"WHY AREN’T JAPANESE PEOPLE FAT?"

[Yokohammer]

I'm one of those people who can train like crazy but don't lose more than a few pounds unless I drastically change my diet. I used to do 2 - 4 hours of Brazilian jiu-jitsu 3 to 4 times a week and jog 5 miles 2 times a week. I lost 5 lbs over several months. Then I stopped jogging because I hated it but kept doing BJJ and cut carbs and alcohol and lost 30 lbs in 3 months.

Cutting carbs works for me too (in fact it's about the only thing that works any more).
Exercise seems to have less effect as you get older.

But I have to cut waaay back ... like, for instance, a small amount of carbs at breakfast and none for the rest of the day.

But I like bread, and pasta, and rice ... damn it ...

[Russell]

Having enough sleep and getting up early also cuts down the weight.

When one is more clear-headed, there is less of an incentive to eat away the feelings of tiredness.

[Russell]

Some fat on the body also comes in handy in a serious illness during which one hardly eats. In those circumstances, it's the skinnies who die first.

Fat stores nutrients. This is not rocket science, and not new. A no-fat diet is a terrible one if you want to be healthy.

Yes, and fat is also necessary for keeping your neurons firing in the proper way. Low-fat diets may put you at risk of depressions.

[Kanchou]

If you do it right (IE, plenty of cardio) it definitely does.

Not according to all the latest studies.

The latest studies generally have always proven the same thing: everyone's body is different. Speaking from experience, I cannot lose weight if I don't do a lot of cardio. I'm also larger than average (well, taller) even in the west.

Anyway, send a link if you can. Would be interested in reading something that proves raising your metabolism through cardio does not cause weight loss.

This is an overview of some recent research. What they are finding is that in general low calorie diets do more for weight loss than exercise. "But what about those Olympians who eat 5000 calories a day and stay slim?", you might ask. Few people have the time or ability to train like that and a lot of those stories are exaggerated. Think about sumo wrestlers or some rugby and football players who train extremely hard but stay fat. It's because they eat a ton of food.

Sumo food (chanko) is expressly intended to put weight on. Only linebackers are fat, for the same reason sumo wrestlers are (to make them harder to push around). Most of a college/professional football team are in great shape, although sizes and weights vary by position.

5000 calories a day for an athlete in training or competition isn't especially high. That's about the same amount a soldier in combat needs. Michael Phelps supposedly eats 12,000 a day. The guys at the keirin school eat enormous bowls of rice at every meal.


Obviously for the average person who's diet (or access to food) isn't being managed by someone else is better with moderate exercise and moderate calorie restriction.

Personally I find appetite management harder than anything else. An hour of bike riding can burn upwards of 1000 calories, but if you don't have a significant calorie deficit you will not lose weight. And it's pretty easy to kill your efforts with katsudon and cocktails.

[gaijinpunch]

This is an overview of some recent research. What they are finding is that in general low calorie diets do more for weight loss than exercise. "But what about those Olympians who eat 5000 calories a day and stay slim?", you might ask. Few people have the time or ability to train like that and a lot of those stories are exaggerated. Think about sumo wrestlers or some rugby and football players who train extremely hard but stay fat. It's because they eat a ton of food.

2 years ago when I was calculating what I ate and burned (w /a 23 hour a day heart monitor) I was at about 3500 calories a day. That's really only with about 70 minutes of exercise 6 daysa week... 2 days a week jogging, 2 days swimming, and 2 days weight training. I work my balls off. I did commute to work on a bicycle, but that was only 6k. It helped, but isn't too much.

If you can't do an hour of exercise a day, then fuck yeah, diet is your only way to stay trim (unless you're a freak). I eat tons of food though... I know what works and what doesn't. I have to diet, and I have to work out. I also was 250 lbs when I was 16, and am heavier now than I was last year at this time, at 187 lbs. So yeah, it's totally a Your Mileage May Vary thing. Honestly, when all these people come out w/ these studies, I take them w/ a shaker of salt.

I will give that an honest read though -- cheers.

Cutting carbs works for me too (in fact it's about the only thing that works any more).

If you're exercising you need carbs though... they're you're fuel. They allow you to exercise more. The trick is to find the balance. I will admit... I eat too many, but lately I have not been "dead" after swimming 3k straight or jogging 12k straight... even in this bullshit weather.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Michael Phelps supposedly eats 12,000 a day.

"Supposedly" being the key word.

If you're exercising you need carbs though... they're you're fuel. They allow you to exercise more. The trick is to find the balance.

I never had any issues training on a low carb diet and I used to train pretty fucking hard.

[Yokohammer]

I never had any issues training on a low carb diet and I used to train pretty fucking hard.

Supplying your daily carb requirement with booze, perhaps?

[BigInJapan]

If the ads I see popping up on Yahoo's site are any indication, it would seem that people in Japan are becoming increasingly conscious about losing weight.

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Yahoo-77kg.jpg

uacjdllhu_bobuutpbel-a[1].gif

[Kanchou]

If the ads I see popping up on Yahoo's site are any indication, it would seem that people in Japan are becoming increasingly conscious about losing weight.

xiemgamohe_v35pmqknz-a[1].gif

Yahoo-77kg.jpg

uacjdllhu_bobuutpbel-a[1].gif

Yeah, but the average fat person in Japan is about half the the size of the average fat American... and there's less of them, too.

Really, you complain about weighing 80 kilos? That's what a typical Japanese baseball player weighs. A typical fat American is closer to 140...

Out of the 400 odd kids I have taught in the last three years, only one was what what you would call fat by American standards (and he's getting bigger...), and maybe a handful were overweight. In American it would be more like, 70-80 kids were fat, and 150 were overweight.

I really need to stop drinking all these cocktails...damn.

[Iraira]

Decided to pretty much become some weird quasi-vegetarian from Monday morning to Friday night. Tofu, yogurt, fruit, and veggies, and I'm pretty much homicidal come Friday. Do the gym thing 4-5 times a week, and pretty much have gotten down to about 10% body fat. I was about 300% body fat when I was in my early 20s, so this is a definite improvement.
Weekends are spent eating everything and anything that gets within range. If that means tokushun oomori stamina don for lunch and black sesame seed ramen for dinner followed by a trip to the 100 yen Lawson in search of Yamazaki pan. well, fuck you digestive system, do your job. Pretty much gain 3-4 kilos every weekend, and pooh it out and sweat it out during the week.

[Uthark_Runa]

When I moved back to the US for a few years, my Japanese wife actually lost weight, with no change other than her diet. The major reason was that she had to mostly eat what I ate. As an athlete its a pretty healthy and complete diet. She never worked out, but seemed to gain muscle tone even. After 5 years we moved back to Japan, and what seemed like over night put on around 6-7kilos. In my opinion is much easier to access affordable quality foods in the US, and a lot more available. Also Id wager a lot more people in the US actually care about their over all health and fitness, instead of just numbers on a scale.
I have spent a total of 10 years in Japan, and personally I have seen a sharp rise in child obesity here. I live a few kilometers away from a US military base, and 2 Japanese Elementary schools, The number of fat Japanese kids compared to US kids looks to be 3 to 1. That is somewhat anecdotal, but also going to Judo tournaments, where I coach, and referee, I see dozens of morbidly obese children. There was a 1st grade girl already 49kilo, and 4th grade boy at only 150cm and 125kg at the last event! He looked as fat as Konishiki did at his biggest!
Im not saying that obesity is not on the rise in the west, but this is not just western problem, this is a 1st world problem. Japan is not immune, in fact they should be more careful. Most of the stats use BMI, as some of you said before and I agree, Japan is the land of skinny fat, fat that accumulates around the internal organs, has been studied, and known to be much more common in those of east Asian decent. A low BMI does nothing to show body composition. For every skinny person I see in japan, there is muscular one in the US, that is being counted as obese due to BMI. I am one of them. At 185cm and 120kg my BMI is dangerous, though I have perfect vitals, and 12% bF. Just food for though.

[matsuki]

I'm w/ choko on this one. Well, I'd say they're unfit, on average.

If they are unfit on average how come the average life expectancy has almost doubled in the last 116 years?

Bullshit data....remember all those dead people collecting gov. support?

Consider how many people in J-land smoke/drink themselves to early graves. Every J-family I know has as much, if not more instances of cancer than the American families I know. Add in mental disorders, suicides, etc. and yeah, the only think I'd say Japan has going for it is the shit care/support for the elderly which literally forces them to be more active...and nearly every elderly person I know seems to live longer, have less mental issues the more active they are.

[Yokohammer]

Decided to pretty much become some weird quasi-vegetarian from Monday morning to Friday night. Tofu, yogurt, fruit, and veggies, and I'm pretty much homicidal come Friday. Do the gym thing 4-5 times a week, and pretty much have gotten down to about 10% body fat. I was about 300% body fat when I was in my early 20s, so this is a definite improvement.
Weekends are spent eating everything and anything that gets within range. If that means tokushun oomori stamina don for lunch and black sesame seed ramen for dinner followed by a trip to the 100 yen Lawson in search of Yamazaki pan. well, fuck you digestive system, do your job. Pretty much gain 3-4 kilos every weekend, and pooh it out and sweat it out during the week.

Sounds good.

I've been considering something similar, but have been put off by the thought of having to convince the wife that I'm going to eat that way (boy, us fatties can rationalize anything ...). But yeah, low-carb vegetarianism, or something close to it, may be the only way I'll be able to get down to and maintain a healthy weight at this age without killing myself with exercise which, although I don't mind it, is limited because I spend 80% of my waking time seated at a fucking desk just to get by.

[Kanchou]

Tofu is good for you but excessive protein will make you fat.

The most I ever lost was when I wrote down the calories of everything I ate in a tiny notepad and rode 16 miles most days. I started using an iPhone app to do the same thing... it just doesn't work. I think it just has to be analog or it won't work for some (psychological reason). But being unable to run or ride five months out of the year here is the worst part. And every time I go to the US I put ten pounds on because of all the food and drink at home.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Decided to pretty much become some weird quasi-vegetarian from Monday morning to Friday night. Tofu, yogurt, fruit, and veggies, and I'm pretty much homicidal come Friday. Do the gym thing 4-5 times a week, and pretty much have gotten down to about 10% body fat. I was about 300% body fat when I was in my early 20s, so this is a definite improvement.
Weekends are spent eating everything and anything that gets within range. If that means tokushun oomori stamina don for lunch and black sesame seed ramen for dinner followed by a trip to the 100 yen Lawson in search of Yamazaki pan. well, fuck you digestive system, do your job. Pretty much gain 3-4 kilos every weekend, and pooh it out and sweat it out during the week.

It sounds like you're doing what's know as intermittent fasting. The theory being that what matters is your overall calorie deficit in a week so if you eat low cal on some days, you don't have to worry too much about it on others and you'll still lose weight. Google the 5/2 diet which is all the rage in the UK now. Anyway, intermittent fasting apparently works as long as you don't overdo it on the non fast days.

[Isle of View]

Obsesity amongst J-youth has certainly increased. over the last 10 years as another poster previously noted.

Perhaps not surprising when MacDonald's is more common than sushi shops.

As for the rest, I thought that is was due to the mass use of public transit.

Walking to the train station, then walking to work. And vice versa.

Even having to stand for an hour during rush hour burns calories.

[nikoneko]

I've always thought it was the size of the portions people eat here. Whenever I go back I can't believe how big the meals are at a typical American restaurant, I can't eat half usually.

[Russell]

I've always thought it was the size of the portions people eat here. Whenever I go back I can't believe how big the meals are at a typical American restaurant, I can't eat half usually.

When I lived in America and visited a restaurant, I usually ordered one meal in total for me, my wife, and my (at the time) baby son.

That was more than sufficient.

[Russell]

Decided to pretty much become some weird quasi-vegetarian from Monday morning to Friday night. Tofu, yogurt, fruit, and veggies, and I'm pretty much homicidal come Friday. Do the gym thing 4-5 times a week, and pretty much have gotten down to about 10% body fat. I was about 300% body fat when I was in my early 20s, so this is a definite improvement.
Weekends are spent eating everything and anything that gets within range. If that means tokushun oomori stamina don for lunch and black sesame seed ramen for dinner followed by a trip to the 100 yen Lawson in search of Yamazaki pan. well, fuck you digestive system, do your job. Pretty much gain 3-4 kilos every weekend, and pooh it out and sweat it out during the week.

It sounds like you're doing what's know as intermittent fasting. The theory being that want matters is your overall calorie deficit in a week so if you eat low cal on some days, you don't have to worry too much about it on others and you'll still lose weight. Google the 5/2 diet which is all the rage in the UK now. Anyway, intermittent fasting apparently works as long as you don't overdo it on the non fast days.

It makes more sense to eat on working days and fast in weekends, because you need the calories to concentrate on your work...

[Samurai_Jerk]

Decided to pretty much become some weird quasi-vegetarian from Monday morning to Friday night. Tofu, yogurt, fruit, and veggies, and I'm pretty much homicidal come Friday. Do the gym thing 4-5 times a week, and pretty much have gotten down to about 10% body fat. I was about 300% body fat when I was in my early 20s, so this is a definite improvement.
Weekends are spent eating everything and anything that gets within range. If that means tokushun oomori stamina don for lunch and black sesame seed ramen for dinner followed by a trip to the 100 yen Lawson in search of Yamazaki pan. well, fuck you digestive system, do your job. Pretty much gain 3-4 kilos every weekend, and pooh it out and sweat it out during the week.

It sounds like you're doing what's know as intermittent fasting. The theory being that want matters is your overall calorie deficit in a week so if you eat low cal on some days, you don't have to worry too much about it on others and you'll still lose weight. Google the 5/2 diet which is all the rage in the UK now. Anyway, intermittent fasting apparently works as long as you don't overdo it on the non fast days.

It makes more sense to eat on working days and fast in weekends, because you need the calories to concentrate on your work...

Not if you want to enjoy your weekends!

[Coligny]

I've always thought it was the size of the portions people eat here. Whenever I go back I can't believe how big the meals are at a typical American restaurant, I can't eat half usually.

Same for me but I might have a psychological bias.
At home I can nearly never finish a plate, also knowing that food penury even with the Germans walking the streets have never really been a problem.
While here I tend to lick the plate clean, with me Julie always saying that during the war there was nothing to eat...
(Also leading to situations where I was nearly called a criminal for throwing away vacuum packed ham because it was expired for only 20 days and therefore still perfectly fine...

[Kanchou]

I have to know, how the hell do you cut carbs in Japan without overloading on protein? There's hardly anything you can buy for in a decent amount for a reasonable price that will fill you up that isn't loaded in carbs, fat, or protein.

Green vegetables and non-soy beans would be about the only thing, but lettuce and cabbage cost a fortune, and they don't really sell beans in grocery stores here.

Corn, I guess? Canned corn is...almost reasonable.

Carrots and daikon too, I suppose. And spinach, when it's in season.

Mizuna, nira, and other greens are basically only good for nabe.

[Iraira]

Decided to pretty much become some weird quasi-vegetarian from Monday morning to Friday night. Tofu, yogurt, fruit, and veggies, and I'm pretty much homicidal come Friday. Do the gym thing 4-5 times a week, and pretty much have gotten down to about 10% body fat. I was about 300% body fat when I was in my early 20s, so this is a definite improvement.
Weekends are spent eating everything and anything that gets within range. If that means tokushun oomori stamina don for lunch and black sesame seed ramen for dinner followed by a trip to the 100 yen Lawson in search of Yamazaki pan. well, fuck you digestive system, do your job. Pretty much gain 3-4 kilos every weekend, and pooh it out and sweat it out during the week.

It sounds like you're doing what's know as intermittent fasting. The theory being that want matters is your overall calorie deficit in a week so if you eat low cal on some days, you don't have to worry too much about it on others and you'll still lose weight. Google the 5/2 diet which is all the rage in the UK now. Anyway, intermittent fasting apparently works as long as you don't overdo it on the non fast days.

It makes more sense to eat on working days and fast in weekends, because you need the calories to concentrate on your work...

Stuff I ate last weekend just started pouring out my nose. That was fuckin' hilarious.

[nikoneko]

(Also leading to situations where I was nearly called a criminal for throwing away vacuum packed ham because it was expired for only 20 days and therefore still perfectly fine...

Heh I get that too. "When I was in America I used to eat stuff sent from Japan that was expired forever and it was still fine."

[gaijinpunch]

I have to know, how the hell do you cut carbs in Japan without overloading on protein? There's hardly anything you can buy for in a decent amount for a reasonable price that will fill you up that isn't loaded in carbs, fat, or protein.

I'm not really into supplements, but a friend back home turned me on to Vega Sport. It's a nice line of vegan (no gluten, no soy, no dairy) powders and shit. I mainly use the energy gel when I do more than an hour of cardio, and some of the others for hydration. I usually wouldn't think so, but I can tell the difference (especially now that it's really humid out).

Look into their line and see if there's anything that would work for you. You can order off of iherb.com with flat shipping to Japan for $4 USD (up to 30 lbs -- yes, crazy).

Other than that, not sure. The balance is always the hard part. Try putting on protein w/o putting on tons of calories. There's only so much tofu and octopus you can eat in a week. However, I wouldn't worry about over-proteining unless you're not using your muscles at all. If you actually want to build muscle, the amount of protein you're supposed to be taking in is not humanly feasible on a Japanese diet (or paycheck).

Disclaimer: I don't eat meat other than fish.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I have to know, how the hell do you cut carbs in Japan without overloading on protein? There's hardly anything you can buy for in a decent amount for a reasonable price that will fill you up that isn't loaded in carbs, fat, or protein.

Green vegetables and non-soy beans would be about the only thing, but lettuce and cabbage cost a fortune, and they don't really sell beans in grocery stores here.

Corn, I guess? Canned corn is...almost reasonable.

Carrots and daikon too, I suppose. And spinach, when it's in season.

Mizuna, nira, and other greens are basically only good for nabe.

What the fuck are you talking about?

[Doctor Stop]

Why aren't Japanese people fat? Because they're Japanese! Read up on your Nihonjinron. It's all there in kanji and hiragana.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Read up on your Nihonjinron. It's all there in kanji and hiragana.

How's that going to help Coligny?

[Doctor Stop]

He can read it slowly. Or have Jerry Lewis read it out to him.

[matsuki]

I have to know, how the hell do you cut carbs in Japan without overloading on protein? There's hardly anything you can buy for in a decent amount for a reasonable price that will fill you up that isn't loaded in carbs, fat, or protein.

Green vegetables and non-soy beans would be about the only thing, but lettuce and cabbage cost a fortune, and they don't really sell beans in grocery stores here.

Corn, I guess? Canned corn is...almost reasonable.

Carrots and daikon too, I suppose. And spinach, when it's in season.

Mizuna, nira, and other greens are basically only good for nabe.

What the fuck are you talking about?

Yeah....corn is probably the worst thing you could be eating.