Int'l married couples.

[American Oyaji]

I think that when people are romancing someone from another culture, theyir standards will not match that of the culture of the person their interested.

Case in point, there is a friend of my girlfriend who everyone (American guys) say is super hot. But my girl says that this woman is ugly by Japanese standards.

Also some people think that Japanese women are less shallow than western women and go more for personality than Western women. Not true.

It's just that they don't see looks the same way as their western counterparts. It's a matter of culture.

[MrUltimateGaijin]

Case in point, there is a friend of my girlfriend who everyone (American guys) say is super hot. But my girl says that this woman is ugly by Japanese standards.

wouldn't Japanese dudes opinions be the relevant ones?

[Samurai_Jerk]

but its true none the less. there are some absolute stinkers here, but by and large, its a far wider strike zone in Japan.

Bull fucking shit.

Anyway, I think the other reason some guys do better here than back home is they lose their inhibitions. It's either because they've heard it's easy to get laid in Japan so they aren't afraid to try or they already know they stick out like a sore thumb and just don't care what anyone thinks.

[Gilligan]

wouldn't Japanese dudes opinions be the relevant ones?

Agreed. When women talk about which women are hot and which women aren't, no guy ever agrees. At the same time, there are plenty of women who Japanese guys would claim are hot and I would totally disagree (personally, I'm not into anorexic, pre-pubescent airheads).

[sublight]

All I know is, back when that god-awful chappatsu-perm look was the rage with 99% of the population, whenever I saw a girl I thought looked hot, the majority of the time she turned out to be with a FG.

[FG Lurker]

Of course there is a fair percentage of gaijin guys that think every women in Japan is an excotic beauty, will walk into a bar full of 4s, 5s, and 6,s and see 8s, 9s, and 10s and go on about how hot all of them are.

*cough* Jack *cough*

[Takechanpoo]

Hot Japanese girls for Japanese guys




Meanwhile...
Hot ones for you asiaphile gaijin dudes (Japanese guys think)

[james]

(personally, I'm not into anorexic, pre-pubescent airheads).

well then you just haven't been here long enough j/k

[FG Lurker]

I have actually heard the "gaijin date ugly women" thing before and I think it comes down to differences in what is considered attractive more than anything else.

[james]

on the subject of int'l marriage and rating women, i'll never forget the day my father-in-law got drunk and, with my wife and mother-in-law in the room, said to me: "you made the same mistake i did.. you married the wrong woman!".

[GomiGirl]

Sorry, GG, but that's the way most guys look at women at first. Obviously, once you get to know someone there are other factors that come in, but if there isn't the first spark of attraction, nothing else matter.

Now I am not going to get all feminazi on your arses - of course I understand the wiring and the visual nature etc... this is not my rant. It is the reduction of a person to a number/ranking out of 10.

I "she's hot/not hot" would actually be preferable.

Plus one man's trash is another man's treasure so all of these discussions are too subjective for my logical brain to compute.

[FG Lurker]

I "she's hot/not hot" would actually be preferable.

You might like my scale then -- 1 or 0. Doable...or not.

[Samurai_Jerk]

You might like my scale then -- 1 or 0. Doable...or not.

My scale is similar but it's 1 - would be seen in public with her, 0 - would not be seen in public with her. I'll do anyone.

[GomiGirl]

You might like my scale then -- 1 or 0. Doable...or not.

Perfect!!!

Actually, what is worse is the drink/beer goggle scale... "She is a six pack before I would do her" or "She is 10 drinks before I would do her"..... Kinda sophomoric.

[Kaiju]

When we view a member of our own ethnic group or nationality and of the opposite gender who is with a person of a different group, we have a primal reaction of feeling threatened and insecure. "What is that asshole doing with her?" or "Why is she with that @!$%"? Such thoughts go through our mind. Some of us are better at repressing them than others. Not so many years ago, a black man would be lynched for just looking at a white woman the wrong way. Now it's commonplace to see black/white couples. We have a tendency to make up excuses to massage our egos like "Well they are only going after our ugly men/women so fine". Western women in Japan see western men with asian women and rationalize, "He's a geek or the popular 'Loser back home". Let's just face it, Japanese men and western woman are never going to be happy about western men and Japanese woman choosing each other as partners. I'll be honest and say that when I see a western woman with a Japanese man, my reaction is "What was she thinking?". By the way, I've been married to the beautiful and charming K...ko for the past 35 years.

[Mulboyne]

You often hear that foreigners hook up with Japanese women who wouldn't be considered attractive by a lot of Japanese men. The most common example, still mentioned even today, is John Lennon and Yoko Ono. Not only was Yoko regarded as having quite a hard face, she was seven years older than John and thought of as a bit of a nutter. Many Japanese men couldn't understand why a man with Lennon's talent, fame and fortune would select someone like her. There were a lot in the west who though the same.

One reason for this, and I'm getting into dangerous waters here, is often that a foreign man hasn't, how shall I put it, "got his eye in" when he first comes across an Asian girl. That can be especially true if he meets her overseas where the exoticism gets an extra boost. The reason he might stay with her or marry her, though, is often because she turns out to have a lot of qualities that he wants in a partner whether it be intelligence, a sense of humour, kindness, compassion or great sexual technique. A girl who is more attractive superficially will then always find it hard to make an impression if she has nothing else to offer. There seems little doubt that John Lennon remained deeply in love with Yoko Ono.

There is the language angle as well. I know there are many members here who have found partners who don't speak English but a lot of Westerners do develop relationships with girls who can speak it. On the surface, there's no inevitable reason why girls who choose to learn English would be less attractive than the general population. However, a Japanese man looking at a group of Japanese expats in New York, might get the impression there's something lacking compared with a similar group of girls in Tokyo. A lot of that would be down to clothes, body language and even diet which can all make subtle, or not so subtle, changes. I also know Japanese men who don't care for the sound of a Japanese girl speaking English. Not out of any xenophobic reflex, but simply because the tone and pitch of the voice seems less pleasant on the ear.

A girl who learns English and travels abroad might also delay getting married. Often when a Japanese man thinks that a foreigner is with an unattractive partner, its just because he thinks she seems too old for him, as in the case of Yoko Ono. Age difference can be no barrier for a foreigner, though, because she might still look a few years younger than a western girl the same age.

[Adhesive]

Ah, where to start? So many good points made by everybody, including GG.

I would say the average women I've seen married to a gaijin was no prettier or uglier than the average Japanese women. I think one of the issues is that a lot of Japanese guys think that every gaijin (read white man, since that's usually what they mean) is a Charisma Man stud in Japan and could land Fujiwara Norika if he wanted to.

This is so true. If you really look at all the int'l couples, the proportion of mismatched hotness factors is no greater than the mismatches you would find an a mono-cultural pairing. What really drives this perception is the Japanese' inability to distinguish the attractiveness of non-Japanese males. I've actually had an Indian neighbor say to me "You're so tall and handsome, why did you marry an Asian girl?" So, in the mind of some Asian men, if a Western person chooses to be with an Asian girl, it would have to be the absolute creme de la creme to justify abandoning Western tail. In actuality, most Western men will agree that the average Asian girl is prefereable to the average, cellulite-ridden Westerner.

Another thing that compounds this perception is the fact that most Western men don't ultimately hook up with, and marry, super hot J-chicks, whereas you do see them running around with J-guys from time to time. I think the reason for this is that, statistically, a super hot J-girl, just like a super hot Western girl, devotes little time to things like learning English, traveling abroad, developing a personality that would be interesting to Western men, or landing jobs that would expose them to Westerner men, etc. I know that is a generalization, but it holds true. The better looking you are, the less your personality is forced to develop, especially in the case of women. The less your personaility develops, the less you expand outside of your immediate culture/enviroment and interact with different people. So, even if it were possible for a Western man to date way above his number, there is a certain cap where he no longer has a pool to draw from. Can a Western 8 pull a Japanese 10? Sure, but the problem is there are too few Japanese 10s who would be parterning material for Western men.

Another issue is that a lot of time Japanese guys and foreign guys have different standards of beauty. I was at a friend's house party earlier this year and one of the guests was a Japanese girl who was a stripper with huge tits and a nice round ass. Every gaijin in the room was picking his jaw up off the floor while all the Japanese guys thought she was "too big."

Also true, and it even breaks down by gender. My wife looks more Korean, and the features that attracted me to her (high cheek bones, folded Wester-like eye-lids, petite body, and round ass) are not things typically found attractive by Japanese men. But, I've had a lot of Japanese girls tell me that my wife is so beautiful.

That's the typical opinion of guys who couldn't get laid back home.

This I disagree with, to an extent. While it might be true that many Western guys that ultimately find their way to Japan or hook up with someone outside their race/ethnicity, are the type who were a bit socially awkward back home, don't discount the effect of YBF. I think some guys just really get off on Asian girls, and so those 5s are 8s to them, regardless of their track-record back home. I was sleeping with 2 different white girls when I met my first Japanese girlfriend. I have NEVER had a problem with white chicks. But, YBF has certainly made me overestimate the rating of J-girl or two in my time.

This type of categorising makes me feel ill.

You are talking about people here!! Thinking somebody a "4" or a "10" based on looks alone (hello!! genetics people) just cheapens both yourself and them.

Sorry for rant - not directed at Bo-sensei per se, just this sort of locker room speak gets pretty old in mixed company.

Attractiveness often correlates with genetic fitness. Men are hard-wired to breed with women that increase their reproductive fitness. It might be wrong, but it's not going to change regardless of how much "education" is foisted upon us. From an evolutionary standpoint, men are not concerned with being provided for by a woman, sticking around with a woman, or having introspective conversations with women. We are hard-wired to plant our seed in viable soil and move on to the next plot. So things like education, career, and personality are simply not going to be discussed in the "locker room" of men. Which f'dgaijin arguably is.

And at the end of the day, who the fuck are you to be making such judgements...

Potential mates. At the end of the day we are exactly the type of people to be making such judgements, just as women judge the personality and career/status actualization of men. There's nothing wrong with it unless it is dictating how you treat the person outside of initiating a relationship with them...which is the topic of the thread.

[Dragonette]

Now I am not going to get all feminazi on your arses - of course I understand the wiring and the visual nature etc... this is not my rant. It is the reduction of a person to a number/ranking out of 10.

"she's hot/not hot" would actually be preferable.

Plus one man's trash is another man's treasure so all of these discussions are too subjective for my logical brain to compute.

Agreed! The good thing about female taste is that it is so varied that it would be impossible for us to agree on a number for any guy, so we sort them out with minimal catfights. It comes down to "would I or wouldn't I"...

My personal taste is not classically handsome, but something "cute" will ring my bell. This one has great eyes, that one has great shoulders, etc. And of course they need a unique interesting personality too.

Sorry, GG, but that's the way most guys look at women at first. Obviously, once you get to know someone there are other factors that come in, but if there isn't the first spark of attraction, nothing else matter.

I think that applies to most women, too. Marrying for cash or security, which seems to be a J-gal thing, sounds like a very bad deal to me. If you're gonna sell it, rather than sign a long-term contract, it makes more sense to free-lance one night at a time, ne.

I still find my man, after 27 years of very stormy marriage, physically attractive (though I'm sometimes tempted to strangle him). If he weren't, it would have been more than a temptation.

[Greji]

This type of categorising makes me feel ill.

You are talking about people here!! Thinking somebody a "4" or a "10" based on looks alone (hello!! genetics people) just cheapens both yourself and them.

And at the end of the day, who the fuck are you to be making such judgements...

Sorry for rant - not directed at Bo-sensei per se, just this sort of locker room speak gets pretty old in mixed company.

You're spot on as usual Gomi, but I'll still do a 2 or a 3 in a flash..

[Greji]

An understanding wife?

Gil, that commodity does not exist. As I mentioned before, the only difference between an elephant and a Japanese wife, is that an elephant sometimes forgets....

[Greji]

but its true none the less. there are some absolute stinkers here, but by and large, its a far wider strike zone in Japan.

It also depends on how many pints the umpire has had before time is called...

[Greji]

It comes down to "would I or wouldn't I"...

Picky, picky, picky. I use the daylight or darkness test. Having no morals and being basically dishonest helps. I've woke with a bad head and looked over to see something next to me sleeping on my arm that reminds me of a coyote caught in a trap! You want to gnaw the limb off to escape!

Picking and choosing leads to long dry spells between lays....

[Samurai_Jerk]

In actuality, most Western men will agree that the average Asian girl is prefereable to the average, cellulite-ridden Westerner.

Do you mean the average Western guy in Japan or worldwide? If it's Japan, I agree. If you mean worldwide, I think you're projecting. Most of my non Asian friends in the US aren't that attracted to Japanese/Asian women and they usually make fun of guys who are. When my dad came for a visit he asked me if the women start looking better to you after you've lived here for awhile (I said "no"). My brother was also unimpressed by their looks when he visited. I met a white Amerian couple when I was backpacking in Laos. The girl was an ex JET and they had both gone to visit Japan before going to Laos. The guy told me he thought the Japanese were the ugliest people in the world.

I personally am attracted to girls that I think are pretty. I don't care what their ethnicity, race, or nationality is. That's not me being PC either. That's just a fact. Japanese or Asian women don't get a special pass.

In reality most people are attracted to their "own kind". How that's defined of course depends on the society you grow up in.

Marrying for cash or security, which seems to be a J-gal thing

That's a woman thing, period.

[Neo-Rio]

[quote="Dragonette"]
I think that applies to most women, too. Marrying for cash or security, which seems to be a J-gal thing, sounds like a very bad deal to me. If you're gonna sell it, rather than sign a long-term contract, it makes more sense to free-lance one night at a time, ne. ]

In essence, you're saying that all married women are contract whores.

If any man wonders why his wife changed after they got married, this would be it. Suddenly you're no longer friends - you're paying for a personal whore.... and one that doesn't even have to have sex with you.

Somehow, this is supposed to give a woman "security", but I figure that if a marriage contract that can be terminated, and completely destroyed along with the friendship (if there ever was any) at almost at any time, a marriage is completely insecure.
You'd have more security by living with friends who actually cared about you and will help you out in times of need (and hey, you could even have sex with them too if you wanted), or by keeping a dog around the house.

Seems like marriage is utterly pointless. Seems like a man is better off knocking some girl up and paying child support if he wants to have a family.

[kusai Jijii]

Now I am not going to get all feminazi on your arses - of course I understand the wiring and the visual nature etc... this is not my rant. It is the reduction of a person to a number/ranking out of 10.

What? Like women dont objectify men? And in J-pan of all places? GG, stay off the drugs mate.

[kusai Jijii]

Bull fucking shit.

Right. Ok then. You win.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Right. Ok then. You win.

As long as you concede, I'm happy .

But anyway, I've said it before and I'll say it again, I fail to see what's so special about the appearance of Japanese women. Until they learn how to remove body hair properly, keep the hair on their head healthy, walk straight, speak in adult voices, maintain their teeth, do their make up and wear sexy underwear they won't be able to compete.

[GomiGirl]

What? Like women dont objectify men? And in J-pan of all places? GG, stay off the drugs mate.

JiJi - what have we told you about drinking and typing???

I said it was the number ranking that bothered me. Hot/not hot was normal...

[FG Lurker]

I said it was the number ranking that bothered me. Hot/not hot was normal...

I don't really see the difference actually. I rate as 0/1 as mentioned above, but only because that's what it comes down to in the end. It's really the same thing though, rating a person solely on physical attraction.

[nottu]