Sydney: WWII Japanese Midget Sub found . . . again

[kurohinge1]

[SIZE="4"]Japanese midget sub found after 64 years[/SIZE]


[SIZE="2"]One of the 3 subs, in 1942[/SIZE]

A Japanese midget submarine that disappeared during a wartime raid in Sydney Harbour more than 60 years ago has been discovered by a group of amateur divers.

The story of the accidental discovery and pictures of the submarine —]tonight[/B]].

. . . "It's not a question of hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of hi-tech electrical search gear or anything like that. You've just got these seven amateur scuba divers who have lucked onto this amazing mystery."

. . . Australian and Japanese diplomats are now in dicussions over the M24 and the remains of the two sailors inside.

"Whether they want to raise the vessel, or whether they want to recover the remains of the two Japanese submariners inside and leave the rest of the vessel there, is up to them," Bartlett said.

The government, divers and 60 Minutes staff are still reluctant to discuss the exact location of the craft.

"These guys are really worried that if it becomes public, every man and his dog will want to go and dive on it," Bartlett said.

. . . "In terms of solving the mystery I can tell you that the submarine as it came out of the heads on that fateful night, turned north," Bartlett said.

"I can also tell you it's closer to Sydney than you think. It will surprise some people."

As for the condition of the sub after 60 years under water, Bartlett says it's still intact.

"It's sitting up quite proud on the surface of the ocean bed. There's a bit of sand and silt gathered over time as you'd expect. But it's unmistakable it's the submarine. You'll be really interested when you see the pictures on Sunday night." more (including link to video teaser for 60 Minutes)

[IkemenTommy]

OK.. now someone please insert another seaman joke.

[Charles]

OK.. now someone please insert another seaman joke.

I am outraged. You dare to make jokes about this tragedy? May 31, 1942 is a day that will live in infamy, the day of Australia's Pearl Harbor. Many of Australia's bravest sailors died when a flotilla of 3 Japanese midget submarines, each bearing two deadly torpedoes, crept into Sidney harbor and destroyed the entire Australian naval fleet. It was only a miracle that the midget submarine crews committed suicide before the Australian Government could surrender.

[kurohinge1]

Ignore Charles - he's living proof that "grey hairs do not make a wise man".

The "M24" (the sub just found) was the only one of the 3 midget subs to do anything.

Two were detected and destroyed before they could launch their torpedoes.

The M24 was only damaged. However, it is likely that the damage stopped her from hitting the USS Chicago - her target.

The RAN think that her periscope was damaged by gun fire and that the submariners had to launch their torpedoes from eye, observing from the coning tower - hence why the Chicago was missed and instead a ferry used as accommodation was sunk instead.

Another piece of history.

[Charles]

Another piece of history.

And yet, you minimize the significance of this turning point in history. No doubt this is due to the natural modesty of ozzies and their reluctance to brag about even the most trivial military events, traits that are famous throughout the Queen's Realm and beyond.

But surely, with your modesty, you are dishonoring the memory of the 24 brave ozzie sailors who died in the attack. Maybe the bulk of the Japanese midget sub flotilla failed to hit their mark, but that matters little to those who bravely died, and those who bravely ran away. The loss of two dozen sailors surely represents a decimation of the ranks, a loss that must have taken years to restore to adequate levels. The treacherous Japanese submarines took their toll in one of the first of many victories in the Pacific War. It would take years for the Americans to muster sufficient naval forces to protect the remote shores of Australia from the Japanese midget submarine threat.

[kurohinge1]

. . . [bitter ranting] . . .

[dimwit]

How many midget sub did they make and how many did they actually employ? My assumption is that their lack of seaworthiness made them essentially suicide machines for the occupants which I guess is why the 'progress' to Kaitens was not much of a leap.

[kurohinge1]

How many midget sub did they make and how many did they actually employ? My assumption is that their lack of seaworthiness made them essentially suicide machines for the occupants which I guess is why the 'progress' to Kaitens was not much of a leap.

Actually, it sounds like a number of factors were involved.

From what I understand, midget subs were very hard to manoeuvre and so, originally, only the elite sailors were given the privilege of operating them - their "special forces".

It sounds like they were more "successful" in the Pearl Harbour attack - where 5 were used - than Sydney Harbour, but they were still only a small sideshow to the crippling "efficiency" of the huge aerial attack at Pearl Harbour.

Originally, deploying midget subs from a mother ship to torpedo enemy ships while keeping your own capital ships out of gun range, sounded like a fantastic tactic. But they were slow, hard to operate and easy to spot from aircraft - aircraft changed naval warfare dramatically in WWII, with some sea battles (for the first time) involving no ship-to-ship fighting at all (eg: Battle of the Coral Sea).

It also sounds like the move to suicide ramming was largely caused by a shortage of torpedoes, particularly when they were defending their homeland.

This site has a good history of their development.

See also "Deguchi no Nai Umi (Sea Without Exit)" about the Kaiten (suicide subs) and a new movie about them.

[Charles]

Sub to remain untouched

THE Japanese midget submarine lying five kilometres off Long Reef is almost certain to be left in its underwater grave.
Although a final decision has not been made, compelling arguments against raising the M24 have emerged less than a month after its discovery.
These include the danger of explosives that might still be on board, the potential cost, and the possibility of the wreck disintegrating. ...more...

(after 64 years on the bottom of the ocean, ozzies still fear the Japanese midget sub)

[Captain Japan]

'42 midget sub committed to the deep
Aussies look to protect submerged wreck of brave Japanese pair
Japan Times

SYDNEY -- The wartime midget submarine discovered off the beaches of Sydney is to be left on the ocean floor and is expected to become a permanent tomb for the two crewmen killed inside the vessel after their attack on Sydney Harbour in 1942.

Australian government officials have confirmed that the sub will probably never be raised for various reasons, including technical difficulties. The vessel's discovery last month by amateur divers ended a 64-year mystery about its whereabouts.

The officials also confirmed it is "highly unlikely" any attempt will be made to retrieve the remains of the two young submariners -- known in wartime Japan as "hero gods."

Japanese officials, in close consultation with Canberra, concur with the decision.

Following diplomatic consultations, steps are being taken to introduce as a matter of urgency new technology to increase surveillance over the wreck site some 5 km off Sydney's northern beaches. Currently, a protected zone over the wreck, which lies 50 meters down on the seafloor, is being patrolled by local water police....more...