Kei Cars, Speed limits, and Highway tolls oh my!

[matsuki]

So recent trip to Hakone, total ETC toll gates was 3....

1.) 1250Yen
2.) 350Yen
3.) 350Yen

1950Yen total (each way)

But.....being in a deathtrapKei car, the tolls came to:

1.) 750Yen
2.) 150Yen
3.) 150Yen

1050Yen total (each way)

That's a 46% discount....pretty fucking significant. Makes Kei cars seem like they reward you for risking your life in them.

So I ask around and hear the Kei cars/Motorcycle rates vary like mad so there is no general % discount...wtf? What's the deal?

I also hear that the speed limits for Kei cars/Motorcycles are 20km lower than than posted and the police enforce this like crazy. (definitely not in my case, that Kei-turd was flying) Is this true? My limited experience with Kei cars on the highways (and regular cars for that matter) are than I almost never see law enforcement.

[wagyl]

My understanding is that tolls are generally a 30% discount for keis and two wheelers compared to regular passenger cars, but yes, the different authorities discount at different rates. The story about speed limits might be something to do with a global speed limit of 80 Km/h for keis which was current until October 2000. It is now the same as for passenger cars, 100 Km/h. Kei speedsters are targetted no differently from any other speedsters. Don't forget the tax of 7200 Yen instead of about 40,000 Yen each year which you would pay for a 1600 cc passenger car, and even less for a commercial vehicle kei.

Google is a fantastic resource.

[matsuki]

My understanding is that tolls are generally a 30% discount for keis and two wheelers compared to regular passenger cars, but yes, the different authorities discount at different rates.

That's pretty good if you drive a lot....I wonder what kind of roll cage I can fit in a Kei van.....

The story about speed limits might be something to do with a global speed limit of 80 Km/h for keis which was current until October 2000. It is now the same as for passenger cars, 100 Km/h. Kei speedsters are targetted no differently from any other speedsters.

That is awesome to hear.

Don't forget the tax of 7200 Yen instead of about 40,000 Yen each year which you would pay for a 1600 cc passenger car, and even less for a commercial vehicle kei.

Hmmm, wonder if I can get a Kei registered to the temple as a commercial vehicle. My free van from work turned into a 9man van, and then it turned into a 9man van with shakken due next Jan. Boss is a lil erratic but the dealer was offering them 20man in trade in value for the van and they're selling for 40~60man on the auctions so worst case scenario is after a few months, I can trade it in/sell it and break even. (though likely turn a profit on it)

Google is a fantastic resource.

...indeed, but there is quite a bit of outdated info there as well (in regards to the fares in particular)...and I figured that someone that regularly drives a kei would know best regarding driving experience. (THANK YOU!)

[wagyl]

Hmmm, wonder if I can get a Kei registered to the temple as a commercial vehicle.

The determination as to whether a car is a commercial vehicle or a passenger vehicle is decided at manufacture. You can not change a passenger vehicle into a commercial vehicle, at least not without a fairly substantial rebuild involving cargo space in proportion to rear passenger space and quite possibly other factors, and it would require a relicensing. 580 numberplates are passenger cars, tax of 7200 yen a year, 480 numberplates are commercial vehicles, tax of 4000 yen a year. For kei vehicles, there is no difference in shaken cycles, both are every two years after the initial three year cycle.

[wagyl]

My understanding is that tolls are generally a 30% discount for keis and two wheelers compared to regular passenger cars, but yes, the different authorities discount at different rates.

That's pretty good if you drive a lot....I wonder what kind of roll cage I can fit in a Kei van.....

Closer examination suggests that my understanding was generous: maybe closer to 20% discount, but still substantial. Your extra discounts for Hakone my well have been the general ETC commuter time period discounts and so on.

[matsuki]

Hmmm, wonder if I can get a Kei registered to the temple as a commercial vehicle.

The determination as to whether a car is a commercial vehicle or a passenger vehicle is decided at manufacture. You can not change a passenger vehicle into a commercial vehicle, at least not without a fairly substantial rebuild involving cargo space in proportion to rear passenger space and quite possibly other factors, and it would require a relicensing. 580 numberplates are passenger cars, tax of 7200 yen a year, 480 numberplates are commercial vehicles, tax of 4000 yen a year. For kei vehicles, there is no difference in shaken cycles, both are every two years after the initial three year cycle.

Ahhh, in that case, not worth pursuing...

My understanding is that tolls are generally a 30% discount for keis and two wheelers compared to regular passenger cars, but yes, the different authorities discount at different rates.

That's pretty good if you drive a lot....I wonder what kind of roll cage I can fit in a Kei van.....

Closer examination suggests that my understanding was generous: maybe closer to 20% discount, but still substantial. Your extra discounts for Hakone my well have been the general ETC commuter time period discounts and so on.

I don't think the system is based on percentages though. The way it came up, it said 350yen toll but then -200yen discount for Kei cars/bikes. That's a 57% discount at that stretch but then the longer stretch was 1250yen with a 500yen kei car discount. I tried using the toll calculators online and couldn't get the same results though so still a lil confused about what other factors there are.

[Coligny]

Hmmm, wonder if I can get a Kei registered to the temple as a commercial vehicle.

The determination as to whether a car is a commercial vehicle or a passenger vehicle is decided at manufacture. You can not change a passenger vehicle into a commercial vehicle, at least not without a fairly substantial rebuild involving cargo space in proportion to rear passenger space and quite possibly other factors, and it would require a relicensing. 580 numberplates are passenger cars, tax of 7200 yen a year, 480 numberplates are commercial vehicles, tax of 4000 yen a year. For kei vehicles, there is no difference in shaken cycles, both are every two years after the initial three year cycle.

Ahhh, in that case, not worth pursuing...
s

So you meant re-register a previously passenger kei as a commercial kei ?

BTW, the Daihatsu Copen had rollcage as factory fit option...

[wagyl]

If you are going to become a regular expressway user it pays to learn the discount conditions. Even I, a dedicated shitamichi user, have the basics stored away and I always refresh my knowledge from the posters outside the Parking Area toilets. Lately, the Concierge Desks at the Parking Areas are pretty open about telling you how to save tolls too.
I get this, which probably matches your travel pretty closely, and comes to the amount you paid.

For comparison, a futsujidosha, same day and time conditions, is this, 1300 Yen after ETC discounts.

[matsuki]

So you meant re-register a previously passenger kei as a commercial kei ?

BTW, the Daihatsu Copen had rollcage as factory fit option...

Yeah, I thought that just meant it had to be registered to a business based on what I heard before.

Copen rollcage isn't going to save anyone over 5'2"

If you are going to become a regular expressway user it pays to learn the discount conditions. Even I, a dedicated shitamichi user, have the basics stored away and I always refresh my knowledge from the posters outside the Parking Area toilets. Lately, the Concierge Desks at the Parking Areas are pretty open about telling you how to save tolls too.
I get this, which probably matches your travel pretty closely, and comes to the amount you paid.

For comparison, a futsujidosha, same day and time conditions, is this, 1300 Yen after ETC discounts.

Ahhh, so the kei discounts aren't as much as it seemed, it was mostly ETC discounts. Bit of a boner kill but good to know.

[wagyl]

Copen rollcage isn't going to save anyone over 5'2"

Perfect for you then.








<<Runs from the angry Ice Hockey player>>

[Russell]

I traveled by futsuusha from Kansai to Tokyo. On a working day I paid 11,000 + a few hundred Yen, and driving back on a Saturday I paid 6,000 + a few hundred Yen.

Quite a shocking difference.

Seems if you pass an ETC gate before 6:00 AM, you also get a discount.

[wagyl]

You think getting on the expressway before 6 am is good, you wait until you get on before 4 am (or keep on until after midnight)! Party time!!!

In fact, it can be a bit of a party at the first (or last) parking area, with people taking a break to compensate for driving during thrifty hours.

[Coligny]

Not the standard rollover protection. The factory fit overhead rollcage which look like this one.

image.jpg

Plus, when i tried it, the copen was a surprisingly comfortable car for tall people... Was much roomier tham the A4(B5) back then...

[matsuki]

Copen rollcage isn't going to save anyone over 5'2"

Perfect for you then.

<<Runs from the angry Ice Hockey player>>

You think getting on the expressway before 6 am is good, you wait until you get on before 4 am (or keep on until after midnight)! Party time!!!

In fact, it can be a bit of a party at the first (or last) parking area, with people taking a break to compensate for driving during thrifty hours.

[matsuki]

Not the standard rollover protection. The factory fit overhead rollcage which look like this one.

image.jpg

Plus, when i tried it, the copen was a surprisingly comfortable car for tall people... Was much roomier tham the A4(B5) back then...

Yeah, they're pretty neat lil cars....for FF

[legion]

The shuto ko is taking the piss now : 900 yen if you pay cash、but graded according to distance from 500 - 900 yen if you have ETC

So basically you pay up to 900 yen to sit in a traffic jam without traffic lights if you pay cash, and pay more the longer you sit in a traffic jam if you have ETC.

The expressways should be free, it is a ridiculous burden on the transport industry and general public to keep bank rolling the amukudari retirement plan. We already pay a huge tax on every liter of petrol we buy, taxing the jammed up expressways on top of that is a scam. That tunnel collapse on the Chuo showed exactly how much of that money is being spent on maintenance.

[Russell]

You think getting on the expressway before 6 am is good, you wait until you get on before 4 am (or keep on until after midnight)! Party time!!!

In fact, it can be a bit of a party at the first (or last) parking area, with people taking a break to compensate for driving during thrifty hours.

OK, that is becoming interesting.

How much will I save by getting on the highway before 4:00 AM?

[wagyl]

How much will I save by getting on the highway before 4:00 AM?

You are in the world of half price, over the full journey, any day of the week. This is compared to the 30% discount for after 8 pm or before 6 am. Be prepared to rub shoulders with granddad and the boys heading off for a round of golf using cheap expressways.

[Russell]

How much will I save by getting on the highway before 4:00 AM?

You are in the world of half price, over the full journey, any day of the week. This is compared to the 30% discount for after 8 pm or before 6 am. Be prepared to rub shoulders with granddad and the boys heading off for a round of golf using cheap expressways.

Thanks for this info.

I couldn't find it on the web page of Nexco.

[matsuki]

The expressways should be free, it is a ridiculous burden on the transport industry and general public to keep bank rolling the amukudari retirement plan. We already pay a huge tax on every liter of petrol we buy, taxing the jammed up expressways on top of that is a scam. That tunnel collapse on the Chuo showed exactly how much of that money is being spent on maintenance.

THIS

How much will I save by getting on the highway before 4:00 AM?

You are in the world of half price, over the full journey, any day of the week. This is compared to the 30% discount for after 8 pm or before 6 am. Be prepared to rub shoulders with granddad and the boys heading off for a round of golf using cheap expressways.

Thanks for this info.

I couldn't find it on the web page of Nexco.

Hmmm, so basically, if you can plan leaving for your long distance trips before 4am, you're golden. (less traffic, fees, and cooler air is a recipe for awesome)

[Russell]

The expressways should be free, it is a ridiculous burden on the transport industry and general public to keep bank rolling the amukudari retirement plan. We already pay a huge tax on every liter of petrol we buy, taxing the jammed up expressways on top of that is a scam. That tunnel collapse on the Chuo showed exactly how much of that money is being spent on maintenance.

THIS

You ain't seen the car and gasoline tax in the Netherlands yet (hardly any toll fees there though).

How much will I save by getting on the highway before 4:00 AM?

You are in the world of half price, over the full journey, any day of the week. This is compared to the 30% discount for after 8 pm or before 6 am. Be prepared to rub shoulders with granddad and the boys heading off for a round of golf using cheap expressways.

Thanks for this info.

I couldn't find it on the web page of Nexco.

Hmmm, so basically, if you can plan leaving for your long distance trips before 4am, you're golden. (less traffic, fees, and cooler air is a recipe for awesome)

Yeah, all true, but try to get a family with kids moving before 4am (I did not even manage 6am).

[wagyl]

Grandpa can round up his golf mates, you can do it too. The rush to get on the expressway before the chime of 4 am can be pretty comical too.

[matsuki]

Hmmm, so basically, if you can plan leaving for your long distance trips before 4am, you're golden. (less traffic, fees, and cooler air is a recipe for awesome)

Yeah, all true, but try to get a family with kids moving before 4am (I did not even manage 6am).

I've got something that may help...

[Russell]

Choko, what is that?!?

[wagyl]

The hint can be found in the file name which Mr Hotlinker links to: "http://pursuitist.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Luxury-Tequila-Brands-Celebrate-Gastronomic-Virtues.jpg" I don't know how much good it will do getting the kids up and ready for an early start though.

[Mike Oxlong]

My kid could drink Choko's under the table!

[Coligny]

My mom could drink Choko under the table... Everyday, right before breakfast...

[yanpa]

My cat could drink Choko under the table any time of day or night, and she's been dead for 7 years.

[wuchan]

The shuto ko is taking the piss now : 900 yen if you pay cash、but graded according to distance from 500 - 900 yen if you have ETC

So basically you pay up to 900 yen to sit in a traffic jam without traffic lights if you pay cash, and pay more the longer you sit in a traffic jam if you have ETC.

The expressways should be free, it is a ridiculous burden on the transport industry and general public to keep bank rolling the amukudari retirement plan. We already pay a huge tax on every liter of petrol we buy, taxing the jammed up expressways on top of that is a scam. That tunnel collapse on the Chuo showed exactly how much of that money is being spent on maintenance.

you must be doing Japan wrong.....


I don't know one single person making below 10M円 a year that pays more than 10% income tax including city/ward. Back home in the US you are lucky to deduct your way down to 15%.


On my recent trip home I was surprised at the shitty condition of the free highways, yet the toll roads were all well maintained.

Yes J-highways are overpriced. No, they should not be 100% free. Here I cruse at 145-155kph and have no problems with the surface (or cameras because they don't move) but back home 130 is fucking freaky due to the shitty asphalt and bad care. Also the US doesn't have tunnels to care for. Most highways just go around. Here there is no option.



What ever happened to those maximum limits?

[Coligny]

What ever happened to those maximum limits?

Buy a Nissan...

Just reaching them become a goal on its own...