company and being passed up by them doesn't necessarily have to mean anything more than the interviewer didn't like you for whatever reason. Less than professional to say the least. However...

I also want to avoid companies that have practices that are considered unreasonable, or illegal (Interac got busted for giving their employees orders despite the fact that legally, only the BOE was allowed to control them). Or ones with unreasonably low pay for the hours.

You have just eliminated 99% of the eikaiwa job market and pretty decent chunk of the overall gaijin entry level market too. I will tell you right now, I have not worked a job yet in Japan, where something that was "technically" illegal wasn't going on. It's par for the course and I think you might find that you will even get screwed over worse by fellow gaijin in Japan than by the purely Japanese run companies.

Essentially, if it isn't something that is going to inconvenience you greatly, or affect your life at all in the long run, then you are better off just ignoring/putting up with it.

Are there any laws for paying teachers a percentage of their summer/winter vacation pay? They seem to pay you 60% or less for August, and sometimes for December.

Most companies don't pay you at all when you aren't working. When I did a year as an English teacher (working through the BOE mind you) in Tokyo, I had 1 month every year where I was technically unemployed and got no pay.

[Ptyx]

TIJ. For the record i just applied for a company they asked me the following :

Height
Vision Deficiency (left and right eye)
Vision Deficiency once corrected (left and right eye) and the type of correction (Glasses, contact lenses...)
Color Blind (yes or no) this kinda make sense, it's for a video type of job so...
Blood Type

On top of that they want a picture of me on the resume. It's pretty standard in Japan but they mentionned it, as if they received a lot of resume without picture.
I also put my nationality in there just in case, yeah they didn't ask for nationality but i guess it's because they suppose no gaijin is going to come and knock at their door.

[dimwit]

TIJ. For the record i just applied for a company they asked me the following :

Vision Deficiency (left and right eye)
Vision Deficiency once corrected (left and right eye) and the type of correction (Glasses, contact lenses...)
Color Blind (yes or no) this kinda make sense, it's for a video type of job so...

Hey why being able to see coloours be a problem in video?

[Kanchou]

Note to self... don't bitch about the low pay or the 'admin' fees.

And don't skirt around the vaguely offensive questions before your foot is in the door.

[FG Lurker]

Note to self... don't bitch about the low pay or the 'admin' fees.

And don't skirt around the vaguely offensive questions before your foot is in the door.

Well, you're learning...

[ttjereth]

Well, you're learning...

Yeah. You save the bitching for AFTER you've been there a bit.

[Greji]

Yeah. You save the bitching for AFTER you've been there a bit.

That is a good think about TIJ. Seniority provides unlimited bitching rights, as well as the right to abuse all underlings and to sexually harass any female that is within reach! Lovely system for us old, insecure lechers!