Nobel Dilemma Puts Dual Nationality On The Agenda

[Pearse]

I guess the Japanese government asks you to give up your other nationality if you naturalize, but do they actually follow up on this and find out if you have? I am US national with PR and have been living in Japan for nearly two decades. I am thinking about getting Japanese citizenship but would I really have to really give up my US citizneship?

[maraboutslim]

Of course not. Do you think the Japanese government can somehow tell the USA who they can and can't consider citizens? They could ask you to give up your passport and make some sort of pledge, but five minutes later you can march right down and apply for a new one.

[TennoChinko]

Only if you don't get caught.

For example, if you were a Japanese citizen living in the US who naturalized as a US citizen, you'd have to be careful when renewing your Japanese passport. Some reports have indicated that Japanese Consulates and the Embassy will now question those without the relevant US visa stamps in their Japanese passports. The solution is to return to Japan, and do it there.

And, if returning to the US, you'd be breaking US law if re-entering the country on anything other than a US passport (if you are a US citizen, that is). The absence of any visa stamps in one's Japanese passport upon returning to Japan would provide an easy indicator to Japanese Immigration & Customs officials that the person has another (US) passport. Most people I know have been able to travel this way without any trouble (eg. there seems to be a bureaucratic blind eye) however at the same time, there have been occasional anecdotal reports in the press about dual passport holders being detained upon entry at the airport, confronted by officials and coerced into giving up their Japanese passport.

[Fullback]

The rules have changed since the days when David became debito.

There are new "exit" taxes (since 2009) for people renouncing American citizenship and new rules meant to punish you. You would be placed into a database (you would now be considered a traitor) and harassed by immigration upon any future entry or transit through the country. Expect all laptops, ipads, memory sticks, phones and electronic devises to be confiscated.

You can't simply walk into the embassy and hand in your passport anymore. You'll have to endure multiple interrogations by Homeland Security, IRS, and the even the FBI at the embassy during weekdays. The new rules require those who renounce citizenship to pay thousands of dollars of "expenses," which are really just fees to harass you.

You'll be audited by the IRS for all the years you've been in Japan. There are new rules also about investments and property. I understand that you must now pay a special tax for all (personal) property you have acquired while out of the country.

After these and other hoops are jumped through, you still are not considered free of any obligations to the US. You are still subject to the same tax obligations for another ten years after you renounce your citizenship.

I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish by taking on Japanese citizenship.

[TennoChinko]

Not really...

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/american-expatriation-guide

The American Expatriation Guide
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 05/05/2010 02:52 -0500

A reader and former US citizen provides this extensive guide for American expatriation. As noted, "For Americans, reliable information about how to exercise the right of expatriation is very difficult to find without incurring substantial costs. Many high net worth individuals never consider it simply because the subject seems so mysterious and intimidating. Yet freeing yourself from the global U.S. tax net provides the highest guaranteed return on capital that any American will ever know. The purpose of this guide is to demystify expatriation, highlight its many benefits, and provide a roadmap to follow should Americans choose to exercise the right. I hope it will be an invaluable resource to your readers. I am the sole author of the guide, and it is my desire to remain anonymous. As I note in the document, I give unrestricted, royalty- free permission to any and all parties to reproduce, publish and distribute this guide, in whole or in part, on any form of media in all territories throughout the world."

PDF is here: http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/American_Expatriation_Guide.pdf

[Fullback]

That site looks almost as reliable as Wikipedia. Follow that advice and let us know how it works out for you.

[Pearse]

Thank you, Fullback and TennoChinko.

I will have a look at that.

[CrankyBastard]

I am US national with PR and have been living in Japan for nearly two decades. I am thinking about getting Japanese citizenship

Just out of curiosity, why after all this time here, would you be thinking this way?

[Fullback]

By the way, my last comment about following advice of that site was for TennoChinko.

I don't think we always know all the reasons for the decisions that people make. Good luck in whichever path you choose.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

This isn't really about Merkins naturalizing as Japknees....

[FG Lurker]

There are new "exit" taxes (since 2009) for people renouncing American citizenship and new rules meant to punish you. You would be placed into a database (you would now be considered a traitor) and harassed by immigration upon any future entry or transit through the country. Expect all laptops, ipads, memory sticks, phones and electronic devises to be confiscated.

You can't simply walk into the embassy and hand in your passport anymore. You'll have to endure multiple interrogations by Homeland Security, IRS, and the even the FBI at the embassy during weekdays. The new rules require those who renounce citizenship to pay thousands of dollars of "expenses," which are really just fees to harass you.

You'll be audited by the IRS for all the years you've been in Japan. There are new rules also about investments and property. I understand that you must now pay a special tax for all (personal) property you have acquired while out of the country.

After these and other hoops are jumped through, you still are not considered free of any obligations to the US. You are still subject to the same tax obligations for another ten years after you renounce your citizenship.

I've never wanted to be American but things like this make me damn glad I'm not.

[Samurai_Jerk]

There are new "exit" taxes (since 2009) for people renouncing American citizenship and new rules meant to punish you. You would be placed into a database (you would now be considered a traitor) and harassed by immigration upon any future entry or transit through the country. Expect all laptops, ipads, memory sticks, phones and electronic devises to be confiscated.

You can't simply walk into the embassy and hand in your passport anymore. You'll have to endure multiple interrogations by Homeland Security, IRS, and the even the FBI at the embassy during weekdays. The new rules require those who renounce citizenship to pay thousands of dollars of "expenses," which are really just fees to harass you.

You'll be audited by the IRS for all the years you've been in Japan. There are new rules also about investments and property. I understand that you must now pay a special tax for all (personal) property you have acquired while out of the country.

After these and other hoops are jumped through, you still are not considered free of any obligations to the US. You are still subject to the same tax obligations for another ten years after you renounce your citizenship.

I've never wanted to be American but things like this make me damn glad I'm not.

I'd rather be a citizen of any other Western nation.

[American Oyaji]

There are new "exit" taxes (since 2009) for people renouncing American citizenship and new rules meant to punish you. You would be placed into a database (you would now be considered a traitor) and harassed by immigration upon any future entry or transit through the country. Expect all laptops, ipads, memory sticks, phones and electronic devises to be confiscated.

You can't simply walk into the embassy and hand in your passport anymore. You'll have to endure multiple interrogations by Homeland Security, IRS, and the even the FBI at the embassy during weekdays. The new rules require those who renounce citizenship to pay thousands of dollars of "expenses," which are really just fees to harass you.

You'll be audited by the IRS for all the years you've been in Japan. There are new rules also about investments and property. I understand that you must now pay a special tax for all (personal) property you have acquired while out of the country.

After these and other hoops are jumped through, you still are not considered free of any obligations to the US. You are still subject to the same tax obligations for another ten years after you renounce your citizenship.

I've never wanted to be American but things like this make me damn glad I'm not.

Ya know, I would never jump through those hoops. If the U.S. went so far that I would want to renounce my citizenship, I wouldn't renounce it. I'd just become a citizen someplace else and tell the U.S. to EF itself if they came asking and mail them a microwaved passport.

The. U.S. is no longer the country I swore to protect.

[Ketou]

I don't know if I missed it in all the legal chit chat, but did anyone define the terms? Like...what is a citizen?

[Samurai_Jerk]

There are new "exit" taxes (since 2009) for people renouncing American citizenship and new rules meant to punish you. You would be placed into a database (you would now be considered a traitor) and harassed by immigration upon any future entry or transit through the country. Expect all laptops, ipads, memory sticks, phones and electronic devises to be confiscated.

You can't simply walk into the embassy and hand in your passport anymore. You'll have to endure multiple interrogations by Homeland Security, IRS, and the even the FBI at the embassy during weekdays. The new rules require those who renounce citizenship to pay thousands of dollars of "expenses," which are really just fees to harass you.

You'll be audited by the IRS for all the years you've been in Japan. There are new rules also about investments and property. I understand that you must now pay a special tax for all (personal) property you have acquired while out of the country.

After these and other hoops are jumped through, you still are not considered free of any obligations to the US. You are still subject to the same tax obligations for another ten years after you renounce your citizenship.

I've never wanted to be American but things like this make me damn glad I'm not.

Ya know, I would never jump through those hoops. If the U.S. went so far that I would want to renounce my citizenship, I wouldn't renounce it. I'd just become a citizen someplace else and tell the U.S. to EF itself if they came asking and mail them a microwaved passport.

The. U.S. is no longer the country I swore to protect.

The only problem with that is you're making a commitment to never go back which is tough if you still have friends and/or family there.

[American Oyaji]

Yeah, America can be a vindictive bitch like that.

[Coligny]

Yeah, America can be a vindictive bitch like that.

Guys, had we known that you'd become such a wreck we'd let the english haz you...

Result would have been the same except you'd still be speaking proper english...

Damn you Lafayete...

[yanpa]

Maybe you should ask for your statue back?

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Guys, had we known that you'd become such a wreck we'd let the english haz you...

I thought the wreck part was the French legacy? And Lose-iana.

[Coligny]

Fuck yeah... They are totally in breach of contract...