iMac 20" Core Duo -- Buy or not?

[electrocat]

haha.. i never thought about mac users being able to surf porn and warez sites without worry.... maybe they should put that in their advertisments.. The ijack?

[FG Lurker]

People love to make such a big deal out of the browser thing.

Anyone using IE on Windows deserves whatever they get. Use Firefox or Opera.

I haven't had a virus on Windows since....never. The last virus I had was on an Atari 1040ST -- boot sector virus on "borrowed" software disks.

[mr. sparkle]

People love to make such a big deal out of the browser thing.

Anyone using IE on Windows deserves whatever they get. Use Firefox or Opera.

I haven't had a virus on Windows since....never. The last virus I had was on an Atari 1040ST -- boot sector virus on "borrowed" software disks.

Yep, I'm a FireFox guy on XP. No viruses yet, knock on wood.

[American Oyaji]

Man, I dowloaded something from a site I always download from on my new company IBM laptop. I usually use my old mac, but my old mac can't run these newer video codecs very smoothly. (hell, it's only a 300mhz processor)

Just as the download was finishing, I was looking at the screen, something ELSE downloaded onto the machine. I was like WTF??? I didn't have a chance to get a good look at it, but when I get to work today, I'm going to reimage the machine. Good thing I work in the IT department.

I've never had that problem on my mac. And ya know what? I'm gonna use Firefox on my company laptop when I surf the net.

IT's what I use on my Mac. Better than Safari (well, I can't use the most recent Safari because I run an old Mac) I can't go higher than 10.2.8 unless
I install some hardware upgrades, but I would just rather get that new tower.

[AlbertSiegel]

What would you use a PC for in an all Mac Shop?

I hsve some applications that they don't have on the Mac. My PC is faster than the Mac at work. We still use a quicksilver with OS9 in the photo department. The international desk has a dual G4 with OSX. My PC just helps me get the job done fatser sometimes.

Never checked out GarageBand? iMovie? iDVD? These are godhead apps.

I have and they are of no interest to me. Not the kind of thing I am into.

Face it, you're set in your ways. I have an XP system. It's OK but I stay with my Mac. I think XP is ugly and klunky but I use it for one program. I guess you could say that, yes, I'm set in my ways too.

we agree

Vista is still being tested with new features copied from OS X. Watch the Keynote from WWDC. So many parts of the "upcoming Vista" are directly ripped off from OS X. OS X and XP are not in the same class of OS. OS X and the upcoming VISTA will be. And have you seen Leopard? It leaps way beyond Vista with a number of features. Check out "Time Machine" and Core Animation. Woo Hoo!

I really don't think it will be "leaps" beyond Vista. What in the world is Time Machine?

You forgot to include the price of your anti-virus, spyware suite good brother!

I pay nothing for these. There are great free programs on the web.

Not me. I use Mac 'cause I like 'em. You might try talking to some "switchers". People switch to Mac because the OS is more elegant and because they can run both XP And OS X on a single machine.

What about the poeple who switched to Windows from Mac? What do they say?

You're just not paying attention then. Price an equivalent Dell Workstation and a Mac Pro Tower. Identical hardware, the Mac is cheaper. Apple will not license their OS because they want to sell hardware. If they licensed OS X, it could very well kill off their hardware business.

Translation= greedy

At what time (other than now) does that matter?


What in the hell are you talking about? Are you sure you are up to date?


Dude, this is 2006. WHO CARES about the 90's.

I do as I have had a Mac since 1993. I have not made my opinion on just what happened in the last few months.

It's even better at 10.4. And not much better than Windows? In what way? It sure is uglier. It sure is clunkier. It sure is slower. Ah well. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I don't think Windows is any slower or clunkier than OSX. I have never had an issue like this. Perhaps you should take a Windows class or something. You are right about windows being ugly. But then again, I said I use my computer as a tool and not a toy.

Which is why you should get a Mac. Porn, porn, beautiful PORN!! And it's all FREE from any nasty viruses. And what's a warez? That's for teenagers, not computer pros like us.

LOL! I guess porn is great if that's what your into. I have enough fun with women in real life. I don't really need porn.

It's jumped way higher than that recently. Besides, who cares how big the market is or is not? Use the machine that works best for your line of work. In that 3 % of overall users, I'll bet that 90% of that 3% are graphic designers, video editors, print pros, etc. Hopefully, this makes sense to you. A Mac is not for everyone, sure. But computer newbies just love them 'cause they're very easy to figure out.

I'm sorry... your right. It is WAY higher... it's now up to 3.4%! I don't care what Mac people do for work. If they like it, then they use it. Good for them. Use what works for you. I do.

I worked there and you have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about. Steve eats at the cafeteria and says HI to people, does Bill? It's a fantastic company that takes care of its employees. When it comes to doing business, would you expect them NOT to play hardball? Especially when your competitor is THE BORG? Give 'em a break.

Sorry, I guess I should listen to you since you served him his food in the cafeteria.

Three words for you: Mac Book Pro. That will come with a PCMCIA equivalent. PCMCIA is rather dead now. I believe the Express 34 card will add ports for you for an equal cost.

Please re-read my post. I said I need SMALL and PCMCIA... the MacBoob PRO is too large for me.

4 MILLION possible configurations for the new Mac Pro tower. I guess that's not enough for you?

I think you don't understand what I mean. Apple has about three choices when it comes to laptops... nothing small. Their desktops are great.. maybe even some of the best you can buy... but agian, small choice.

What do you need it to do?

Long battery life, very small, quiet and cool, not catch fire (last one was joke)

Yeah, but I'll be stuck with XP and I can't use my mission critical apps with XP only. I wouldn't mind having XP on board my Mac so I can run my accounting program and sell this ugly ass Compaq box.

Then stay with your Mac. I never once said don't get a Mac. Use what works best for you. All I said is my reason why I don't like Apple.

Who cares? So Dell makes all the parts for their laptops? Be real.

Don't be silly.. nobody makes all their own parts. Dell is crap in my opinion. I like Panasonic because they make their laptops.

Have fun there. BTW, did you know that a new Mac might actually run XP faster than your PC?

Than my current PC?? Hell yeah the Mac would be faster. Faster than let's say a high end PC laptop... I think not.

The Apple Store People, you mean? I wouldn't give those ninnies the time of day. You can get better advice here, prob'ly.

I agree

Have fun there. And enjoy all those worries about viruses and spyware. I don't even keep my PC on the internet anymore. You know how good Soviet Supreme and his communist brothers are at cracking into your PC. Yes, they're that good. I wouldn't risk it.

I don't worry. I have never once been infected with a virus. You may need to stop visiting the porn sites.

No, ALL Mac people think you're full of it. You don't have the complete picture for 2006, my good man. You are living in the past and are influenced by all the PC types holding on for something better. If anything, I'd look ahead to Vista. It's almost an exact clone of OS X. Enjoy!

You have not changed my mind at all about Mac people. You seem to fall under my opinion of a typical Mac user.

Again, I call BULLSHIT. You didn't give it enough time, and you know I'm right.

How many more years should I give it? More time? I thought you said now and today.

Again I call BULLSHIT. Mac are better for some stuff, PCs are better for other stuff.

And they sky is pink. They can both do the same thing. Now, if you want Final Cut Pro.. then use Apple... no choice.. If you like Mac OS... then use it. If you like XP .... use it.. I never said one was better... I never said don't use either. All I have ever said is why I don't like Apple.

Proven!

I think I did.

QT IS free big guy. http://www.apple.com/quicktime

Quote:
And it seems very weak that they force you to pay another $30 to use pro if you update iTunes.
You do not NEED QT Pro for iTunes. Nice to have if you want better features.

Quicktime basic is free... but there was a time when the full version was free. If you have QT Pro and update iTunes.. You can no longer use your Pro key on the newer version of QT.

You have absolutely NO IDEA what you are saying.

You should be sure that you know what you are saying before you make a stupid comment like that.

An idiotic statement after all that kvetching about how they're both just as good. Think man, think.

You should try your own advice. I was thinking the same about most of your post.

Sparkle.. I had a high opinon about you till I read your post. All you managed to do is look like a fool. I really don't care to continue this kiddie argument. Get the last word in if it makes you feel like a man. I'm done with this topic.

[cstaylor]

Now we got this whole which is better crap which serves nobody.

I agreee. Arguing about computer operating systems should be listed under the same column as comparing religions, sexual preferences, or sports teams: you end up justifying your own entrenched position instead of persuading someone else to leave their own position of emotional safety.

Now we just need a flame war about programming languages (I haven't seen Cubed in a while...) to completely derail this thread.

[mr. sparkle]

You should be sure that you know what you are saying before you make a stupid comment like that.

I stand by it. Nothing personal, but you are totally uninformed about the current state of Mac.

You should try your own advice. I was thinking the same about most of your post.

Your arguments about Mac Vs. PC are just so damn dated. You need to look around you. Things have changed since OS9. Sorry you've had some bad experiences.

Sparkle.. I had a high opinon about you till I read your post. All you managed to do is look like a fool. I really don't care to continue this kiddie argument. Get the last word in if it makes you feel like a man. I'm done with this topic.

Listen man, we're just arguing over dumb ass computers. If you take it that seriously, I'm surprised. After all, this is FG. What do you expect when you start talking krap?

I freelance for Apple, so it touches a raw nerve when people spread WRONG information. I can deal with your negative opinions of the company, especially if you guage the experience from an Apple Store visit, but I can't deal with more false info like Macs are more expensive than a PC with identical parts. That's SO untrue. An IDENTICAL DELL box is more expensive by a few hundred bucks.

But, if you want to think lower of me, that's fine. You know damn well I'm a Mac head and you certainly raised my hackles with your original post.

You're free to reply, but you're probably right - this argument is falling on deaf ears for the both of us. Why bother? Enjoy your Panny. I'm sure it's a fine machine. I'm sure you'll love it even more when Vista comes on line.

Have a good day though.

[electrocat]

he says he uses OS 9 at work.. jeez.. talk about outdated... if thats the majority of experience... i think he shouldn't even be talking here. He said he does have os X... os X 1.0? i bet

[mr. sparkle]

he says he uses OS 9 at work.. jeez.. talk about outdated... if thats the majority of experience... i think he shouldn't even be talking here. He said he does have os X... os X 1.0? i bet

At home I have my Windows PC as well as a Mac mini. I hardly use the mac for anything other than one game and iPhoto to order some small photo books from Apple.

Albert has a Mac Mini, so it's likely running 10.3 or 10.4. Very current versions of OS X. He also has had Macs since 1993. The machines at his work are both OS9 machines and OS X machines. He's had lots of experience with 'em. He just don't like 'em. Fair enough.

BTW, Time Machine: This short vid sums it up.
http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/timemachine.html

Ya gotta admit that it's pretty damn slick.

[American Oyaji]

so wait, this continued to PMs?

BWAHAHAHA!

Hey Sparkle. I'm a mac head, but you my friend are a Mac BRAIN!

[FG Lurker]

Yep, I'm a FireFox guy on XP. No viruses yet, knock on wood.

It's likely you won't get any either.

Bought an AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ yesterday. 2.2GHz, dual cores, 1MB cache on each, and 89W total power. This is basically the same chip as an Opteron 175 but for less than 30,000yen. It makes a very nice and cheap upgrade to my current box.

Another Mac question (hopefully this one doesn't lead to another OS war!): I hate using a mouse for menu naviagation, app-switching, etc. Of course for photo work and moving around chunks of text some sort of pointer control device is needed. Anyway, one of the things that used to drive me nuts about the Mac is that you HAD to use the mouse for so much. Has this changed? Can you navigate all menus etc by keyboard now?

[electrocat]

you can do alot with the keyboard by chainging it in the keyboard prefs. Also theres probably some 3rd party apps that do what the prefs wont do.

on a security note.. check this article on how windows does not compare to os X in security.

http://weblog.infoworld.com/enterprisemac/archives/2006/08/is_windows_inhe.html

[American Oyaji]

this one doesn't lead to another OS war!): I hate using a mouse for menu naviagation, app-switching, etc. Of course for photo work and moving around chunks of text some sort of pointer control device is needed. Anyway, one of the things that used to drive me nuts about the Mac is that you HAD to use the mouse for so much. Has this changed? Can you navigate all menus etc by keyboard now?

There are TONS of menu shortcuts for each program you'll use. You just have to learn them.

[FG Lurker]

you can do alot with the keyboard by chainging it in the keyboard prefs. Also theres probably some 3rd party apps that do what the prefs wont do.

So there are still no standard keyboard system for navigating menus? That sucks. For example, if I want to maximize this Firefox window I use alt-space-x. If I want to restore it, alt-space-r. Minimize is alt-space-n. This works for every single "normal" Windows app -- easily over 99.9% of the apps that are available for Windows. File menu? Alt-f. Edit menu? Alt-e. It is the same for every Windows app. The Windows key has some good shortcuts too. Windows-M minimizes all Windows. Windows-E opens explorer. There are too many to list, but shortcuts like this are extremely important to me and will boost the productiviity of anyone who knows them well. Using the mouse for window and menu navigation (except moving or resizing) is a huge waste of time.

on a security note.. check this article on how windows does not compare to os X in security.

http://weblog.infoworld.com/enterprisemac/archives/2006/08/is_windows_inhe.html

I fail to see how this is at all relevant in the context of a desktop OS discussion.

No desktop should be directly connected to the Internet. Everything should be behind at least two firewalls -- one connected to the net connection and a software one on the desktop. To do less (on any desktop) is needlessly leaving doors open for an attacker to make use of.

[electrocat]

So there are still no standard keyboard system for navigating menus?

as i said, yes you turn on keyboard navigation in the keyboard prefs.

[FG Lurker]

as i said, yes you turn on keyboard navigation in the keyboard prefs.

No, that is not what you said... You said, "you can do alot with the keyboard by chainging it in the keyboard prefs. Also theres probably some 3rd party apps that do what the prefs wont do."

I'll have to play with it sometime to see if it is as complete as it should be.

[Mulboyne]

For example, if I want to maximize this Firefox window I use alt-space-x. If I want to restore it, alt-space-r.

Very fair observation but I'm afraid that does remind me of this Onion story.

...Turlock insisted that his knowledge of all the shortcut keys, though an anomaly among his peers, is no special gift...

[mr. sparkle]

A Mac Brain? Thanks AO! Yes, I am drunk on the Kool-Aid.

No, that is not what you said... You said, "you can do alot with the keyboard by chainging it in the keyboard prefs. Also theres probably some 3rd party apps that do what the prefs wont do."

I'll have to play with it sometime to see if it is as complete as it should be.

Lurk, there are keyboard shortcuts for everything all over the OS and I do mean everything. You don't need no stinkin' 3rd party app (Keycaps I think he is thinking about). With Tiger, if there is not a shortcut for an operation, you can roll your own.

Here's how:
1. Go to System Prefs > Keyboard and Mouse and then click on "Keyboard Shortcuts". Then, you can see the existing shortcuts for the OS alone.

2. Let's say, you wanted to call up a FireFox menu command that did not already exist, just click on the "+" sign to create a custom shortcut.

3. A dialog pops up and asks
a. Which App? It's a pop up menu you choose from
b. Menu Title? Enter the name of the menu command
c. Keyboard Shortcut? Type your own shortcut
d. Click the Add Button

Done!

[GuyJean]

A guy I know has offered me a one month old iMac 20" 2GHz Core Duo with 1GB memory for 160,000yen..

Good thing you didn't purchase.. It's now ichi-man cheaper brand new:

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?family=iMac

With a new addition; 24 incher..

I've been thinking of an iMac.. Anyone own one, or have experience using one? Any feedback is welcome..

Thanks!

GJ

[cstaylor]

I have the 20" iMac. It's okay... a little pokey off the disk, but otherwise pretty speedy.

[GuyJean]

I have the 20" iMac. It's okay... a little pokey off the disk, but otherwise pretty speedy.

Hhmm. It says it has a 7200 HD.. Shouldn't be pokey, should it? Do you have the minimum RAM?

Anyway, thanks for the info!

GJ

[Charles]

I've been thinking of an iMac.. Anyone own one, or have experience using one? Any feedback is welcome..

I generally recommend against the iMac, especially if you want one with a big screen. What you're buying is basically a modest CPU welded to the back of a Cinema Display. You will probably want to upgrade your CPU long before you even think about upgrading your LCD display. But with an iMac, you can't really upgrade the CPU, so a couple of years down the line you've got a nice big LCD with a boat anchor attached to it.
So my pick would be a nice Mini and a Cinema Display. Later on you can upgrade the Mini to something newer and faster, and your investment in the display won't go to waste.

[Kuang_Grade]

I had one of the first imacs and I was reasonably happy with it for a while but I eventually got tired of the relative low resolution and fuzziness of the LCD display (I also hated that I could never figure out how to turn off the opening chime, which was extremely loud) and opted for a mac mini with a nice sharp and bright sony LCD with X-Bright, which has worked quite well for me over the last year or so. But I'm going to check out these new imacs and their screens to see if they have improved enough to win me back to imac.

[GuyJean]

Some good feedback. Thanks guys!.. It looks like they revamped the specs on the minis too:

$799 Mac Mini moves from 1.66 to 1.83 Intel Core Duo
$599 Mac Mini moves from 1.5 Intel Core solo to 1.66 Intel Core Duo

.. Hhhmm..

GJ

[Greji]

Some good feedback. Thanks guys!.. It looks like they revamped the specs on the minis too:

.. Hhhmm..

GJ

I just ordered a black Macbook loaded up, for my porno viewing plaything. Eat your heart out GJ! I'll be downloading all the Capt'n's secret sites!

[Charles]

Some good feedback. Thanks guys!.. It looks like they revamped the specs on the minis too:

.. Hhhmm..

GJ

Hmm.. I thought the Minis were upgraded to at least 2Ghz. So the iMac is still way out ahead in speed, at up to 2.33Ghz rather than the Mini topping out at 1.83.
Anyway, iMac upgradeability may not be such an issue anymore, as I've heard that all the Intel Macs have the CPU chip in a socket rather than soldered, so it might be possible to replace the chip with a faster model. This might extend an iMac's useful life.
One other interesting tidbit I came across, Ars Technical says the 24in iMac has the same screen rez as the 23in Cinema Display, it's just a little less dense as it's spread out over 24in rather than 23in. Interesting.

But seriously GJ, you deserve a Mac Pro. Quad CPUs are awesome. Splurge. You know you want to.

[Taro Toporific]

I have the 20" iMac. It's okay... a little pokey off the disk, but otherwise pretty speedy.

I have the older 20" iMac G5 (1.8 GHz) and yes the harddisk is a little slow for video work and the standard video card that came with it nVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 is a real drag.

I most strongly recomend that if anyone buys the new 24 inch iMac Core 2 Duo, they should get the upgraded "NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT 256MB SDRAM".
Why?
Because that big 24 inch LCD screen functions as a damn good TV and DVD player. The optional video card handles playback of HD recordings much better. Here in cramped Japanese housing, I watch HD recordings my 20-inch iMac all the time --- it's a hell of a lot better than the TVs and VCRs I used in college. I wish there was an easy way to add a digital tunner to the iMac (not the crappy USB tuners like elGatto).

[Charles]

I have the older 20" iMac G5 (1.8 GHz) and yes the harddisk is a little slow for video work and the standard video card that came with it nVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 is a real drag.

I most strongly recomend that if anyone buys the new 24 inch iMac Core 2 Duo, they should get the upgraded "NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT 256MB SDRAM".

I concur. I always get the upgraded video cards, just the increased memory alone is a huge boost.
Also note the new iMacs have SATA hard drives which have considerably higher performance, compared to a regular ATA drive of similar specs.

[FG Lurker]

Also note the new iMacs have SATA hard drives which have considerably higher performance, compared to a regular ATA drive of similar specs.

Would you care to explain why you believe this to be true, especially in a desktop environment?

[GuyJean]

But seriously GJ, you deserve a Mac Pro. Quad CPUs are awesome. Splurge. You know you want to.

Yes, I know I want to.. I'd love to have a Pro, but space is a bit of an issue. Plus, I'm planning to leave in a couple years, and I don't want to lug around a system that I can use for 5; I've shipped desktops back and forth and it's better just to a buy new systems, IMO..

Of course, I've been saying 'I'm leaving in a couple years' since I arrived.

GJ