Tohoku Earthquake, Tsunami and Nuclear Disaster!!!

[Coligny]

Excellent explanation. This should be a sticky.

Yes, but quite disturbing in a sense...

Meanwhile the Japanese have officially refused the proposition of France to send our fleet of nukular disaster intervention robots and operators. We've now passed the line were the pissing contest switch from ridiculous to mildly dangerous with a small drop of ill advised.

Link in french:

http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2011/03/21/97001-20110321FILWWW00530-fukushima-aide-francaise-declinee.php

[Coligny]

I thought you were in Osaka?

You're sure I can't make a yo-mama joke ?

[cstaylor]

Yes, but quite disturbing in a sense...

Meanwhile the Japanese have officially refused the proposition of France to send our fleet of nukular disaster intervention robots and operators. We've now passed the line were the pissing contest switch from ridiculous to mildly dangerous with a small drop of ill advised.

Link in french:

http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2011/03/21/97001-20110321FILWWW00530-fukushima-aide-francaise-declinee.php

Sounds like ira-ira Kan again. I hope everything goes well with the unassisted fleshspace method for taming these reactors, or there will be hell to pay.

As fun as it is to tease the french residents for fleeing Japan, they really weren't needed during this crisis period. Now that specialist equipment is offered, turning the offer down is just stubborness.

[Jack]

:mad2: Sounds like ira-ira Kan again. I hope everything goes well with the unassisted fleshspace method for taming these reactors, or there will be hell to pay.

As fun as it is to tease the french residents for fleeing Japan, they really weren't needed during this crisis period. Now that specialist equipment is offered, turning the offer down is just stubborness.

I'm sure the authorities had a good reason for declining the ofdfer. The article says the robot is not suitable to the conditions at Fukushima. This may be due to the explosions and debris. A robot would be useless if it cannot mover around the debris.

[Coligny]

:mad2: Sounds like ira-ira Kan again. I hope everything goes well with the unassisted fleshspace method for taming these reactors, or there will be hell to pay.

As fun as it is to tease the french residents for doing first what everybody is now doing, they really weren't needed during this crisis period. Now that specialist equipment is offered, turning the offer down is just stubborness.

We got badly burned by the governement coverup during Tchernobyl... fool me once...

[Coligny]

I'm sure the authorities had a good reason for declining the ofdfer. The article says the robot is not suitable to the conditions at Fukushima. This may be due to the explosions and debris. A robot would be useless if it cannot mover around the debris.

It's not Asimo we're sending. We got a full panel ranging from excavators, bulldozer, cranes, firefighting as well as mobile robotic arms for precision operation, all radiation-hardened and remote controlled. Their abilities were modeled after the needs that arised at Tchernobyl.

(Which make me think that somebody is really not trusting our nuke plants)

[Osakadave]

Here's the deal:

Grays (Gy), Sieverts (Sv), and Becquerels (Bq), are all SI units, which will be seen in Japan.

Grays measure energy absorbed per kilogram of mass, Sieverts do the same but adjust for type of radiation and where it is absorbed to try and quantify things in terms more suitable to predicting biological effects. Becquerels describe the number of times per second that nucleus decay occurs, and you can further derive those units over area, mass, or volume. Remember that 1 kg of water is usually a liter, give or take a few mL for density variations.

Rads are basically like grays, but 1 gray is equal to about 100 rads. Rems are basically like sieverts, and 1 sievert is basically 100 rems. Curies are like becquerels, but 1 curie equals 37GBq, or 37 billion becquerels. Roentgens are sort of like rads and grays, but 1 gray = about 115 roentgens.

Anything that says "counts per second" or "counts per minute" is likely just a direct reading off of some type of meter, which is not a direct equivalent to any of the units I've mentioned to this point. The meter has to be calibrated, calculations specific to the meter must be made, etc, before you can get a real number from that other than how many times the meter's probe was hit by something every second.

Pretty good. Just to (hopefully) clarifycounts per second/minute - 1 becquerel equals 1 dps or 60 dpm, and thus theoretically equals 1cps or 60 cpm when everything's taken into account on a counter.

[ttjereth]

Flyjin: my decision to stay in Japan

Here and other places, I have to say I am sort of surprised at the whole bashing people for leaving thing.

People can think whatever the hell they want of me, if things get too bad, me and my (Japanese) family and any friends who decide it would be a good time to finally come see my hometown on an extended stay, are getting the hell out of dodge.

I would find it infinitely stupider to put yourself and your family at risk over pride. Radiation levels are not that high now, but honestly there are very few occasions where unnecessary extra radiation exposure is a good thing.

The only people I can see legitimately being bashed are those who should stay around (like subcontracted foreign engineers at the power plants and such).

But seriously, being home alone and not being able to get a hold of my family at first, then having the first big aftershock hit in the middle of a phone call with my wife who managed to get through to me on a payphone, then not being able to get to where they where or get them home until the next day... all of that was some of the scariest shit I have ever gone through in my life and frankly the entire planet can go get fucked if they think I am going to leave my family here if I think things are too risky just because someone will think less of me.

That doesn't mean I approve of any of the fear mongering or misinformation or panic inducing bullshit, and there's a lot in that article I disagree with, but I don't blame the average person for leaving if they can, whether they are gaijin or Japanese.

And I swear I'll stop adding to this post eventually, but honestly I'm also not sure how much of a right Japan really has to throw around the overreacting blame stick.

I still seem to remember an inability to get American beef and being scanned at airports because of SARS and being forced to wear those stupid medical masks because my normal body temperature was slightly higher than average, etc. etc.

[Not Invented Here]

Pretty good. Just to (hopefully) clarify counts per second/minute - 1 becquerel equals 1 dps or 60 dpm, and thus theoretically equals 1cps or 60 cpm when everything's taken into account on a counter.

Well said.

It should hopefully be clear that whatever data you get has to be interpreted in the context that measurement and calculation are two different steps, and there are a lot of different factors which have to go into the process which furnishes you with reliable numbers.

[Not Invented Here]

Here and other places, I have to say I am sort of surprised at the whole bashing people for leaving thing.

I'd imagine the J-folk who are making the biggest fuss about this are the ones who any other day would be complaining about the foreigners not leaving fast enough.

It's just my own thinking, but the face of the problem is the people caught up in the whole panic groupthink mentality just for the sake of being caught up in something. I mentioned earlier how I got cash almost thrown in my face because someone thought that it was imperative to rescue my girlfriend from Japan, because obviously the entire country is going to be affected. I think that's really where the core of the issue lies: In a self-indulgent disaster fetishism that allows people to escape to their ego, using the suffering of others as an excuse to blow things out of proportion into a context where they can be a 'survivor' or a 'hero'.

Give them a T-shirt, and let them get over themselves.

EDIT: Of course, some of the people railing the hardest against the "deserters" will be other people caught up in their own delusions that they don't have better things to do in an emergency than to dig on the people who for reasons good or bad are leaving.

Disasters make stupid people even more stupid, it's a proven fact.

[ttjereth]

I'd imagine the J-folk who are making the biggest fuss about this are the ones who any other day would be complaining about the foreigners not leaving fast enough.

Possibly, honestly I have my doubts if any actual Japanese are the ones saying it.

If nothing else "flyjin" sounds a bit too clever for the usual quasi-English fad words (Tokyo Sky Tree).

It's just my own thinking, but the face of the problem is the people caught up in the whole panic groupthink mentality just for the sake of being caught up in something. I mentioned earlier how I got cash almost thrown in my face because someone thought that it was imperative to rescue my girlfriend from Japan, because obviously the entire country is going to be affected. I think that's really where the core of the issue lies: In a self-indulgent disaster fetishism that allows people to escape to their ego, using the suffering of others as an excuse to blow things out of proportion into a context where they can be a 'survivor' or a 'hero'.

Give them a T-shirt, and let them get over themselves.

EDIT: Of course, some of the people railing the hardest against the "deserters" will be other people caught up in their own delusions that they don't have better things to do in an emergency than to dig on the people who for reasons good or bad are leaving.

Disasters make stupid people even more stupid, it's a proven fact.

Yeah see, I don't know how many people are really leaving for any disingenuous reasons. They may be overreacting, but I think both here and back home there were just a lot of scared people. If they needed to remove themselves and their families to feel safe, I don't see how that is an issue for anyone else.

There are plenty of people who are saying their particular experience was worse than it was and such, and a lot of that might be trying to justify (even to themselves) their leaving, but I still don't blame them for leaving and I don't blame families back home for wanting them to leave. No matter how low the danger is from the things going on here now, the danger (from these particular threats) is much less back home for the vast majority of foreigners, if they want to leave, that's fine.

I somehow doubt the absence of random (non-working because their company is closed anyway) eikaiwa teacher or whatever is going to affect rescue and relief efforts here, if anything it puts less strain on already strained resources (food, electricity, crowded transportation, etc.).

Some people who have responsibilities (such as nuclear engineers at the plants) and such can reasonably be expected to stay, and any executives or whatever who run off and continue to demand their employees work while they themselves bunker down somewhere are pure cunts, but for the vast majority of people, their leaving doesn't really make a huge negative impact, so why should anyone else care.

I'm in Chiba and what we caught of the quake was, what, thousands? of times less than what people up closer to the epicenter caught, but it still scared the shit out of me (almost literally, I was on the fucking toilet when it first hit:() and it scared the shit out of my Japanese family who were all in Tokyo at the time, and I can't even imagine what is was like for the folks further up north and I hope I never have to experience it.

On top of all that, I'm betting a lot of us were a lot less knowledgeable about radiation 12 days ago then we are now, and I don't blame the average person for deciding to head for the hills rather than trust their safety to their insufficient and still developing understanding of radiation, nuclear plants etc.

If anything I think I've heard a hell of a lot more posturing on the part of people staying behind trying to make themselves sound tougher, or smarter or more noble or whatever, than anyone who has left, with most of those who I know personally being almost apologetic about it, like they need to feel sorry or guilty about worrying their and their families' safety.

Earthquakes and tsunamis and radiation aren't shit you threaten to punch in the nose if it threatens your family, it's shit you run from if you are able, and since it's all stuff a lot of us don't know much about, I don't blame anyone for erring on the side of caution as long as they aren't spreading panic, trampling other people underfoot on their way out, hoarding more supplies than they could ever possibly need and depriving others or causing any other sort of harm.

I agree disasters can make stupid people stupider but they can also make otherwise "smart" people do stupid things, like turn on each other for no good reason at all and draw up imaginary lines between bravery and cowardice, think that their way of thinking is the only way things can/should be done and call each stupid names like "flyjin"

[tone]

any of you guys follow this?

http://www.fastcodesign.com//1663419/is-this-poster-to-aid-japans-tsunami-victims-a-design-crime#disqus_thread

I know I had kind of a reaction to this

And to all of you who are living through this first hand - hat's off to you, what a crazy sittuation

[Yokohammer]

Speaking for the people up north, the only health hazard left to worry about is the nuke plant. The super-quake and tsunami are over and done. If normal physical principles prevail there won't be another one of those for quite a few years. Possibly not in my lifetime. That doesn't mean that Kanto won't have its "big one," which is overdue, but as far as staying in Japan is concerned Tohoku is probably one of the safest places to be right now and for the foreseeable.

I'm a total doofus when it comes to economic issues, but even I understand that the rebuild is going to cause a bit of an economic rise. I'm also hoping that there will jobs for the hundreds of thousands who have lost everything and need to start from scratch.

Of course nothing will bring back the dead, so we just have to get over that and move on.

I hope this doesn't make me sound opportunistic (I mean, I didn't come up here for this), or like I'm trying to be a tough guy, but I wouldn't miss this for the world. Watching and participating in the Tohoku region getting back on its feet is going to be an experience that I'm totally prepared to make a few sacrifices for. Comfort and safety are nice, but only a challenge can light a fire under our collective ass and inspire creative thinking and progress.

I think it'll turn out fine.

I guess that makes me an optimist.

[chan]

This thread should end with ttjereth and yokohammer's excellent last posts.

[Coligny]

This thread should end with ttjereth and yokohammer's excellent last posts.

It's the earthquake reporting thread you genius... You think Japan will suddenly become a non quake zone ?

[dimwit]

This thread should end with ttjereth and yokohammer's excellent last posts.

I think the earthquake thread is in bad need of a splitting and movement out of the Gaijin Ghetto and into Fucked News.

[Yokohammer]

It's the earthquake reporting thread you genius... You think Japan will suddenly become a non quake zone ?

[SIZE="1"]Pssst ... it's just a figure of speech. He doesn't really mean that the thread should end.[/SIZE]

[Yokohammer]

Charlie Brooker on the media coverage of the quake/tsunami and nuke plant fuggup.

[American Oyaji]

Hey. A friend sent me this today and I wanted to know if you guys could help out. I'd prefer a shelter in Hachinohe (canman), but anywhere in Tohoku would be greeat.

Hi ******... FYI, I do some knitting with people and we wanted to start a campaign to send blankets to a shelter in Japan. Do you think you could get an address of a shelter that we could start mailing them to? I figured with your connections you could help with that...

Thanks,

Erin

[FG Lurker]

If anything I think I've heard a hell of a lot more posturing on the part of people staying behind trying to make themselves sound tougher, or smarter or more noble or whatever, than anyone who has left, with most of those who I know personally being almost apologetic about it, like they need to feel sorry or guilty about worrying their and their families' safety.

For me it's a fairly simple equation. If someone is living here temporarily and has no real roots in Japan then seeing them decide to bail when the going gets tough is pretty much expected. It's good for Japan to see this too, it reminds them where people's loyalties are.

When long-term residents who have built lives here bail when things start to get tough... Those people are "fair-weather friends." Can you really trust them to stick by you if things get tough? Would you want to go into business with such a person? I think these are valid questions.

When long-term residents who are located in complete safety 100s of km from the quake or reactors bail then I start to get angry. Lots of people left Kansai due to radiation concerns. Seriously, WTF people!? Idiots.

On a slightly different (but related) note... Many people have said Japan should allow citizens to hold multiple nationalities, and the DPJ even seemed somewhat open to the idea. (One of the few things I thought they had right...) This disaster has shown perfectly why allowing multiple nationalities is a bad idea for the country: When the shit hits the fan you want to make sure your citizens are tied to the country and likely to stick around to help make things right. People who aren't willing to be 100% committed to the country shouldn't hold that country's passport. I doubt the Japanese have missed the "flyjin lesson", I don't think we will see multiple nationality here anytime soon.

[American Oyaji]

I like the way you think Lurk. If I could get TO Japan and have something to do, I'd be on the first thing smoking.

[Catoneinutica]

[ichigo partygirl]

On a slightly different (but related) note... Many people have said Japan should allow citizens to hold multiple nationalities, and the DPJ even seemed somewhat open to the idea. (One of the few things I thought they had right...) This disaster has shown perfectly why allowing multiple nationalities is a bad idea for the country: When the shit hits the fan you want to make sure your citizens are tied to the country and likely to stick around to help make things right. People who aren't willing to be 100% committed to the country shouldn't hold that country's passport. I doubt the Japanese have missed the "flyjin lesson", I don't think we will see multiple nationality here anytime soon.

I would be interested to know the numbers on this from countries who do allow dual-nationalities and have suffered natural disasters on this scale.

Personally I don't think this is a good reason not to allow dual-nationalities. I think people that truly care about Japan and chose to leave now, will eventually come back and help out when it is right for them. If people are forced to stay somewhere they don't want to be, they are less likely to help out or feel positive about their future/contribute to society in any measurable way.

I see what you're saying though. Every person that leaves is one less person that contributes to the economy, and that will be badly needed in the weeks and even years to come.

[matsuki]

LOL at whoever sent me anon (pussy) redsnot for posting that J-girls retarded e-mail to/about the U.S. military. I'm not military and I'm hardly some sort of pro military person but the bitch was slamming them for being useless while they seemed to be better prepared and doing more than Japan could do on it's own.

For anyone that cares, she has since sent numerous apologies, explaining she was not in the right state of mind when she wrote the e-mail and she is not anti-base but was just having a knee-jerk reaction to the voluntary evactuation from the base.

[Mike Oxlong]

[Greji]

LOL at whoever sent me anon (pussy) redsnot for posting that J-girls retarded e-mail to/about the U.S. military. I'm not military and I'm hardly some sort of pro military person but the bitch was slamming them for being useless while they seemed to be better prepared and doing more than Japan could do on it's own.

For anyone that cares, she has since sent numerous apologies, explaining she was not in the right state of mind when she wrote the e-mail and she is not anti-base but was just having a knee-jerk reaction to the voluntary evactuation from the base.

That's a BS shot. Why would they redsnot you for that post? Takes all kind I guess.....

[AML]

If anybody travels bare in mind that its not just cars that cant get gas....

Had to make a stop in Nagoya to fill up and change cabin crew (even tho they didnt actually change...)

It will add an hour or two to your trip. Take care when making connections.

Well im all settled in the swiss alps, enjoying my coffee with fresh goats milk

[American Oyaji]

Anyone got any info for shelters? re: my earlier post.

[Greji]

enjoying my coffee with fresh goats milk

Youse really knows how to hurt a guy, don't ya......

[Iraira]

For anyone that cares, she has since sent numerous apologies, explaining she was not in the right state of mind when she wrote the e-mail and she is not anti-base but was just having a knee-jerk reaction to the voluntary evactuation from the base.

Dude, she'll spread for you...got get it!