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Ketou wrote:In my opinion Japan is shooting itself in the foot when it comes to immigration. They need more to keep their pathetic nezumiko nenkin and bloated bureaucracy running.
Samurai_Jerk wrote:I think people are missing a couple of points here. First of all, Calderson is not an illegal immigrant. Her parent were and have been forced to leave. She was born in Japan and thus in a kind of legal gray area.
The courts decided they couldn't let the parents stay under immigration law, but felt she should be allowed to finish school in Japan. Breaking up a family isn't exacly a warm, fuzzy, ultra-left decisions and I can understand the reasoning of people who believe it was a bad one whether they think the family should have all been allowed to stay or all been deported. I can also understand why the courts came to this kind of a compromise.
The second point is that these assholes from the Zaitokukai aren't only against the decision to let her stay which, whether you agree or not, isn't a totally outlandish opinion. Based on the kind of shit they were screaming in the video they obviously have a problem with gaijin in general and anyone who's left of extreme-right. And to go make noisy threatening protests in front of elementary and junior high schools and to harass gaijin in the street and call them criminals is way out of line. If you have a problem with what happened, go protest in front of the Warabi City Board of Ed, the court house, the MOJ, or the immigration office.
omae mona wrote::shock: Really? I thought it was clear cut that she was illegal. Other than the fact that the government can grant special visas in cases like this (especially when there is political pressure due to a huge PR campaign), what legal basis was there for her to be in the country? Japan has no laws relating to "jus soli" whatsoever, as far as I know.
Shiiiit.. Who died and left you the choice to choose for those who're chosen to choose for others? You Statue of Liberty, Tea Bagging freak!eddie wrote:.. if someone sneaks in and proves they're good citizens, though, fuck, welcome aboard. that's how i see it. it's a murky issue, to be sure, but in the end, if someone shows themselves to be a good citizen, i see no reason to have punitive penalties. live and let live. move on...
eddie wrote:personally, i would welcome anyone into my country who wants to be a law-abiding productive citizen. it's hard to tell who'll be one.
;)"Yeah, I've been always awkward toward women and have spent pathetic life so far but I could graduate from being a cherry boy by using geisha's pussy at last! Yeah!! And off course I have an account in Fuckedgaijin.com. Yeah!!!"
nottu wrote:I don't agree with you that in returing to the Philippines, Noriko will be going to nothing - she will have relatives, starting with her mother and father with whom it would be very beneficial live.
The emotion is the problem - why must the child pay for the parent's errors? - old as the hills and just as unfair - but life is not perfectly fair. So we have judges and they have latitude to act in trying, unfair circumstances. But even judges are mindful and careful of the movements they make knowing that law by exception is bad law.
james wrote:it's an emotional reaction to what is for many an emotional issue.. should they be deported according to the letter of the law and in the interest of not setting a bad precedent? probably given that they were and are here illegally.
would i personally have a problem with their staying? assuming they're decent people contributing to society in a positive way and not making problems and fitting in, then no, of course not but it's a bit of a slap in the face to those who came here legally and played by the rules.
that the demonstrators are racist douchebags who picked a very inappropriate venue for their demonstration is not in question and i don't think too many agree with their tactics or motives. they've certainly managed to ruffle a few feathers.
nottu wrote:You just made my point - her parents are going to be in the Phillipines.
What are you doing that everyone can join in on?
xenomorph42 wrote:First of all, that was NOT the point, her parents are there, but we don't know their circumstances on finding employment, re-adjusting to a life they haven't known for years, let alone her daughter.
Again, if they want to deport the family/parents for breaking the law fine, but there needs to be room for a case by case study on each perpetrator that broke the law, each individual should have the right to be properly evaluated.
omae mona wrote:Actually I think we do. On the news yesterday her father commented that he has no immediate prospects for employment and has no idea what he is going to do. But by my reckoning, if he saved any money during the 19 years he was in Japan, he might be rather well off by Philippine standards and be comfortable for a while without working.xenomorph42 wrote:First of all, that was NOT the point, her parents are there, but we don't know their circumstances on finding employment, re-adjusting to a life they haven't known for years, let alone her daughter.
omae mona wrote:xenomorph42 wrote:Again, if they want to deport the family/parents for breaking the law fine, but there needs to be room for a case by case study on each perpetrator that broke the law, each individual should have the right to be properly evaluated.
I thought everybody gets an evaluation, hearing, and opportunity to lodge complaints during the deportation process. Is that not the case? This particular Calderon case involved press conferences and direct involvement from senior bureaucrats. Surely you're not suggesting that level of involvement for each of the hundreds of thousands of estimated visa overstayers, are you?
xenomorph42 wrote:Why yes, I am. And not everyone gets a fair evaluation in Japan, especially if you're a FG, it can go either way(as this case clearly shows) but you will have more or less the odds stacked against you rather than for you. This is just wrong, plain and simple.
xenomorph42 wrote:The girl shouldn't have to suffer and go through this kind of turmoil.
Why yes, I am. And not everyone gets a fair evaluation in Japan, especially if you're a FG, it can go either way(as this case clearly shows) but you will have more or less the odds stacked against you rather than for you. This is just wrong, plain and simple.
TennoChinko wrote:If the main beef of the Zaitokukai is the special treatment accorded to the "Special Permanent Residents" (eg Zainichi Koreans etc), then why didn't they simply hold a rally outside one of the pro-North Korean schools or Chosen Soren headquarters?
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omae mona wrote:You know, I actually *do* think maybe she should suffer. Kids all over the world suffer through much worse things (war, poverty, abuse) than getting sent to their country of citizenship with their parents. And those kids' parents didn't do anything illegal, unlike the Calderons. When you break the law, one consequence is that you fuck up your family. People don't get excused from jail time because it would leave their innocent family with less income, or leave their kids without a parent. I have no ill will against the girl, but I am really irritated she is getting special treatment not afforded to thousands of people in the same situation, merely because they waged a huge PR campaign. And I'd be even more irritated if they let the parents stay in the country. I might feel a little different if the Calderons even once showed some sign of remorse for their passport forgery or overstaying, but they never have apologized. To the contrary, they've shown nothing but a sense of entitlement.
I'm sorry, but when you commit passport forgery or overstay your visa, the odds SHOULD be stacked against you. There are very few legitimate reasons to break these rules, and I don't see any need for further leniency. I have sympathy for individuals who make clerical errors and accidentally overstay by a few days, if they try to rectify the problem. I have tons of sympathy for the Swiss woman who was forced to overstay because she was in police detention past her visa expiration. But I have zero sympathy for those who enter the country fraudulently to begin with and continue to break the law for 19 years. I have a little sympathy for their innocent family members who they fuck up as a result, but it's not the government's job to remedy that.
And suggesting that each and every one of the thousands of deportations every year should rise to the level of a TV and media frenzy is simply silly.
Please tell me what cases of unfair evaluation you've seen for people who committed immigration fraud or broke immigration rules. I'm very curious.
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