Feb 15th Peace action in Tokyo - Miyashita Park Shibuya

[Steve Bildermann]

Saturday 15th. Starts 18:30 East Exit of JR Shibuya station.

http://give-peace-a-chance.jp/e215/#kyoryoku

[groovewonder]

its been given numerous chances. enter reality.

what are you talking about?!
give peace a chance! the rest of the world realizes that america is wrong.

[Andocrates]

No, the real deal is Bush is bound and determined to make war - no matter what. It's his blind side and most of the world can see it. I'm hardly a peacnik but this is just stupidity. He's already done more harm to the image of the US then Clinton did in 8 years.

It's always those safe in Washington who send our boys to die. This "war" in my opinion is not worth a single American or Iraqjin (how do you spell iraq-ee) life.

Make a list of the things you are willing to sacrifice your child, brother, or best friend for.

To protect our country from attack or invasion - good I would be proud if my child, brother, or best friend died for that.

To ensure good oil prices - I'll pay 30 cents more a gallon and keep my child, brother, or best friend alive.

[GuyJean]

how about a new slogan, for the peaceniks...
give war a chance!

Or my high school favorite: Fuck peace. War is reality.

..But I'm not in high school anymore..

I was emailed this from the last peace rally in D.C.:

One of the most amazing things about the anti war rally in Washington, DC was the creativity and variety of the hand-made signs held by the protesters.

Bush does for Christianity what Bin Laden does for Islam
War Is A Dick Thing, Peace Is A Heart Thing
Draft The Bush Twins
Don't Mess With Mesopotamia
War Is SO 20th Century
When Bush Comes To Shove
Brains Not Bombs
Goddess Bless the Whole Wide World
George Dubya: Weapon Of Mass Distraction
Beat The Bushes For Peace
Weapons Of Mass Destruction: Look Under The Bushes
Drop Bush, Not Bombs
Bombing For Peace Is Like Fucking For Virginity
Evolve! Work For A Non-violent Future
If War Is The Answer, We're Asking The Wrong Question
Killing Innocent People Is The Problem, Not The Solution
Save America, Spare Iraq, Make Texas Take Him Back
Real Patriots Drive Hybrids
Small Print For Peace (on a teensy card held aloft on a stick like any
large sign)
Drop Names, Not Bombs
Who Would Jesus Bomb?
Stop Mad Cowboy Disease
George Bush Couldn't Run A Laundromat
Bush Is A Servant Of Sauron. We Hates Him!
Make Love, Not War
There Is No Path To Peace - Peace IS The Path
Justice Or Just Us?
Sorry Dubya - Have A Pretzel Instead
Pretzel - It Does A Country Good
Tame The Tyrant In The Mirror, Then The One In Iraq
Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld: Axis Of Weasel
Go Solar, Not Ballistic
Faster Trains Not Planes
Nonviolence, Not Nonexistence
A Village In Texas Has Lost Its Idiot
How Many Lives Per Gallon?
Make Alternative Energy Not War
How Did Our Oil Get Under Their Soil?
Out Beyond Ideas Of Right Doing And Wrong Doing There Is A
Field. I Will Meet You There. - Rumi
Regime Change Begins At Home
More MPGs, Less MIAs
Put The Peace Back In
No Hitting (held by young girl)
No Oilgarchy (Oilgarchy in circle with slash across it)
God Does Not Bless Only America
Rich Man's War Poor Man's Blood
Has Anyone Seen Our Constitution Lately?
What If God Blesses Iraq?
Born To Kill, Born To Drill
Let's Try Preemptive Peace
Our Grief Is Not A Cry For War
Books Not Bombs
If You Are Not Outraged You Are Not Paying Attention
Bush Is A Moron Don't Let Him Get His War On
Make Soup Not War
Honk If You're A Terrorist
Smart Bombs Don't Justify Dumb Leaders
We Have Guided Missiles And Misguided Men
Who's The Unelected Tyrant With The Bomb?
Peaceful Solution Not Daddy's Retribution
Make Tea Not War
All Humanity Is Downwind
My President Is A Psychopath
Relax, George
Fight Plaque, not Iraq (and the guy was carrying a toothbrush)

Some good ones..

GJ

[GuyJean]

This "war" in my opinion is not worth a single American or Iraqjin life.

Yeah. So far, I tend to agree..

But do you honestly think Saddham would be so 'cooperative', and other European countries so eager to be 'diplomatic' if there wasn't a complete an utter dumbass threatening all-out fucking war? Stupidity has it's perks..

Saddham laughed at Clinton because Clinton was too smart. Too predicable. He has no idea what Bushit's next move is..

The protests are nice though.. I think it DOES make a difference.. But just once, I'd like to see people protest a country besides the US.. Where are the thousands in downtown Tokyo protesting North Korea's policies?.. It's just so cool to hate the US.

Just thoughts..

GJ

[cstaylor]

No, the real deal is Bush is bound and determined to make war - no matter what

The biggest problem with this administration is communication. There are some very good reasons for removing Saddam, but none of them have been communicated directly from the President in clear, concise English. This, my friends, is why learning proper diction, spelling, and delivery are absolutely critical for a leader.

It's his blind side and most of the world can see it.

Most of the uneducated world... or those that have other motives. Those "No War for Oil" placards can just as easily be written in French or Russian that say "No False Peace for Oil".

You see, if this administration had the ability to communicate properly with the public, they could say, "Unlike the French and Russia, we renounce all oil contracts with Iraq, present and future. If a future, democratically elected Iraqi parliment decides to grant the United States oil contracts, we will purchase from them, but we absolutely refuse to fund a tyrant". Unfortunately, that would require sacrifice from Americans at the pump (the U.S. already buys oil from Iraq), so I doubt this administration would have the backbone to do that.

He's already done more harm to the image of the US then Clinton did in 8 years.

Hmmm... not sure about that. If you mean damage to old allies like France and Germany, then yes, he has done more damage than Clinton. If you mean by unsupported and unexplained military incursions into foreign soil, I seem to remember someone bombing Sudan and Afghanistan without provocation or warning. What message did that send?

It's always those safe in Washington who send our boys to die. This "war" in my opinion is not worth a single American or Iraqjin (how do you spell iraq-ee) life.

Before you speak for the iraqi people, why don't you spend some time reading what political prisoners in Iraq must suffer? Makes a close parallel to North Korea. Why don't you read what the leaders of Iraq's neighbors think of Saddam?

Make a list of the things you are willing to sacrifice your child, brother, or best friend for

Freedom from militant Islam and its drive to subjugate all to Allah's will. I take my religious freedom seriously, and I wouldn't want my wife forced into a Burqah.

To protect our country from attack or invasion - good I would be proud if my child, brother, or best friend died for that.

And here I thought isolationism died with the second world war.

To ensure good oil prices - I'll pay 30 cents more a gallon and keep my child, brother, or best friend alive.

Or how about, "I was afraid to tackle the demons of tyranny when I had the chance, and say, buddy, can you pass the duct tape?"

[cstaylor]

The protests are nice though.. I think it DOES make a difference.. But just once, I'd like to see people protest a country besides the US.. Where are the thousands in downtown Tokyo protesting North Korea's policies?.. It's just so cool to hate the US.

No, I think it goes deeper than that. These people know that the U.S. won't drop Nodongs and Taepodongs on them if they protest... and I'm almost positive we'd see a missile overflight the same week that Japanese protest North Korea en-masse.

[Andocrates]

Yea yea, I'm always amazed when people assume the other side is ignorant of the facts, everyone in this room already knows all those arguments. That was not debate, that was a childish outburst of anger.

Put forth something tangable, this is like a fable in which a young King rising up to avenge his fathers humilation (and yea that's about how Texans work)

Yes Iraqnads is dangerous, but so is every single country that can afford arms.

[cstaylor]

The US propped up Saddam Hussein while he committed his worst atrocities.

Yes, when they were at war with Iran, a terror nation that stormed the U.S. embassy and took all of its occupants hostage for over a year.

The US sold Saddam his chemical agents and plenty of military hardware.

Same war as above.

The current administrations line on this is that they didn't know what he'd do with the stuff. Isn't that a bit like a drug dealer wondering what a crack whore is gonna do with her shiny new rock?

Not really. How about "He's a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch" -- F.D.R.

Claiming that Iraq is a violator of UN secrity council resolutions and should therefore be punished rings a bit hollow since the US has vetoed the most resolutions (at least 50), and will not respect resolutions passed against Israel.

Yes, that is distressing. The history of Israel and the Palestinians goes back over a hundred years when the British decided to establish a nation for Jews in British-controlled Palestine. Remember the U.N. established Israel in 1947.

Stating that you're gonna hit Baghdad with 800 cruise missiles in two days to create an effect like a nuclear explosion doesn't win allies.

What is the goal? At the minimum, a disarmed Iraq (as per numerous U.N. resolutions). The best: a democratic Iraq free of Saddam. Unfortunately, a democratic Iraq may negotiate oil contracts at a fairer rate than the current regime... something I'm sure the French would dislike.

50% of the Iraqi population is under 15.

So is Saudi Arabia's, but at least they're moving towards democracy. You'd have to pry the throne from Saddam's cold dead hands (after you remove all of the "voluntary" human shields).

I could go on, but educating morons ain't my bag baby.

::cough:: Yeah, that would be like the blind leading the dumb after all, wouldn't it?

Look, every generation learns this lesson the hard way. Go back and read the history of Britain between the two world wars: public opinion weighed heavily towards peace (Winston Churchill, the lone voice in Parliment that warned against the Nazi rise to power, was heckled at almost all public appearances), and a series of practical men at 10 Downing Street (MacDonald, Baldwin, Chamberlain) decided to let public opinion steer the future of England into a sham peace.

Back to you professor.

[cstaylor]

I was off by a year on the creation of Israel by the U.N.: it was 1948.

[ramchop]

The protests are nice though.. I think it DOES make a difference.. But just once, I'd like to see people protest a country besides the US.. Where are the thousands in downtown Tokyo protesting North Korea's policies?.. It's just so cool to hate the US.

Not quite true. I've seen big protests against the French (nuclear testing), Indonesians (East Timor), China (Tibet), Japan (whaling). OK, not on the same scale as the weekend's parties (and certainly not in downtown Tokyo).

So why does the world get all enthusiastic against America? It's probably the overexposure. The world is hammered with the American "dream". Hollywood, CNN. Watch a movie like Independence Day, you may feel compelled to jump up from your seat chanting "U-S-A! U-S-A!" when the president delivers his speech, the rest of the world is struggling to hold down their popcorn.

Unreasonable? Probably. But throw us some bait (in this case an overwhelmingly stupid Bush), and we'll snatch at it. Clinton was so much more an acceptable face of America. Bush preaches and patronises, arrogantly and ignorantly. I still find it hard to believe that someone with as much money as him had only ever visited two countries before he became president (Canada and Mexico). And now he's dabbling in foreign affairs.

This is a world issue. There is no question that Saddam is a tyrant and his demise would be a good thing. At present America is undeniably the most significant nation in the world. It is not the only nation, this is what Bush needs to understand. Preaching from the bible will never endear him to the majority of the world.

[gaijinzilla]

I'm curious...how is Saudia Arabia moving closer to becoming a democracy?

[GuyJean]

Not quite true. I've seen big protests against the French (nuclear testing), Indonesians (East Timor), China (Tibet), Japan (whaling). OK, not on the same scale as the weekend's parties (and certainly not in downtown Tokyo).

Where were these 'protests'? I, personally, haven't seen any of this..

So why does the world get all enthusiastic against America? It's probably the overexposure. The world is hammered with the American "dream". Hollywood, CNN.

Um, change the channel?

I'm an American, and I still refuse to see the Titanic. You DO have choices.. Oh, but wait! Having choices is part of the American way.. Better cross that off your list too.

But throw us some bait (in this case an overwhelmingly stupid Bush)

You'll get no arguement from me on this.. I like my leaders to be smarter than me.

Just a question: If Clinton was still in power and wanted a war with Iraq, would you support it?

Real question, actually.

GJ

[Jack]

There is one tyrant I would like the US to remove, and his name is Sharon.

There is one country who has been ignoring 100% of UN resolutions for ever that I want the US to attack and that is Isreal.

Give me a fu**ing break with Hussein. What has he ever done to America?

Bush wants to fight, go fight with Israel.

[ramchop]

Not quite true. I've seen big protests against the French (nuclear testing), Indonesians (East Timor), China (Tibet), Japan (whaling). OK, not on the same scale as the weekend's parties (and certainly not in downtown Tokyo).

Where were these 'protests'? I, personally, haven't seen any of this..

Umm, change channel.... or maybe American (and Japanese) TV only focuses on "world" events that relate to America (Japan) so you don't have that option.

Oh, but wait! Having choices is part of the American way.. Better cross that off your list too.

Yes, democracy is an American invention.

Just a question: If Clinton was still in power and wanted a war with Iraq, would you support it?

Mighty fine question. I don't know. Probably not.... but having said that, where were the world-wide protests when Clinton bombed Sudan and Afghanistan?

[GuyJean]

maybe American (and Japanese) TV only focuses on "world" events that relate to America (Japan) so you don't have that option.

I watch Philippine, German, French, Russian, British, Chinese, AND US news... Buy a BS dish and don't pay for cable. There are plenty of other sources out there.

Yes, democracy is an American invention.

I was joking.. The US didn't invent freedom of choice.. We're good at selling those ideals... Then taking credit for them

I'm waiting for when the US car companies claim they made Hydrogen cars first..

where were the world-wide protests when Clinton bombed Sudan and Afghanistan?

I think a lot of it has to do with the ability to communicate an objective. Bush can't communicate... period!

GJ

[ramchop]

I think a lot of it has to do with the ability to communicate an objective. Bush can't communicate... period!

And what is the objective? To destroy the chemical weapons or to destroy Saddam?

The US sold Saddam his chemical agents and plenty of military hardware.

Same war as above.

Are you seriously suggesting that it was OK to supply Iraq with chemical weapons because they were using them to fight the evil Iran at the time?

If so then why not just give the Kurds a nuclear missile or two and let them solve the Saddam problem?

[Big Booger]

let Iraq be..
The US should hold on the war, until the nations and people that are attacked by Iraq beg for help..

Then the US should only do it, if there is something to gain out of it.


I know the US has different motivations for attacking Iraq pre-emptively... I mean why would we attack a country that hasn't done anything in the past 11 years? Seems fishy to me too.. even though I am an American, I know that Bush sees oil, money, etc... from attacking. I bet he is even banking on a surge in the economy after the war.. seems to be the trends.. anyway.

I feel sorry for the civilians who are involved in the propoganda... caught up in the middle of a war that IMHO could be resolved peacefully with Bush backing down from his war cry, and Saddam taking the high rode out of Baghdad..
BB

[cstaylor]

Are you seriously suggesting that it was OK to supply Iraq with chemical weapons because they were using them to fight the evil Iran at the time?

If so then why not just give the Kurds a nuclear missile or two and let them solve the Saddam problem?

Can't do that. Not permitted under the NPT.