A Rather F*cked Visa problem for everyone to figure out!

[Molokidan]

Hello everyone. I'm on the brink of returning to Japan yet again, but this time things are getting a little messy. I've snagged a student visa, and I'll be studying at a university in Japan, however my term here in the US runs out far before they're going to send my certificate of eligibility, and I have basically no place to stay, since my family lives in Saudi Arabia. I was going to go visit them for a bit and then head to Japan. After finding out that the consulate there will NOT be able to give me my student visa to Japan, I really have little choice but to go into Japan first as a tourist and then hopefully switch it to a student with my certificate.

My question is, is this even possible? Some people have told me yes through immigration bureaus, but other people have told me it's absolutely impossible. Someone told me I could fly to Korea and go to the consulate there and get it changed, but that sounds kinda sketchy. Is there a real solution to this? My certificate is not supposed to be issued until mid-July, but my term in the US ends the first week of June, so I have to go out of the country, there's no way around it. I've just heard so much from so many different sources at this point, that I don't really know who to trust...except you guys! Well, you've given me good advice before, so I decided to try it again. Hope someone can shed a little light on this dilemma.

[Visitor K]

unless i am missing something, you are just asking if you can change visa status in the country? i know that switching from a tourist to working visa is no problem and you can do it with a few* trips to immigration.. it used to be necessary to go over to korea for a weekend to change the status (and its not really sketchy at all, it used to be the only way to do it), but im pretty sure you can change to/from any status now without leaving the country.. at least thats what i was lead to believe, someone else may know better, or its probably been covered before and can be found with a search.

good luck.

* your results may vary... it is bureaucracy at its finest in japan.

[Charles]

You haven't made it really clear what nationality you are. It seems from your brief description that you holding either an American passport, or a Saudi passport. This might make a huge difference.

But I don't see the problem. Sure you want to get to Japan ASAP, but is it so bad to just go live with your family for a few weeks while the visa issues get ironed out?

[Molokidan]

Thanks for the quick answers, guys.

Sorry I wasn't clear -- I am American, and I have a US passport. I don't mind living with the family at all, the problem is that the Oman-Japan embassy has told me that they can not issue me my student visa there. That's why I wanted to get to Japan to get all this stuff straightened out as fast as possible.

Wow, if I could get my visa changed without leaving the country though, that'd be awesome. I'll have to look on some immigration sites and try to figure out how.

[Visitor K]

google is your friend, a search for 'japan student visa "change status"' yeilded this good site (and some others)
http://www.educationjapan.org/visas/types.html
this is the part that seemed most applicable to you:

It is possible to enter Japan on a tourist visa and then change to a student visa. However, you still have to complete the entire process of applying for the student visa through a language school or university by the relevant deadlines. It is not a short-cut to a student visa, and being in Japan on a tourist visa does not make the process any easier for you. See the section on changing visa status for information relevant to being in Japan on other visas and changing to a student visa.

so i guess if you complete your application to the language school and get the student visa application started before you get the tourist visa you should be okay.
if not, you might have to leave the country for a few days, but again, this is not really 'sketchy' as everybody used to have to do this everytime they wanted to change their status.

[Molokidan]

Alright, thank you so much. I am going to call up the immigration bureau and figure out the steps to do this right away. Much appreciated!

[Samurai_Jerk]

The real question is if he's already started the process at a consulate or embassy in one country, can he finish it an a consulate or embassy in another. That's a little different from arriving in Japan as a tourist and starting the process from scratch.

By the way, if you are a US citizen, why don't you just hang out in the States till the certificate is issued. You could probably work out somewhere to stay if you tried.

[omae mona]

Molokidan - I'm a little confused by your situation. It sounds as if your school already submitted the visa paperwork, but due to family plans, you won't be in the U.S. when the certificate of eligibility is going to be mailed to you. So you are going to abandon the certificate and start the process again from scratch. Is that correct?

[halfnip]

I agree with SJ. You are making this A LOT more complicated by dumping everything and starting from scratch. I had my COE in a matter of weeks and the Visa process was fairly quick overall. Going through things once you get here and then switching things over to a student Visa will surely take much longer.

Depending on where you live in the US and where the nearest Japanese consulate is, you can have your COE mailed to you vs. actually having to go in and pick it up. I don't see why you can't have it mailed to someone and then have them mail it to you whever you are. All you'd have to do then is submit it to immigration once you touch down at Narita and you're pretty much done...

[kamome]

Hello everyone. I'm on the brink of returning to Japan yet again, but this time things are getting a little messy. I've snagged a student visa, and I'll be studying at a university in Japan, however my term here in the US runs out far before they're going to send my certificate of eligibility, and I have basically no place to stay, since my family lives in Saudi Arabia. I was going to go visit them for a bit and then head to Japan. After finding out that the consulate there will NOT be able to give me my student visa to Japan, I really have little choice but to go into Japan first as a tourist and then hopefully switch it to a student with my certificate.

My question is, is this even possible? Some people have told me yes through immigration bureaus, but other people have told me it's absolutely impossible. Someone told me I could fly to Korea and go to the consulate there and get it changed, but that sounds kinda sketchy. Is there a real solution to this? My certificate is not supposed to be issued until mid-July, but my term in the US ends the first week of June, so I have to go out of the country, there's no way around it. I've just heard so much from so many different sources at this point, that I don't really know who to trust...except you guys! Well, you've given me good advice before, so I decided to try it again. Hope someone can shed a little light on this dilemma.

If the embassy handling your visa is in the US, you could go to Japan on a tourist visa and then return to the US to pick up the student visa and reenter Japan on the student visa. The entry and reentry on different visas could raise a red flag, however. I would check with an immigration attorney in Japan to gauge what the issues are.

[Molokidan]

Thanks for all the help guys.

What I did is apply for the C of E, which is coming to me sometime in July. Thanks to Visitor K's advice, I called the Immigration Bureau in Tokyo and told them my story and what was going on. They said that as long as I bring the C of E with my and my passport, and register in city hall beforehand, that I can change my status without having to leave Japan for a mere $40 and a few extra visits. I'll be in Tokyo for a while anyway before departing to my university so this shouldn't be too big of a deal.

I know that I really could stay in the US for the extra month and wait, but as I already have my ticket booked for Oman, hotel reservations, etc...that would be a big mess. I'm just glad I can get this done reasonably cheap and most importantly, without having to leave Japan again.

As far as I heard from them, even though I started the process here (although it's all taken place in Japan so far) it shouldn't pose any problem with me getting my status changed. Let's hope so!

[Mulboyne]

....I called the Immigration Bureau in Tokyo and told them my story and what was going on. They said that as long as I bring the C of E with my and my passport, and register in city hall beforehand, that I can change my status without having to leave Japan for a mere $40 and a few extra visits...

I hope you got the name of the person who told you that. I recommend you get that in writing just in case the person you end up meeting has a different interpretation. Immigration is still an art, not a science, If you can show them that you are following advice of someone else in the system then that will help a good deal.

[halfnip]

So, if I understand what you're saying now is that you WILL leave to Japan, go back to the US, pick up your COE and then re-enter and file based on that?

This is different from what you mentioned before. If you had no problems leaving, going back, then re-entering, then there really was no issue to begin with. Your initial post stated that you did not want to stay in the US and wait for your COE, so were looking for other options..

In my opinion returning to the US to pick up your COE (unless this can be mailed to you in Oman) and then entering Japan is the only way (quickly) to get your Visa and if that is what you're planning on doing, then you should have no problems...

Good luck.

[kamome]

I hope you got the name of the person who told you that. I recommend you get that in writing just in case the person you end up meeting has a different interpretation. Immigration is still an art, not a science, If you can show them that you are following advice of someone else in the system then that will help a good deal.

I would be very surprised if any Japanese official would be willing to put their advice in writing.

[Molokidan]

No, my CoE is being sent from the Tokyo Study Center that's sponsoring my program. So I won't have to go back to US, which was one of the things I really didn't want to have to do.

Mulboyne brings up a good point, something I thought of while listening to the lady talk...and I did double-check with a representative from my study center (who emailed me the information) and it seems to be legit. So hopefully this will work. Thanks again.

[ttjereth]

I hope you got the name of the person who told you that. I recommend you get that in writing just in case the person you end up meeting has a different interpretation. Immigration is still an art, not a science, If you can show them that you are following advice of someone else in the system then that will help a good deal.

It doesn't help. When I applied for PR I made sure to both phone and get them to send me a signed email (with the name and position of the person who wrote it clearly stated on the email) with the details on all of the materials I needed to bring to apply. I still took everything I could think of other than what was on the email list and they STILL told me I was missing stuff.

I broke out the email and showed it to the guy giving me a hard time, and pointed out that I had brought everything Yasuda (or whatever it was) told me to, as evidenced by this email, and the guy just flat out said "Well he was wrong, wasn't he?"...

[omae mona]

I broke out the email and showed it to the guy giving me a hard time, and pointed out that I had brought everything Yasuda (or whatever it was) told me to, as evidenced by this email, and the guy just flat out said "Well he was wrong, wasn't he?"...

That's really irritating. I've learned that lots of immigration employees don't know what the hell they're doing. I guess you can't expect other employees to bend rules just because a colleague or subordinate screwed up. But still, it seems excessive. I think the employee confusion stems from so many of the rules being unwritten and fluid from month to month (e.g. what are the PR criteria *this* month??).

My latest experience with dumb immigration staff is at the airport, in the special fingerprinting line with the "automated gate" for people who pre-registered. Last time I approached it, the officer tried to shoo me away until a supervisor noticed the animated discussion and came running over to scold the officer and let me through. I'm not sure what hell the officer thought he was doing - the line was exclusively for automated gate use! Maybe I was his first customer on his first day on the job.

[Gilligan]

It doesn't help. When I applied for PR I made sure to both phone and get them to send me a signed email (with the name and position of the person who wrote it clearly stated on the email) with the details on all of the materials I needed to bring to apply. I still took everything I could think of other than what was on the email list and they STILL told me I was missing stuff.

ttj I can't tell you how many times this has happened to me, except to say, every time. No matter what, whenever I (or my Japanese wife) have called immigration, the DMV, the Japanese passport agency, etc. to find out what is necessary for the desried license etc., they invariably leave out at least 1 important item.

[Samurai_Jerk]

No, my CoE is being sent from the Tokyo Study Center that's sponsoring my program. So I won't have to go back to US, which was one of the things I really didn't want to have to do.

Mulboyne brings up a good point, something I thought of while listening to the lady talk...and I did double-check with a representative from my study center (who emailed me the information) and it seems to be legit. So hopefully this will work. Thanks again.

Dude, if I were you I wouldn't believe it. You are better off just canceling the flight to Oman and staying in the US.

[ttjereth]

That's really irritating. I've learned that lots of immigration employees don't know what the hell they're doing. I guess you can't expect other employees to bend rules just because a colleague or subordinate screwed up. But still, it seems excessive. I think the employee confusion stems from so many of the rules being unwritten and fluid from month to month (e.g. what are the PR criteria *this* month??).

My latest experience with dumb immigration staff is at the airport, in the special fingerprinting line with the "automated gate" for people who pre-registered. Last time I approached it, the officer tried to shoo me away until a supervisor noticed the animated discussion and came running over to scold the officer and let me through. I'm not sure what hell the officer thought he was doing - the line was exclusively for automated gate use! Maybe I was his first customer on his first day on the job.

I don't think it's so much that the first guy who gave me the info screwed up and gave me the wrong info as it is that what you need to take with you differs depending on which desk monkey you get stuck dealing with on a particular visit.

I've even found this when PAYING MY TAXES. One year, the guys will tell me to send in every scrap of paper with a number on it that has so much as passed by me in the previous year, and the then this year they didn't ask for a single extra receipt or anything, and the guy even gave me back a lot of the stuff I took with me (proof of payment for insurance, pension and even all the stuff claimed for business expenses...).

[ttjereth]

ttj I can't tell you how many times this has happened to me, except to say, every time. No matter what, whenever I (or my Japanese wife) have called immigration, the DMV, the Japanese passport agency, etc. to find out what is necessary for the desried license etc., they invariably leave out at least 1 important item.

Same here. That's why I made sure to get it in writing with the guy's name, department and contact info. Still didn't work. Ah well. Now I have PR hopefully all I'll ever have to do is go for the rentry permit once every 5 years.

[Mulboyne]

...Now I have PR hopefully all I'll ever have to do is go for the rentry permit once every 5 years.

Someone on Debito's site claims he had his PR revoked for forgetting to renew his re-entry permit. An anonymous commenter is hardly the most reliable source, mind you.

[ttjereth]

Someone on Debito's site claims he had his PR revoked for forgetting to renew his re-entry permit. An anonymous commenter is hardly the most reliable source, mind you.

I could see it getting revoked if he didn't renew it then left the country, but you don't have to renew it unless you leave. I've let mine lapse when I was on my previous two visa types and I've renewed it early to get it in sync with a visa when switching types, never had a problem. If it lapses, I just go get it renewed before leaving, it's probably the simplest thing to do at immigration (still usually takes me at least 2-3 hours for some reason, but still mostly painless, relatively speaking).

[Greji]

Someone on Debito's site claims he had his PR revoked for forgetting to renew his re-entry permit. An anonymous commenter is hardly the most reliable source, mind you.

Hard to say, but it is possible. You will loose any visa status, including PR if you leave with out a current re-entry permit, or if it expires while you're abroad and you hadn't take steps to renew it before the expiration date (apparently that can be done through an embassy and/or consulate by filing mitigation for having your permit about to expire while you are abroad and not having previously applied in Japan before hand i.e. unexpected extension of foreign travel for business, or personal emergency type reasons).
My usual reasons like being dumb in public, or excessive laziness don't seem to work.

[ttjereth]

Hard to say, but it is possible. You will loose any visa status, including PR if you leave with out a current re-entry permit, or if it expires while you're abroad and you hadn't take steps to renew it before the expiration date (apparently that can be done through an embassy and/or consulate by filing mitigation for having your permit about to expire while you are abroad and not having previously applied in Japan before hand i.e. unexpected extension of foreign travel for business, or personal emergency type reasons).
My usual reasons like being dumb in public, or excessive laziness don't seem to work.

Everytime I've left the country and my reentry permit was anywhere within even say a half a year of expiring the immigration people at the airport have made a point of telling me to make sure I am back in country before it expires (despite the fact that the date on my return ticket and the disembarkation card, which they are literally holding in their hand when they tell me, is well within the "safe" period).

I can understand it being revoked if you let that lapse while out of country or leave without a valid rentry permit, but just letting it lapse in-country has literally no effect.