Environmentalists pursue Japan's whalers

[fireroads]

it is not an issue of the credibility or lack thereof of the japanese government. it is an issue of ignorant people believing and spreading a misnomer with absolutely no basis in fact.

the japanese GOVERNMENT included money for extra security for the whaling fleet as part of a big tohoku reconstruction and relief spending package. from that, the anti-whaling camp developed and spread the misnomer that charitable donations were funneled into the whaling industry.

if you believe/believed this misnomer, you need to seriously take more care in checking your facts and sources as there is probably a lot more total BS that you have bought into.

Horseshit.

Funds from the Tohoku reconstruction budget were diverted to the whaling expedition after the fact. It was a blatant misappropriation of funds, and no amount of twisted logic and posturing can make it anything else. It wasn't just whaling though. There were roadworks in Okinawa, a contact lens production facility somewhere in southern Japan, and several other places the money was spent that have nothing to do with rebuilding Tohoku. "Security for whaling" was one of them.

There are no "misnomers" anywhere. You can try to rewrite the facts as much as you like, but on this issue you are wrong.

these are two separate issues.

that using taxpayers money in the name of tohoku reconstruction in support of the whaling industry is a misappropriation of funds is an opinion that is perfectly legitimate.

being angry that charitable donations made by private citizens to NGOs were funneled into the whaling industry is ignorant as it is based on an misnomer.

[Yokohammer]

these are two separate issues.

that using taxpayers money in the name of tohoku reconstruction in support of the whaling industry is a misappropriation of funds is an opinion that is perfectly legitimate.

being angry that charitable donations made by private citizens to NGOs were funneled into the whaling industry is ignorant as it is based on an misnomer.

OK, fine. No private donations for Tohoku reconstruction were diverted to the whaling program. Most of us who have been following the issue closely are aware of that. But a large amount of taxpayer money ... from the pockets of private taxpayers ... was wrongly diverted to the whaling program.

I do want to make sure that you're not just splitting hairs here in order to divert attention from the real issue. You seem to be conflating the entire whaling debate with a small semantic quibble, and that is entirely the wrong platform on which to base a rational argument.

So, you're welcome to present your opinion, but please start by dropping the nits and picking up the core issue.

[fireroads]

these are two separate issues.

that using taxpayers money in the name of tohoku reconstruction in support of the whaling industry is a misappropriation of funds is an opinion that is perfectly legitimate.

being angry that charitable donations made by private citizens to NGOs were funneled into the whaling industry is ignorant as it is based on an misnomer.

OK, fine. No private donations for Tohoku reconstruction were diverted to the whaling program. Most of us who have been following the issue closely are aware of that. But a large amount of taxpayer money ... from the pockets of private taxpayers ... was wrongly diverted to the whaling program.

I do want to make sure that you're not just splitting hairs here in order to divert attention from the real issue. You seem to be conflating the entire whaling debate with a small semantic quibble, and that is entirely the wrong platform on which to base a rational argument.

So, you're welcome to present your opinion, but please start by dropping the nits and picking up the core issue.

two posters were perpetuating a very common misnomer. i feel it is important to point out misnomers where they appear in the interest of having intelligent discussion. i would rather not have had to spend this much time on this misnomer but posters here seem a bit thick.

based on this experience, i cant be bothered to try to reason or discuss the issue further here as i can see that having an intelligent discussion is not really plausible on this topic with this group.

[Samurai_Jerk]

these are two separate issues.

that using taxpayers money in the name of tohoku reconstruction in support of the whaling industry is a misappropriation of funds is an opinion that is perfectly legitimate.

being angry that charitable donations made by private citizens to NGOs were funneled into the whaling industry is ignorant as it is based on an misnomer.

OK, fine. No private donations for Tohoku reconstruction were diverted to the whaling program. Most of us who have been following the issue closely are aware of that. But a large amount of taxpayer money ... from the pockets of private taxpayers ... was wrongly diverted to the whaling program.

I do want to make sure that you're not just splitting hairs here in order to divert attention from the real issue. You seem to be conflating the entire whaling debate with a small semantic quibble, and that is entirely the wrong platform on which to base a rational argument.

So, you're welcome to present your opinion, but please start by dropping the nits and picking up the core issue.

two posters were perpetuating a very common misnomer. i feel it is important to point out misnomers where they appear in the interest of having intelligent discussion. i would rather not have had to spend this much time on this misnomer but posters here seem a bit thick.

based on this experience, i cant be bothered to try to reason or discuss the issue further here as i can see that having an intelligent discussion is not really plausible on this topic with this group.

You should look up the meaning of misnomer.

Anyway, if what you're saying is true, I agree that the difference is important and don't agree with Hammer that it's just an argument over niggling details. If people mistakenly believe that donations to private charities are being misused, it could have a negative effect on NGOs abilities to raise money and that's not a good thing.

[Yokohammer]

You should look up the meaning of misnomer.

Anyway, if what you're saying is true, I agree that the difference is important and don't agree with Hammer that it's just an argument over niggling details. If people mistakenly believe that donations to private charities are being misused, it could have a negative effect on NGOs abilities to raise money and that's not a good thing.

I wasn't arguing with that, SJ. What you are saying is true.
I was taking issue with the fact that he was bringing semantic nitpicking to the bigger issue, as in ...

it is not an issue of the credibility or lack thereof of the japanese government. it is an issue of ignorant people believing and spreading a misnomer with absolutely no basis in fact.

the japanese GOVERNMENT included money for extra security for the whaling fleet as part of a big tohoku reconstruction and relief spending package. from that, the anti-whaling camp developed and spread the misnomer that charitable donations were funneled into the whaling industry.

if you believe/believed this misnomer, you need to seriously take more care in checking your facts and sources as there is probably a lot more total BS that you have bought into.

This is a logical mishmash that, in addition to containing errors (i.e. the Japanese government did not "include money for extra security for the whaling fleet" in the Tohoku reconstruction budget), obfuscates the main issue.

If the main issue is the larger whaling debate, then throwing the difference between private donations and taxpayer funding into it and shaking it up is not going to lead to any type of clear discussion. Although what you said above is true, in the larger context it is a nit, IMHO.

[matsuki]

two posters were perpetuating a very common misnomer. i feel it is important to point out misnomers where they appear in the interest of having intelligent discussion. i would rather not have had to spend this much time on this misnomer but posters here seem a bit thick.

based on this experience, i cant be bothered to try to reason or discuss the issue further here as i can see that having an intelligent discussion is not really plausible on this topic with this group.

Being one of the posters you're referring to, I'll admit I don't see the info I previously read (retracted?) about the red cross of Japan having used donated funds to aid in whaling activity. I get what you, Yoko, and SJ are saying and agree that the difference is important. The J-gov is the culprit here here (not really surprising)

[fireroads]

You should look up the meaning of misnomer.

Anyway, if what you're saying is true, I agree that the difference is important and don't agree with Hammer that it's just an argument over niggling details. If people mistakenly believe that donations to private charities are being misused, it could have a negative effect on NGOs abilities to raise money and that's not a good thing.

I wasn't arguing with that, SJ. What you are saying is true.
I was taking issue with the fact that he was bringing semantic nitpicking to the bigger issue, as in ...

it is not an issue of the credibility or lack thereof of the japanese government. it is an issue of ignorant people believing and spreading a misnomer with absolutely no basis in fact.

the japanese GOVERNMENT included money for extra security for the whaling fleet as part of a big tohoku reconstruction and relief spending package. from that, the anti-whaling camp developed and spread the misnomer that charitable donations were funneled into the whaling industry.

if you believe/believed this misnomer, you need to seriously take more care in checking your facts and sources as there is probably a lot more total BS that you have bought into.

This is a logical mishmash that, in addition to containing errors (i.e. the Japanese government did not "include money for extra security for the whaling fleet" in the Tohoku reconstruction budget), obfuscates the main issue.

If the main issue is the larger whaling debate, then throwing the difference between private donations and taxpayer funding into it and shaking it up is not going to lead to any type of clear discussion. Although what you said above is true, in the larger context it is a nit, IMHO.

The Japanese government has affirmed that $29 million from its budget for post-earthquake and tsunami reconstruction is going toward extra security measures for the country's whaling fleet

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/12/08/world/asia/japan-whaling-funds

before we can get to the main issues, we need to boil some of the BS out of this thread, IMO!

SJ, thank you for correcting my misuse of the term 'misnomer'.

[Coligny]

Being one of the posters you're referring to, I'll admit I don't see the info I previously read (retracted?) about the red cross of Japan having used donated funds to aid in whaling activity. I get what you, Yoko, and SJ are saying and agree that the difference is important. The J-gov is the culprit here here (not really surprising)

Red Cross officially told that money given to them for Tohoku disaster was going to be used however(not sure aboot that word here) they saw fit no matter how distant to the intended donation purpose it was.

Now... No matter how evil the J Red Cross might be... I don't think they are hunting whales yet... More like just killing puppies same as Peta...

[Yokohammer]

You should look up the meaning of misnomer.

Anyway, if what you're saying is true, I agree that the difference is important and don't agree with Hammer that it's just an argument over niggling details. If people mistakenly believe that donations to private charities are being misused, it could have a negative effect on NGOs abilities to raise money and that's not a good thing.

I wasn't arguing with that, SJ. What you are saying is true.
I was taking issue with the fact that he was bringing semantic nitpicking to the bigger issue, as in ...

it is not an issue of the credibility or lack thereof of the japanese government. it is an issue of ignorant people believing and spreading a misnomer with absolutely no basis in fact.

the japanese GOVERNMENT included money for extra security for the whaling fleet as part of a big tohoku reconstruction and relief spending package. from that, the anti-whaling camp developed and spread the misnomer that charitable donations were funneled into the whaling industry.

if you believe/believed this misnomer, you need to seriously take more care in checking your facts and sources as there is probably a lot more total BS that you have bought into.

This is a logical mishmash that, in addition to containing errors (i.e. the Japanese government did not "include money for extra security for the whaling fleet" in the Tohoku reconstruction budget), obfuscates the main issue.

If the main issue is the larger whaling debate, then throwing the difference between private donations and taxpayer funding into it and shaking it up is not going to lead to any type of clear discussion. Although what you said above is true, in the larger context it is a nit, IMHO.

The Japanese government has affirmed that $29 million from its budget for post-earthquake and tsunami reconstruction is going toward extra security measures for the country's whaling fleet

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/12/08/world/asia/japan-whaling-funds

before we can get to the main issues, we need to boil some of the BS out of this thread, IMO!

SJ, thank you for correcting my misuse of the term 'misnomer'.

You seem to make a habit of twisting facts.

As I stated in my original response, the diversion of money to whaling and other misuses was done AFTER THE FACT! What this means is that the Government set up a Tohohoku recovery budget that, naturally, everyone would agree with ... because it was for Tohoku recovery, get it? ... and then AFTER the funds were secured the money was diverted to unrelated purposes. And no matter how you cut it, security for the whaling fleet is an unrelated purpose.

The bullshit, fireroads, is in your twisted logic.

[Mike Oxlong]

Japan's whaling ship gets halal certification

Japan’s whaling mothership has been awarded a halal certificate to prove the whales it takes from the Antarctic Ocean are slaughtered in accordance with Muslim law, a company spokesman said Wednesday.

The Nisshin Maru was certified last year before it headed off to the southern ocean for this season’s controversial hunt, a spokesman for ship owner Kyodo Senpaku, said.

“Special inspectors examined the ship when it was docked in Hiroshima last year,” he told AFP. “It was certified officially on November 24.”

The inspectors advised workers on the factory ship to change the disinfectant liquid used for cleaning hands to avoid any possible contamination from the alcohol solution, he said.

“If whale meat, which is by-product of the research whaling, can be consumed as a good protein source for Muslims in Japan, I think it is a good thing,” he said.

The company made the move after one of its business partners suggested whale meat be made halal to increase the choice of meat available to Japan’s Islamic community, he said. Muslims are barred by their religion from eating pork.

The government does not produce official figures on the number of adherents to minority religions in Japan, but the Japan Muslim Association told AFP there were around 100,000 Muslims in Japan—less than 0.08 percent of the population...

http://www.japantoday.com/category/nati ... tification

[IparryU]

So coming in late to the fight... WTF is the back and forth bitching about?

Public fact that money got pushed over to the whalers...

Japanese tsunami fund 'used for whaling programme'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16064002

Waves of anger: Japan tsunami victim aid spent on whalers, officials and fighter pilots
http://rt.com/news/japan-tsunami-relief-fund-697/

Japan says some tsunami reconstruction funds going to whaling
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/12/08/world ... ling-funds

You guys quit splitting hairs and start from scratch on this shit... I understand that fireroads is trying to make a point about what was said (and using words that he/she dont know), so stop the finger pointing at other users and state what is going on in your opinion with some citation.

[wagyl]

Japan's whaling ship gets halal certification

... can be consumed as a good protein source for Muslims in Japan...

http://www.japantoday.com/category/nati ... tification

But, but,... there are no (or very few) Muslims in Japan!!"

[Wage Slave]

A cunning ploy though. Spotted a gap in the market because The Perfect Word of God is silent on the topic of whalemeat as M had never seen or heard of a whale.

All they have left to do now is somehow convince the Muslims that the stuff tastes any good. From there - oil for whalemeat - what could be better?

[kurogane]

You guys quit splitting hairs and start from scratch on this shit... stop the finger pointing at other users and state what is going on in your opinion with some citation.

It seems to me that the whole disagreement is based on one rather egregiously circulated misnomer, namely, the very problem of what does and does not constitute a misnomer. Now, I don't wish to judge, but it is plainly a misnomer to label as a misnomer that which is not, strictly speaking and with considerable etymological certitude, a misnomer. One could of course argue, as I have above, that the use of misnomer was in fact a misnomer, thereby bringing us back to my assertion that the whole disagreement is itself based on the circulation of one misnomer, though perhaps not the misnomer that some who have helped to circulate that misnomer might think it is, which does bring up the potential of a permanent misnomer spiral.

At any rate, it all smells rather fishy, with just a whiff of internet scouring industry shill whose native language begins with J.................

[Coligny]

you didun't knew th3 prophet Muhamad was japadjinz, living in a gay union with japandjinz Jeebus and riding dinausorz to work as a Philipino caretaker for the elderly ?

[Coligny]

You guys quit splitting hairs and start from scratch on this shit... stop the finger pointing at other users and state what is going on in your opinion with some citation.

It seems to me that the whole disagreement is based on one rather egregiously circulated misnomer, namely, the very problem of what does and does not constitute a misnomer. Now, I don't wish to judge, but it is plainly a misnomer to label as a misnomer that which is not, strictly speaking and with considerable etymological certitude, a misnomer. One could of course argue, as I have above, that the use of misnomer was in fact a misnomer, thereby bringing us back to my assertion that the whole disagreement is itself based on the circulation of one misnomer, though perhaps not the misnomer that some who have helped to circulate that misnomer might think it is, which does bring up the potential of a permanent misnomer spiral.

At any rate, it all smells rather fishy, with just a whiff of internet scouring industry shill whose native language begins with J.................

Waiter... I'll take the same one as this guy's got... with ice...

(tell my kitteh I loved them)

[IparryU]

You guys quit splitting hairs and start from scratch on this shit... stop the finger pointing at other users and state what is going on in your opinion with some citation.

It seems to me that the whole disagreement is based on one rather egregiously circulated misnomer, namely, the very problem of what does and does not constitute a misnomer. Now, I don't wish to judge, but it is plainly a misnomer to label as a misnomer that which is not, strictly speaking and with considerable etymological certitude, a misnomer. One could of course argue, as I have above, that the use of misnomer was in fact a misnomer, thereby bringing us back to my assertion that the whole disagreement is itself based on the circulation of one misnomer, though perhaps not the misnomer that some who have helped to circulate that misnomer might think it is, which does bring up the potential of a permanent misnomer spiral.

At any rate, it all smells rather fishy, with just a whiff of internet scouring industry shill whose native language begins with J.................

Waiter... I'll take the same one as this guy's got... with ice...

(tell my kitteh I loved them)

ditto and oomori please!

[wagyl]

A cunning ploy though. Spotted a gap in the market because The Perfect Word of God is silent on the topic of whalemeat as M had never seen or heard of a whale.

Open to interpretation, if God so wills it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonah#Jonah_in_Islam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonah#Translation

[Russell]

Methinks those Sea Shepherd guys should feed some strong spirits and tonkatsu to them whales to break the Halal spell.

And the whales wouldn't probably mind either...

[Kanchou]

The thing that bothers me about "whale meat" sold in Japan is that most of it that is available is just fat and skin, and it's not especially that good. Then again, neither is the horse meat... especially liver sashimi. That shit isn't even edible.

[Wage Slave]

Oh I don't know. My local Co-Op stocks it and it looks like solid meat. It isn't terribly expensive - About 500 Yen for 250 grammes or so.

[Coligny]

The thing that bothers me about "whale meat" sold in Japan is that most of it that is available is just fat and skin, and it's not especially that good. Then again, neither is the horse meat... especially liver sashimi. That shit isn't even edible.

One of the best day of my life as a kitteh was when the horse meat butcher down the block retired...
One of the other was when they removed brain from the allowed parts to sell for human consumption...
Still waiting for the agriculture ministry to classify pizza as a vegetable though... I always wanted a pizza tree in my garden...

[Mike Oxlong]

Anti-whalers claim aggressive ramming by Japanese fleet

Militant anti-whaling campaigners Sea Shepherd on Sunday said one of their ships was rammed during “aggressive” and “unprovoked” confrontations with the Japanese in the Southern Ocean.

Sea Shepherd said one of its vessels, the Bob Barker, was struck during a coordinated attack by the Japanese fleet’s three harpoon ships as they attempt to drive the campaigners away from the factory ship Nisshin Maru.

“The Bob Barker was hit by the Japanese whaling fleet’s harpoon vessel, the Yushin Maru No. 2, as the harpoon vessel crossed in front of the bow of the Sea Shepherd ship,” the activist group said.

“The assault is an attempt to deter the Sea Shepherd ships from their current position, blocking the slipway of the Nisshin Maru, preventing the whalers from loading whales poached from the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary.”

The group has three ships out this season, the Bob Barker, Steve Irwin and Sam Simon.

Sea Shepherd said the Japanese had attempted to damage the fleet’s propellers with steel cables, had thrown projectiles including grappling hooks at the Steve Irwin and fired water cannon on the Bob Barker’s crew as they tried to cut the cables from a small boat.

Bob Barker captain Peter Hammarstedt said the Sea Shepherd vessels were “unprovokedly attacked” by the Japanese harpooners in a “ruthless” fashion.

“These harpoon ships came in heavy and hard. They hit my bow with about 300 metres of steel cable with the express intent of causing damage to my rudder and propellers,” he told the Australian Broadcasting Corporation.

“Thankfully because of a lot of evasive maneuvering I was able to avoid being entangled, but on one occasion one of the harpoon ships came so close that they ended up colliding with my vessel.”

Hammarstedt said nobody was injured “but certainly the whalers were more aggressive than we have ever seen them before and I think we’re quite lucky that nobody was hurt.”

Hammarstedt said the collision had left his anchor dangling “like a wrecking ball” but most of the damage was above the water line and would be able to be repaired at sea.

High-seas confrontations are common between Sea Shepherd and the Japanese, who hunt whales in Antarctica under a “scientific research” loophole in the moratorium on whaling.

In 2010 a collision resulted in the sinking of Sea Shepherd’s speedboat Ady Gil.

The anti-whaling group, carrying out their 10th annual harassment campaign of the Japanese fleet, said their actions had so far produced a “disastrous” season for the harpooners.

“Early interception and a persistent chase has enabled the Sea Shepherd Fleet to effectively suspend whaling operations and allowed the fleet to take up position and secure the slipway of the Nisshin Maru,” it said.

[Russell]

Just a matter of time before some serious injuries or deaths occur.

[kurogane]

Let's just hope it's only fat white charity class casualties. Dead Flippers are a tragedy, but dead Flipper-philes are a public service.

I dislike Beri Beri Machi this newfound Japanese ballsiness (in general), but if they'll harpoon some fat preachy white men, it's probably all for the better.

Still, if we must say it, let's just say I hope everyone gets home safe. Except the fat stupid white fucks.

[gaijinpunch]

I guess I was too stupid to figure out when it became cool hate on anti-poachers. I've always thought poachers deserved to get fucked since I was about 12. Maybe I watched too much Discovery channel. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but all the pile ons here seem a bit... uh... tacked on for lack of a better word. Surely there are people far more deserving of an accidental death.

On the other hand, Japanese everything thrives on loop holes. Anything to shut one down is music to my ears, no matter who does it. Maybe that makes me a pompous dick, but I have a stake in this cuntry, and more importantly so does my son. It's in both of our best interests for Japan to man the fuck up and be a member of the international community in a capacity other than the town bastard.

[matsuki]

The thing that bothers me about "whale meat" sold in Japan is that most of it that is available is just fat and skin, and it's not especially that good. Then again, neither is the horse meat... especially liver sashimi. That shit isn't even edible.

Ehhhh, I rather like the whale bacon and basashi they serve in izakaya here.

Just a matter of time before some serious injuries or deaths occur.

Asshole Japanese whalers, crazed hippies with money trying to stop the whaling with peace, love, and stink bombs ...call me what you want but I think we'd all be better off if they sink each other an don't float home.

[matsuki]

Oh...and this was on when I was in Amerikkkkka

http://katiecouric.com/videos/what-can- ... slaughter/

[legion]

I guess I was too stupid to figure out when it became cool hate on anti-poachers.

I don't know if it is cool but they are sanctimonious fuckheads with just a slight whiff of racism sneaking out.

It's a pissing contest between holier than though boys own adventurers and traditional whale meat researchers. Nobody in their right mind would trek off down to the frozen south to get a slice of bacon but tell them they can't and see what happens. If the bacon was swimming around closer to home they might take that option, but I think all that got harpooned a long time ago.

[GomiGirl]

I guess I was too stupid to figure out when it became cool hate on anti-poachers.

I don't know if it is cool but they are sanctimonious fuckheads with just a slight whiff of racism sneaking out.

It's a pissing contest between holier than though boys own adventurers and traditional whale meat researchers. Nobody in their right mind would trek off down to the frozen south to get a slice of bacon but tell them they can't and see what happens. If the bacon was swimming around closer to home they might take that option, but I think all that got harpooned a long time ago.

nail, head, hit you did.