UK's NHS the Best in the World and Most Efficient

[Wage Slave]

And guess who was assessed the most expensive and the worst?



The only problem is that the system may be good but the people aren't.

Though the U.K. scored best in most categories, the country ranked second worst after the U.S. in terms of the health of its residents. This was based on factors such as adult and infant mortality rates, receptiveness to medical services and life expectancy at age 60. Citizens of France, Sweden and Switzerland were found to be healthiest overall.

Good at fixing the problems but not good at avoiding them in the first place and I suspect not good at picking them up early enough.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/u-s-health-care-system-ranks-lowest-in-international-survey/

[yanpa]

I wonder how Japan would rank on that.

[Coligny]

I wonder how Japan would rank on that.

You'd better not...

Hint: find a good vet in your area... Might save your life sooner than later...

[Wage Slave]

I'm not sure. I had a look around their site and there is some good information about Japan but no rankings. Massive numbers of hospital beds and MRI scanners compared to other countries. Fewer doctors. Loads more old people. I suspect good at picking up things early and doing something about it quickly.

I suspect less good on efficiency and cost. Probably not bad at all on equity. Certainly good on healthy lives and wait times.

[canman]

As a Canadian, I am surprised at how low our numbers are. We are always being told how great the Canadian system is, but here it is in numbers, and it sucks. Listening to the folks at home talking about six month waits for an MRI is insane. Not sure why we are so low, but I hope this does something to kick the medical system in the ass and get then into a better position.

[Coligny]

I'm not sure. I had a look around their site and there is some good information about Japan but no rankings. Massive numbers of hospital beds and MRI scanners compared to other countries. Fewer doctors. Loads more old people. I suspect good at picking up things early and doing something about it quickly.

I suspect less good on efficiency and cost. Probably not bad at all on equity. Certainly good on healthy lives and wait times.

Mutually exclusive no ?

[Wage Slave]

I'm not sure. I had a look around their site and there is some good information about Japan but no rankings. Massive numbers of hospital beds and MRI scanners compared to other countries. Fewer doctors. Loads more old people. I suspect good at picking up things early and doing something about it quickly.

I suspect less good on efficiency and cost. Probably not bad at all on equity. Certainly good on healthy lives and wait times.

Mutually exclusive no ?

No, not strictly anyway. Lots of other dependent variables I would think. Hospital beds, MRI scanners, testing/diagnostic services off the top of my head.

[Russell]

I always like to read the comments in the Guardian:

The only serious black mark against the NHS was its poor record on keeping people alive.

[Wage Slave]

I always like to read the comments in the Guardian:

The only serious black mark against the NHS was its poor record on keeping people alive.

Yeah. Sad isn't it. No matter how good the health service is, it can't escape the fact that the people more than compensate by being so stupidly unhealthy. Obesity rates near the worst in the world and climbing, binge drinking, drug taking ..... Name any measure of healthy living and the UK populace will be just about the worst - unless you think making reality TV programmes about it counts.

[Russell]

You are aware of the constant criticism in the UK press of the NHS, I hope?

[Wage Slave]

You are aware of the constant criticism in the UK press of the NHS, I hope?

I am aware of a campaign by a right wing press to undermine it on ideological and commercial grounds - yes.

[Coligny]

You are aware of the constant criticism in the UK press of the NHS, I hope?

I am aware of a campaign by a right wing press to undermine it on ideological and commercial grounds - yes.

Come on, you know damn well deep inside yourself that only the magic of the market can make healthcare as great as it is in the USSA...

[Wage Slave]

You are aware of the constant criticism in the UK press of the NHS, I hope?

I am aware of a campaign by a right wing press to undermine it on ideological and commercial grounds - yes.

Come on, you know damn well deep inside yourself that only the magic of the market can make healthcare as great as it is in the USSA...

I once had a long running argument with an simplistic idealogue called Level13 along just those lines. He was convinced, all other evidence aside, that the US did have the very best health service in the world because American researchers won more Nobel Prizes for medicine than any other nation.

[Coligny]

Level3 ?

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=3614

[Wage Slave]

Level3 ?

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=3614

I stand corrected. Most likely.

[Samurai_Jerk]

You are aware of the constant criticism in the UK press of the NHS, I hope?

I am aware of a campaign by a right wing press to undermine it on ideological and commercial grounds - yes.

Come on, you know damn well deep inside yourself that only the magic of the market can make healthcare as great as it is in the USSA...

I once had a long running argument with an simplistic idealogue called Level13 along just those lines. He was convinced, all other evidence aside, that the US did have the very best health service in the world because American researchers won more Nobel Prizes for medicine than any other nation.

I met a young Dutch doctor years ago when I was backpacking in Laos. She said that she had done some research in the US for med school and was amazed by how advanced medicine was there compared to The Netherlands. Her take was it sucked for Americans but the world needed the US to keep fucking its citizens in the name of capitalism so everyone could else could keep benefiting from the advancements made. I think she was only half serious about that.

[Coligny]

From whut I got, in the US:
Research is paid by public funding...
Cost of healthcare fill the pockets of shareholders, lobbyist and marketing agencies...

[Wage Slave]

That is all very credible. The best hospitals are undoubtedly fantastic and lavishly resourced. And it must be true that we all benefit from the expertise and knowhow developed in them. And yeah, it's easy to imagine the rest of us benefit from it more than Americans do themselves.

It reminds me of toadying halfwits in the Daily Mail and elsewhere lauding some zillionaire for saving an artwork for the nation, ignoring the fact that it doesn't matter to me whether it is locked away in a private house in London, Riyadh or Timbuktu.

It's all about access and equity.

[Samurai_Jerk]

That is all very credible. The best hospitals are undoubtedly fantastic and lavishly resourced.

That's where Level3 got confused. The most advanced medical care in the world is available in the US due to cutting-edge research. However, that's not the same as having the best healthcare system. That distinction is apparently too subtle for some to grasp.

[Russell]

David Cameron warned NHS in danger of collapse within five years

The NHS is at breaking point – hard work and dedication alone won't save it

What we should do about the looming NHS crisis

The problem: The NHS is heading for a funding crisis.
Why? Throughout its history, the NHS has enjoyed real-terms funding increases averaging 4% a year. Since 2010 – in line with the coalition's pledge to protect the NHS budget – spending has risen by just enough to cover inflation. While this is generous compared with other areas of public spending, rising costs of treatment, medical advances and an ageing population mean the health budget is under huge pressure. To maintain quality of care, the NHS needs to find £20bn in efficiency savings this parliament. There will be no let-up after the election: based on current projections, NHS England has estimated a potential funding gap of £30bn by 2021. With the NHS heading towards a financial crisis in 2015-16, if not before, questions about funding are increasingly urgent.

[Wage Slave]

Yep, the NHS and every other health system. So, make up your mind time folks. Do you believe that a private, market driven system funded by our good friends in the insurance companies is the most efficient and equitable way of organising things or is it better to have an NHS? Either way it is going to cost more and more that is for sure. People living much longer and rapid progress in medical science guarantees that. Either way there's going to be some rationing - Who do you prefer to be doing it? Profit maximising Insurance companies and hospitals or doctors and medical experts attempting to weigh clinical benefit and cost?

It might at least provide a clear and meaningful choice between the political parties in the UK at the elections next year - Do you want an NHS or do you prefer to go down the American route even though America has discovered it is inefficient, limited and inequitable. Personally, I don't trust insurance companies very far and it amazes me that no-one much has a good word to say for them yet many are prepared to trust them with something as important as healthcare.

[Russell]

Wage Slave, I agree with you that a public health insurance is preferable over a private one.

I did post the links to give some nuance. There is some criticism on the NHS, not only from the right-wing media, but also from papers like the Guardian and the Independent. I think it is good to keep this in mind.

[Wage Slave]

Wage Slave, I agree with you that a public health insurance is preferable over a private one.

I did post the links to give some nuance. There is some criticism on the NHS, not only from the right-wing media, but also from papers like the Guardian and the Independent. I think it is good to keep this in mind.

I couldn't agree more that the NHS is not perfect and I couldn't agree more that there are bits of it that have been appalling and I couldn't agree more that it can and should be continually be improved. I'd even agree that there has been an appalling lack of transparency when things have gone very awry locally. However, none of that means that the whole thing is systemically unsound and so needs to be abandoned in favour of something much more profit driven which is where the right wing and business interests are trying to go.

The articles you linked to don't criticise the NHS - they are pointing out that in order for the NHS to maintain its level of quality it will need significantly more money over the next decade or so. And its good that is being laid out for people in time for them to make an electoral choice. I would also note the UK is far from the only country facing the same escalation of costs.

A criticism of the NHS would be to say that it is inefficient and the money would be better spent with private insurance companies and private clinics/hospitals. There is little to no evidence to show that is true - on the contrary, the US spends far more on healthcare and achieves less.

[yanpa]

NHS chief announces plan to give patients cash to fund their own care
Simon Stevens says giving patients financial control will force health and social care systems to provide better services

Billions of pounds of health service and town hall budgets are to be handed over to the most vulnerable patients to purchase health and social care services in the community, in a dramatic change of policy being unveiled by the NHS's new boss.

Frail elderly people, disabled children and those with serious mental illness or learning disabilities will from next April be offered individual pots of money to spend as they see fit on health and social care services such as carers, physiotherapists and psychotherapy sessions, in an attempt, in part, to keep them out of hospital.

...more...

OK, they're not receiving actual cash, but am I the only one seeing something slightly wrong with the target recipients here?

[Coligny]

OK, they're not receiving actual cash, but am I the only one seeing something slightly wrong with the target recipients here?

Nope

image.jpg

All is good with this plan...