Kansai Chaos - Hospitals Full

[kurohinge1]

[SIZE="4"]Japanese Woman Miscarried after 9 Hospital Rejections[/SIZE]

A pregnant woman miscarried in western Japan on Wednesday after nine hospitals refused to admit her and the ambulance transporting her crashed on its way to a tenth, news reports said.

The incident triggered an immediate outcry in Japan, where the government has promised to improve medical care for pregnant women as it struggles to reverse a declining birth rate.

The 38-year-old woman, who was in the sixth month of her pregnancy, was being driven to a hospital near the western city of Osaka early Wednesday after she suffered stomach cramps and bleeding, according to Kyodo News agency and other local media.

Nine hospitals closer to her home in Nara prefecture, more than 25 miles away, had refused to admit her, saying they were full, the reports said.

Her water broke two hours into her journey. Ten minutes later, the ambulance collided with a minivan.

She was transferred to another ambulance and reached the Osaka hospital a full three hours after she contacted emergency services, according to Kyodo. But her baby was pronounced dead on arrival, the reports said.

. . . In a similar incident last year, a pregnant woman died in Nara after being refused admission by about 20 hospitals that said they were full . . . more

Maybe the The Health Ministry should teach the Hippocratic Oath to their hospitals instead of "Bureaucracy 101".

[DrP]

Its a multi-fold problem:

1- The hospitals aren't full - they just don't have any obstreticians who are licensed and on-staff to deal with this. So they simply can't admit a patient. And since she's arriving as an 'emergency', they couldn't admit her to a GP - too risky for their insurance policy. A non-admitted patient cannot sue for malpractice.

2- The EMT are barely skilled enough to drive the ambulance to the hospital - hell they even crashed in this case? What are they, rejected Taxi drivers? I've taken a trip in an Ambo in Japan due to food posioning/allergy and I swear I'll take a taxi next time. I had to personally instruct the EMT crew to give me a shot of Benedryl and , oh, some oxygen would be nice since my airways were closing. F*ng idiots.

Now if you CAN get into the maternity program at a good hospital - its darn good. I can't say enough positive things about the way the hospital and staff managed my wife's natal care and subsequent delivery. Though we did take the train and taxi to the hospital when she was going into labor , rather than relying on the keystone kops to manage the task.

[Greji]

Its a multi-fold problem:2- The EMT are barely skilled enough to drive the ambulance to the hospital -

DocP's spot on here. At one time, before the fairly recent introduction of EMTs and Paramedics, most of the ambulances were private, either hospital or a totally private company.

The Ambulance drivers of old, would make a determination at the scene if there was a possibility that the patient could die in route, or could suffer major problems. If they decided so, they would not transport the patient and there was nothing you could do about it. The reason obviously, was over who would be responsible if the patient died, or obtained serious injuries while in the ambulance. The police at an accident/incident scene could not make them transport a vicitm. If refused by those drivers, any transport would have to wait until the Fire Department, or Police affiliated ambulance service arrived.

Further, a good majority of these private drivers were not paramedics and their only real training was experience behind the wheel of a blinking red light.

[dimwit]

Its a multi-fold problem:



2- The EMT are barely skilled enough to drive the ambulance to the hospital - hell they even crashed in this case? What are they, rejected Taxi drivers? I've taken a trip in an Ambo in Japan due to food posioning/allergy and I swear I'll take a taxi next time. I had to personally instruct the EMT crew to give me a shot of Benedryl and , oh, some oxygen would be nice since my airways were closing. F*ng idiots.

As far as I know paramedics don't exist in Japan. An ambulance driver is simply that. I have be told that this is because the JMA does want paramedicals tredding on their turf.

[Charles]

This is why the US has a law requiring any publicly funded hospital (basically all of them) to admit any patient in need. I mean seriously, how hard can it be to deliver a baby in a hospital full of doctors, even if they're not OB/GYN? Women used to deliver a baby all by themselves, squatting under a bush in the wilderness, back before there were hospitals (or even civilization). Hell, I've never delivered a baby, but I suppose I could, back in high school Health class they showed us that movie and said we were now prepared for this sort of emergency.

[ttjereth]

This is why the US has a law requiring any publicly funded hospital (basically all of them) to admit any patient in need. I mean seriously, how hard can it be to deliver a baby in a hospital full of doctors, even if they're not OB/GYN? Women used to deliver a baby all by themselves, squatting under a bush in the wilderness, back before there were hospitals (or even civilization). Hell, I've never delivered a baby, but I suppose I could, back in high school Health class they showed us that movie and said we were now prepared for this sort of emergency.

Not to defend the jackasses involved here, but this was a 3 month premature birth with complications (whatever was causing the pain?) so (and this is totally guessing since I don't have the first clue about any sort of medical treatment I haven't personally undergone) it might have been a bit more complicated than a regular delivery?

[Charles]

Not to defend the jackasses involved here, but this was a 3 month premature birth with complications (whatever was causing the pain?) so (and this is totally guessing since I don't have the first clue about any sort of medical treatment I haven't personally undergone) it might have been a bit more complicated than a regular delivery?

Well, you do have a point there. But judging from the scant details in the story, she seemed to be doing mostly OK up until the crash.

[DrP]

6mo premie is not necessarily a death sentence - the real problem here is that you are combining a lack of immediate (EMT) care with a lack of qualified obstretic licensed physicians. That adds to pretty much - well - this result. In the US, if the ambo is rejected , then they'll hit the nearest ED and claim the hippocratic oath. Rarely is anyone rejected - especially a woman in premature labor. Japan is struggling with the birth rate issues on one hand, yet in complete denial about the necessity of sufficient infrastructure (including medical care) to adequately provide for the pre/natal demands of a 'regular' population cycle. As anything else in japan, when the work flow process fails, it fails entirely. There is no creative contingency or alternate solution. its always denial, apology , suicide -- or in this case needless death.

[Mulboyne]

...As anything else in japan, when the work flow process fails, it fails entirely. There is no creative contingency or alternate solution. its always denial...

Mainichi: Communications breakdown blamed for deadly Nara ambulance fiasco

...A clerk at the Nara Medical University Hospital received a request from Kashihara Fire Station to accept the 38-year-old woman in the early hours of Wednesday, and passed the request on to a doctor at its obstetrics and gynecology department who was handling emergency cases. The doctor responded to the clerk, "I'm examining a patient, so I'd like you to wait." The clerk then told the fire station, "We are examining another patient, and may have to perform an operation." The fire station thought that the hospital was refusing to accept the woman. However, the doctor subsequently told prefectural government officials during questioning that he had no intention of refusing to accept the woman...more...

It sounds like the doctor is protesting "I didn't say no" and passing the buck to the poor schmuck who understood him all too well to mean "Don't let her in" but didn't get it in writing.

[ttjereth]

I think I remember reading recently (possibly here) about there being a shortage of qualified obstratricians in Japan.

I know out in the boondocks it can be a pain in the ass to get to any doctor and there generally isn't any freedom to actually choose a doctor no matter how much of a ranting old witch doctor the geezer is.

I actually caught mono from an ear, nose and throat specialist in Tochigi because his office and equipment wasn't sanitary enough...

[Samurai_Jerk]

A foreign woman seeking medical help in Japan after giving birth at home was rejected by five hospitals where officials said her Japanese wasn't good enough and they didn't have proper facilities, authorities said Thursday.

The woman, in her 20s, was finally admitted to one of the hospitals after begging to be treated over two hours, during which two of the hospitals rejected her twice, said Takaaki Uchida, an official in Tsu.

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[gomichild]

The woman had never consulted a doctor at a maternity clinic during her pregnancy, a fact that also made it difficult for her to find a hospital, Tsu City fire official Yoshinobu Sakurai said.

Possibly letting the cat out of the bag a little early - but I now have first hand experience of the whole being pregnant in Japan deal and what medical care is like.

When I first saundered into the local maternity clinic several weeks ago to confirm the pee-on-stick test was correct I was asked from the beginning whether I wanted to have the baby at the clinic or elsewhere. They like to have you booked in early it seems.

Also I have had weekly ultrasounds, blood screenings, tests for diseases and cancer. I had been seeing two different doctors at my clinic - one of them was flustered because he couldn't speak English (even though all the nurses spoke Japanese to me and I replied in Japanese), and so he would barely explain anything, so I explained to the receptionists today that I had trouble communicating with him so would prefer to only see the other doctor (who talks more than a flock of Kansai Babas). They didn't treat that as a problem at all - they just said OK and I got to see the doctor I wanted.

So quite frankly I can't believe you wouldn't regularly check in with a clinic of some sort - regardless of your language ability. I'm not saying she deserved what happened - but she did have 9 months to make a plan about what would happen.

[Mike Oxlong]

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Crap, Tsu is full of Brazilians, and has been for many, many years. The community outta have a little assistance for foreign nationals in place by now. And the local Brazilians probably have some sort of mutual support for newcomers and those with limited language ability. No need for this sorta thing to happen.

[Mike Oxlong]

Possibly letting the cat out of the bag a little early - but I now have first hand experience of the whole being pregnant in Japan deal and what medical care is like.

Congrats!!!

[dimwit]

Possibly letting the cat out of the bag a little early - but I now have first hand experience of the whole being pregnant in Japan deal and what medical care is like.

Good luck. Generally, my experience was been that most obstetricians for some reason tend to be less competent in foriegn languages than other fields of medicine. God knows why! Finding a good one that is familar with foreign births is really very important.

[Greji]

Possibly letting the cat out of the bag a little early - but I now have first hand experience of the whole being pregnant in Japan deal and what medical care is like.

Grats also. Just a brief comment. I don't know why there is this sudden lack of treatment or refusals thereof, that is flying around the web and the newspapers. My other half, although a local rice cooker, had two kids in the US military hospitals here and four in J-hospitals. The care was just as good in the J-places and in a lot of respects, a bit better, possibly from the FG angle. I assume there must be something to all these new stories, but we sure never experienced anything like it from the J-OB/GYNs and prenatal units.
Insert horror stories here......

[ttjereth]

Grats also. Just a brief comment. I don't know why there is this sudden lack of treatment or refusals thereof, that is flying around the web and the newspapers. My other half, although a local rice cooker, had two kids in the US military hospitals here and four in J-hospitals. The care was just as good in the J-places and in a lot of respects, a bit better, possibly from the FG angle. I assume there must be something to all these new stories, but we sure never experienced anything like it from the J-OB/GYNs and prenatal units.
Insert horror stories here......

1. Are you attempting to single handedly correct Japan's declining population?

2. I think a lot of the horror stories are from out in the boonies, or otherwise area specific and almost all of them are well outside of Tokyo, so your better experiences might have been because of location?

[Greji]

1. Are you attempting to single handedly correct Japan's declining population?

Ahh, those are only ones which are registered with the Jockey Club. We won't discuss any others that might be around.

[Mulboyne]

This is an odd one. I don't think I support this woman's decision but it can't be right to deny her medical care because you don't approve.

Mainichi: Single Japanese woman in her 60s gets pregnant with fertilized egg donated in U.S.

A single woman in her 60s who had a donated fertilized egg implanted into her body in the United States has returned to Japan and is in her 15th week of pregnancy, it has been learned. The woman's pregnancy was announced by Yahiro Netsu, head of the Suwa Maternity Clinic in Shimosuwa, Nagano Prefecture. Netsu said the woman visited several medical facilities following her return to Japan asking for clinical examinations, but she was refused. In September this year, she visited the Suwa Maternity Clinic. While the pregnancy involves health risks because of the woman's age, and there is a possibility that problems could emerge between the mother and child over their biological relationship, Netsu said he decided to accept the woman as a patient because she wanted to have the pregnancy.

In 2001, a woman in her 60s became pregnant with her husband's sperm and an egg donated in the United States, and she gave birth in Japan. However, the latest case involving a single woman in her 60s who has received both the sperm and ovum from third parties is rare. In 2003, a Health, Labor and Welfare Ministry committee on assisted reproductive technology filed a report concluding that it was permissible for infertile couples to receive fertilized eggs from third parties. However, this did not include cases in which the person was a single woman. Netsu said a system was needed to help women in such circumstances. "In terms of medical treatment, it's a problem for a patient to be shunned from one place to the other. We should consider a system to accept patients like this, albeit for emergency shelter," he said.

[Greji]

This is an odd one. I don't think I support this woman's decision but it can't be right to deny her medical care because you don't approve.

Mainichi: Single Japanese woman in her 60s gets pregnant with fertilized egg donated in U.S.

Well, at least my wife can't blame this one on me!

[Tommybar]

'I've taken a trip in an Ambo in Japan due to food posioning/allergy and I swear I'll take a taxi next time.'

After recently having a infarction, my wife call the local fire department to find out what hospital was open at 2 a.m. and could address my problem. She call the hospital and told them we were on our way, the hospital said that we were required to arrive in an ambalance otherwise we would not be admitted.

[Samurai_Jerk]

A 69-year-old Japanese man injured in a traffic accident died after paramedics spent more than an hour negotiating with 14 hospitals before one admitted him, a fire department official said Wednesday.

The man, whose bicycle collided with a motorcycle in the western city of Itami, waited at the scene in an ambulance because the hospitals said they could not accept him, citing a lack of specialists, equipment, beds and staff, according to Mitsuhisa Ikemoto. One of the 14 finally admitted the man when the paramedics called it for a second time.

It was the latest in a string of recent cases in Japan in which patients were denied treatment, underscoring the country's health care woes that include a shortage of doctors.

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