No Wireless Games On Planes

[Mulboyne]

Kyodo via Japan Today: Revised law prohibits plane passengers from playing wireless games
Passengers on commercial planes are no longer allowed to play games using wireless connection with handheld consoles, such as Nintendo Co's blockbuster DS machine, at any time while on board, as a revised aviation law to that effect came into effect Monday. The measure was implemented as the electromagnetic waves generated by the wireless communications could disturb aircraft devices, according to officials of the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport. Passengers are allowed to play other games that use no wireless communication functions aboard planes, except during takeoff and landing. The amended law also prohibits passengers from using such wireless devices as computer mouse and headphones at all times while on board, while battery chargers and toys that respond to sounds are banned during takeoff and landing.

[Tsuru]

Use of electronics on board aircraft may be likened to recreational drugs use. Until the government and/or proprietors find a way of making money out of it they are fucking BANNED no matter what.

The truth is that they don't interfere at all with modern digital avionics... normal EM from electronic devices, bluetooth, WiFi... they were all tested about a year ago and none of them had any effect, if I have more time I'll find you the report.
The airlines want to find a way to make money out of it first... just look at what's happening with mobile phones on planes. In the very near future it will be possible to sit next to the same cunt who can't shut the fuck up as on the subways as she is now also allowed to use her keitai in the air, as long as she uses the $5 a minute on board tranceiver.

[Mike Oxlong]

FAA to allow use of electronic devices during 'all phases' of flight

Passengers on US flights will be allowed to use electronic devices during take-off and landing following a ruling by the Federal Aviation Administration on Thursday.

The announcement means people will be able to use ebooks, tablets and portable video games "during all phases of flight", the FAA said. Passengers will be able to keep mobile phones switched on, although they must be set to "airplane mode" or otherwise have cellular service disabled.

Minutes after the announcement, Delta Air Lines announced that it would allow its passengers to use portable electronic devices from 1 November, subject to FAA approval...

[wagyl]

Yes well it was fairly obvious that the electronic devices had no influence, including if they are sending radio signals. Or at the very least, less influence than 101 ml of toothpaste or 101 ml of water, because there is no way they let those quantities on the plane, they will check your hand luggage to make sure. The electronic devices pass through the security check in plain sight.

[Tsuru]

Tell people there is an invisible man in the sky that sees everything you do and needs money, and most people will believe you. Ask people to unstick themselves from their symbiotic electronic companions for five minutes and see what happens.

The ban on electronics during landing and RF emitters during the whole flight comes from a time when avionics used analog signals and you actually could send a plane off course using a remote-controlled toy. These days, everything is digital and it only really matters for the AM VHF radio communications and navigation aircraft still use, but the fact of the matter is almost all mobile phones people use have moved away from the original frequency band and on to much higher frequencies to allow for data packets to be transferred more quickly.

But wait... didn't I explain this already once before?

[wagyl]

Physics might have changed in 6 years. LOL

[Coligny]

If electronic toyz wuz dangerous some A-rabs would have used a tickle me elmo or worse a furby to take some plane down.

Now if bubba could pay attention to his surroundings when the plane do dangerous shits (like landing and taking off) that would be awesome.

Also, I'm not sure VOR, NDB and most ILS are all digital. But like switching highway signs... Spoofing or jamming them except in super shitty weather or other emergencies would not go unnoticed... Well except for Korean pilots... But you can easily spot them since their planes still have training wheels...

[Tsuru]

Did I say that? VOR and ILS are VHF nav systems, NDB is HF nav.

I clearly remember reading about a DC-10 that drifted off course a few degrees during the 1970s, and an investigation yielded that some kid's remote control car was to blame, with reproduceable results to boot. During that time, the steering signals used by the autopilot and nav systems were DC and AC analog. These steering signals and other comms protocols are now all use digital signalling.

But what do I know, I only work with this stuff every day....

[Coligny]

Just talking aboot VOR radio protocol at -sort of- equivalent of osi layer 2.
The VOR blip....blurb... Was totally analog and I was doubting there was any update on this...
Have to reread on this since like for bicycle you always remember how to use it, but the magic behind is quickly forgotten...

[Tsuru]

I was talking about the communications protocols between the various bits and pieces of electrickery that make the plane work, that are defined by ARINC standards.

[Coligny]

I was talking about the communications protocols between the various bits and pieces of electrickery that make the plane work, that are defined by ARINC standards.

Yea, messa wussa talking of spoof between the vor station and the plane. Not between the plane receiver and the rest of the avionics. Sensors with analog outputs are recipe for disasters from day 1...

[Russell]

But, but, I have been told by reliable sources as recently as 2006 that it is dangerous to have electronic devices switched on during flight.

Have I been lied to?!?

[Coligny]

It's a bit funny... All those talks seems to consider there is nobody in the cockpit able to do some work...
While GPS landing systems or even ILS are nice to have, landing a plane with just VASI/PAPI is not exactly rocket science, not matter the size of the bird...
Looking at those korean idiots that crash on the beach if the glideslope tell them to do so, they might have a point. But if your plane instrument are so cheaply made that an iPhone can fuck them up, maybe having someone who can fly sticks on board could help...

If you can't keep a heading without GPS, between budget cuts and vulnerability to solar flares, you might be soon outta job...

[Tsuru]

First off, you still have to have your phone in airplane mode. That's what the article says.

Coligny: instead of firing off another factual response that will probably sail right over your head I will just say that in terms of your understanding of these matters you are probably firmly in the camp of the chemtrail people, and you would be wise to just do as you're told and leave these things to the professionals Stop pretending you know shit, it's toe-curlingly embarrasing sometimes how far you are off the mark. Use your vast supply of spare time to pick up a book (not written by Tom Clancy) or read an NTSB report or something.

[wagyl]

...or just enjoy being in Vietnam with your family.....

[Coligny]

Geez, that escalated quickly...

Sorry for pointing out that human can still fly those things...

[Mock Cockpit]

Tangentially to the conversation, Tsuru I'm sure you know about this. After the Guam and Stansted crashes Korean Air bought in Delta to completely overhaul its operations. They compiled a huge list of where Korean Air had deviated from best practice. You can download the internal audit here http://www.flight.org/blog/2009/10/01/k ... to-happen/
Very interesting reading. From all reports Korean Air is now top drawer in all of its operations. Believe a similar thing is happening at Garuda after the EU banned them. Seems like Asiana could do with some remedial work after San Francisco though.
Anyway, a sensible decision by the FAA. A number of times when I've flown I've forgotten to put my phone into airplane mode. I'm not particularly forgetful so I guess on every single flight there are people with their phones on so if there was an issue I'd imagine we'd know about it by now. Keeping them in airplane mode is I imagine more of a courtesy issue than anything else.

[Coligny]

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[Tsuru]

Tangentially to the conversation, Tsuru I'm sure you know about this. After the Guam and Stansted crashes Korean Air bought in Delta to completely overhaul its operations. They compiled a huge list of where Korean Air had deviated from best practice. You can download the internal audit here http://www.flight.org/blog/2009/10/01/k ... to-happen/
Very interesting reading. From all reports Korean Air is now top drawer in all of its operations. Believe a similar thing is happening at Garuda after the EU banned them. Seems like Asiana could do with some remedial work after San Francisco though.
Anyway, a sensible decision by the FAA. A number of times when I've flown I've forgotten to put my phone into airplane mode. I'm not particularly forgetful so I guess on every single flight there are people with their phones on so if there was an issue I'd imagine we'd know about it by now. Keeping them in airplane mode is I imagine more of a courtesy issue than anything else.

Indeed they were... although it was more a question of being forced to by ICAO after Korean were banned from further expanding their global network until they got their shit sorted out. By far and away the biggest challenge commercial aviation faces these days is the degradation of piloting skills, as evidenced by THY1951, AFR447 and now AAR214. Or to put it in other words: pilots have become so reliant on their very sophisticated autopilot/-throttle/-land systems they are literally forgetting how to properly fly their aircraft. Even if they and their company comply with every rule in the book, pilots on long-haul fleets don't get enough time in manual control of their aircraft. So when that day comes that the computers can't figure it out anymore, they cannot be trusted to safely continue and conclude the flight.

The only thing that was wrong when the Asiana 777 crashed on an otherwise perfect day with clear blue skies, was that the glideslope was out of order due to construction on the 28L/R runways so an autoland couldn't be performed and a *gasp* manual approach had to be made. There were three pilots with over 10000 hours on the type put together in the flightdeck that day, including a senior training captain, and none of them realised that the aircraft was almost stalling because they left the autothrottle system engaged in an inappropriate mode. None of them was watching what the autothrottle was (not) doing, and none of them was watching how fast they were going, probably concentrating like mad to keep the runway in the same spot in the window until the stick shakers went off. No-one had the presence of mind that day to press the disco buttons under both their thumbs to turn all the automatics off when the speed decayed, grab the jet by the scruff of the neck, do what they are paid the big bucks to do and FLY IT. I don't say it lightly, but they killed three people because they just sat there.

Do you know what the FAA decreed after another 777 from Asia (EVA) nearly did the same thing about a week after? They banned all foreign carriers from performing visual approaches at SFO and forced them to land on other runways instead.

[Coligny]

Refresher:
Asiana 214 B777

[Russell]

Japan to Allow All-Time Use of Electronic Devices during Flights

Japan will ease restrictions on the use of electronic devices such as smartphones on aircraft next month, the transport ministry said Thursday.

From Sept. 1, passengers will be allowed to use smartphones and personal computers at all times during flights, if they kill those devices' communications functions except data transmission, for which Wi-Fi wireless connection will be available.

Currently, Japan bans the devices' use during takeoff and landing for fears of radio waves emitted by them disrupting pilot communications and causing meter gauge malfunctions.

But given that aviation authorities in Europe and the United States relaxed rules on the use of electronic devices last year thanks to improvements in aircraft performance, the ministry has decided to follow suit.

The ministry also said passengers will be allowed to make calls with their mobile phones sooner than now after landing.

More

Right.

...thanks to improvements in aircraft performance...

Some of those aircraft may be aged, and still they will abolish those rules. Sounds like this relaxation is long overdue.

[wagyl]

My understanding is that the real reason they don't want you using electronic devices during take-off, landing and taxiing is so that they have the passenger's full and undivided attention in the event of an accident/evacuation. It is easier to get everyone off the plane in a hurry if they aren't swiping their screens, much like the smartphone walking issue.

[yanpa]

#planecrash #emergencyevacuation #selfiewithburningplane

[Coligny]

#RateMyPoopMileHighClubEdition