Credit Cards - If you can't beat em, join em?

[matsuki]

So after following every guide I could find on the subject and still being denied for every credit card I've applied for in Japan, I recently came across someone that works in the department that makes the decision to accept or deny the applications. I explained everything I had done/tried up until now, which also included getting print outs from the credit reporting agencies. After a lengthy discussion, the guy basically told me the reason I kept getting denied was my foreign looking name. He said that with no credit history, no marriage to J-national, and not working at a "famous" or very large company, the chances of getting approved were slim Besides getting married to a J-national, he said I should take the path of those much loved Zainichi and register a Japanese alias to apply with using the health insurance card. He said to let the new employer know the CC company would likely be calling and not to be afraid to BS the length of time at that employer or at that address.

Just like many of you, I already have an alias registered in the form of my full name in katakana. After finding that was still not in a format understandable by any Japanese, I went further and registered a second alias with my last name in Kanji, and first name in katakana, omitting my middle names for simplicity. (It works better but still definitely looks quite foreign.) It just so happens I've recently changed my phone number, will be moving and changing employers this month. So.....if I were ever to take this guy's advice, it couldn't be better timed....but this seems a bit extreme, no? Have any of you guys done this? Any advice? Warnings?

[damn name]

Time and permanent residency changes many things. I found it easy to get a Saison AMX and Visa, plus getting a Visa from my bank was as easy as asking for a napkin.

[dimwit]

Time and permanent residency changes many things. I found it easy to get a Saison AMX and Visa, plus getting a Visa from my bank was as easy as asking for a napkin.

Whatever you do, never try to get a credit card through Japan Post, absolutely hopeless twats.

[Samurai_Jerk]

When I opened an account at Shinsei they asked if I had an Amex in the US. When I said I did, they asked for my card number and name as it was registered with Amex in the US. They said it was easier to get approved that way and I was approved despite only being back in Japan for two months after 4 years out of the country, being on a student visa and only having a part-time job which I had just started that month as my sole source of income.

My point is that if you have an Amex in your home country and you're in good standing, it seems they do actually consider that when deciding whether or not to give you a credit card in Japan. Since then I've been rejected for three Visa Cards: once by MUFJ and twice by Shinsei.

[FG Lurker]

I got an AMEX from Costco a few years back. I can't remember if I had PR at the time or not. Tried to apply for a Costco Orico MasterCard just after that and was denied. Not sure if AMEX is more gaijin-friendly or not but the applications were identical and one was approved an the other not, so...

[matsuki]

Time and permanent residency changes many things. I found it easy to get a Saison AMX and Visa, plus getting a Visa from my bank was as easy as asking for a napkin.

No luck at any of the banks I opened accounts with.

Whatever you do, never try to get a credit card through Japan Post, absolutely hopeless twats.

I've been hearing this was the easiest place to get a card through...only one I've yet to try actually.

When I opened an account at Shinsei they asked if I had an Amex in the US. When I said I did, they asked for my card number and name as it was registered with Amex in the US. They said it was easier to get approved that way and I was approved despite only being back in Japan for two months after 4 years out of the country, being on a student visa and only having a part-time job which I had just started that month as my sole source of income.

My point is that if you have an Amex in your home country and you're in good standing, it seems they do actually consider that when deciding whether or not to give you a credit card in Japan. Since then I've been rejected for three Visa Cards: once by MUFJ and twice by Shinsei.

Very interesting, never heard of that before. I used to have AMEX in the US but I closed all my cards before coming here.

I got an AMEX from Costco a few years back. I can't remember if I had PR at the time or not. Tried to apply for a Costco Orico MasterCard just after that and was denied. Not sure if AMEX is more gaijin-friendly or not but the applications were identical and one was approved an the other not, so...

Another card I heard was "easy" to get. Orico first demanded my gaijin card to apply (a very big nono as they will never approve you if they have proof you're not naturalized and/or know what visa you're on) despite having nothing but a verbal order from above that demanded gaijin cards as ID for all gaijin. I went a lil debito on them and when the superior came on the phone, they said I could apply online using my DL. A week later, another "thank you but sorry, denied" letter in the mail.

Scour all the credit card posts via google and the guy's name explanation has a point. The system appears to be completely inconsistent and with no explanations, all you can really do is guess at their reasons...but FG are at large, declined without much to distinguish them from Japanese other than their names. With no need to show a passport, proof of citizenship or visa status, and no SSN to reasonably track individuals, maybe the Zainichi have been on to this the whole time.

[dimwit]

I've been hearing this was the easiest place to get a card through...only one I've yet to try actually.

No,no,no. They are the absolute worst. Bureaucratic beyond anything I have ever experienced in immigration. For example, since I have a double barrel middle name they insisted on using for my postal savings account except that for some reason only known to them they dubbed me First name-last name-middle name name-middle name. So they wanted me to apply for a credit card with my name in that order, which I told them was wrong, after a bunch of teeth sucking they phoned Mastercard and told me to come back I few days later. Mastercard told them that they only accept 18 characters on the card (my complete name has 26) so that they guessed it was okay. I returned to the post office about a week later they insisted that they needed an extra three document to prove that my name was actually in the order that I told them it was in. Another few days of various fool's errands and they finally processed my application. I week or two later I got a rejection letter.

The very next day they had the cheek to ask my wife if she wanted to buy insurance from them.

[Samurai_Jerk]

No,no,no. They are the absolute worst. Bureaucratic beyond anything I have ever experienced in immigration. For example, since I have a double barrel middle name they insisted on using for my postal savings account except that for some reason only known to them they dubbed me First name-last name-middle name name-middle name. So they wanted me to apply for a credit card with my name in that order, which I told them was wrong, after a bunch of teeth sucking they phoned Mastercard and told me to come back I few days later. Mastercard told them that they only accept 18 characters on the card (my complete name has 26) so that they guessed it was okay. I returned to the post office about a week later they insisted that they needed an extra three document to prove that my name was actually in the order that I told them it was in. Another few days of various fool's errands and they finally processed my application. I week or two later I got a rejection letter.

The very next day they had the cheek to ask my wife if she wanted to buy insurance from them.

I think it really depends on individual experience. I've heard the post office is easier too.

By the way, does anyone know if there really is a difference? It's not the banks that reject your application, it's some sort of credit agency. Isn't everyone sending the application to the same place?

[Yokohammer]

I think it really depends on individual experience. I've heard the post office is easier too.

By the way, does anyone know if there really is a difference? It's not the banks that reject your application, it's some sort of credit agency. Isn't everyone sending the application to the same place?

I believe the people issuing the card decide whether to accept you, be it a bank, store, gas stand, or whatever.

They all check your credit history at the same credit agency though. I think there are two credit agencies that most of the credit card issuers in Japan use ... and I've completely forgotten the name of the main one. I'll check.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I believe the people issuing the card decide whether to accept you, be it a bank, store, gas stand, or whatever.

They all check your credit history at the same credit agency though. I think there are two credit agencies that most of the credit card issuers in Japan use ... and I've completely forgotten the name of the main one. I'll check.

When I get rejection letters they aren't from the bank though. They're from the credit agency.

[damn name]

I was rejected the first few times, too. I had a conversation with a supervisor and was subsequently approved for two cards. Conversation is a two-way communication of information and a learned skill.

Confrontation is something you should grow out of, not embrace.

[Yokohammer]

When I get rejection letters they aren't from the bank though. They're from the credit agency.

Oh yeah ... often the issuer will leave it up to a third party (which is sometimes a "kogaisha" of the issuing party). For example, UC Card handles all the credit card stuff for Saison and Parco and quite a few other issuers. But I thought banks handled their own credit cards. I know that Citibank has an internal division that does their credit cards. JR has their own credit company for sure. Rakuten has some kogaisha that does it, if I remember.

Here's the credit records/checking agency I was thinking of. As far as I know all issuers check your credit history with these guys.
http://www.cic.co.jp/index.html

EDIT: If you have no credit history in Japan, chances are you'll get rejected. It's catch-22: you need to have credit to build a credit history, but you can't get credit if you don't have a credit history.

[Yokohammer]

I was rejected the first few times, too. I had a conversation with a supervisor and was subsequently approved for two cards.

This was the way it went for me too. I was rejected at first (no credit history at the time), but some sincere and non-confrontational discussion with the card issuer broke down the barriers and I eventually got my card. Some credit card companies won't even talk to you once they've send you a rejection letter though (I found AMEX Japan to be that way, but apparently others have have found otherwise ... guess it's a matter of timing and who you happen to get on the phone that day). You have to find one that's willing to talk.

[dimwit]

I suppose that being a foreigner in the eyes of a Japanese credit agency is somewhere just slightly above being a homeless person.

[Coligny]

Got plenty of family member credit card, but none of mine. So went to me Julie aichi bank, to open an account, transfer few milliun yens leaving quite more than a few in the account she got there. And then proceeded to ask for a credit card (because, without... money is quite land locked... which is unwise when said country is turning fast into a nukular wasteland). The chief of the branch refused to even let me apply...

Next day they got two account closed... fook'em...

The biggest stupidity is the fact they don't even have Visa debit card, only credit cards... I don't give a frack aboot the 'credit' part, important for me is the 'visa' part... Luckily Rakuten do booth... without pulling an Ishihara on your ass...

[matsuki]

No,no,no. They are the absolute worst. Bureaucratic beyond anything I have ever experienced in immigration. For example, since I have a double barrel middle name they insisted on using for my postal savings account except that for some reason only known to them they dubbed me First name-last name-middle name name-middle name. So they wanted me to apply for a credit card with my name in that order, which I told them was wrong, after a bunch of teeth sucking they phoned Mastercard and told me to come back I few days later. Mastercard told them that they only accept 18 characters on the card (my complete name has 26) so that they guessed it was okay. I returned to the post office about a week later they insisted that they needed an extra three document to prove that my name was actually in the order that I told them it was in. Another few days of various fool's errands and they finally processed my application. I week or two later I got a rejection letter.

The very next day they had the cheek to ask my wife if she wanted to buy insurance from them.

I still have a bank account open with them and it's pretty much the same way...I also have an extra name in there so it doesn't even fit. This was the first of many encounters that lead me to register the alias with just a Kanji last name and my first name. (Omitting the rest) This will make your life easier here in sooooooooooo many ways...but apparently it's still foreign enough to get you rejected for credit cards.

I was rejected the first few times, too. I had a conversation with a supervisor and was subsequently approved for two cards. Conversation is a two-way communication of information and a learned skill.

Confrontation is something you should grow out of, not embrace.

This was the way it went for me too. I was rejected at first (no credit history at the time), but some sincere and non-confrontational discussion with the card issuer broke down the barriers and I eventually got my card. Some credit card companies won't even talk to you once they've send you a rejection letter though (I found AMEX Japan to be that way, but apparently others have have found otherwise ... guess it's a matter of timing and who you happen to get on the phone that day). You have to find one that's willing to talk.

Who did you guys talk to and how did you get ahold of them? Most issuers aren't accessible by phone and won't talk to you about the denial nor will they even tell you why they denied you...

Here's the credit records/checking agency I was thinking of. As far as I know all issuers check your credit history with these guys.
http://www.cic.co.jp/index.html

EDIT: If you have no credit history in Japan, chances are you'll get rejected. It's catch-22: you need to have credit to build a credit history, but you can't get credit if you don't have a credit history.

THIS

I went down to their offices, filled out their forms and got a copy of their records. Same with JICC (I think that was the name), both had all my applications (denials) and nothing else. As you say, catch-22. They try to pull the same BS with the Alias...they want some official documentation before they'll register it for you but that's pretty hard to provide unless you already have it registered. The trick is to call the utilities, you can have them put any name you want on the bills. They don't check ID or anything. Once you have your first bills, you have your official documents and you can go register the alias.

Sounds like it's a worthwhile experiment. My first name is easy enough to Japanize but now I have to come up with a Japanese last name to use. This should be interesting...

[Typhoon]

Whatever you do, never try to get a credit card through Japan Post, absolutely hopeless twats.

That's interesting as for a long time J-Post was one of the few ATMs that would accept a foreign card.

I do miss the "Please be careful of things left behind" advice after withdrawing cash.

[Mock Cockpit]

Do you have any kind of status with any airline mileage program? Have a T-card or some other kind of retail point card? They might be worth a try, after all if you don't have a card how can you go on drunken midnight internet shopping binges. It's a fucking scandal!

[matsuki]

Do you have any kind of status with any airline mileage program? Have a T-card or some other kind of retail point card? They might be worth a try, after all if you don't have a card how can you go on drunken midnight internet shopping binges. It's a fucking scandal!

ANA Platinum and an unused T-Card where they tried to romanize their interpretation of my name....I never thought I'd see my name in Engrish. I tried for the JCB ANA mileage card with no luck.

Maybe I should register as Ishihara or something else out there any suggestions?

[Mock Cockpit]

ANA Platinum and an unused T-Card where they tried to romanize their interpretation of my name....I never thought I'd see my name in Engrish. I tried for the JCB ANA mileage card with no luck.

You could try calling the ANA Mileage Club desk directly and explaining your situation and seeing what they can do to help. I mean it'd be a shame for a Platinum level member to shift his custom to JAL, wouldn't it?

[matsuki]

You could try calling the ANA Mileage Club desk directly and explaining your situation and seeing what they can do to help. I mean it'd be a shame for a Platinum level member to shift his custom to JAL, wouldn't it?

Hahaha, they might be happy to see me go though. My friend works for ANA and says I'm on some sort of customer watch list. (Back in 2008 while I was managing a race team, ANA dropped the ball several times and it was my job to deal with all the issues.) The real problem though, is that they aren't the ones who approve or decline credit.

[Mike Oxlong]

Hahaha, they might be happy to see me go though. My friend works for ANA and says I'm on some sort of customer watch list. (Back in 2008 while I was managing a race team, ANA dropped the ball several times and it was my job to deal with all the issues.) The real problem though, is that they aren't the ones who approve or decline credit.

It's not necessarily bad to be on the DFW list...

[matsuki]

It's not necessarily bad to be on the DFW list...

This is true, they don't deny my requests very often

So I ended up picking out a badass sounding Japanese last name that is, while not as common as Tanaka/Sato/etc. but is at least convincing enough....and surprisingly, seems like my first name has become popular enough in Japan recently that there are common Kanji for it. Let's see if this this sways the creditors any. (I have a feeling it will...) I shall register it and report back

[IparryU]

OK... so Shinsei stopped pushing out credit cards as of July and I need to set myself and 3 FG clients up with credit cards...

I want an ANA card so I can get mileage... but that seems fucked. My credit is fucked in the US cause of my Uni loan... (still paying that shit off and near done)

Does anyone have any other advise? Really starting to piss me off trying to get a credit card and gettin rejected cause I am an FG.

I have Lloyds, but that is what I hide from the wife so I don't want to use that for my daily expenses, etc.

Really need something in Japan, Visa/Mastercard, and FG ok.

sucks how shinsei stopped... fuck off.

UPDATE:
Suruga Bank has a campaign for debit cards...
Rakuten Bank is also campaigning...

bout to slam my head in my desk....

[matsuki]

IPU, GP has some ad on their site for a gaijin friendly credit card. Might want to look into that as well. It seems like if you get one J-card and establish good credit history for 1yr+, your chances of getting approved for other cards increases despite your FGness. (though the discrimination is still there)

It's going to take me about 2~3 months to see if my Japanese alias method works but I'm already on it. All the utilities at my new address are in that name now and as soon as I have bills from them, it's off to the shiyakusho I go to get it officially registered. Next my NHI card and DL. Then I can open up a bank account in that name and apply for credit under that name using the NHI card as ID.

[IparryU]

IPU, GP has some ad on their site for a gaijin friendly credit card. Might want to look into that as well. It seems like if you get one J-card and establish good credit history for 1yr+, your chances of getting approved for other cards increases despite your FGness. (though the discrimination is still there)

It's going to take me about 2~3 months to see if my Japanese alias method works but I'm already on it. All the utilities at my new address are in that name now and as soon as I have bills from them, it's off to the shiyakusho I go to get it officially registered. Next my NHI card and DL. Then I can open up a bank account in that name and apply for credit under that name using the NHI card as ID.

thanks for the infos chokonen. ughh... it may just be morning for me... but GP? the only thing that i can think of with GP is Pride... err ya...

update from my side... Shinsei offers AmEx cards... but i need visa/mastercard for savings plans, etc.

will def google GP right now and find out that stuffs

this is what I want... visa, suica, ana miles...
http://www.ana.co.jp/wws/japan/e/local/amc/reference/anacard/

will i get approved? ya... right

[matsuki]

thanks for the infos chokonen. ughh... it may just be morning for me... but GP? the only thing that i can think of with GP is Pride... err ya...

update from my side... Shinsei offers AmEx cards... but i need visa/mastercard for savings plans, etc.

will def google GP right now and find out that stuffs

this is what I want... visa, suica, ana miles...
http://www.ana.co.jp/wws/japan/e/local/amc/reference/anacard/

will i get approved? ya... right

GP as in "the pot" that seems to always have a few floaters in it. I can't seem to find the ad anymore though:(

I did find you this: http://cre-egm.com/job/9.html

I wonder how that new residency card will affect this issue...

[james]

Whatever you do, never try to get a credit card through Japan Post, absolutely hopeless twats.

japan post is definitely a serious pain in the arse when it comes to issues of names. interestingly enough, a guy who works there approached me about getting a card with them, and after only three attempts and resubmitting the application forms, i got one.

[Mock Cockpit]

Not really anything to do with Choko's situation but I had to go into Daiki today and told the missus to give me her Daiki Visa Card to use. She said they wouldn't let me use it, it's not in my name, I said I bet they will. Sure enough at the checkout the lady said, while it's technically against the rules, it's no problem. Fucking amazing, no need to sign anything, no pin number, nothing.

I use my JCB card to get fuel at Eneos and it's the same, put the card in the machine, take it out, get petrol. I guess credit card fraud isn't big on the radar here. So Choko mate they're hard to get at first but once you get one, look out, it's a free for all!

[Mike Oxlong]

I once taught a biz class at a major credit card issuer, and got to hear about the story of one customer who travelled in SE Asia, had his number stolen at a restaurant, and was subsequently charged a pretty hefty fee for long distance telephone calls halfway around the globe. The company refused to even investigate the claim, and actually worked to undermine the customer's story. It was only after the customer did all the legwork himself, with police reports, investigations, etc that the issuer even considered voiding the charge.