Old abused engine care

[Mike Oxlong]

New lemur - some say punching above my weight.

Long story short...been at least a year, probably longer since the last oil change on her car. It's about seven years old, kei, and had roughly two oil changes a year if she can be believed. Old oil was like clumps of gel in the parts that didn't drain well.

Did an oil/filter change, but wondering about problems. No doubt narrow places have gelled oil stuck in there, and flow is not that good. What, if anything can/should be done?

[Phoenix_stu]

What, if anything can/should be done?

Take away your right to own a car! geeeesh!

[Mike Oxlong]

What, if anything can/should be done?

Take away your right to own a car! geeeesh!

Yes, I agree it's not the proper way to treat a motor vehicle. IMO, the lemur was part unaware, and part unable to invest in the proper care and maintenance of her ride. Now that I'm on the scene, I'd like to do what I can to assist in rectifying what was overlooked. Suggestions appreciated.

[Tsuru]

If there are clumps of gel in the oil you are getting out of the sump the head is likely all sludged up. No valves clattering? I find it hard to believe the oil has even changed at all since new if it is as you say.

The only surefire way is to drop the sump and lift the valve cover and clean everything out manually. Being a K-car it probably does not have a timing chain that also needs cleaning. There are ways of cleaning it with shit like seafoam or other types of snakeoil that require zero effort, but the safest way is to clean it the old fashioned way. Then afterwards change the oil a couple of times every 2000 miles or so to flush all the crap out which was stuck in the lines and bearings that you couldn't get to.

Or trade it in.

[Coligny]

Black or white sludge ?

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

(dun't be like a japanese doctor, fix the source, not the symptoms...)

[Mike Oxlong]

Thanks for the replies.

Black sludge...

Near as I can figure, things got very difficult for her in early 2012, and that's the latest the car probably received any semblance of proper care and attention.

[wuchan]

model would be a bit helpful.....


7yo, can't be anything cool. Chances are I have spent more in one night in a bar than the car is worth. Get some oil and gas treatment from autobachs, put them in, run around town for a day. Go to the coin wash and spray down the entire engine bay and change the oil again. Then trade that fucked piece of shit for a new or newer kei death trap.

[Coligny]

I think you'r missing the financial part...

[wuchan]

if she aint got 20 man in the bank she should get her ass into a danchi. If she is already in a danchi and don't have 20 man, she doin' it wrong.

[matsuki]

I wouldn't even mess with that thing...sell it and start anew. I don't even want to imagine what it costs to break down far from home in this country.

[Coligny]

Towing provision in insurance contracts actually do help in this case...

[Mike Oxlong]

Wow. Just wow. Another "friend", another car without an oil change since month 12 of H25. Coincidentally same make and model of car, but newer. WTF?!

The older car is still chugging along fine, AFAIK. The newer one had the clattering valves Tsuru wondered about. With the older one, we had the music loud and talked so much I may have missed the sound if it was present. Out and about on my own in the newer car it was apparent right away.

[Coligny]

I ran Meatball without warming the engine today...
I think the diesel clatter scared away half of the street cats of the neighborhood...
(Not exactly a babe magnet either)

[Tsuru]

I was just wondering: does Japan still have any of those service stations where you can have your oil changed from the top in less than 5 minutes while your car is being filled up?

[Mike Oxlong]

Last time I saw one of those was at the DIY centre nearby. Older, smaller store, but the closest.

[Wage Slave]

Black or white sludge ?

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

(dun't be like a japanese doctor, fix the source, not the symptoms...)

Interesting. And a bit mysterious.

Black sludge - It can set in even when the oil isn't very old or overdue for change. Toyota engines of a certain vintage get a mention as being vulnerable. I did once come across this - I noticed SiL's Noah had a bit too much top end clatter for my liking and as she was due to take us on a 4 hour drive to the airport in it I had a look. And yep, there was some black sludge. The local garage put an oil change in it with some additive and ran it a bit. Drained it then put in fresh oil. It was fine but a close call and SiL was adamant that the oil had been changed by Toyota less than 12 months previously. It should have been OK.

Incidentally, does anyone follow the local recommendation and change their oil every 6 months or do you all follow the manufacturer's spec which is once a year or 15k or so. If I were doing 10k or more I would change the filter every year but as I do less than half that I change it every two years. I forget what the local logic on that is but they are constantly telling me it isn't really necessary.

[Yokohammer]

Oil change guidelines seem to vary quite a lot. For my Honda Stream it's every 5K. But for my BMW Z4 it's 20K or 2 years (but I do it at 10K or less). The BMW oil is quite a bit more expensive though.

Whatever ... oil changes are one of those boring little must-dos that should be taken seriously.Not worth crapping out a perfectly good engine because you couldn't be arsed to change the oil.

[Wage Slave]

Absolutely. Every six months, which is what the trade pushes for, is OTT though. I just change it every year and given I don't manage 5k, the filter every two years.

[Mike Oxlong]

What is the oil capacity for your vehicles, Hammer? I wonder if the Beemer is something like 8 quarts vs the Honda's four or so. It also seems that synthetic oil lasts quite a bit longer than regular oil.

[Wage Slave]

Just looked up my Honda Fit. 20k or twelve months. Filter the same but I reckon it isn't as vulnerable to age as the oil - usage is more important.

[Yokohammer]

What is the oil capacity for your vehicles, Hammer? I wonder if the Beemer is something like 8 quarts vs the Honda's four or so. It also seems that synthetic oil lasts quite a bit longer than regular oil.

That could be part of it. A cursory check tells me that the Bimmer holds about 6.6 liters (7 quarts) while the Honda holds around 4.2 liters. It's a straight six vs. a straight four too. But BMW boasts about how their engines are designed so that the oil doesn't get dirty as it does in other engines, or something like that, but they do require a specific type of oil (Castrol something-or-other, I think) which actually is more expensive that the stuff Honda uses.

[Mike Oxlong]

A little further inquiry seems to indicate that Daihatsu recommends synthetic or equivalent oil, while the changes occurring every year or 18 months were using the cheapest Yellow Hat or equivalent. Probably why the stuff didn't handle the abuse. Looks to make a major difference.

[Wage Slave]

Synthetic oil may well help - It seems to be something about some engines breaking normal oil down. Given Daihatsu are part of Toyota and keis spend their lives at higher revs they would seem more vulnerable. My Suzuki Wagon R doesn't get anything special but then again it does less than 3k a year. I really wish I could get rid of it but it's a loaner.

Anyhow, from Coligny's link

There's a snappy new moniker for Black Death now: sludge. The cause is the same as Black Death and it seems to be regardless of maintenance or mileage.

{snip}

For their part, Toyota have the dubious honour of having the most complaints about sludge buildup in their engines - over 5,000 in 2008 alone. At the time of writing there is a class action suit going on against them. Details can be found at www.oilgelsettlement.com

[Russell]

Once I wanted to bring my old man to the airport, but the oil indicator of my Honda STEPWGN blinked. Turned out I was very low on oil, and it would be irresponsible to drive 2 hours with it (and 2 hours back). Normally, I change oil regularly (every 5000-10000 km), but somehow it fell through this time. So what to do when it is 6 'o clock in the morning and all shops are closed?

Fortunately, I was still close to home, and took my other car (kei Honda Life), with the explicit instructions to the Missus not to use our STEPWGN until I would return.

Way and beyond, she did use it, but "only for a small distance".

Fortunately, my engine survived, but afterwards I put some new oil in it, and slowly drove it to Autobags to renew the oil and the filter. I did not experience bad aftereffects.

[Tsuru]

Black or white sludge ?

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

(dun't be like a japanese doctor, fix the source, not the symptoms...)

Interesting. And a bit mysterious.

Black sludge - It can set in even when the oil isn't very old or overdue for change. Toyota engines of a certain vintage get a mention as being vulnerable. I did once come across this - I noticed SiL's Noah had a bit too much top end clatter for my liking and as she was due to take us on a 4 hour drive to the airport in it I had a look. And yep, there was some black sludge. The local garage put an oil change in it with some additive and ran it a bit. Drained it then put in fresh oil. It was fine but a close call and SiL was adamant that the oil had been changed by Toyota less than 12 months previously. It should have been OK.

Incidentally, does anyone follow the local recommendation and change their oil every 6 months or do you all follow the manufacturer's spec which is once a year or 15k or so. If I were doing 10k or more I would change the filter every year but as I do less than half that I change it every two years. I forget what the local logic on that is but they are constantly telling me it isn't really necessary.

Black sludge can be caused by a variety of factors... engine design, fuel quality, oil quality, never driving long enough distances to warm the oil through, oil getting too hot in turbochargers, whatever. My car (no not that one.... one from the other Swedish car company which had the enormous turbos) has a reputation for being sensitive for black sludge, and as such I only use high quality full synth every 20k and do all of the oil changes myself at a DIY shop. I have developed some mild trust issues when it comes to garages doing stuff to my car a few years ago, you see.

I have been told never to fuel up with Texaco as there was apparently a lawsuit in the states where some dealerships figured out that most of the customers which had engines fudge up were Texaco regulars. Of course they tried to do everything in their power to stop that from getting out, but independent tests have shown that their fuels are some of the most contaminated on the market in Europe.

Never ever ever drive or even run the engine with your oil indicator on. Oil pressure is to an engine what blood pressure is to a vertebrate: the light comes on when there is none, and all of the bearings in the engine are no longer being lubricated. In that way it's almost literally like having a stroke or a coronary: it always does damage even though it may not be immediately apparent. I always keep an extra 1l bottle in the trunk just in case.

[Coligny]

Side question... Have you considered using a turbo timer at shutdown ?
VW/Audi drivers seems to enjoy them...

[Tsuru]

I don't care much for VAG or its fanbois, sorry... I prefer to use my ears, eyes and engineering spidey senses instead.

[Russell]

Never ever ever drive or even run the engine with your oil indicator on. Oil pressure is to an engine what blood pressure is to a vertebrate: the light comes on when there is none, and all of the bearings in the engine are no longer being lubricated. In that way it's almost literally like having a stroke or a coronary: it always does damage even though it may not be immediately apparent. I always keep an extra 1l bottle in the trunk just in case.

Yep, but the Missus didn't care. It was some 2 years ago and no problems have emerged since, so probably OK. But yes, nowadays I do have a bottle of spare oil in the trunk.

[Coligny]

Well, it was more aboot turbo cooling after engine shutdown than fanboyism...

For the others:
Issue especially on 2000' 1.8T for VAG, after shutdown the engine cooling just stop, with turbo still hot (since it was a small one to make up for displacement at lower rev it was kicking early and therefore always be on the warmer side even for supermarket runs). Sooo that meant that you had a engine bay working like a dutch oven. The timer is used to idle a bit a shutdown to allow for some cooling.
It's not a factory option because it ruins the mpg rating... And these days with idle stop it might be quite a mess to install...

[Coligny]

Never ever ever drive or even run the engine with your oil indicator on. Oil pressure is to an engine what blood pressure is to a vertebrate: the light comes on when there is none, and all of the bearings in the engine are no longer being lubricated. In that way it's almost literally like having a stroke or a coronary: it always does damage even though it may not be immediately apparent. I always keep an extra 1l bottle in the trunk just in case.

Yep, but the Missus didn't care. It was some 2 years ago and no problems have emerged since, so probably OK. But yes, nowadays I do have a bottle of spare oil in the trunk.

When I was a kitteh you always had a place in the engine bay to keep a spare oil can or you could use it to keep your (metal) bento (well... Gamelle here) box warm for lunch.

Except in the Renault 20 ( fitted with a straight 4 for but designed for a PRV V6) where you could keep several cooking pot and also prepare some coffee...
The Renault 14 had the originality to keep the spare wheel there too...