WBC isn't Boxing Anymore

[Captain Japan]

I went to the US-Mexico game. I think the US team should be sent to their rooms. What a boring squad! Chipper had a nice hit. So did Francouer. But I don't think Jeter got the ball out of the infield, Young popped out at least twice, A-Rod was robbed by a nice play in right but aside from that didn't do anything, Griffey had a dink hit and nothing else. The team was basically asleep! In the final inning the US got two runners on through walks and Wells ended it on a dp grounder. Fitting ending! I'd say 2/3 of the crowd was pulling for Mexico. They all went absolutely bonkers when 1B Gonzalez gloved the low throw from Cantu.

Clemens started off with his velocity down a bit (or so it seemed) but he picked it up real quick. Overall I think he looked real good.

I was driving passed the stadium for the Japan-Korea game the night before and tried to see about getting in without a ticket during the 7th inning, when it was all tied 0-0. All the gates had attendants so it didn't work out. A TV crew from Korea interviewed me outside the ticket office. (Anyone see an American on Korean TV talking about Choi's 3-run homer against the US? Didn't think so...) Anyway, the TV crew didn't have any tickets either so I just got back on the freeway.

[GuyJean]

Thanks for the recap, Captain! (Or, make that a re-Capt.).. Was there a difference in fan-passion? Anything noticeably different from an MLB game? Do you think they manage/play the game differently with the 1-game series?

GJ

[Greji]

I went to the US-Mexico game

Capt'n did you see the alledged Mexican team's Homerun, or was it a ground rule double, or a missed red hot thrown to a fan, or whatever the call was?

My J-staff are literally dancing with glee, screaming that this proves the umpires were pro-USA and anti-Japan!

[Captain Japan]

Thanks for the recap, Captain! (Or, make that a re-Capt.).. Was there a difference in fan-passion? Anything noticeably different from an MLB game? Do you think they manage/play the game differently with the 1-game series?

GJ

Outside the Korea-Japan game I could really hear the Korean crowd getting into it. Later I caught the final inning on TV and it was really amazing to see how often the Koreans booed when a Japanese flag was raised. Serious animosity. The Korean population in the LA area is huge and they outnumbered the Japanese considerably.

Tonight the Mexican crowd was really into the game - and they were out in force, partying it up in the parking lots before and after. They were basically out of it before the game started yet they were stuck on every pitch. We Americans didn't really seem too worried about much aside from the taste of our beer (which by the way is absolutely horrible and at Angel Stadium of Anaheim, or whatever its called now) and the quickest way to get out of the parking lot (for which I concluded there is not one).

Some Americans were into it, holding flags and wearing red, white, and blue and whatnot. But generally we didn't offer much support.

I think the problem the US had is that they are just an All-Star team. They didn't have a good leadoff hitter. Jeter and Young are ok but a guy like Juan Pierre or even Damon would have been better at getting something started.

I remember in the first inning when number-two-hitter Cantu bunted into a dp. I commented to my friend that a guy like that should be hitting further down in the lineup because he can drive in a ton of runs. In his next at-bat he singled in Mexico's first run. So what do I know? Well, for one, the US didn't have that sort of clutch hitting. From the two-slot Jeter grounded out three times and struck out.

And what happened to Mark Teixeira? Yikes.

[Captain Japan]

Capt'n did you see the alledged Mexican team's Homerun, or was it a ground rule double, or a missed red hot thrown to a fan, or what ever the call was?

My J-staff are literally dancing with glee, screaming that this proves the umpires were pro-USA and anti-Japan!

I was sitting about twenty rows back of third base. From that angle it was hard to see when everyone stood up as the ball was coming down. But the ball bounced back about 70 feet! If it hit a fan it would have fallen on the warning track. If it hit the wall it would have maybe bounced back 15 feet. But in seeing how far it went back towards the infield it had to have hit something pretty hard (maybe like someone's forehead - don't joke I saw a lady in Milwaukee get pegged right above her nose while trying to catch a home run in the right field bleachers). So to me it was obvious it hit the pole. And in just watching ESPN, it indeed hit about 10 feet up on the pole.

[Mulboyne]

Isn't that often a problem with pro-sports players when they are asked to play as a US team? I can't remember all the details but we've seen US teams that look great on paper come up short in ice hockey, basketball, baseball and golf (Ryder Cup). Often, the public or the management seem to believe that they have enough individual skill to carry the day whereas their opponents work hard to come up with a style of play which will suit them. And they also analyze weaknesses of the US team (which is easier to do since there is usually so much video footage).

Perhaps part of the problem is that international team tournaments don't bring out the best in the players because they don't rank ahead of the domestic championships for status. This is obviously different for a number of individual events like athletics, tennis and tournament golf.

Interestingly, world football is facing something similar. The FIFA World Cup is still an enormous event with bragging rights for the winners but the standard of play in the 2002 event was generally poor. Teams like South Korea and Turkey, who had lower overall skill levels, did well because they gelled better as teams and had practised more with each other. This was also apparent in the last European Championship when unfancied Greece won the cup. As money has gushed into football, more club managers and owners are reluctant to release their best players for national team practices and events (just as Steinbrenner has complained about the WBC). This was very noticeable when European club teams tried to prevent their players appearing in the African Cup. Officially, all clubs are obliged to release players but there is often a friendly doctor around to say that a player is "recovering from injury".

[dimwit]

Some interesting comments about that are reported at MLB.com

1 -- This wasn't necessarily America's best pitching staff. No Randy Johnson. No NL Cy Young Award winner Chris Carpenter. No consecutive 20-game winner Roy Oswalt. The experience and guile of Future Hall of Famer Greg Maddux could only have helped. Billy Wagner and C.C. Sabathia were late defections. These are only examples. You can add your own outstanding American pitchers who were not on hand. Everybody had his own reasons for not showing up, but this was not the best pitching that America had to offer

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article_perspectives.jsp?ymd=20060316&content_id=1353092&vkey=perspectives&fext=.jsp

[AssKissinger]

Great posts CJ. I wish I could have joined you at that game!

IMO, neither NBA nor MLB really represents the best in the world. Now it's official with MLB and it was made official in the Olympics for our basketball. This year more than ever The World Series will be a misnomer. We just lost the real world series. This year in the Winter Olympics more countries won medals than ever before. It goes to show that all the hype, Nike commercials, high salaries and so on don't make you a better athlete. Sports are settled during the games.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=A9htd1usqhpEZggAkw4RvLYF?slug=jp-wbc031606&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Then came Wells' double play, and more telling than anything was the United States' reaction. The players stood in the dugout, their feet seemingly cemented to the floor, looks of shock plastered to their faces. Martinez shook his head once and embodied the team's stoicism.

Venezuelan players cried when they lost to the Dominican Republic, which plays Cuba in the semifinals and will take on the winner of Korea and Japan. Ichiro Suzuki, thinking Japan was eliminated following its loss to Korea, let out a primal scream.

The WBC mattered to everyone else.

To the United States, it served as a warning sign.

Baseball around the world isn't catching up. It has caught up and, in some cases, passed the country that invented the game.

[kamome]

For pro players, it's all about the money and nothing else. I remember reading Bill Simmons on ESPN.com commenting on Damon's defection to the Yankees. He wasn't pissed nor was he surprised. It's just that all the players care about is $$$ - there's no loyalty to any team or any cause. So when you see US teams with tons of individual talent, I think they may be there more for individual glory/cash and the team element suffers. This is especially true for USA basketball, but I suppose it showed in the WBC as well.

[canman]

" Korea pitcher Myung Hwan Park has tested positive for a banned substance and is disqualified from the World Baseball Classic,"
I wonder if this will have any effect on the Korean team. Or at least it will give Japan an excuse if they get beaten three times in a row!

[Greji]

" Korea pitcher Myung Hwan Park has tested positive for a banned substance and is disqualified from the World Baseball Classic,"
I wonder if this will have any effect on the Korean team. Or at least it will give Japan an excuse if they get beaten three times in a row!

Isn't that the guy that got banned or kicked out of a game in the K-pro leagues for having cabbage (probably kimichi) in his hat to stay cool?

[Greji]

Cuba pitchers shut down the Dominican power to win 3-1 playing GJ's "small ball"!

[homesweethome]

Umpire-manager arguments lost in translation

Aside from that nagging little detail of the United States failing to reach the semifinals, the initial World Baseball Classic has been a great success. But next time around, we simply must have more umpires from around the world.

Japan manager Sadaharu Oh, left, and umpire Bob Davidson weren't speaking the same language, literally and figuratively.I'm not saying this because there is an impression of impropriety when most of the umpires are from one country. Nor am I talking about the lack of competence when major-league umpires aren't used. No, what I'm talking about is how mostly English-speaking crews prevent managers from arguing with the umpires effectively.

Arguing with the umpire is one of the great traditions of managing. But how can you do it when you don't know how to say "Are you blind or just incompetent?" in a language he understands? Japan manager Sadaharu Oh, in particular, was at a comical disadvantage in the U.S.-Japan game when complaining after Bob Davidson ruled that Tsuyoshi Nishioka left third base too early.

Oh was having a Lou Piniella-caliber nut-out (justifiably so), and the poor interpreter was trying to translate his case into English as best he could. I can't say for sure, but I imagine some subtle points of Oh's points were lost in translation ...

[OH SHOUTS INSULTING DESCRIPTIONS OF DAVIDSON'S ANCESTRY INTO HIS FACE]

TRANSLATOR: "Oh-san respectfully inquires how your family is doing, particularly your mother."

[DAVIDSON SHOUTS BACK INTO OH'S FACE]

TRANSLATOR: "Davidson-san says his family is fine but worries that Oh-san seems overly agitated and may be suffering from jet lag after such a long flight. He suggests that perhaps a seat in the dugout could prove most refreshing to body and spirit."

[OH HANDS DAVIDSON A PAIR OF EYEGLASSES]

TRANSLATOR: "Oh-san says he is reminded by the recent passing of Kirby Puckett that glaucoma is the silent thief of vision, and he respectfully wonders when was the last time Davidson-san had a glaucoma test."

[DAVIDSON SHOUTS BACK IN OH'S FACE]

TRANSLATOR: "Davidson-san thanks Oh-san for his concern and assures him that he has recently received full optometric care. Davidson-san also does not think it is a good thing for Oh-san to strain his voice."

[OH KICKS DIRT ON DAVIDSON'S SHOES]



Al Bello/Getty Images
Cuba manager Higinio Velez wasn't around long enough to see his team beat Puerto Rico and advance to the semifinals.TRANSLATOR: "Oh-san would like to know where Davidson-san purchases his fine leather shoes and wonders how they are able to maintain a shine in such dirty conditions."

[DAVIDSON SHOUTS BACK IN OH'S FACE]

TRANSLATOR: "Davidson-san says they are Bruno Magli but respectfully worries about Oh-san's blood pressure."

[OH SPITS IN DAVIDSON'S FACE]

TRANSLATOR: "Oh-san says it has been quite a warm day for so early in the spring and wonders whether Davidson-san is thirsty."

[DAVIDSON SHOUTS BACK IN OH'S FACE]

TRANSLATOR: "Davidson-san agrees it is warm and respectfully advises Oh-san to ration his liquids."

[OH YANKS THIRD BASE OUT OF THE GROUND AND FLINGS IT INTO LEFT FIELD]

TRANSLATOR: "Oh-san is very appreciative of the warmth and generosity America has bestowed and says the World Baseball Classic is a truly fine event that should be continued and thanks all the participants and officials who made this opportunity for so many nations to meet in what former commissioner A. Bartlett Giamatti referred to as the green cathedrals of the mind. However, Oh-san respectfully suggests that perhaps the ground crew could have been more attentive to their work."

[DAVIDSON GIVES OH THE THUMB]

TRANSLATOR: "Davidson-san says 'Sayonara' and wishes Oh-san a safe flight home after the WBC."

Linguistically handicapped, Oh lost the argument and Japan lost the game. But Cuba manager Higinio Velez had it even worse. A woman in a T-shirt tried desperately to translate for him during the Cuba-Puerto Rico game, and Velez wound up getting ejected. The question is whether his ejection was due to faulty translation or superb translation.

This arrangement must be changed. The next WBC not only needs the world's best umpires; there also must be at least one umpire at each game who speaks the same language of any non-English speaking manager.

Although, admittedly, most words used in such arguments are universally understood if unprintable.

[Blah Pete]

Was really small ball. The announcers said you could catch all three of the run scoring hits without a glove...

[GuyJean]

Japan pulls ahead of Korea 4-0 in the top of the seventh.. The Kim-Chee Nabe starts to boil..

GJ

[IkemenTommy]

Dude, what is going on with the Korea game?
Japan is killing them 4-0 in the 7th and this is going to be a sweet blowout.

[Captain Japan]

Interestingly, world football is facing something similar. The FIFA World Cup is still an enormous event with bragging rights for the winners but the standard of play in the 2002 event was generally poor. Teams like South Korea and Turkey, who had lower overall skill levels, did well because they gelled better as teams and had practised more with each other. This was also apparent in the last European Championship when unfancied Greece won the cup. As money has gushed into football, more club managers and owners are reluctant to release their best players for national team practices and events (just as Steinbrenner has complained about the WBC). This was very noticeable when European club teams tried to prevent their players appearing in the African Cup. Officially, all clubs are obliged to release players but there is often a friendly doctor around to say that a player is "recovering from injury".

There were a lot of players from quite a few countries who sat out the WBC. But the US just looked tired. It is more or less spring training for them. A lot of the Latin American players played winter ball. I think that was a big difference.

As far as the early US elimination hurting the WBC, I don't think it'll be huge. Because a large percentage of the players are on MLB clubs I think there will be a large following stateside no matter what the US does.

I have the Japan-Korea game on now. Looks like Japan will advance. That should make for an interesting game with Cuba.

[Greji]

I have the Japan-Korea game on now. Looks like Japan will advance. That should make for an interesting game with Cuba.

On the money Cpt'n. Japan 6 - Korea - 0. Looks like the third time is in fact, the charm! BTW Otsuka struck out three out of the four he faced. They haven't said much about him as the closer!

[dimwit]

Yeah Japanese TV does it again. In the bottom of the ninth they switch from the game to some womens golf tournament which I am sure just about no one will watch.

[IkemenTommy]

They didn't have a choice. The game got delayed because of the rain. The TV stations need to suck up to the mighty advertisers too. Yeah golf blows, especially the ladies.

[dimwit]

And where would they normally be making more advertising bucks. On a game half the country is watching or a golf tournament where the sponsor is probably about the only one who cares?

[Blah Pete]

Yeah Japanese TV does it again. In the bottom of the ninth they switch from the game to some womens golf tournament which I am sure just about no one will watch.

On J Sports (cable) they kept it live through the whole rain delay. But they kept playing the SAME song over and over and over and over until the rain delay stopped.
They also had a live mic on and you could hear the Koreans doing their
"Dae Han Min Guk" cheer. Once in a while they would cut the mic off then a few minutes later it would come back on.

J-Sports had the feed from ESPN so English on the 2nd channel which is way better than listening to Japanese announcers.

[AssKissinger]

Yeah Japanese TV does it again. In the bottom of the ninth they switch from the game to some womens golf tournament which I am sure just about no one will watch.

They didn't have a choice. The game got delayed because of the rain. The TV stations need to suck up to the mighty advertisers too. Yeah golf blows, especially the ladies.

But even America doesn't do that. That is so awful. That is one of those things that I was never able to forgive Japan for. I always held that against the country. That and the fucking ATM's.

Anyway, nice to see Korea take a beatdown.

[Greji]

The saga continues. Japan leads Cuba 6 to 1 in the bottom of the 5th. Can Nippon hold on for an ippon? The announcers just finished dising Davidson the Ump who is calling first base. They apparently are setting him up to be the fall guy just in case Cuba comes back.
hehehe

[Captain Japan]

The saga continues. Japan leads Cuba 6 to 1 in the bottom of the 5th. Can Nippon hold on for an ippon? The announcers just finished dising Davidson the Ump who is calling first base. They apparently are setting him up to be the fall guy just in case Cuba comes back.
hehehe

One comment: Why did Cuba pull their starter after 4 batters? Japan hadn't even hit one ball on the button.

I'm watching the game now. Cuba looks flat but we'll see.

[Greji]

One comment: Why did Cuba pull their starter after 4 batters? Japan hadn't even hit one ball on the button.

I'm watching the game now. Cuba looks flat but we'll see.

Flat as a tire. Japan wins it 10-6. Stand by for the media on-slaught! Sekai no Nippon!

I'm turning off the TV for two weeks!

[Captain Japan]

I really think the WBC needs to rethink the elimination policy. Japan beat Korea in the semis but that gave them a record of 1-2 vs Korea in the tourney overall. That was Korea's first loss. And Japan then advances? I think single elimination (or some sort of system that makes a little more sense) ought to be established when this sucker returns in 2009.

[AssKissinger]

[SIZE="7"][font="Arial Black"][color="Red"] Congratulations Japan!!! [/color][/font][/SIZE]

Oh my Gawd!!! Did you hear that guy butcher Daisuke Matsuzaka's name when presenting the MVP trophy?

[Greji]

I really think the WBC needs to rethink the elimination policy. Japan beat Korea in the semis but that gave them a record of 1-2 vs Korea in the tourney overall. That was Korea's first loss. And Japan then advances? I think single elimination (or some sort of system that makes a little more sense) ought to be established when this sucker returns in 2009.

That's a good point. Another idea like in most tourneys, advance the winner and runner up into separate pools so they don't end up playing each again until the semis or the finals. A seeding system might not be bad either!

[American Oyaji]

That is one of those things that I was never able to forgive Japan for. I always held that against the country. That and the fucking ATM's.

What's your problem with ATMs?