Anime: I know why some FG hate it...

[Pencilslave]

(The following contains no sarcasm, I'm being absolutely serious.)

I've come to understand why some of the in Japan FG's hate anime and manga so much. You can't get away from it.(Also in some parts of the U.S) Whether in it's original form or in other media like commercials and print ads, it's everywhere. It's quite easy to understand how those who dislike it can have that dislike turn to hatred. And hearing some otaku babble on and on about could no doubt annoy anyone.(Even I get annoyed by some of the more chronic examples.)

I finally and truly understand because I'm in not the same boat but a similar one.(I have to warn you what I'm about to say will make you think I'm a three headed monster.)

As Japan is the center of Anime and manga, I live in a place that is football central.

Alabama. Where football is practically the state religion and I wouldn't be suprised if somewhere out there someone has an altar with Bear Bryant's picture on it.(And I hear Bama fans ramble on and on about Auburn being a cow college and Auburn fans saying if that's so why does all the bull come from Tuscaloosa?)

And I hate football.

So, Anime hating FG's, I don't mind anymore the ragging you do on anime and manga, because I know what it's like to be surrounded by something you hate.

[canman]

I don't know if I would call myself an anime hater, I just don't care for the stuff. But being in Japan I am bombarded with it day and night. What amazes me is that even the NHK weather forecast have to use these cute little characters to explain the news. And even serious matters for example dealing with natura diasters or the like are illustrated with these adorable little minks doing this and that.
I just can't understand how people can take this stuff seriously. It would be like using Bugs Bunny to run through a terrorist attack drill. Not gonna happen. Now I know there is McGruff the crime dog and other characters in the US but those are aimed specifically at childdren. But here in Japan its made just for adults. Go figure.

[GomiGirl]

But what about the cute little mouse with big ears that the police use as their mascot - makes them seem all scary - NOT...

[Taro Toporific]

But what about the cute little mouse with big ears that the police use as their mascot - makes them seem all scary - NOT...

[Red Floyd]

From that perspective it makes perfect sense to dislkie anime/manga/otaku culture. As to why some of you are confused about the prominence of anime or anime influenced characters in seemingly out of place locations, there's many explanations for that. Here's the short version: Japan's growth at the end of WWII and the growth of manga/anime have gone hand in hand.

[ichigo partygirl]

i have no hatred of anime - ive just never gotten into it. I thought being in Japan would make me understand it and want to know more about it, but it hasnt. The cute cartoons that illustrate serious matters amuse me and scare me at the same time - is that really the only way to get through to them??
Disliking anime in Japan, is like hating rugby in NZ.

[kamome]

It's not a hatred of anime/manga per se. The ridicule is directed at anime otaku just as ridicule is heaped on Trekkies - as Shatner once said, "Get a life, people!" It might be unpopular for me to say this, but in my opinion, people who are consumed by anime or make it a hobby, and then base their interest in Japan on that hobby, are oddballs.

[Red Floyd]

i have no hatred of anime - ive just never gotten into it. I thought being in Japan would make me understand it and want to know more about it, but it hasnt.

Becoming an anime fan isn't just as simple as being in a place. Most anime fans around today are fans because they were introduced to it at an early age. I'm taking a wild guess here, but maybe you just haven't seen the right anime. I have friends that were either vehemently opposed to anime or knew nothing about it, and I was able to change their perceptions by showing one or two titles.
I'd reccomend anything directed by Hayao Miyazaki (Spirited Away, Lupin III: Castle of Cagliostro, Porco Rosso), Samurai Champloo, or Cowboy Bebop.

It might be unpopular for me to say this, but in my opinion, people who are consumed by anime or make it a hobby, and then base their interest in Japan on that hobby, are oddballs.

Just curious, but what do you consider the criteria for one to be an "oddball"? Because, technically, my interest in Japanese culture partly sprung from anime. When I was 10 or so I got into Speed Racer, Godzilla, and such, and my dad would bring me back little trinkets from his business trips. It snow balled a bit and, long story short, here I am.

[kamome]

Just curious, but what do you consider the criteria for one to be an "oddball"?

It's kind of like the answer to the question of "What is porn?" Hard to define, but you know it when you see it.

I don't know anything about you, so if you're asking me if I think you are an oddball, I can't give you an answer.

[puargs]

Everyone has something they hate. I happen to like crappy anime (Naruto, Dragonball, whatever), the same as I dig on crappy American cartoons like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and The Super Mario Brothers Super Show. Sure, you have to have a real life and be responsible, get a job and do the grind just like everyone else, but sometimes you like to zonk out and watch a cheesy cartoon show to be entertained just like when you were a kid. It's a good change of pace for the mind.

Where it starts to change in my mind, and where I totally agree with you, is when it becomes a way of life for some people. In the same fashion as the drunk fat jackasses stick out their blue and gold painted gut on TV, screaming like monkeys about how great their team is, there are stupid anime freaks who live night and day memorizing lines from some crappy show and not doing anything original with themselves.

It's still funny for an adult to wear a T-shirt emblazoned with "Cowabunga!", but not to live every moment of your day for some shitty cartoon, and it's perfectly fine to enjoy a nice afternoon of sports every once in a while; as long as you're not that drunk fat guy who could tell you how many minutes were left when Vince made his fifth to last play in 19xx.

I say fuck elitists who won't let you show any interest in anything. If someone likes something, that's their prerogative. Just don't make me watch your fat ass dance around half naked painted with your team's colors (or your anime makeup) all over you.

[ichigo partygirl]

Actually i love the Miyazaki films. But being a fan of some movies is entirely different to being really into anime. Everyone is entitled to like whatever they want, its only when they push it in my face that i have a problem

[Mulboyne]

But what about the cute little mouse with big ears that the police use as their mascot

I wonder how may national leaders would see this as a natural photo opportunity?

[Charles]

Just don't make me watch your fat ass dance around half naked painted with your team's colors (or your anime makeup) all over you.

Oh but that is precisely the problem. Anime fandom is a subspecies of Orientalism, it is a way for otherwise-undistinguished people to assert some sort of special qualities. They believe are cooler than you because they are into something exotic and foreign that takes a whole lifestyle to adequately appreciate. Their way to assert their superiority is to push it in your face, either you become a convert, in which case you are on the bottom rung below them since you're a newbie; or else you reject it, in which case you've failed their coolness test. Either way, they win.

You would not believe the reactions I get from otaku who pester me with their comics, when I tell them I have no interest. They know I have spent years and years attaining a higher level of Japanese proficiency than they will ever achieve, yet I have never been interested in their little hobby. It blows their minds, and they try even harder to interest me in their ridiculous comics.

BTW puargs, did I ever tell you the story about the guy here in IC who got arrested for showing pedophiliac manga to jr high kids? You ought to watch out for that guy, I think he's still around town, he used to be president of the local anime club.

[Red Floyd]

BTW puargs, did I ever tell you the story about the guy here in IC who got arrested for showing pedophiliac manga to jr high kids? You ought to watch out for that guy, I think he's still around town, he used to be president of the local anime club.

That is fuckin' funny. I like studying the strange instances when otaku culture and normal Japanese society collide with disastrous results. Like the Tsutomu Miyazaki case back in '89.
But you make a good point that for every one level headed otaku that's also genuinely interested in Japanese culture beyond anime, there are about 50 complete jackasses.

[Charles]

But you make a good point that for every one level headed otaku that's also genuinely interested in Japanese culture beyond anime, there are about 50 complete jackasses.

That is not a point I made, there is no such thing as a "level headed otaku." An otaku is, by definition, mentally defective.

I always tell otaku that they are not learning Japanese culture from comics. All they are learning is a specific comic author's culture. Can you learn American culture from studying Disney comics?

[Red Floyd]

That is not a point I made, there is no such thing as a "level headed otaku." An otaku is, by definition, mentally defective.

I always tell otaku that they are not learning Japanese culture from comics. All they are learning is a specific comic author's culture. Can you learn American culture from studying Disney comics?

My mistake. I was using the American definition of otaku as simply one who likes anime. As to whether or not one can learn about Japanese culture through anime/manga is debateable. I could really go on about that, but I don't think the people here would be too interested. My position is this though: anime/manga is by no means at all an end all be all way of learning about Japanese culture, but I firmly believe that one can learn much if one scrutinizes the right titles.

[cstaylor]

That is not a point I made, there is no such thing as a "level headed otaku." An otaku is, by definition, mentally defective.

I always tell otaku that they are not learning Japanese culture from comics. All they are learning is a specific comic author's culture. Can you learn American culture from studying Disney comics?

When I was dating my wife, she recommended that we watch some tapes of "Urusei Yatsura", a comedy placed in mid 80's Japan.

It was a good recommendation. Some of the things I learned were:
- Japanese work WAY too much
- Japanese kids wear uniforms to school
- What a typical rabbit hutch looks like
- What is "oni goko"
- What is otaku
- What are the oni
- Setsubun
- Boy's Day
- Girl's Day
- Kintaro
- Kappa
- Karasu Tengu
- Heian Jidai

And I only watched the first few tapes (about 20 episodes). I agree with the general statements made here that most anime targeted for teenage boys have very little educational value, but some of the shows have interesting bits of Japanese history or popular culture as well.

[etto_neh]

cstaylor- Wow. You posted almost exactly what I was gonna say. In addition to your list; From anime, the things which I have come to learn are true about JP include:

-- Loudly slurping up ramen is common and perfectly acceptable.
-- Every god damn thing under the sun is SUGOI!
-- Almost every line in a conversation begins with 'A-!'
-- Your average neighborhood has enough powerlines strung about to cocoon every person who has ever lived
-- Robotic fuck-maid technology is being pursued in earnest
-- Most Japanese guys would rather eat a live kitten than introducing themselves to and risk being shutdown by a living female who does not work for them or who they otherwise do not pay for
-- Elevator girls still exist and the job is very desirable because the uniforms are cute as hell

What ISN'T true:

All Japanese are these super-connected broadband internet fiends. Most of those gals ya see with the fake tans and short skirts couldn't google themselves the time of day. (and to rant- sure, zaq SAYS i'm paying for 10MB/s, but I've never seen over 400KB/s)

Anyway... It's been about 2 years now, and I still love it in Japan, but I'm still drawn back to the States by easily attainable dreams of driving 78 Mph on I-85, leaning back in leather ... cruise-control on, left leg propped on the dash while my gal in a low-cut sun dress forks over small chunks of filet mignon carry-out. Take-5 is playing in the background and... oh... sorry... hold on. I gotta... gotta take a phone call.

[dimwit]

I have three basic issues with anime.

The mind-numbing insipidness of a lot of it -by special attention cuteness everything ends up looking common place.

From the layman's point of view, far too much of it looks exactly the same. No one would ever confuse North American comics like 'Peanuts' with 'Doonesbury'. Yet when I have looked at my sons comics I have great difficultly distinguishing 'Dragonball' with 'Naruto' with say 'One Piece'.

Lastly, they rarely take on any political issues of consequence. Fuck even Mad Magazine is hundred times more inciteful than most anime. As for a 'South Park' a 'Doonesbury' or a 'Zippy' anime can't touch that level of social commentary.

[kamome]

I have three basic issues with anime.

The mind-numbing insipidness of a lot of it -by special attention cuteness everything ends up looking common place.

From the layman's point of view, far too much of it looks exactly the same. No one would ever confuse North American comics like 'Peanuts' with 'Doonesbury'. Yet when I have looked at my sons comics I have great difficultly distinguishing 'Dragonball' with 'Naruto' with say 'One Piece'.

Lastly, they rarely take on any political issues of consequence. Fuck even Mad Magazine is hundred times more inciteful than most anime. As for a 'South Park' a 'Doonesbury' or a 'Zippy' anime can't touch that level of social commentary.

Actually, I believe that socially conscious and political manga do exist. It's the puff and cutesy manga that are prevalent in the mainstream. Not that I could name any of the political manga for you, but I think they're out there.

It's true that you can learn some things about Japanese culture from anime/manga. I have used manga for Japanese language study and picked up some good grammar and vocabulary from it. The trick is learning how to weed out the inappropriate and overly slangy Japanese so that you sound natural.

[drpepper]

What ISN'T true:

All Japanese are these super-connected broadband internet fiends. Most of those gals ya see with the fake tans and short skirts couldn't google themselves the time of day. (and to rant- sure, zaq SAYS i'm paying for 10MB/s, but I've never seen over 400KB/s)

You do realize it is not 10MB/s you are paying for but rather 10Mb/s.. and 400KB/s = 3.2Mb/s... 1/3 of the advertised rate is not unusual at all.. most people peak at around 1/2.

[oyajikun]

When I was dating my wife, she recommended that we watch some tapes of "Urusei Yatsura", a comedy placed in mid 80's Japan.

It was a good recommendation. Some of the things I learned were:
- Japanese work WAY too much
- Japanese kids wear uniforms to school
- What a typical rabbit hutch looks like
- What is "oni goko"
- What is otaku
- What are the oni
- Setsubun
- Boy's Day
- Girl's Day
- Kintaro
- Kappa
- Karasu Tengu
- Heian Jidai

And I only watched the first few tapes (about 20 episodes). I agree with the general statements made here that most anime targeted for teenage boys have very little educational value, but some of the shows have interesting bits of Japanese history or popular culture as well.

I learned alot about Japan from this show as well.

Although I can't relate very well with todays Anime Dorks, back in the day, I used to watch quite alot of the old Macross episodes. I was mostly into video games.. My friends and I would buy copies of Animage just to see what new games were coming out for the Megadrive.

[Pencilslave]

An added thought or two.Upon further contemplation after making my original post, I suspect what makes not only some fg's but other folks hate anime is the fanatics.
(Admittedly this is probably belaboring the obvious.) I've been a fanatic for various things over the years; comic books, science fiction and horror novels and films,(My geeky self memorized the first paragraph of Lovecraft's the Call of Cthulu ! O.o) alternative music like Lords of Acid,Covenant, Diatribe, Project Pitchfork, Bettie Page pin up photos and art, and currently a split obsession between anime/manga and net surfing.
Now the problem with geeks, fanatics etc, is they like me, get fixated on one thing to the exclusion of everything else.
It's good for someone to have something they enjoy, but when they spend
all their time on it, and don't try other things, they're cheating themselves out of finding other things they may like and in extreme cases little or no social interaction outside of the people who share their mania.

From now on, I'm going to start looking up my old "friends" again. Re-read my old novels, and comics,watch my old sci fi and horror flicks, again, and toss some of the old industrial and techno cd's back in the cd player. But, above all seek out new things to enjoy and people who share these interests.

Too many things in this big old world too focus on just one or a few. Best to be well rounded.

[plaid_knight]

I see where you're coming from and I agree with you. I'm an anime fan, I cosplay, and I go to cons. I enjoy hanging out with other fans, but I am not pushy with my pasttime. It's something I enjoy doing.

I enjoy other things as well: Buffy, Angel, Star Trek TNG, playstation games, working out, and so forth. It's important to keep everything in perspective and not get obsessive about one thing.

Other people here in the States are into football, but I've never had any interest in that. It's just a difference of taste.

[emperor]

http://agdcfe.ytmnd.com

http://ytmndjapan.ytmnd.com

omg... i was logged in, clicked edit, wrote loads of text, and when i pressed 'save' it said i needed to log in and all the text was lost... (mmm, maybe i pressed apple button + S, like on a word doc - bummer)

i couldnt be arsed writing it again...son of a bitch... i cant even remember half of what i wrote;
smtn bout: full metal alchemist (nice wud watch another season in spite of the movie), original japanese voices versus badly dubbed american ones, rurouni kenshin (a story that sucked me in and had me watch all of it back to back but was actually total balls on retrospect), ghibli & miyazaki & ghibli-esque movies, samurai champloo=funky, satoshi kon, havent watched nazis summon demons from other dimensions to tenticle rape godzilla and then buy it breakfast since i was a lad...

[Taro Toporific]

....full metal alchemist ... rurouni kenshin (a story that sucked me.... ghibli & miyazaki & ghibli-esque movies, samurai champloo=funky, satoshi kon.....nazis summon demons from other dimensions to tenticle rape godzilla and then buy it breakfast since i was a lad...

PROOF.

[emperor]

PROOF.

Im one of the 50 jackasses? 'cause I dont think I qualify as a level-headed otaku:

with the exception of 'Urotsukido^ji' which i saw at a friends house in the early 90s, I hadnt watched any anime before learning Japanese or coming to Japan.

& since then, Ive only been partial to the occasional movie or series.
I watch them for entertainments' sake, not in order to learn about Jap culture. However, in some cases eg. 'Rurouni K.' & 'Samurai Champloo' theres a small educational element in which theyll introduce, reference or explain foods, places, terms, & other historical and cultural tidbits. + if youre downloading eps with fansubs theres sometimes even more clarification on obscure topics. & i only started watching 'full metal alchemist' cause it was one of the few good things on...my japanese tv spent several weeks in a cupboard, cause i was afraid id put my foot through it if i saw another show where that fat cunt called to a restaurant to sample their ramen.
The only anime I would 'regularly' subscribe to are Miyazaki/Ghibli films cause the stories and production values are always topnotch, in the same way youd always make time for a new Spielberg movie. As for Charles view of elitist/'im.cooler.&.more.unique.than.thou' anime types, i'd imagine they represent a tiny minority of peeps who watch anime. I have to plead with people to borrow & watch a copy of my totoro or princess monoke dvds cause theyre still thinking Japanese animation = pokemon/digimon or tenticle rape monster adventure... but i hardly smell my own farts and jump back in my Hybrid when they say 'yes'...and maybe that just means Im not an otaku.