WBC isn't Boxing Anymore

[Greji]

I am tired of hearing the excuses for the US sucking ass in the WBC. Players' contracts are guaranteed, so who gives a shit if they get injured in the WBC? Yeah, the owners.. Selig was doing an interview during the game and he said that pratically ALL owners are on board with players playing in the WBC. I don't know how much of this is true, but that throws that excuse out too. Why wouldn't you want to compete for your country anyways? Rollins is a freakin' pimp, nuff said.

Don't forget that a lot of these teams don't even have a "minor" league, so that excuse is out the door too..

I still think even IF the US had their "best" players (which quite of a lot of them are not even from the US) in the WBC, they'd still get waxed anyways. The Asian teams play small ball and do the little things to win. Hit, bunt, walk, anything to advance the runner. Solid defense. Solid pitching.

It happened in basketball for the longest time as well. The US just needs to put a TEAM out there and quit making excuses. That fat ass idiot should be shot for standing around and giving up on that fly ball the other day...

I also go with AK, you make some good points Halfnip, but another thing I might add in defense of the players goes back to the injury problem. The life of a pro-sports player is short at the best and especially among the pitchers. Only a small number who can productively produce among pitchers last over say a ten year period. There are the exceptions of course, but the vast majority only hit the top for four or five years and one injury can set that way back or obviously, end the career. A lot of these guys have only baseball and to lose that puts them out of work in a pretty tough world where they don't have a lot of options. A lot of them have only been a jock, and have no more than HS for credentials for any other employment.

The WBC is still new and has none of the splendor or national calling of the Olympics, so it is easy to see where a lot of these players might say "No" to participating as the merit of winning is far out-weighed by the results that could be caused by an injury.

Also, when they say all the owners are on board with the WBC, I think that's an overstatement at the best. The operator of any business does not like to see an asset that he has paid millions of dollars to obtain, be lost in an effort that has minimal if any direct, or even indirect, affect on his own company business.

You know it's easy for us to sit back and yell at the TV about so and so not supporting his country while waving the flag in the left hand and sucking on a cold Bud from the right, but I wonder if we would feel the same if we were asked to put our own job on a line to participate some activity that could result in being required to quit our job, or cause us to be relegated to a position where we could no longer advance in the job, or even be demoted. Would we jump so fast at it then?

It goes without saying there was a serious lack of interest in the WBC in the US among most of the populous. Only the diehard sports fans and in particular, baseball fans, followed it with any interest and unfortunately, not a lot of enthusiasm. When the US played Japan, there were empty seats in the stadium, which is unheard of for the semi-final of any major sports finale. The Japanese announcers even took great pleasure in announcing that it looked like there were more Japanese supporters than those supporting the US and they may have been spot on with that comment.

Even if my observations are correct, I don't know what the answer would be. The tournament is pretty well limited to this time of the baseball year. Owners and organized baseball are not going to let it be held during the year and even if it were, it would be like the China Olympics for most countries, they would not have any major MLB players released to play during the on-going season. After the World Series would cause a players rebellion. They might go play a couple exhibition games in Japan or somewhere, but to play a full competition tournament after spring training, a 163 game regular season and the pressure of post season play? No way. The only people that play ball then are those trying to make it into the bigs, or of course, Japanese.

In short I am not confident the WBC will survive. Obviously, the Japanese and Koreans with continue to cherish it as it massages the bruised ego's of being considered second rate, but I don't believe this is enough to keep the tourney running.
Sorry to bore you non-baseball buffs, but just some rambling thoughts....

[Behan]

I....Sorry to bore you non-baseball buffs, but just some rambling thoughts....

That's OK, Greji, I still love you.

Just kidding. An informative post for someone knew to liking baseball like me.

[Greji]

That's OK, Greji, I still love you.

This is no time for romance, that pervert Cyka is trying to ship one of my goats to Kenya by takyubin....

[GuyJean]

.. The life of a pro-sports player is short at the best and especially among the pitchers. Only a small number who can productively produce among pitchers last over say a ten year period. There are the exceptions of course, but the vast majority only hit the top for four or five years and one injury can set that way back or obviously, end the career. A lot of these guys have only baseball and to lose that puts them out of work in a pretty tough world where they don't have a lot of options. A lot of them have only been a jock, and have no more than HS for credentials for any other employment..

Where's my violin? We're talking about Major League, professional athletes. What about the Minor League guys? Why do they even try? Their life must really suck!

The WBC is still new and has none of the splendor or national calling of the Olympics, so it is easy to see where a lot of these players might say "No" to participating as the merit of winning is far out-weighed by the results that could be caused by an injury.

Yeah, why would a millionaire want to represent their country on the global stage, playing a game they supposedly love? Too risky.

Also, when they say all the owners are on board with the WBC, I think that's an overstatement at the best..

Totally agree. He's lyin' like a discarded syringe on the locker room floor. ].. I wonder if we would feel the same if we were asked to put our own job on a line to participate some activity that could result in being required to quit our job, or cause us to be relegated to a position where we could no longer advance in the job, or even be demoted. Would we jump so fast at it then?[/QUOTE]Huh? So I'm making 10 million a year and asked to represent my country because I'm so good at what I do.. and you think I'd say no because I 'might' not be able to return to my job?.. Where do I sign up?

I think both the US and Venezuela had great teams; Venezuela was all big names.. They just sucked! Did they suck because the stands weren't full? I think they sucked because they were sloppy and have no idea how to play as a team..

Doesn't most baseball revenue come from sponsors on television? (real question) Does it matter if the stands were half empty in the US when whole nations were watching on TV?

GJ

[Greji]

Where's my violin? We're talking about Major League, professional athletes. What about the Minor League guys? Why do they even try? Their life must really suck!

GJ, the only ball you got in you is in your jock! The minor league guys are in spring training, trying to make the team, or go home and pump gasoline.

Yeah, why would a millionaire want to represent their country on the global stage, playing a game they supposedly love? Too risky.

The only big money goes to the players who make the 40 man rooster and not all of them get the million mark. Most are still in the six figure range. But again this is only 40 of some 2-300 players in each team's system, all of whom are looking for a job. Anyone's job.

Totally agree. He's lyin' like a discarded syringe on the locker room floor. ]

You read the papers too much. There are not as many so-called ten million dollar players as you think.

I think both the US and Venezuela had great teams; Venezuela was all big names.. They just sucked! Did they suck because the stands weren't full? I think they sucked because they were sloppy and have no idea how to play as a team..

Hey, you ever seen a spring season game in the grapefruit or cactus league? There're all sloppy... That's another bone of contention that some people have about the WBC. They claim that only teams that train especially for it (read Japan and Korea) have any resonance to play as a team during the tourney. The rest of the countries play together as a team for about a week or two at the most, before the tourney. Hell, you live here. How long have we had to put up with who will the managers be, who the members be. Then the practice sessions and the practice games and the Nihon Daihyou BS, before Harakiri Kantoku named them "Samurai Japan" (which at least was better than Hara Japan). It seems like they've been working on that since the ass-kicking they were issued under the name of "Hoshino Japan."

Doesn't most baseball revenue come from sponsors on television? (real question) Does it matter if the stands were half empty in the US when whole nations were watching on TV?

GJ

That's true. But there is a huge difference between taking it live and showing a tape delay. Japan only took their games and I'm not sure, but I think the only other live game they took was US and Korea and I could be wrong on that. But there is no where near the huge revenue as for the Olympics and regular season play. They can't charge the sponsors the big bucks for tape delay, or video stuff.

They also charged pretty good for tickets, or so goes the bitches that I heard. People were claiming it was two expensive for some of the fans from smaller countries, but I don't know.

It still goes back to ball anyway. Winning a couple of games in this type of tournament does not really settle anything to anyone (except Take and the Samurai Japan crew). That's why the majors have five and seven game series to decide the season. It's nice to say, "Hey we won two consequtive WBC's", but if you notice the post season goodwill MLB tours. J-ball is getting better, but who wins the most of them?

[GuyJean]

.. The only big money goes to the players who make the 40 man rooster and not all of them get the million mark..

I'm talking about the players selected for the WBC, not Joe Alcoholic the emergency backup, backup catcher for the Oakland A's..

Maybe it's time for the US to hand off 'they're' game to players who 1) know how to play it, and 2) enjoy it for the game and competition, not the money.

GJ

[halfnip]

Who the fuck did that?

Why, of course the fat ass Mr. Adam Dunn. He was probably too busy dreaming about hot dogs and beer...

[Gilligan]

I think both the US and Venezuela had great teams]all[/I] big names.. They just sucked! Did they suck because the stands weren't full? I think they sucked because they were sloppy and have no idea how to play as a team..

GJ

I think the biggest problem for the US was the fact that this tournament happens in the middle of spring training, so the manager of the US team can't approach it like a real game. If you look at the US-Japan game, in a real game, there would have been no way the manager would have left Oswalt in so long, but Johnson had to leave him in so he would reach a certain pitch count and be stretched out enough when he went back to the Astros. Same with when Johnson pinch hit Longoria for Granderson instead of pinch hitting Victorino. Longoria is right-handed, Victorino left-handed; at the time the Japanese had a right hander on the mound and 2 right handers warming up, but no left hander warming up. In a normal game situation, ANY MLB manager would pinch hit Victorino. But the Rays had sent Longoria across the country the day before to replace the injured Youkilis; Johnson felt he had to put Longoria in the game at some point to show his appreciation to both the Rays and Longoria for their sacrafice.

As for the "knowing how to play as a team" comment, it's baseball for pete's sake, not hockey or football or basketball.

It still goes back to ball anyway. Winning a couple of games in this type of tournament does not really settle anything to anyone (except Take and the Samurai Japan crew). That's why the majors have five and seven game series to decide the season. It's nice to say, "Hey we won two consequtive WBC's", but if you notice the post season goodwill MLB tours. J-ball is getting better, but who wins the most of them?

Thanks for that Greji, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Baseball is a fickle sport. If the wind hadn't been blowing in from left in the US-Japan game, the US would have creamed them--no fewer than 3 homers were turned into long outs because of that wind. Japan beats Korea 14-2 one day and then loses 1-0 two days later. The WBC is nothing more than a cheap, poorly-disguised attempt to make money. Do the Japanese have good players? Absolutely. The Koreans? Yes. Venezuelans, Americans, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, etc, all have quality baseball players. But I think the results would be VERY different if the players were in mid-season form and they were playing best-out-of 3 or 5 series rather than 1 game at the end. Or even double-elimination like they played before hand.

In the end, the WBC has a lot of problems as is--it took WAY too long to get through all the games; too many players were getting injured; managers are forced to take a pre-season approach in the games, playing guys for 4 or 5 innings and leaving starters in longer than normal to get work; etc. If pitchers like Oswalt or Peavey or Matsuzaka struggle, or worse get hurt, during the season, look for the blame, rightly or wrongly, to be placed on the WBC.

[AssKissinger]

Why, of course the fat ass Mr. Adam Dunn. He was probably too busy dreaming about hot dogs and beer...

Shit. They interviewed him about 70 times just so he could announce again and again how excited he was to be there.

[Mulboyne]

I think the biggest problem for the US was the fact that this tournament happens in the middle of spring training, so the manager of the US team can't approach it like a real game. If you look at the US-Japan game, in a real game, there would have been no way the manager would have left Oswalt in so long, but Johnson had to leave him in so he would reach a certain pitch count and be stretched out enough when he went back to the Astros.

That's a point I've heard many times and I don't fully understand it. I don't know baseball and I'm willing to be put right by people who do but I can't understand why a top professional's season can be so disrupted by not going through the same spring training regime. As far as I can tell, the regular MLB season opens around now and ends in early October while spring training is the two month slot leading up to the season opener.

By way of comparison, the English Premier League Season starts in mid-August. Every second year, there is an international competition in the form of either the World Cup or European Championship and the finals for both are July and the end of June respectively. A top international playing in the Premiership can therefore expect about six weeks down time in a 12 month year. If both his club and country teams are doing well, he will be expected to play in the Premier League matches, the FA Cup knock-out competition, The Football League Cup knock-out competition, The Champions League, The World Club Cup, international friendlies, international competition qualifiers and any international competition which is up that year. He might not even get a clear break before the season starter since many club teams like to play some friendlies overseas in China, Japan or the US to fill the coffers.

International rugby players have similar year-long schedules. Rugby is a winter game and the club season runs from September to May during which, like football, there are both domestic club and cup competitions as well as a European Championship and major international matches. During the "summer break", however, top northern hemisphere international teams will go on tour and play southern hemisphere teams. Every four years a special "British & Irish Lions" team goes on tour in addition to the national teams and, in 2009, this will be for six weeks in South Africa until the beginning of July. This means a top player will get a two month break but that will probably be interrupted by some club warm-up matches.

However, football and rugby are both winter sports with matches scheduled to run for 90 minutes and 80 minutes respectively so perhaps they aren't the best comparison. A cricket match can run from half a day to five days depending on the format and it is a summer sport so maybe that would be a better comparison. The English cricket season runs from Mid-April to the end of September which matches the baseball season. However, international cricketers will also go on winter tours. England went straight out in October to play a series of one day matches in the West Indies. In November, they began a tour of India which finished a week before Christmas. They are currently on a winter tour back again in the West Indies. The squad arrived on January 21st and won't be home until early April, a couple of weeks before the regular season starts once again. For them also, then, the longest break without a competitive match is around five or six weeks.

I suppose that is a long way of saying that a professional footballer, cricketer or rugby player would expect to be able to play competitively virtually all year round. Obviously no player can expect to be at a constant physical and mental peak so clubs will rotate their squads to ensure that their major players are fresh for the top games. I just can't imagine any player in those three sports not wanting to give their best in an international competition whenever it was held. You certainly wouldn't hear anyone saying his season was ruined by not being able to duplicate the preparation he had in a previous year. In a nutshell, why wouldn't Oswalt have been able to get himself together for the 2009 season just because he was pulled early in one game?

[Greji]

That's a point I've heard many times and I don't fully understand it. I don't know baseball and I'm willing to be put right by people who do but I can't understand why a top professional's season can be so disrupted by not going through the same spring training regime. As far as I can tell, the regular MLB season opens around now and ends in early October while spring training is the two month slot leading up to the season opener.

One of the reasons is the season. It is easy to say "Hey, it's over in October," but these guys play a 163 game season (after a couple of months of Spring training, or even the WBC)! That's 5-6 days a week that they've got to play at their absolute peak in both physically and psychologically (you have to be pretty focused to see a ball coming at around 100mph, let alone have developed reflexes to hit it). When they hit October and season's end, they crash. They have four months to do everything they haven't done for the previous year, whether it is getting drunk, or remodeling the house.

Then come February it all starts over. The serious pros have maintained conditioning during the off season, but a helluva a lot of them don't. This is a major ball club problem with people reporting for spring training out of condition and/or overweight. There is also attrition. As I said in a previous post, pro sports athletes, baseball players included, have a limited shelf life. They get old at different ages and their reactions and reflexes disappear at different times in life. Add this to a never ending line of players in the minors trying to get to the top and just waiting for the chance to move you out of their way, gives you a pretty rapid turnover.

Spring training is where they sort all of this out. Get the slugs in shape and/or shit-can them, evaluate all the players for position and form the final team. The minor league players go to spring training without knowing where they are heading afterwards. Depending on how they do, determines the league level (AAA,AA,A+ or -, Rookie+or -) to which they will be assigned for the coming season.

Spring training is as serious as a heart attack to these people who have chosen baseball as their career ambition. It can make their dream, or end it.

[Gilligan]

And just to add to the points made by Greji, keep in mind that a pitching motion is a very unnatural motion which can lead to a number of serious (as far as a career is concerned) shoulder and elbow injuries. Hence the concern with pitch counts and the number of innings that a pitcher throws in a season (or appearances made for a reliever). And it takes starters 6-weeks in the spring to go from nothing to throwing 100+ game condition pitches.

[IkemenTommy]

This pretty much wraps up and explains the American apathy with baseball.

[IkemenTommy]

This is like watching one of Letterman's skits.

[Gilligan]

This pretty much wraps up and explains the American apathy with baseball.

I don't know that there is apathy towards baseball in America--attendance figures at MLB ballparks during the regular season are at an all time high.

It certainly is a good example of American apathy towards the WBC. But I don't really understand why people seem so concerned about that (other than the people organizing the WBC, that is). The Japanese are just pissed off that they beat everyone in some hokey baseball tournament and no one in North America could give a rat's ass because they're either busy going down to Florida or Arizona to watch their teams in spring training or they're waiting for real baseball to start in 10 days.

[kusai Jijii]

[SIZE="7"]FUCK BASEBALL!
THE AFL SEASON HAS BEGUN!
GO PIES!!![/SIZE]

ps: this thread hijack has been bought to you by Kusai Jijiii. Drunk as per usual.

[GuyJean]

Ok, I get it. WBC doesn't matter because the US doesn't care, or care to try. And baseball is 'hard'. Why would I expect professional baseball players to compete year-round like other sports Mulboyne mentioned?

Can't wait for 'real' baseball to start, so I can worship the awesomeness of MLB stars who can't seem to step-up on the world stage. That might actually mean they have to stay in shape during the off season! Maybe they need to shorten the season if the professional 'athletes' can't handle it.

(Actually, I'm looking forward to the MLB season.. Love the smell of fresh grass on my TV, and the English commentary)

* edit.. Oh, and what the fuck is AFL? American Football League?

GJ

[wuchan]

AFL‎ - AFLAC Incorporated (NYSE)

I think he was referring to "football".

[GuyJean]

.. I think he was referring to "football".

:lol:

That's a terrible acronym if it's a serious site..

GJ

[Gilligan]

Ok, I get it. WBC doesn't matter because the US doesn't care, or care to try.

GJ

GJ why do you think that they don't care or try? Which players out there for the US weren't trying? I watched the US-Japan game, and I didn't think anyone was dogging it. It was unfortunate that they had to play DeRosa at 1st and Dunn in right, but that was largely due to losing Youkilis to injury.

And, honestly, I can't think of too many guys who would have been better than the guys they originally had on the team (before they suffered all the injuries). Not only that, but a number of guys not originally on the team stepped up to replace guys who left with injuries (Youkilis, Chipper Jones, Pedroia, and Lidstrom).

But if you really think they didn't care or weren't trying, that doesn't say much for the competition considering the US made it to the semis. And they may have beaten the Japanese if there hadn't been such a strong wind blowing in from left field. But that's baseball, some nights the wind the blows in your favor; some nights it blows against you.

[GuyJean]

GJ why do you think that they don't care or try? Which players out there for the US weren't trying? I watched the US-Japan game, and I didn't think anyone was dogging it. It was unfortunate that they had to play DeRosa at 1st and Dunn in right, but that was largely due to losing Youkilis to injury..

Well, it sounds like nobody cares in the States. So why try, right? (I was speaking mostly about the supposed 'fans' of baseball who can't seem to enjoy teams with squinty eyes play better than their 'pros'.)

Yeah, and all those injuries. Maybe there's a reason.. Nah. Just bad luck. Like the wind.

Honestly, MLB is my favorite sport to watch.. But sometimes I wonder why.

GJ

[GuyJean]

And what's with the 'best' Managers in the world? Sojo starts Silva for a do or die game? Davey Johnson loses with Oswald because of 'spring training', and let's Longoria hit so he doesn't hurt his feelings?..

Either they suck and don't know how to manage this 'new' game, or they didn't 'try' to win in the WBC..

GJ

[Gilligan]

[quote="GuyJean"]Well, it sounds like nobody cares in the States. So why try, right? (I was speaking mostly about the supposed 'fans' of baseball who can't seem to enjoy teams with squinty eyes play better than their 'pros'.)

Yeah, and all those injuries. Maybe there's a reason.. Nah. Just bad luck. Like the wind. ]

You know GJ, people in the US don't mind watching non-Americans play baseball--again, just look at the attendance at any MLB game. But just because Japanese people (and you) want to think this is the greatest thing in the world doesn't mean (other) Americans have to, and vice versa. And exactly how does the apathy of Americans towards the WBC detract from your enjoyment of the game? That's kind of like me thinking that Orioles games are somehow less enjoyable because Greji thinks the O's suck.

As to the injuries, well they may be due to players being out of shape, as you seem to be implying. But injuries happen all the time for a variety of reasons (how many pitchers for the Yankees went on the DL last year? were they all out of shape, too?), so it could be anything.

[Gilligan]

And what's with the 'best' Managers in the world? Sojo starts Silva for a do or die game? Davey Johnson loses with Oswald because of 'spring training', and let's Longoria hit so he doesn't hurt his feelings?..

Either they suck, or they didn't 'try' to win in the WBC..

GJ

This is where the real problem lies with respect to MLB--managers like Johnson feel they are obligated to the teams to make sure players get enough playing time. Teams are sometimes reluctant to let some their players go because they worry that they won't get enough play. This is why the Orioles wanted to have Jeremy Guthrie come back in the middle of the WBC--he'd pitched in only 2 games during a span in which he probably would have pitched in at least twice as many had he remained in camp. So Johnson felt obligated to play Longoria so that teams wouldn't use that in the future as an excuse not to let players play in it.

And that's one of the other big problems--scheduling. The US played a grand total of 7 games over the span of 16 days. The players (and their MLB teams) want (the players) to play, not sit around with their thumbs up their butts for more than 50% of the time. Again if the players had been in camp, they probably would have played around 12 games (if not more) over the same time span.

[GuyJean]

.. And exactly how does the apathy of Americans towards the WBC detract from your enjoyment of the game? That's kind of like me thinking that Orioles games are somehow less enjoyable because Greji thinks the O's suck.

:thumbs: Good point.. But there's fine line between apathy, and whining because you lost. ].. As to the injuries, well they may be due to players being out of shape, as you seem to be implying. But injuries happen all the time for a variety of reasons (how many pitchers for the Yankees went on the DL last year? were they all out of shape, too?), so it could be anything.[/QUOTE]Personally, I think most of them are wound too tight. Muscles pull/tear when there's bulk with no flexibility.. Maybe if they were 'in shape' year-round, they wouldn't pull a hamstring sprinting 90 feet to first base. (I think there's a 'gut-size to hamstring-pull ratio' I learned in college.. Can't recall. )

For a non-contact sport, MLB sure has a lot of 'injuries'. The NBA has what, 90 games a year with full contact?..

Did I mention I like watching MLB?..

GJ

[Samurai_Jerk]

They're probably getting injured because they had to stop taking 'roids to deal with the drug testing.

[Greji]

That's kind of like me thinking that Orioles games are somehow less enjoyable because Greji thinks the O's suck.

That kinda obligates me to say something really shitty about the Camden Yard Canaries, doesn't it?

[Mulboyne]

I don't have a problem with not valuing certain tournaments in a sport you like. I doubt many football fans could tell you who won the mens tournament at the Beijing Olympics. I had to look it up myself and it turns out Argentina beat Nigeria in the final. It may yet become a more important part of the football calendar but it it's not even close right now. British teams haven't even entered the competition: in international matches, "Britain" competes as England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland but the Olympics doesn't recognize the individual countries. Since we are hosting the next games, there's some pressure to compromise and come up with a combined team so I might notice the tournament next time.

Having said that, if you decide to enter a competition and you lose then I think you should be gracious in defeat. As far as I can see, the US players have been exactly that. However, the talk elsewhere about injuries, lack of preparation or what have you is disrespectful to winning teams. It's not their fault if the opposition manager makes a bad call, they can only play what is in front of them. The worst claim is the idea that a tournament can't decide a true baseball champion because you really need to test teams over a larger number of games. How is that different to virtually every other sport under the sun?

Tournament play poses a different set of challenges. It is popular with fans precisely because teams can't win through long term consistency. A team has to deal with a sudden death situation and it is wonderful to see an underdog rising to the occasion or a favourite unable to handle the pressure. All British team sports feature league play and cup competitions in their season. If a team wins both the league and the major cup trophy, they have "done the double". If they can add a European cup then they achieve the much-desired treble. They could get more cups but "quadruple" and "quintuple" make for poor headlines. Doing the double is rare because it takes a true champion team to be consistent over the year while handling the demands of a knock-out tournament.

International competition is almost always on a knock-out basis because it just isn't feasible to have a number of national teams competing on any meaningful league basis. The football world cup is a knock-out tournament but no-one denies the right of the winner to call themselves World Champions no matter how many great players were injured and couldn't compete, how poor a manager's selection and tactics turned out to be or how dreadful a referee was. As supporters, we may despair when the fates turn against us but we just have to accept the results and move on. In New Zealand, this state of affairs is causing something of a crisis. The All Blacks national rugby team is consistently one of the finest teams in the world in any sport. Since the Rugby World Cup was introduced, they have been favourites to win 5 out of the 6 tournaments which have held to date. They have only won once and that was at the inaugural event back in 1987. Even now, though, not many teams would fancy their chances playing New Zealand over even a short three match series and coming out ahead. Nevertheless, rugby supporters the world over enjoy baiting New Zealanders over their inability to translate their playing superiority into World Cups and you won't find Kiwis taking comfort in playing down the importance of the tournament.

[halfnip]

You know it's easy for us to sit back and yell at the TV about so and so not supporting his country while waving the flag in the left hand and sucking on a cold Bud from the right, but I wonder if we would feel the same if we were asked to put our own job on a line to participate some activity that could result in being required to quit our job, or cause us to be relegated to a position where we could no longer advance in the job, or even be demoted. Would we jump so fast at it then?

G, I think it's a *little* bit different. We're not guaranteed our salaries, so if we pack up and leave, we're basically screwed. You forget that most of these guys sign GUARANTEED contracts, so if they go and get injured, they're still guaranteed all or even a portion of their contract money. You've got signing bonuses, incentives, hell, even buyouts. Better yet, you can even petition for a "grievance" and get a certain portion of your money EVERY month for a certain number of years (or maybe even for life) if you suffer a career ending or life altering injury (much like that chap who was paralyzed in the NFL).

I agree, that a lot of us don't know how grueling or tough it can be in professional sports, but after all, it's STILL A SPORT. How many of us here would like to play a sport for a living? Even if you're riding the pine, you should still be pulling in much more than the working class folk, so I really don't see any excuse for this...

Don't the other ballplayers go through the same, no matter where they play? Of course, things are blow up here in the US, but all of these issues should exist in ALL of professional sports and not just in the US.

To me, it's more greed than anything. You don't want to play, because you'll get injured and possibly lose x amount of dollars, so why play? Whereas the other countries (in particular the Asian nuts) would rather represent their country and play in a global event. What better way than to showcase your skills to the WORLD than the WBC (hell, if you make the World Series, more power to you!)? I sure wouldn't be unhappy if I got offered a contract to play ball in Japan/Korea as a result of some good play. I'm sure I wouldn't be scraping just to get by.

[Gilligan]

[quote="halfnip"]To me, it's more greed than anything. You don't want to play, because you'll get injured and possibly lose x amount of dollars, so why play? Whereas the other countries (in particular the Asian nuts) would rather represent their country and play in a global event. What better way than to showcase your skills to the WORLD than the WBC (hell, if you make the World Series, more power to you!)? I sure wouldn't be unhappy if I got offered a contract to play ball in Japan/Korea as a result of some good play. I'm sure I wouldn't be scraping just to get by. ]

Could you please state who it was you thought should have been on the team but didn't want to play? Personally, I have to agree with Captain Japan's earlier comment that the team the US fielded at the start of the competition was probably as strong as it could possibly have been.