Let's talk money

[SuperTanuki]

Hi people,

First up, my account's new but I've been one super-silent lurker around here since one fellow fucked gaijin told me to quit posting on gaijinpot, which he quite rightly pointed out was full of arrogant and slit-my-wrist gloomy tossers. Never a positive word to say.

On that complimentary note to the clearly more approachable, brighter-minded peeps in here, I've finally decided to break the stalker silence and ask for you guys' advice.

I'll (try to) keep this short. I'm a games Journolist (of ten years) in London. My girlfriend (a nursery nurse) and I want to go to Japan to study Japanese full time. We'd like to work part time on the side, and I've got the backing of a few websites, magazines (and a TV studio) in UK who say they'll use me on freelance terms for regular japanese features, video blogs and previews.

There must be more than a few of you doing this very thing right now (Mulboyne!!! You here man?), so I just want to know how it all works out financially. Roughly how much cash money will we need in advance and, considering tuition, travel, accomodation and living expenses, how much will we need each month? How feasible/achievable is this, and what PT jobs should I be looking for.

Oh, and we'd ideally like to be in Tokyo, although Yokohama (which, I'm told by a friend who lives there, is quite a bit cheaper) is also on the radar.

Damn - I always write too much - sorry guys. Any help would be very much appreciated.

[kamome]

Hi people,

First up, my account's new but I've been one super-silent lurker around here since one fellow fucked gaijin told me to quit posting on gaijinpot, which he quite rightly pointed out was full of arrogant and slit-my-wrist gloomy tossers. Never a positive word to say.

On that complimentary note to the clearly more approachable, brighter-minded peeps in here, I've finally decided to break the stalker silence and ask for you guys' advice.

I'll (try to) keep this short. I'm a games Journolist (of ten years) in London. My girlfriend (a nursery nurse) and I want to go to Japan to study Japanese full time. We'd like to work part time on the side, and I've got the backing of a few websites, magazines (and a TV studio) in UK who say they'll use me on freelance terms for regular japanese features, video blogs and previews.

There must be more than a few of you doing this very thing right now (Mulboyne!!! You here man?), so I just want to know how it all works out financially. Roughly how much cash money will we need in advance and, considering tuition, travel, accomodation and living expenses, how much will we need each month? How feasible/achievable is this, and what PT jobs should I be looking for.

Oh, and we'd ideally like to be in Tokyo, although Yokohama (which, I'm told by a friend who lives there, is quite a bit cheaper) is also on the radar.

Damn - I always write too much - sorry guys. Any help would be very much appreciated.

FG member, Captain Japan, can lend some insight as well.

[Charles]

I'm a games Journolist (of ten years) in London. My girlfriend (a nursery nurse) and I want to go to Japan to study Japanese full time.

Maybe you should study English. ]O[/I]lism in Japan AND not being fluent in the language.

You don't have to go to Japan to study Japanese. I would seriously recommend that you spend considerable effort learning the language before moving there. Japan is an expensive place to learn the basics that you could learn on your own, anywhere. You need "immersion" to achieve fluency, not to learn the basics.

My advice: don't quit your day job. See if they'll pay your expenses for a prolonged visit before you commit to moving there. Hell, you never know, you might hate living in Japan. But if you love it, you'll get a better perspective firsthand, maybe even start making contacts that will make it possible for you to carve out your niche in Japan.

I always say that nothing could possibly prepare you for the experience of long-term living in Japan. No book, no sage advice, will be of much use in preparing you. Just go over on a 90 day tourist visa, scrounge around for a few stories to pay your way, see what develops.

Oh.. BTW, be sure that this is what you want. I have a friend who is a games journalist and is completely fluent in Japanese, she's struggling to make a living. Apparently there just aren't that many sites that pay for stories on Japanese games that nobody outside Japan can buy. From what I hear, she's mostly doing localization, converting Japanese games to English.

[ttjereth]

From what I hear, she's mostly doing localization, converting Japanese games to English.

Which, although it can be fun, is generally the lowest paying of all translation jobs.

Seriously, I get more money for the average STUDENT research paper than I do for most game translations

[AssKissinger]

Gee Charles, did you notice he misspelled a word? You're really fucking clever!

[Captain Japan]

The freelance market for English material in Japan is rough. The only place to make any kind of real money is overseas. My suggestion: sell yourself to as very many overseas publications interested in Japanese content before you leave.

[SuperTanuki]

I knew someone would pull me up on a type-o - ironic that it had to be that word. Heh.

Cheers for the advice all, particularly Charles. I must say, figuring this 'I want to go to Japan for a year or two' gig out is proving frustrating. I've been networking and researching this for months now. Check out the patter:

Speak to fellow journo/designer that's been in Japan for years and loves it - Feel encouraged. Get a plan with their advice. Slap said plan on Gaigin forum for their take. Get shot down. Meet and speak to another happy gaijin in my industry. Feel encouraged. Devise new plan. Post on Forum. Get shot down. Repeat x 4.

Charles - those incompatibles. First, what if we came in on student visas to study three times a week - would you see that working better with PT work (I know there's a limit to work hours).

Second, the girlfriend. She's as keen to go as I. One guy, actually the one who forwarded me this site, saw our partnership in this as a positive, costs wise. Our appartment costs would be halved, for example.

Third, I know of a few Journos that have gone to be a freelance Japan correspondent for US and UK publications. It didn't matter that they couldn't speak fluently to Nintendo or Sega - just being there meant you could get to events, write about new crazes and do features that those publications otherwise can't/wouldn't think of.

In terms of studying, I've already learned the bare basics, and am studying at the moment in London (IIEL).

And "carving out my niche in Japan" is exactly what I want to do, but every time I devise a plan just to get my feet on Japanese soil for a few months to a year, forums shoot it down. My company paying is out of the question. WH visa was my first plan, but someone advised me to go for the Student gig instead.

Its funny - I know of and hear of students, journos and others going to japan all the time, learning some japanese, doing some work, meeting some people, and coming back a year or two or even three later having had a fucking awesome time. Some of those are people with equal or even less experience, money, contacts and planning than I, and they manage it.

I want to know how to do that.

[Charles]

I knew someone would pull me up on a type-o - ironic that it had to be that word. Heh.

Cheers for the advice all, particularly Charles. I must say, figuring this 'I want to go to Japan for a year or two' gig out is proving frustrating. I've been networking and researching this for months now. Check out the patter:

Speak to fellow journo/designer that's been in Japan for years and loves it - Feel encouraged. Get a plan with their advice. Slap said plan on Gaigin forum for their take. Get shot down. Meet and speak to another happy gaijin in my industry. Feel encouraged. Devise new plan. Post on Forum. Get shot down. Repeat x 4.

Charles - those incompatibles. First, what if we came in on student visas to study three times a week - would you see that working better with PT work (I know there's a limit to work hours).

Second, the girlfriend. She's as keen to go as I. One guy, actually the one who forwarded me this site, saw our partnership in this as a positive, costs wise. Our appartment costs would be halved, for example.

Third, I know of a few Journos that have gone to be a freelance Japan correspondent for US and UK publications. It didn't matter that they couldn't speak fluently to Nintendo or Sega - just being there meant you could get to events, write about new crazes and do features that those publications otherwise can't/wouldn't think of.

In terms of studying, I've already learned the bare basics, and am studying at the moment in London (IIEL).

And "carving out my niche in Japan" is exactly what I want to do, but every time I devise a plan just to get my feet on Japanese soil for a few months to a year, forums shoot it down. My company paying is out of the question. WH visa was my first plan, but someone advised me to go for the Student gig instead.

Its funny - I know of and hear of students, journos and others going to japan all the time, learning some japanese, doing some work, meeting some people, and coming back a year or two or even three later having had a fucking awesome time. Some of those are people with equal or even less experience, money, contacts and planning than I, and they manage it.

I want to know how to do that.

It's good to hear that your GF wants to go too, I know one married couple who went, both of them as English teachers, the woman was really into it, but the husband ended up hating it. They split up. Just a fair warning, for those couples whose expectations may not be in sync.

The working/studying conflict is a legal one, there are restrictions on what types of jobs you can legally work in, but don't ask me about the specifics, there are others who are actually in this situation who could advise you better.

IMHO you'd probably be better off maximizing your study efforts while on a first prolonged visit, the language is your key to unlocking a career as you have described. Any gaijin can go over to cover events, we even have a thread here on FG for them, entitled "Another newbie reporter 'discovers' Japan." But the fluent ones are the ones who get the interviews and provide detailed coverage worth reading.

So you want to know how to do that? If I was in your position, I'd try to line up a 30 to 90 day trip on a tourist or journalist visa, to coincide with some event that will be worth covering as a freelancer, maybe the Tokyo Game Show or something. Try to line up some stories to cover before you go over. Stay in a cheap hotel (they do exist), maybe a backpacker hotel or something scummy but affordable. Time in Japan equals money, you want to reduce your "burn rate" if you're spending your own money, so you can trade cushy living conditions for extra time. Fluency also equals money, you can do everything cheaper if you can deal with the language, and live as the locals do. I met people who spoke no Japanese who would rather take a 10000Y cab ride than "risk" a 180Y ride on the subway.

Ultimately I think you have two choices. You can sacrifice everything and just go over, damn it all and no turning back. Or you could take a baby step and do a working visit, see if you think it could work out. You read my free advice, refunds gladly given. Disclaimer: I've been trying to head over for years now, I haven't managed to make the permanent move, so I will supply you with plenty of grains of salt.

[Takechanpoo]

Hey SuperTanuki,
Japan is good country for you as long as you watch it in the place separated far from Japan. But if you actually live in Japan for a while, you will regret choosing Japan. You had better escape from Japan as soon as possible. This is a sincere advice from gentle Japanese.

[ttjereth]

Edited the quotes to put related items together...

Speak to fellow journo/designer that's been in Japan for years and loves it - Feel encouraged. Get a plan with their advice. Slap said plan on Gaigin forum for their take. Get shot down. Meet and speak to another happy gaijin in my industry. Feel encouraged. Devise new plan. Post on Forum. Get shot down. Repeat x 4.

Third, I know of a few Journos that have gone to be a freelance Japan correspondent for US and UK publications. It didn't matter that they couldn't speak fluently to Nintendo or Sega - just being there meant you could get to events, write about new crazes and do features that those publications otherwise can't/wouldn't think of.

And "carving out my niche in Japan" is exactly what I want to do, but every time I devise a plan just to get my feet on Japanese soil for a few months to a year, forums shoot it down. My company paying is out of the question. WH visa was my first plan, but someone advised me to go for the Student gig instead.

Its funny - I know of and hear of students, journos and others going to japan all the time, learning some japanese, doing some work, meeting some people, and coming back a year or two or even three later having had a fucking awesome time. Some of those are people with equal or even less experience, money, contacts and planning than I, and they manage it.

I want to know how to do that.

The best advice you will get on this or any other forum:
If you know people who are actually doing/have done what you want to do, ask them how they did it and stop fretting over things said to you by forum goers\trolls like me

I have to say though, working on the peripherary of the gaming industry here (I'm a translator and will even occasionally get caught up in huge localization projects) I don't know too many people who fit the parameters you give above, and I can't imagine it's all that common a situation.

A few points of concern that spring to mind after reading your posts:

1. There are limited sources for gaming journalism work (in English obviously, you'll never get a job for a Japanese magazine) already, and plenty of people who would love to be able to do it. You say you've already been doing the job for 10 years, so you should have more access to information on whether or not what you want to do is feasible than anyone else on this forum. Are you a freelancer or do you have guaranteed amounts of work/pay per specific time periods?

2. If you can't speak Japanese you aren't going to be able to do anything that any other blogger with some money and vacation time can't. Just being a native English speaker in Japan who happens to like/know about video games isn't a terribly rare set of qualifications anymore.

The only qualification you would end up having over any other game journalists/prospective game journalists in your home country is that you would be physically in Japan, but not being able to speak Japanese means you aren't likely to be able to get any sort of exclusive access or even attend any events in any capacity other than just another attendee, rather than getting in on a press pass and such. And you obviously won't be able to snag any invites to exclusive/press only invites on your own, so your worth to potential employers seems to be fairly limited and your advantage of being in Japan can be eliminated by any competitor willing and able to purchase a plane a ticket.

I obviously don't know what your actual writing skills/credentials are, you might be the most popular gaming reporter in your country for all I know, but boiling down to the basics (i.e. ignoring any unique factors that I don't know about but may give you a leg up on the competition) leads me to the above.

Generally speaking if a gaming magazine/website/whatever wants an event covered badly enough, they will send someone to it. The big events aren't all that common here either. On top of that I would imagine they would tend to prefer someone who has a good enough command of the language to a. gain access other people can't, b. carry out interviews, c. read and translate the latest Japanese gaming news.

"There was a news article with a picture of Chun Li, but I have no clue what it says!" doesn't seem like a phrase that is likely to get publishers salivating ]
Charles - those incompatibles. First, what if we came in on student visas to study three times a week - would you see that working better with PT work (I know there's a limit to work hours).
[/quote]
Charles mentioned it already, but there's also a limit as to what kind of work you can do. The student visa+work route is fairly hard and even harder if you are going to be actually studying while holding a job that satisfies your student visa restrictions and working as a game journalist at the same time. How much sleep do you generally need a night?

On top of that you need to (at least temporarily) amass a significant amount of cash to GET a student visa in the first place. You are required to provide notarized documents showing bank account balance, and although I don't know exactly what the current amount required is, I'm fairly certain it is still over US$10,000 per year of study.

Second, the girlfriend. She's as keen to go as I. One guy, actually the one who forwarded me this site, saw our partnership in this as a positive, costs wise. Our appartment costs would be halved, for example.

This is not really true. Whereas you can get by somewhat cheaper together than as two individuals, it will still be siginificantly more expensive together than just going by yourself.

Rent being halved isn't really right either. You are paying half the money, but you have less space per individual. You'll have to live in Tokyo to be able to do any sort of actual gaming-related work (unless you plan on focusing on one specific company which may have headquarters elsewhere, thus limiting options for work even more) and rent here isn't exactly cheap. A one 6 tatami mat room (about 2.5 by 3-3.5 meters or so) apartment will easily run you 60,000 yen a month. Depending on how close it is to the nearest station, how new it is, plenty of other factors that same space can easily cost more, but you'll have to do a ton of searching to find anything cheaper, and again your options will be severely limited by any lack of Japanese skills, whether because you simply don't have the skills to search for places or work with real estate agents or because the landlord doesn't want a tenant who can't speak the language.

[GomiGirl]

You didn't mention how old you both are. As I assume you are both on UK passports, the easiest and cheapest way to get here to live and work is a working holiday visa. This has been covered loads of times before so just search the forums for the details.

On this sort of visa, they expect you to do part time work (in anything other than bar or hostess work) and can pick up loads of little odd jobs to pay your way.

Apartments have a high entry cost to rent. Look at Gaijin houses - they have rooms for couples. Or check Craigslist for house sitting options.

The girlfriend may have additional options available via the International Schools. What is a Nursery nurse exactly? Again having a working holiday visa will make her more attractive to potential employers. Or she could hire herself out as a nanny. The going rate for child minders/helpers is ¥1,500/hour.

In terms of monthly living costs - pretty much what you are used to from London. I think it is a myth that Japan is a super expensive country. Sure some things like accommodation can be not as good value for money, but groceries etc are pretty reasonable. Drinking in money pits like Roppongi is expensive but there are much cheaper places to drink.

If you go the student visa route - you will need to sign up for a registered school and pay for at least 6 months in advance as a full time student - that is 5 half day classes a week. Most schools keep a record of attendance and if you miss more than 20% of your classes you are in danger of losing your visa as they will report you.

Check the archives of this forum for recommendations for Japanese schools and look at their websites for visa information. The good schools have all this clearly laid out.

Hope this helps.

[ttjereth]

In terms of monthly living costs - pretty much what you are used to from London. I think it is a myth that Japan is a super expensive country. Sure some things like accommodation can be not as good value for money, but groceries etc are pretty reasonable.

I can't speak to living costs from London, but I hope you're kidding about the Japan not being an expensive country thing.

Some sample prices from our recent shopping receipts etc.:
Large (medium in most other places) delivery pizza with 1 or 2 toppings 3,000 yen
1 stalk of celery 198 yen
bag of 3 onions (round kind) 198 yen
2 carrots 198 yen
1 bell pepper (or paprika as they are called here) 198 yen
bag of 5 miniature potatoes 198 yen
5 kilogram bag of rice 1980 yen
5 packages of instant ramen 397 yen
1 liter of milk 198 yen
6 slice "loaf" of bread 198 yen
1 banana 97 yen
1 orange 98 yen
1 apple 128 yen
Gas for two people for a month (bath/shower and cooking range only) 7-10,000 yen
Telephone minimum of 4000 yen a month, plus at least 30,000 yen to get a phone line in the first place
Electricity anywhere from 7000 yen a month to 24,000 (running the AC and two computers full time)
Then of course there's still water, sewage, NHK (ha!), train fares, taxi rides, toilet paper, etc. etc.

Also, I don't know much about gaijin houses, but would he be able to get his own internet connection there? If he's going to be doing freelance work with places back home, I'd imagine he'd need more ready access than hauling off to an Internet cafe or Starbucks to check his email...

[ichigo partygirl]

I can't speak to living costs from London, but I hope you're kidding about the Japan not being an expensive country thing.

Some sample prices from our recent shopping receipts etc.:
Large (medium in most other places) delivery pizza with 1 or 2 toppings 3,000 yen
1 stalk of celery 198 yen
bag of 3 onions (round kind) 198 yen
2 carrots 198 yen
1 bell pepper (or paprika as they are called here) 198 yen
bag of 5 miniature potatoes 198 yen
5 kilogram bag of rice 1980 yen
5 packages of instant ramen 397 yen
1 liter of milk 198 yen
6 slice "loaf" of bread 198 yen
1 banana 97 yen
1 orange 98 yen
1 apple 128 yen
Gas for two people for a month (bath/shower and cooking range only) 7-10,000 yen
Telephone minimum of 4000 yen a month, plus at least 30,000 yen to get a phone line in the first place
Electricity anywhere from 7000 yen a month to 24,000 (running the AC and two computers full time)
Then of course there's still water, sewage, NHK (ha!), train fares, taxi rides, toilet paper, etc. etc.

Also, I don't know much about gaijin houses, but would he be able to get his own internet connection there? If he's going to be doing freelance work with places back home, I'd imagine he'd need more ready access than hauling off to an Internet cafe or Starbucks to check his email...

ttjereth>To be honest although some things you speak of are more expensive alot are not that different from many countries nowdays - for example the price of butter went up here in NZ almost 100% in less than two years, electricity is more expensive here, internet is 3times the price and 10% of the speed, there is virtually no public transport so you have to run a car.

Super tanuki>Good luck with what you decide to do, but like some of the others have mentioned you might be best to get a working holiday visa or just come on a tourist visa and come for 3-6months and see what it's like before you commit to something for longer. Also it might be sensible to seriously study some Japanese before you come, it really makes a huge difference.

[kusai Jijii]

True enough. Every time I go back to Oz, I cant help thinking how expensive everything has become. I recon a night on the grog is cheeper in Japan than it is in Australia these days, and food and clothes (within reason) are now definately cheeper in Japan than Australia.
Of course the flip side to this is that real wages have exploded in Oz over the last decade, whereas in Japan they have stagnated.

[ttjereth]

I'm kind of surprised that everything is so expensive in Australia and NZ. I find the States is still cheaper for most things. I STILL do almost all of my clothing and shoe shopping in bulk when I go back home once a year or so because it's so much cheaper.

[Charles]

I'm kind of surprised that everything is so expensive in Australia and NZ. I find the States is still cheaper for most things. I STILL do almost all of my clothing and shoe shopping in bulk when I go back home once a year or so because it's so much cheaper.

If he just wanted to make big money (or feel like it) he should write for UK publishers and live in the US. I recently wrote a story for a UK website and was astonished at how much money I made, due to the incredible Pound/Dollar exchange rate.

[ttjereth]

If he just wanted to make big money (or feel like it) he should write for UK publishers and live in the US. I recently wrote a story for a UK website and was astonished at how much money I made, due to the incredible Pound/Dollar exchange rate.

I could manage a significantly higher standard of living back home if I made the same pay I make now in Tokyo. Unfortunately stupid clients prefer translators who are in the same country. Bunch of whiners.

[Mulboyne]

I live more cheaply in Tokyo than London when I'm in town. In January, when one pound exchanged for 250 yen, there were bargains to be had. Since the rate is now vacillating around 200 yen, prices have effectively gone up 25% for UK travellers in the space of only three months even without considering the recent rises in taxis, beer, bread, milk, fish etc. I think a rate of around 170 would make Tokyo a more expensive proposition and, since it was not so long ago that the rate was 130 yen to the pound, that's not an impossible scenario.

[Greji]

I live more cheaply in Tokyo than London when I'm in town. In January, when one pound exchanged for 250 yen, there were bargains to be had. Since the rate is now vacillating around 200 yen, prices have effectively gone up 25% for UK travellers in the space of only three months even without considering the recent rises in taxis, beer, bread, milk, fish etc. I think a rate of around 170 would make Tokyo a more expensive proposition and, since it was not so long ago that the rate was 130 yen to the pound, that's not an impossible scenario.

Well said. Most of the people I know at Her Majesty's Embassy, shutter at the thought of being reassigned to London, strictly because of the cost of living.
This is even if they are not remaining in civil service.

[Batsu_Girl]

True enough. Every time I go back to Oz, I cant help thinking how expensive everything has become. I recon a night on the grog is cheeper in Japan than it is in Australia these days, and food and clothes (within reason) are now definately cheeper in Japan than Australia.
Of course the flip side to this is that real wages have exploded in Oz over the last decade, whereas in Japan they have stagnated.

Couldn't agree more. Rent is cheaper for me in Yokohama-shi than it was in the suburbs of Melbourne for a similar size place. Internet here is also a quater of the cost I paid in Aus. Apart from fresh fruit and veggies, you can get pretty cheap dinners and much cheaper drinks here.

I know an older woman who used to travel to Cairns for a holiday every year with her husband but they don't do it anymore because they think Aus has become too expensive.

[Iraira]

Some sample prices from our recent shopping receipts etc.:
1 banana 97 yen
1 orange 98 yen
1 apple 128 yen

Why are you only buying one banana, one apple, and one orange at a time? Oh, I got it, you like the girl at the supermarket register and gotta pull the old, "Oh, damn, we're out of banana, orange, and apple (singular tense is on purpose), again, hon. Gotta go to the market, no...no...I'll go, you stay here and stay warm, the forecast said (insert natural disaster here), I'll be back in a couple of hours. Picking the right apple, orange, and banana takes time, ne....."

[ttjereth]

Couldn't agree more. Rent is cheaper for me in Yokohama-shi than it was in the suburbs of Melbourne for a similar size place. Internet here is also a quater of the cost I paid in Aus. Apart from fresh fruit and veggies, you can get pretty cheap dinners and much cheaper drinks here.

I know an older woman who used to travel to Cairns for a holiday every year with her husband but they don't do it anymore because they think Aus has become too expensive.

How much does rent go for in Japanese Yen in the suburbs of Melbourne? What is an average salary in Australia? I was under the impression the annual average income was siginificantly lower there than here in Japan (my only basis for this was word of mouth from Australian friends), and if so, and the prices are the same, how does anyone make a living there at all?

Is this just a really recent trend or has it been this way for awhile? All of my anecdotal evidence through friends is about 5 years old, but is there that significant of a difference between then and now?

[amdg]

How much does rent go for in Japanese Yen in the suburbs of Melbourne? What is an average salary in Australia? I was under the impression the annual average income was siginificantly lower there than here in Japan (my only basis for this was word of mouth from Australian friends), and if so, and the prices are the same, how does anyone make a living there at all?

Is this just a really recent trend or has it been this way for awhile? All of my anecdotal evidence through friends is about 5 years old, but is there that significant of a difference between then and now?

5 years ago was on the trailing end of the change. Salaries are higher in Melbourne, rent is higher, pretty much everything is more expensive. It started changing about 10 years ago.

[ttjereth]

Why are you only buying one banana, one apple, and one orange at a time? Oh, I got it, you like the girl at the supermarket register and gotta pull the old, "Oh, damn, we're out of banana, orange, and apple (singular tense is on purpose), again, hon. Gotta go to the market, no...no...I'll go, you stay here and stay warm, the forecast said (insert natural disaster here), I'll be back in a couple of hours. Picking the right apple, orange, and banana takes time, ne....."

Wife = Japanese = buys everything in ridiculously small amounts but goes shopping damn near everyday.

If it was up to me, be we'd have a freezer chest and build our house in Costco's parking lot.

In all honesty though, my father in law goes shopping for us a lot. This is not something we ask him to do or anything, it just so happens that he gets some weird sort of enjoyment out of shopping and a supermarket as well as our home are directly in his path home, so every once in awhile he will show up with 2 or three bags of groceries, at least one of which is almost always completely filled with fruit of some kind (like the most recent 2 whole pineapples... 1 each for me and the wife I guess, I dunno).

We never manage to get through all of the fruit he buys before it goes bad, and honestly if we did we'd probably both end up with diabetes (he buys a lot of fruit), so occasionally when he hasn't been by in awhile and I or the wife want fruit we will buy just 1 or 2 of whatever item because if we buy any greater number it is almost guaranteed that the father in law will show up later that evening with 2 bags full of whatever we bought.

For the curious the other bags are generally filled with foil envelope curry, meat (because me=american=eats beef 7 times a day according to dad, unfortunately he buys those weird sukiyaki cuts and such that we have trouble coming up with uses for, occasionally he'll buy steaks, "karubi" or ground meat which gets used, but a lot of it makes its unfortunate way to the bin), canned fish that even my wife won't eat, and lots of other oddball things.

Seriously, if we had a friend living anywhere nearby they could probably consist solely off of the stuff my father in law buys that we throw away (assuming they weren't too picky about eating more or less the same thing every day, hey at least they wouldn't get scurvy).

[ttjereth]

5 years ago was on the trailing end of the cusp of change. Salaries are higher in Oz, rent is higher, pretty much everything is more expensive. It started changing about 10 years ago.

Huh. Still not having visited (despite persistent pestering to do so from a friend) I was under the impression that things were siginifcantly less expensive there, mainly from the examples of an Australian friend who was here on JET for three years and returned home and bought a house outright with money he had saved on JET over three years, which even 5 years ago would have been difficult in the U.S. and now would be bloody impossible and other Australian friends who joined me in constantly complaining how expensive Japan was.

[amdg]

Huh. Still not having visited (despite persistent pestering to do so from a friend) I was under the impression that things were siginifcantly less expensive there, mainly from the examples of an Australian friend who was here on JET for three years and returned home and bought a house outright with money he had saved on JET over three years, which even 5 years ago would have been difficult in the U.S. and now would be bloody impossible and other Australian friends who joined me in constantly complaining how expensive Japan was.

A house, outright, from 3 years of JET money? It's possible - if by 'house' you mean ruined log cabin the middle of nowhere, and by 'money he saved on JET' you mean drug cartel profits.
But seriously, I guess he wasn't from Melbourne. Things may be different in other places around Australia, but I guess most major cities are following the same trend and what your friend said he did is just not possible.

Let's run the numbers -

JET salary 4,000,000 Yen p/a (or thereabouts).
pension refund after 3 years - 900,000

Let's say he lived with his girlfriend in Japan who paid all the rent herself, he never spent anything on food or drinks and made no purchases at all. Basically he saves every single yen he ever earned.

He ends up with 129,000 dollars (without interest calculations). You couldn't buy any property in Melbourne right now for that - neither house nor apartment. 5 years ago, I still doubt it, but maybe, somewhere on the fringes of civilization.


EDIT - sorry, that was the worst savings estimate in the history of savings estimates. That's what you get for posting at 1am. I'm pretty sure he would have to pay taxes, health insurance, employment insurance etc too (duh!) and he wouldn't get back a pension refund if he never paid into it (duh again). So he couldn't have even broken the 100,000 AUD mark at all, unless he was running drugs on the side.

[ttjereth]

A house, outright, from 3 years of JET money? It's possible - if by 'house' you mean ruined log cabin the middle of nowhere, and by 'money he saved on JET' you mean drug cartel profits.
But seriously, I guess he wasn't from Melbourne. Things may be different in other places around Australia, but I guess most major cities are following the same trend and what your friend said he did is just not possible.

Let's run the numbers -

JET salary 4,000,000 Yen p/a (or thereabouts).
pension refund after 3 years - 900,000

Let's say he lived with his girlfriend in Japan who paid all the rent herself, he never spend anything on food or drinks and made no purchases at all. Basically he saves every single yen he ever earned.

He ends up with 129,000 dollars (without interest calculations). You couldn't buy any property in Melbourne right now for that - neither house nor apartment.

Not Melbourne, he's from the Gold Coast. I don't have any idea what state the house was in or even how big it is, but he bought a house. I know his dad's a contractor though, so maybe he bought a "fixer upper" or something. I'll have to ask for more details. Guess I have been operating under a mistaken assumption.

[kusai Jijii]

Melbourne these days is a fucking rip off!
Trust me.

[Greji]

Melbourne these days is a fucking rip off!
Trust me.

Melbourne? That's a Sydney suburb, isn't it?

[Western All Stars]

Nobody's mentioned this yet, but is your girlfriend Japanese or asian? If not make sure you get inoculated against YBF before you leave.