Buying/Building a house/Imported Houses

[ttjereth]

[Nobody]

Thanks for your reply and the links. They will be helpful.
Just found this one which I find quite handy.
http://www.onyourside-housing.net/research/index.html

[PINK-STEEL]

Not on the house scene, but I felt that I must comment on this statement. It is the result of any FG dumb enough to marry a J-female and expect an even break. When I got married, my J-father-in-law told me during the mass drenching of sake at the Hiroen, that "this is one Nichibei Sensou, that Japan is going to win".

When I asked him why he would say that, he said that he had been married to a Japanese woman for 40 years and had as a Japanese, never come close to winning a fufukenka with my wife's mother. He dutifully noted that since I was an FG, I didn't have the slightest possible chance to even get a word in edgewise!

He turned out to be very astute....

Sorry for the delay in replying. First...G-man..you are a man after my own heart....but don't take that the wrong way--I don't do BJJ..haha.

Yep, when I say "obeyed and sprayed" I mean exactly what you say, obey but don't surrender..hence "spray."

Glad to know that there are more fucked up FGs in similar war zones!!! Strength (counselling? haha) in numbers, comrade!!!

PS

[PINK-STEEL]

[Nobody]

Thank you

[kusai Jijii]

Ok fuck it,
seeing as we are collecting a range of experiences here, I'll tip my hand.

I built a home thru Panahome and moved in Feb last year. It was a difficult decision for me and one I didnt take lightly. I payed thru the nose. If it were not for the fact that my wife's dad wasnt a retired Matsushita boy and by him co-signing the contract (despite the fact I am 100% responsible for the loan and 100% own the title) thus giving us a lower than low interest loan on the house, i would have gone elsewhere. Having said that, I thought that if I was going to build a house, it better bloody well still be standing when I finish the last payment (in 34 years) which is something you cant gaurentee with many Japanese building companies. I wanted something I could rest asured I could pass on to my kids.
ucking stupid in some respects, but wise in others. Anyway, shoot...
F

[Grumblebum]

We're currently rehammering out our plans, trying to do away with any and all "unnecessary" space. As it stand the second floor of the house is starting to look like you are going to go up the stairs and just be faced with 5 doors. No hallway, landings or anything

This is largely a personal preference, but in my opinion you should try and build the actual house as large as possible, especially if it is 2x4/2x6.
Reason being, its easier to add the odd extra interior wall to make new rooms later on than it is to add a whole extension if you end up needing it.
If you do the design right, you can start with a nice, open design with lots of space (and maybe a bit cheaper), and have the flexibility of being able to make extra rooms later without a lot of expense.

Also keep in mind that (depending on the builder to some extent) the tsubo pricing system is just there to give you an idea of what your house should cost. It doesn't necessarily mean that a house of size A will definitely cost A*price/tsubo.
If you come up with a very simple design with very few 'fancy' bits, and minimal features, you should be able to keep the price down and still have a large, flexible structure. So you really need to look beyond the tsubo price and see how flexible the builder will be.

Ie, if you have the land then you can just build a big rectangular house - by far the cheapest design. Costs go up when you have odd shapes and funny angles.

One last thing - flooring can account for a fair chunk of the money, so see what cheap options there are. Also keep in mind that you don't have to use the same type of flooring all over - ie, you could get some nice stuff for the common living areas, but go for ultra cheap stuff for bedrooms.

[ttjereth]

This is largely a personal preference, but in my opinion you should try and build the actual house as large as possible, especially if it is 2x4/2x6.
Reason being, its easier to add the odd extra interior wall to make new rooms later on than it is to add a whole extension if you end up needing it.
If you do the design right, you can start with a nice, open design with lots of space (and maybe a bit cheaper), and have the flexibility of being able to make extra rooms later without a lot of expense.

Also keep in mind that (depending on the builder to some extent) the tsubo pricing system is just there to give you an idea of what your house should cost. It doesn't necessarily mean that a house of size A will definitely cost A*price/tsubo.
If you come up with a very simple design with very few 'fancy' bits, and minimal features, you should be able to keep the price down and still have a large, flexible structure. So you really need to look beyond the tsubo price and see how flexible the builder will be.

Ie, if you have the land then you can just build a big rectangular house - by far the cheapest design. Costs go up when you have odd shapes and funny angles.

One last thing - flooring can account for a fair chunk of the money, so see what cheap options there are. Also keep in mind that you don't have to use the same type of flooring all over - ie, you could get some nice stuff for the common living areas, but go for ultra cheap stuff for bedrooms.

Thanks for the hints. We plan to more or less give a few companies our plans with "we want this stuff, we have this much money" what can you do, and see who comes up with something good. I'm all for a big rectangle and honestly don't give two shits about what the exterior looks like (aluminum siding all the way for all I care anymore), so hopefully we'll be able to work something out.

Flooring isn't too huge of a priority either, since we will probably go with carpeting in most of the house and tile or linoleum or something in the kitchen\bathrooms, so it's good to know we can save money there. Don't need expensive, good looking wood, if it's just going to be covered anyway. So long as it holds up, we should good.

Again, honestly thanks for all the info, always good to have more information.

[Nobody]

I built a home thru Panahome and moved in Feb last year. (...) I thought that if I was going to build a house, it better bloody well still be standing when I finish the last payment (in 34 years) which is something you cant guarantee with many Japanese building companies.(...)
F

Thank you. I have been considering inquiring with Panahome based only on bits of information I found on the Internet, and your input backs up my thinking. I'd like a steel-structure home ... if I can afford it.

Got to go

[Blah Pete]

Since the subject has sunk to the floor level, has anyone checked out the heated floor systems that seem to be gaining in popularity. I looked into a retrofit from Tokyo Gas in my used place but I will be moving in a year so I passed it up.
Heating the floor seems to be more energy efficient and can actually warm the room. I have stayed in hotel rooms in Korea where the only source of heat was the heated floor and the rooms were very warm.

[Bucky]

You might just give these guys a call. I have been told the following:

2112 Corporation. The owner of the company is American and lives in Japan -- building 2x4 custom homes.

2112 Japan Office
4-3-27 Seike-machi
Oita, Japan
tel 080-5202-8695
fax: 097-569-3022
email: [email="two112corp@hotmail.colm"]two112corp@hotmail.com[/email]

[ttjereth]

You might just give these guys a call. I have been told the following:


2112 Japan Office
4-3-27 Seike-machi
Oita, Japan
tel 080-5202-8695
fax: 097-569-3022
email: [email="two112corp@hotmail.colm"]two112corp@hotmail.com[/email]

Any sort of business using hotmail makes me nervous...

[ttjereth]

Since the subject has sunk to the floor level, has anyone checked out the heated floor systems that seem to be gaining in popularity. I looked into a retrofit from Tokyo Gas in my used place but I will be moving in a year so I passed it up.
Heating the floor seems to be more energy efficient and can actually warm the room. I have stayed in hotel rooms in Korea where the only source of heat was the heated floor and the rooms were very warm.

They've had it in a few of the model houses I've been to, and it was nice in that you didn't get the ice cold wooden or tile floors that you would normally have, but all the accounts I've read from people who have it in their homes (mainly Japanese), it doesn't work for anything other than making the floor warm, so they may possibly be different than the Korean systems you mentioned.

Honestly though, I am not sure how comfortable heated floors could make a room through heating without being unbearably hot to walk on themselves? We have any physicists in here who can do the math?

[Grumblebum]

Honestly though, I am not sure how comfortable heated floors could make a room through heating without being unbearably hot to walk on themselves? We have any physicists in here who can do the math?

I imagine it depends on how many hours you have it turned on..

One of our neigbours has it in their living/dining area, and according to them they feel that they don't use alternative room heating as much as they would have without the floor heating.

We don't have any in our place - having the basement means that the floor directly above it(the living/dining/kitchen area) never gets any colder than the basement, and the lowest temperature we've ever had in the basement is about 14 degrees. And thats with no heating or anything (well, apart from my computer running..) The floor in the basement doesn't get excessively cold either - its just rubber backed flooring directly on the concrete slab.

[ttjereth]

[TennoChinko]

[Samurai_Jerk]

I know this article is almost six years old, but I am wondering if anything has changed w/r consumer rights. One of the offending companies named in the article is Mitsui Real Estate - so it's not like sticking with a well-regarded brand name offers any sort of protection...


http://www.davidappleyard.com/japan/jp17.htm

This paragraph says it all:

The wake-up call was the magnitude 7.2 earthquake that slammed Kobe in early 1995 killing 6,400 people. As workers cleared the rubble left by some 440,000 collapsed buildings, it soon became apparent that many new houses built by name-brand Japanese developers had collapsed while older houses, including many using foreign construction materials and methods, stood firm.

I'm confused. I though only things Japanese were anzen and anshin.

[Mike Oxlong]

Homeowner Nagako Itoga lifted up a tatami mat to reveal a corner beam of her \32.5 Million house almost completely detached from the foundation. Then she pointed out the unsound roof supports, tilting hallways and floorboards so rotten the ground is visible below.

"I'm so angry with this atrocious construction, I considered lighting myself on fire with kerosene in front of the government building," she said "But my daughter pointed out that it would be far better to stay alive and fight those responsible for this mess."

Not the first thought that pops into my head when royally ripped off...

[Nobody]

I used to wear a down jacket when typing on my PC in winter.
Then I bought this for \500 at the local DIY store:
http://www.rakuten.co.jp/brico/747728/747729/#765497
Money well spent as far I am concerned.


Most books I read about buying/building a home write that the Quality Assurance Law （品確法)
has brought real progress in 2000. If I am not mistaken, the law has enforced a mandatory 10-year warranty, plus a standard evaluation system (住宅性能保証制度), which is voluntary but adopted by big builders. The system includes the evaluation of earthquake resistance, fire-resistance, etc.

Sure this system is not perfect, but if I can afford it, I'll feel safer with some sort of added protection
like a 20 or 30-year warranty on top of the mandatory 10-year warranty.

[ttjereth]

[Behan]

Sorry if this is already posted here, but what I heard about zairai-koho is that it does worse in earthquakes than 2x4 or 2x6 construction.
Actually, I think it was a video given to us by Selco that said that with zairai-koho the wooden beams are further apart, although they have a diagonal beam between them, and they can twist more when an earthquake happens.
With 2x4 or 2x6 there are a lot more posts so the walls are a lot more rigid and they will twist less.
Have you heard much about metal-framed houses? I was surprised to see how a neighborhood house's entire frame was made by metal. Only the roof beams were wooden. I suppose they might have used wood for interior walls, though. It must be an incredibly strong house and of course it won't rot but I don't know how fast it will rust or corrode. It could be a lot pricier, too.
Anyway, good luck with everything.

[ttjereth]

Sorry if this is already posted here, but what I heard about zairai-koho is that it does worse in earthquakes than 2x4 or 2x6 construction.
Actually, I think it was a video given to us by Selco that said that with zairai-koho the wooden beams are further apart, although they have a diagonal beam between them, and they can twist more when an earthquake happens.
With 2x4 or 2x6 there are a lot more posts so the walls are a lot more rigid and they will twist less.
Have you heard much about metal-framed houses? I was surprised to see how a neighborhood house's entire frame was made by metal. Only the roof beams were wooden. I suppose they might have used wood for interior walls, though. It must be an incredibly strong house and of course it won't rot but I don't know how fast it will rust or corrode. It could be a lot pricier, too.
Anyway, good luck with everything.

Yeah, plenty of the companies that use the Japanese methods have pages of information about why it is better too. Obviously each company is going to try and support the method they use, but it does seem that 2x4 and 2x6 seems to be the most recommended methods by third parties.

As for steel framing, you can read some information here:
http://www.pmhi.com/SubTopic-SteelFraming.htm

• GALVANIC CORROSION: When other common metals are used in residential construction, primarily copper water pipes, they can not be in direct contact with galvanized metal studs. Such contact will eventually lead to corrosion and deterioration of the two materials.
• THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY: Metal is a far better conductor of heat and cold than wood. Hence, all metal studs in exterior walls must be insulated to avoid excess heat transfer through the wall system and condensation damage on all interior surfaces of exterior walls at the studs.
• STRENGTH: Common metal framing members only exceed similar wood members in compression and tension, not in deflection. Hence metal members require more bracing to be of equal value. (Simply hold a metal stud in one hand and a wood stud in the other and shake them...you will understand this difference.)
• NUMBER OF PARTS: To solve the problems listed above, a metal-framed building requires more parts (which means increased costs in material and labor for assembly) than a similar wood-framed building. For example, grommets are required to protect pipes and wires passing through the metal stud.
• STRUCTURAL FAILURE IN A FIRE: This is our primary concern. When any metal is exposed to increased heat, such as temperatures common in a house fire, it will suddenly fail structurally when it losses its temper. In contrast, wood will actually retain its strength, even when burning, until it looses sufficient area to support itself. Ask any fireman about their concerns of fighting a fire in a metal framed building.

[Grumblebum]

When we actually get around to building ours, we plan on spending the extra 1,000,000 yen to have a third party oversee and inspect the construction as it goes on. For a bit more surety that the house won't fall on our heads when we build it, I figure it's worth the money.

I can't remember the name of the organisation or the cost, but when we built inspections by this third party organisation were included by default. I'm pretty sure it was a lot less than 1,000,000yen though. The inspections were done at set stages during the construction process and the reports which came directly to us were quite detailed.

Of course, there's no substitute for your own eyes - we made sure we visited the site at least once a week, and without warning the builders too. I also did as much research as possible about what was being built for us, so I had an idea about what the construction should look like, and could talk to the workers without looking like a complete idiot.
Of course, we always made sure we took along a good assortment of drinks and nibblies for the workers too..

If we'd been living closer to the site I would have been out there even more frequently.

[ttjereth]

I can't remember the name of the organisation or the cost, but when we built inspections by this third party organisation were included by default. I'm pretty sure it was a lot less than 1,000,000yen though. The inspections were done at set stages during the construction process and the reports which came directly to us were quite detailed.

Of course, there's no substitute for your own eyes - we made sure we visited the site at least once a week, and without warning the builders too. I also did as much research as possible about what was being built for us, so I had an idea about what the construction should look like, and could talk to the workers without looking like a complete idiot.
Of course, we always made sure we took along a good assortment of drinks and nibblies for the workers too..

If we'd been living closer to the site I would have been out there even more frequently.

Some companies offer third party inspections (although I wonder how thorough a third party inspection is by a third party contracted by the construction company, can that even really be said to be a third party anymore...) and I have heard tell that they are mandatory in some regions, but there are actual services that will have engineers and builders inspect the house as it goes up as compared to your plans and contract and make sure not only that everything is to code, but that you get what you are paying for, that's the type of service I am planning on using.

Since we'll be building fairly far away from where we are now as well, we will probably end up renting a little one room apartment for awhile while the house goes up, since it works out cheaper than the crappy hotels out in the sticks. Once the house starts going up, I want to see as much of the process as possible, just so that I know how my own house is built for future maintenance and such.

The amount many Japanese acquantainces (including the parents in law) don't know about their own houses always amazes me...

I've heard about the taking drinks and stuff to the workers when visiting the site, I guess root beer would be a bad idea, huh?

[Greji]

I've heard about the taking drinks and stuff to the workers when visiting the site, I guess root beer would be a bad idea, huh?

You're probably talking about the tatemae. This is officially the ceremony held when the roof is completed and the shinto priest blesses the house. The work for the day stops at that point and you are required to get the drunken daikesan tachi fed and drunker yet. The alleged idea behind this is that if they enjoy your treatment of them at this party, they will endeavor to complete your house in the best of form and refrain from such practices as hanging the doors sideways, forgetting such trivial things as omitting every other step in the stairs and so forth.

[ttjereth]

You're probably talking about the tatemae. This is officially the ceremony held when the roof is completed and the shinto priest blesses the house. The work for the day stops at that point and you are required to get the drunken daikesan tachi fed and drunker yet. The alleged idea behind this is that if they enjoy your treatment of them at this party, they will endeavor to complete your house in the best of form and refrain from such practices as hanging the doors sideways, forgetting such trivial things as omitting every other step in the stairs and so forth.

No, I mean when visiting the construction site while the house is still going up, it is considered polite to buy a bunch of pet bottles of ocha and such and maybe some bento for the builders. Helps to keep them from getting too surly about you interrupting their work (despite the fact its your house and all that).

[Grumblebum]

No, I mean when visiting the construction site while the house is still going up, it is considered polite to buy a bunch of pet bottles of ocha and such and maybe some bento for the builders. Helps to keep them from getting too surly about you interrupting their work (despite the fact its your house and all that).

Yeah, thats basically what we did - I tried to be as generous and friendly to the builders as possible. My motives were of course selfish, but making the effort is worth it.

We didn't do any fancy ceremony for ours - the construction company more or less insisted that we do the bare essentials of tossing sake and salt in each corner of the house, but that was about it.

[Greji]

(despite the fact its your house and all that).

That's true, but TIJ! You don't visit anyone or any business without the mandatory omiyagi of some sort, least you be considered a Jamamushi, or uncouth lout anyway.....

[Nobody]

[kusai Jijii]

Good luck with everything Nobody.
As you know, I went with Panahome. If you are thinking of going down that line (and I dont give a shit if you do or dont) PM me if you want the ins and outs from my perspective.
KJ