12 dead in Paris shooting

[Yokohammer]

So there are two hostage incidents in progress. One with the two brothers who were involved in the Charlie Hebdo shooting, and one with some guy who took a hostage in a kosher food store who might have had nothing to do with the Charlie Hebdo shooting. Getting weirder.


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[Coligny]

Nope, confirmed by police to be linked. (Source french police by way of Al Jazeera)
Some think it's to create a diversion by forcing a split of police ressources.
That would be quite futile... Heck at last resort we still have the Foreign Legion on call...
Same source claim it's in fact the Montrouge shooter.
They are curently locking down the place. Gunman would be Amafi Koulibali and his gf Aïat Goumedine, 2 hostages reported killed /source AFP through Al Jazeera.

[Coligny]

1700 pm Explosion at the Dammartin en goele siege (the brothers), heavy automatic gunfire. Smoke coming out of the building.
Seems they wanted to go in before running out of daylight.

[Coligny]

Apparently simultaneous assault porte de Vincennes, 5 reported explosions no gunfire heard.
Source, live TV broadcast.

[Coligny]

1730 all suspects of both siege reported dead by Al Jazeera. No data on hostages.

[Salty]

12 + 1 + 4.... not counting the three

[Yokohammer]

Sad news about the hostages. Current reports are that they were most likely not killed during the police raid, however credible those reports might be. But the terrorists are dead, and I'm not in the slightest bit sorry about that, just the loss of information they might have been able to provide about other assholes with similar plans.


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[Coligny]

Sad news about the hostages. Current reports are that they were most likely not killed during the police raid, however credible those reports might be. But the terrorists are dead, and I'm not in the slightest bit sorry about that, just the loss of information they might have been able to provide about other assholes with similar plans.


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Because martyrs was just what we needed...

[Yokohammer]

Sad news about the hostages. Current reports are that they were most likely not killed during the police raid, however credible those reports might be. But the terrorists are dead, and I'm not in the slightest bit sorry about that, just the loss of information they might have been able to provide about other assholes with similar plans.


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Because martyrs was just what we needed...

But you can't win either way, can you. Alive they're heroes, dead they're martyrs.

That's the twisted logic of these violent fucktards. No matter what you do they'll find a way to twist it to suit their dogma, and they'll always find a reason to be violent.

[Russell]

So, what happened in that supermarket that 4 hostages died?

It was reported that there were 5 hostages, of which 4 kids. That really hurts to read that news.

Regarding them becoming martyrs, isn't there a way to deny them a decent funeral? Like mixing their ashes with pork meat and menstrual blood, and dump it at the foot of the statue of liberty...

[Russell]

[Russell]

So, what happened in that supermarket that 4 hostages died?

Answering my own question.

Authorities had hijacked the shop's CCTV cameras to watch the unfolding hostage crisis inside, as Coulibaly threatened to murder the men, women and children he had captured if police made a move on the Kouachi brothers.

[...]

Fifteen hostages were freed but four were already dead according to Coulibaly, who told a French television station he had killed them.

So, in effect they freed all hostages that were still alive.

Well done.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Thing is ... the violent ones are just violent people looking for an excuse to be violent. Their religion gives them that, which is why they choose that particular flavour. The violent aspect is already established and it appeals to violent people. All their demands could be met to a "T" but they'd still find something to be offended about that needs to be avenged "with the blood of the infidel".

What a crock. They are violent people, pure and simple.

If the true leaders of a peaceful Islam are out there, they're the ones who need to get off their haunches and make it clear to everyone, worldwide, that those violent people are not true followers of the faith and reject them unequivocally. It could be done, but we're still waiting. The smattering of authoritative Islamic voices denouncing the violence is just too feeble and tentative to carry any real weight.

If it's a war between Islam and everyone else, it cannot be won either way. It has to be "True Islam" pulling "Misguided Islam" into line (I'm being charitable here for a minute). An Islamic Peace Corps, for example? Missions set up worldwide to re-educate the misguided ones in the ways of True Islam?

Seriously ... where's the effort? No central authority?

Gee, d'ya suppose the "central authority" might sort of be supporting all this violence?

I truly pity the peace-loving followers of a religion that can't get its act together enough to establish the ground rules for a peaceful existence in unequivocal terms.

I'm sure there are nutjobs and mercenaries who are attracted to this movement and are just there for the chance to kill but you can't say this is just violent people looking for an excuse to cause death and destruction. These guy have specific religious and political goals.

Shiism has stronger central leaders who interpret Islamic law and could push for this kind of change (That hasn't really worked too well in Iran though). However, there is no central authority in Sunnism which it makes it a lot harder. Al Qaeda, ISIS, The Taliban, and Boko Haram are all Sunni. That being said there are Muslim groups trying to fight extremism but that's often a suicide mission so I don't think you're going to have people signing up en masse to join the cause. There's nothing these assholes hate more than the wrong kind of Muslim and not everybody has balls the size of Malala's.

[legion]

Well the French don't mess around do they.

The criminals were known to the police, makes you wonder how they had access to weapons. Perhaps blanket surveillance of the general populace is a waste of resources better spent elsewhere.

[Russell]

Well the French don't mess around do they.

The criminals were known to the police, makes you wonder how they had access to weapons. Perhaps blanket surveillance of the general populace is a waste of resources better spent elsewhere.

Good point!

[kagemusha]

So, what happened in that supermarket that 4 hostages died?


Regarding them becoming martyrs, isn't there a way to deny them a decent funeral? Like mixing their ashes with pork meat and menstrual blood, and dump it at the foot of the statue of liberty...

Actually a certain European army used to bury some Islamic militants wrapped in pigskin for a body bag back in the 60's. From a religious point of view it is much worse than what you suggested.
But I think since it is a culture war more than a religious one the answer is to stand by what positively defines the western liberal culture and hit them back with a demonstration of ballsy free speech, intolerance for racism and increase demand for secularism in public life.

[Yokohammer]

Thing is ... the violent ones are just violent people looking for an excuse to be violent. Their religion gives them that, which is why they choose that particular flavour. The violent aspect is already established and it appeals to violent people. All their demands could be met to a "T" but they'd still find something to be offended about that needs to be avenged "with the blood of the infidel".

What a crock. They are violent people, pure and simple.

If the true leaders of a peaceful Islam are out there, they're the ones who need to get off their haunches and make it clear to everyone, worldwide, that those violent people are not true followers of the faith and reject them unequivocally. It could be done, but we're still waiting. The smattering of authoritative Islamic voices denouncing the violence is just too feeble and tentative to carry any real weight.

If it's a war between Islam and everyone else, it cannot be won either way. It has to be "True Islam" pulling "Misguided Islam" into line (I'm being charitable here for a minute). An Islamic Peace Corps, for example? Missions set up worldwide to re-educate the misguided ones in the ways of True Islam?

Seriously ... where's the effort? No central authority?

Gee, d'ya suppose the "central authority" might sort of be supporting all this violence?

I truly pity the peace-loving followers of a religion that can't get its act together enough to establish the ground rules for a peaceful existence in unequivocal terms.

I'm sure there are nutjobs and mercenaries who are attracted to this movement and are just there for the chance to kill but you can't say this is just violent people looking for an excuse to cause death and destruction. These guy have specific religious and political goals.

Shiism has stronger central leaders who interpret Islamic law and could push for this kind of change (That hasn't really worked too well in Iran though). However, there is no central authority in Sunnism which it makes it a lot harder. Al Qaeda, ISIS, The Taliban, and Boko Haram are all Sunni. That being said there are Muslim groups trying to fight extremism but that's often a suicide mission so I don't think you're going to have people signing up en masse to join the cause. There's nothing these assholes hate more than the wrong kind of Muslim and not everybody has balls the size of Malala's.

A couple more thoughts ...

When I wrote the first post you quoted above I was thinking more of the people who sign up to fight rather than the architects. Especially the Toms, Dicks, and Harrys who might not even have been born into an Islamic culture but who decided to convert to Islam in order to join the "war." However, when you think about it, whether the goals of the architects are religious or political, if it is their intention to subjugate people through violence then they are violent people.

Part of the "folly of youth" is the all too common tendency to want to join a gang and act tough and hurt people. That's why more advanced societies have developed this thing called "sports" to provide an outlet that can reduce the damage. I'm pretty sure the same non-thinking tendency to violence is what motivates many of the youngsters who participate in this sort of stupidity. Ergo, they are violent people.

As for the second post you quoted, it is my feeling that it's about time True Islam did grow a pair of balls and took positive action to protect the honour and credibility of their religion. Apparently lack of organization is part of the problem there, but while they are being fragmented and disorganised the rest of the world has to step in and attempt to control the situation. That doesn't seem right to me.

[Russell]

So, what happened in that supermarket that 4 hostages died?


Regarding them becoming martyrs, isn't there a way to deny them a decent funeral? Like mixing their ashes with pork meat and menstrual blood, and dump it at the foot of the statue of liberty...

Actually a certain European army used to bury some Islamic militants wrapped in pigskin for a body bag back in the 60's. From a religious point of view it is much worse than what you suggested.
But I think since it is a culture war more than a religious one the answer is to stand by what positively defines the western liberal culture and hit them back with a demonstration of ballsy free speech, intolerance for racism and increase demand for secularism in public life.

Actually, my proposal is not born out of revenge, but to discourage those militants to become martyrs.

A month ago or so it was in the news that what those guys from ISIS fear the most is being killed by a woman, because that would deny them a place in Islamic heaven with heaven-who-knows-how-many virgins. That is why this Kurdish women soldiers are so powerful.

In the same line it would be helpful if it is possible to convince those guys that even if they think they're going to die a "heroic" death, the state will not allow them to have the funeral arrangements they wish to attain their martyrdom.

[kagemusha]

In the same line it would be helpful if it is possible to convince those guys that even if they think they're going to die a "heroic" death, the state will not allow them to have the funeral arrangements they wish to attain their martyrdom.

Yeah, that was the idea in first place but since you are talking about politics disguised as faith there was no problem for their spiritual leaders to come out with a Fatwa promising them heaven no matter what.
The reason the Kurdish lionesses are good is because they are supported by Israel (training) and fighting for their home and their lives, the rest is nothing but romantic war stories.

[Wage Slave]

[Samurai_Jerk]

Which terrorist organization is Holly Fisher affiliated with?

[Yokohammer]

Meanwhile in Saudi Arabia ...

Saudi blogger Raif Badawi was sentenced to 10 years in prison and 1000 lashes in front of al-Jafali mosque in Jeddah for "insulting Islam" on the internet. His sentence began on Friday. The sentence amounts to torture.

Torture of Saudi blogger sentenced to 10 years and 1,000 lashes begins

[Wage Slave]

Yeah, that really is disgusting. Saudi Arabia - An absolute monarchy that tolerates no dissent underpinned by theocracy and American expertise, military might and personnel. You could hardly make it up.

[Russell]

It seems he will get 50 lashes every week Friday.

I can't wait until the oil runs out in those regions...

[Wage Slave]

Which terrorist organization is Holly Fisher affiliated with?

The Tea Party? Infowars? Or some violent right to life group or another. They are not so different - Geddit?

[Coligny]

Ok, it's not over, Hayat Boumedienne escapped and is armed. Considered dangerous.

image.jpg

Shoot or shoot. Then call municipal street sweepers.

All the male perpetrators met in prison...

[Samurai_Jerk]

Which terrorist organization is Holly Fisher affiliated with?

The Tea Party? Infowars? Or some violent right to life group or another. They are not so different - Geddit?

Are you trolling or are you really that dishonest?

[Samurai_Jerk]

Ok, it's not over, Hayat Boumedienne escapped and is armed. Considered dangerous.

image.jpg

Shoot or shoot. Then call municipal street sweepers.

All the male perpetrators met in prison...

She's kind of cute. Her bikini pic is unfortunately low resolution.

[Coligny]

Word from one of the resident of Dammartin en goele:

"They killed 12 journalists but finally died in a printing shop"

[Wage Slave]

Which terrorist organization is Holly Fisher affiliated with?

The Tea Party? Infowars? Or some violent right to life group or another. They are not so different - Geddit?

Are you trolling or are you really that dishonest?

You remind me a lot of Captain Natey. Must reread that war book - it's been a long time.