MH370 KUL-PEK

[matsuki]

These are images from the crash site. Warning! Graphic content.

http://i.imgur.com/2Cxy51j.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/nu0ltUG.jpg

This guy was a passenger on the plane, he took a picture of it and posted it on Facebook before they took off. Translation says something like "here is what the plane looks like in case it disappears".

[Coligny]

Time to rename the thread "Everything that goes up must come down"...

[dimwit]

Yet another example of an idiot posting on twitter.

UPDATE: Russian media reported two weeks ago the Russian-backed rebels had taken control of the very anti-aircraft missiles many suspect shot down the passenger plane, killing all 295 on board.

Even worse, the rebel “Defense Minister,” a known Russian agent, claimed credit for the shootdown earlier today.

http://americablog.com/2014/07/passenge ... order.html

[Coligny]

Going to be difficult to top this one....

[legion]

The best thing we can hope for here is the idiots with weapons stop using them.
I find the immediate politicising of the tragedy distasteful. Give an idiot a missile and he will use it. Putin and Hilary should shut the fuck up for a while unless their message is stop shooting.

[Russell]

The best thing we can hope for here is the idiots with weapons stop using them.
I find the immediate politicising of the tragedy distasteful. Give an idiot a missile and he will use it. Putin and Hilary should shut the fuck up for a while unless their message is stop shooting.

THIS +100

And even more so for John "all hell will break loose" McCain.

Fortunately, there are also cool heads. Let's hope they prevail...

The tragedy of flight MH17 must mark final point in Ukraine conflict

The downing of the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine on Thursday catapults the crisis there onto the global agenda.

More than half of the 298 victims were Dutch, with others from Malaysia, Australia, Indonesia, the United Kingdom, Germany, Belgium, Philippines, Canada and New Zealand. At the time of writing, there were still 20 unverified nationalities.

The UN Security Council will meet in New York today. An international investigation has been called for to determine exactly what happened to the flight that crashed en route to Kuala Lumpur from Amsterdam . The story dominates television news all over the world.

Given the realities of continued fighting on the ground, and the very high political stakes involved, the investigation will not prove easy. Yet, even before it has started in earnest, accusations have been made. The possible scenario most widely discussed in the global media is the downing of the plane by Donetsk insurgents.

The story currently gaining the most traction boils down to this: after the Kiev government had moved massively against the separatists, and drove them out of their stronghold in Slavyansk, Russia stepped up cross-border supplies of heavy armaments to the insurgents, in an effort to restore the balance. This has since resulted in the downing of several Ukrainian military aircraft. It is possible the Malaysian Boeing could have been shot by the rebels, by mistake.

Publicly, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has already blamed the Russia-supported separatists, and Russian President Vladimir Putin has put the blame on the Ukrainian government's resumption of the military operation in the east of the country. Actually, these statements may be less contradictory than they appear, but this is small comfort.

Whatever the final result of the investigation, Russia is likely to face a major political and media campaign reminiscent of the 1983 shooting of the Korean Airlines off Sakhalin Island, which ushered in the most dangerous period of the Cold War after the Cuban missile crisis.

The coming Security Council debate is likely to be emotional, and acrimonious. The US Congress may press US President Barack Obama to ramp up the sanctions which he had only announced less than 24 hours before the MH17 tragedy.

The gap between the US and the European Union approaches to anti-Russian sanctions may now narrow. Russia's outreach to Asia beyond China may be compromised. This will put Moscow in a difficult spot, and prompt a reaction on its part.

The only sensible step now would be to stop the fighting in Ukraine immediately and begin a political process, under the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) auspices and led by the US-led "contact group".

The tragic and sudden loss of so many innocent lives should put a final point to the armed conflict. But it may still put the international conflict over Ukraine on a much higher and more dangerous level. The choice is still to be made, but the time is running out fast.

Link

[Taro Toporific]

Some Dutch people living in Japan take that flight. I hope among the dead is nobody I know...

https://twitter.com/hashtag/MH17?src=hash
MH17 passengers:
189 Dutch; 29 Malaysia; 27 Australia; 12 Indonesia; 9 UK, 4 Germany; 4 Belgium; 3 Philippines, 1 Canada; 1 N. Zealand
Expand

[legion]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 13821.html

If this doesn't give pause for thought nothing will. A bunch of people dedicating their careers to saving lives killed by a lack of intelligence.

[Coligny]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/malaysia-airlines-crash-joep-lange-among-up-to-100-aids-researchers-and-activists-on-board-flight-mh17-9613821.html

If this doesn't give pause for thought nothing will. A bunch of people dedicating their careers to saving lives killed by a lack of intelligence.

In a way... Maybe... Even if that's not the first airliner that ends up as collateral damage... But... What happened to "don't put all your eggs in the same basket" ?

[Russell]

Some Dutch people living in Japan take that flight. I hope among the dead is nobody I know...

https://twitter.com/hashtag/MH17?src=hash
MH17 passengers:
189 Dutch; 29 Malaysia; 27 Australia; 12 Indonesia; 9 UK, 4 Germany; 4 Belgium; 3 Philippines, 1 Canada; 1 N. Zealand
Expand

Add to that 3 more Dutch and 1 more UK citizen. That is the final count. One Dutch citizen had double (US-Dutch) nationality.

Here is the passenger list (15 Malaysian crew members not included).

That list really hits me in the face, due to its massiveness.

[Russell]

Final list from Malaysia Airlines of people who perished.

Nationalities: 193 Netherlands, 43 Malaysia, 27 Australia, 12 Indonesia, 10 United Kingdom, 4 Germany, 4 Belgium, 3 Philippines, 1 Canada, 1 New Zealand

There was some confusion over numbers because of double nationalities.

In the mean time there are reports of personal items taken from the dead. Bodies are also being taken by trucks to undisclosed locations. There is growing outrage in the Dutch media about the disrespectful behavior.

[Tsuru]

There is now talk from various sources of taking the crash site by military force. It certainly looks like its time to crack some cossacks' heads.

[Coligny]

As of now... (Well yesterday in fact) the site is fully under Russian rebels control with the blackboxes already on their way to Moscow for tampering analysis...

[Wage Slave]

Although the Separatists' and Russia's attitude is appalling and they couldn't lie straight in bed, they did make one valid point. Why on earth would a civilian airliner choose to fly through the middle of a war zone? Never mind it that the aviation authorities hadn't specifically banned that route, never mind the height it was travelling at - Why on earth would anyone in their right mind fly over the top of a war in a civilian aircraft?

If the answer is to save fuel, then Malaysian Airlines deserve to go bankrupt and they share some of the blame.

[Coligny]

Graphic Warning:

Russian's seems to focus mostly on the wreck, not giving much attention to the corpses that flew all over the countryside.
Must be hell to coordinate that many dump truck to sanitize the crash site...

Pro-Russian fighters in Ukraine:

(shitfaced to say the least)

[Russell]

Although the Separatists' and Russia's attitude is appalling and they couldn't lie straight in bed, they did make one valid point.

OK, so, what was their point again?

That they should punish those civilians that happen to fly over a zone that they want to separate from Ukraine?

[Wage Slave]

Although the Separatists' and Russia's attitude is appalling and they couldn't lie straight in bed, they did make one valid point.

OK, so, what was their point again?

That they should punish those civilians that happen to fly over a zone that they want to separate from Ukraine?

No. But it is not beyond imagination that it was not actually their intention to shoot down a civilian airliner. I would have thought given the earlier comments about peace you would like to think the same. If Malaysian Airlines insist on flying over a war zone then there is an inevitable risk associated with that. That's all.

[kurogane]

Yes to that. I do not mean in any way to blame the passengers or demean the tragedy. Malaysian Airlines officials should be lined up and beaten like that American kid in Singapore was. It is utterly unbelievable that they would choose to fly such a route. That was my first thought on seeing the news. Allowing that they probably didn't know there was a war on in the Ukraine, and don't really know where it is, because they're 62 year old corporate executives (IOW, overpaid retards). The level of organisational incompetence at that company is simply mind boggling. It sounds like it's run by Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dummer. I would say they don't share the blame, they own all of it. The Yooks and Russkies are just drunken cossack scum shooting at anything they see; Malaysian Airlines is a company, if not a national airline. They are completely witless and totally shameless. Surely this must lead to the dissolution of it. My brain hurts.

What a tragedy.

[Russell]

Although the Separatists' and Russia's attitude is appalling and they couldn't lie straight in bed, they did make one valid point.

OK, so, what was their point again?

That they should punish those civilians that happen to fly over a zone that they want to separate from Ukraine?

No. But it is not beyond imagination that it was not actually their intention to shoot down a civilian airliner. I would have thought given the earlier comments about peace you would like to think the same. If Malaysian Airlines insist on flying over a war zone then there is an inevitable risk associated with that. That's all.

Thanks for clearing that up. I read your statement as a kind of justification of shooting this plane down.

Anyway, more people question the wisdom of flying over that war zone.

Two cabin crew swapped shifts so they would not be on the doomed Malaysian airliner downed by a missile in eastern Ukraine, after raising concerns about the safety of flying over the war zone.

Other senior pilots and cabin crew had flagged up fears about the flightpath in the weeks leading up to the tragedy, although Malaysia Airlines last night denied ignoring crew concerns.

Some staff are reported to have refused to fly over the airspace where the passenger airliner was downed because they deemed it to be too volatile and dangerous, especially after two Ukrainian planes, a fighter jet and a transport aircraft, were shot down by rebels.

According to well-placed Malaysia Airlines sources, at least two cabin crew swapped shifts so they would not be on MH17, specifically because they were worried about the flightpath. The Mail on Sunday has been told worried pilots consulted air traffic controllers in Malaysia and also made an informal approach to the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO). But still Malaysia Airlines did not divert the route, unlike other carriers.

British Airways as well as all US airlines, Lufthansa, Air France and Qantas, were already avoiding the war zone in Ukraine, adding an extra 20 minutes’ flight time, and there is growing pressure on Malaysia Airlines to explain why it did not follow suit.

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BTW, KLM also flied over the war zone (because of cost reasons). I do not quite understand this, since they are owned by Air France, who did not fly over this zone.

My comments about peace was based in the hope that all parties would reflect on this tragic accident, and start looking for a peaceful solution.

Now that the dead have been treated in a very disrespectful way, I have no such hope anymore. Looks like those pro-Russian rebels are just a bunch of gangsters...

[Samurai_Jerk]

Although the Separatists' and Russia's attitude is appalling and they couldn't lie straight in bed, they did make one valid point.

OK, so, what was their point again?

That they should punish those civilians that happen to fly over a zone that they want to separate from Ukraine?

No. But it is not beyond imagination that it was not actually their intention to shoot down a civilian airliner. I would have thought given the earlier comments about peace you would like to think the same. If Malaysian Airlines insist on flying over a war zone then there is an inevitable risk associated with that. That's all.

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me but apparently Malaysia flight's chosen route through dangerous hot zone not unusual.

[wangta]

Hear, Hear. You summarise it exactly. Not only was that Malaysian Airlines flight going over a warzone, the same area that other airline companies have avoided since the troubles there turned into actual shooting - it was actually flying fairly low, much lower than any other airline irresponsible enough to go there to save time on their schedule as apparently Malaysian Airlines did.

I also smell a rat although no doubt some of you might put this thinking in the nutty tinfoil hat box.

Putin has been running rings around the inexperienced, great at spouting feelgood slogans with teleprompter, never-should-have-run-for-President-but-did-because-both-other-Democrats-and-Republicans-were-more-incompetent-or-tainted-by-dirty-politics President Obama.

The lurid stories from the western media of the dictator Putin and mafia-run Russia can't get over the fact that Russia is a power that we know relatively little about, its corruption and criminality has its equal in western countries but is more disguised and hypocritical, and Putin's country controls the flow of gas into key European countries thus being able to face down the usual blackmail from the US and its fellow IMF/Bankster lackey western allies.

Recently Russia did a deal with countries such as India and Iran to help distance them from the abuses of power the US engages in whereby countries who don't fall in line with the US economically tend to be the subject of brute military force as shown by a shameless history of economic sabotage and or military invasion by the US.

This tragedy is a great excuse for more war - as a number of economists and politicians in the US have been publicly proclaiming recently, a war would help the US economy. The Ukraine situation also helps to shift focus away from the criminal irresponsibility of Obama's govt's policies in the Middle East - arming jihadists in Syria to attack a government that is secular and protects people of all religions despite its authoritarianism.

The same jihadists that are murdering fellow Muslims as well as Christians in Iraq. And before that it was arming jihadists in Libya who also managed to turn on the American Ambassador in Benghazi and murder him - a fact covered up by American propaganda that proclaimed an anti Muslim video on youtube prompted the attack and murder, propaganda publicly dished out in the media by Prez Odrono.

That was blowback for criminally irresponsible, dangerous playing people off against each other US policy brought to you by the Nobel Peace Prize winner who has ratcheted up the drones and attacks on civilians as well as playing the same games that the neo cons before him did. Except he still gets a pass for it. This whole airline business is business as usual for that cunt and those who 'govern' the US.

[kurogane]

I also smell a rat although no doubt some of you might put this thinking in the nutty tinfoil hat box.

It's hard not to think you're getting a whiff of one, but let us remember some wise words before we start a run on tinfoil: never ascribe to ill intent what can be better explained by stupidity.

I think it might be Twain.

Malaysian Airlines is run by polyester pant wearing 62 year olds that lost their own F'in plane.


EDIT: it's called Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I also smell a rat although no doubt some of you might put this thinking in the nutty tinfoil hat box.

It's hard not to think you're getting a whiff of one, but let us remember some wise words before we start a run on tinfoil: never ascribe to ill intent what can be better explained by stupidity.

I think it might be Twain.

Malaysian Airlines is run by polyester pant wearing 62 year olds that lost their own F'in plane.


EDIT: it's called Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Besides if this were an Obama conspiracy to give The US an excuse to go to war, they'd probably shoot down a plane full of Americans. Or at least one with a few Americans on it.

[wangta]

I don't really disagree with yours and Kurogane's opinions - I'm just mentioning a possibility and the fact in political terms that this could be very useful for Obama and his government (note I didn't attribute to him sole responsibility for the ugly policies his Presidency has been noted for).

His government and supporters have been whipping up anti-Putin-anti-Russian hysteria for some time now especially as Putin has played the US in the way you'd expect such an experienced politician from a country that has experienced both war from outside and immense domestic tragedy in the past century to do against an inexperienced, pseudo-charismatic leader of little substance.

This tragedy can definitely be used as an opportunity against Russia. It just seems too 'convenient' from one perspective, a bit reminiscent of false flags in history although the reality may very well be just that - ruthless separatists holding Ukrainian territory shoot down a civilian airliner that had no business to be in that airspace.

[kurogane]

Yeah, well said. Nice summary of Obama there, too. What a non-hunting dog he turned out to be, even allowing for the craphouse he was left.I admit to being selfish here: I am just trying to keep the price of tinfoil down. I am moving about here and prefer my food warmed in a toaster oven to the sloppy mess you get from a home nuker.

[Russell]

There is now talk from various sources of taking the crash site by military force. It certainly looks like its time to crack some cossacks' heads.

I have also read this in the Dutch media, but I think this is really a very bad idea. It would mean the US and its allies fighting directly against Russia on Ukraine territory, with the potential to escalate into a third world war.

No thanks.

[IparryU]

There is now talk from various sources of taking the crash site by military force. It certainly looks like its time to crack some cossacks' heads.

I have also read this in the Dutch media, but I think this is really a very bad idea. It would mean the US and its allies fighting directly against Russia on Ukraine territory, with the potential to escalate into a third world war.

No thanks.

Malaysia Airlines fucks upa again... Dont want ww3 to start just for this. America will take the opportunity to start a war if given though...

[Russell]

Time to listen to a contrarian opinion...

Mourn the victims... but don't turn one tragedy into a global catastrophe

One thing we should have learned in the past 100 years is that war is hell. We might also have noticed that, once begun, war is hard to stop and often takes shocking turns.

So those who began the current war in Ukraine – the direct cause of the frightful murder of so many innocents on Flight MH17 on Thursday – really have no excuse.

There is no doubt about who they were. In any war, the aggressor is the one who makes the first move into neutral or disputed territory.

And that aggressor was the European Union, which rivals China as the world’s most expansionist power, swallowing countries the way performing seals swallow fish (16 gulped down since 1995).

Ignoring repeated and increasingly urgent warnings from Moscow, the EU – backed by the USA – sought to bring Ukraine into its orbit. It did so through violence and illegality, an armed mob and the overthrow of an elected president.

I warned then that this would lead to terrible conflict. I wrote in March: ‘Having raised hopes that we cannot fulfil, we have awakened the ancient passions of this cruel part of the world – and who knows where our vainglorious folly will now lead?’

Now we see. Largely unreported over the past few months, a filthy little war has been under way in Eastern Ukraine.

Many innocents have died, unnoticed in the West. Neither side has anything to boast of – last Tuesday 11 innocent civilians died in an airstrike on a block of flats in the town of Snizhne, which Ukraine is unconvincingly trying to blame on Russia.

So PLEASE do not be propagandised by Thursday’s horrible slaughter into forgetting what is really going on.

Powerful weapons make it all too easy for people to do stupid, frightful things. Wars make such things hugely more likely to happen.

In September 1983, the Soviet air force, inflamed by Cold War passions and fears, inexcusably massacred 269 people aboard a Korean Airlines 747.

In July 1988, highly trained US Navy experts aboard the cruiser Vincennes, using ultra-modern equipment, moronically mistook an Iranian Airbus, Iran Air Flight 655, for an F-14 Tomcat warplane. They shot the airliner out of the sky, killing 290 innocent people, including 66 children.

All kinds of official untruths were told at the time to excuse this. In October 2001, bungling Ukrainian servicemen on exercise were the main suspects for the destruction of Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 over the Black Sea. Whoever did it, they killed 78 passengers and crew en route from Israel to Novosibirsk – though Ukraine has never officially admitted guilt.

Complex quarrels about blame for such horrors are often never resolved. I am among many who do not believe that Libya had anything to do with the mass murder of those aboard Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie in December 1988, very likely an Iranian-backed retaliation for the Airbus tragedy. All the evidence points to a terror group operating from Syrian-controlled territory, and none points to Libya.

But at the time of the prosecution, we were trying to make friends with Syria, which has since gone back near the top of our enemies list but may soon be our ally again, against the fanatics of Isis. Confused? You should be.

So, let us just mourn the dead and comfort the bereaved, and regret human folly and the wickedness of war. Let us not allow this miserable event to be fanned into a new war. That is what we did almost 100 years ago, and it is about time we learned something from that.

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[matsuki]

All these theories and politics...

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Doesn't appear to be any reasonable explanation from any angle regarding intent so seems just like a bad move on Malaysia Airline's part + monkeys with ballistic weapon and you get this, followed by the political circus on both sides, trying give false meanings to the mess. Liability-wise, Malaysia Airlines needs a non-lube ass spelunking session.

[Coligny]

Hey, at least he didn't start with "I hate to play the devil's advocate"...