Henry S Stokes flipflops on the 'Nanking Misunderstanding'

[Taro Toporific]

---'Shock' from Kyodo report a result of misunderstanding, translator says---
Journalist now stands by Nanjing book
The Japan Times -- May 12, 2014
Former New York Times Tokyo bureau chief Henry S. Stokes is standing by a claim made in his new book that the Nanjing Massacre never took place, describing the event as a “propaganda tool of the KMT government.”
Kyodo News reported Thursday that Stokes’ book, titled “Eikokujin Kisha ga Mita Rengokoku Sensho Shikan no Kyomo (“Falsehoods of the Allied Nations’ Victorious View of History, as Seen by a British Journalist”), contained “rogue passages” that didn’t reflect the author’s view of the event.
The news agency accused translator Hiroyuki Fujita of adding lines to “fabricate” Stokes’ denial of Japan’s wartime responsibility for the 1937 Nanjing Massacre.
Stokes, who suffers from Parkinson’s disease, released a statement Friday through the book’s publisher Shodensha, blasting the news report as “wrong” and “far from the truth.”
“The so-called ‘Nanking Massacre’ never took place,” Stokes said in the statement. “The word ‘massacre’ is not right to indicate what happened. It was originally a propaganda tool of the KMT government,” he said, referring to the Kuomintang.
Kyodo News in turn released a statement dated Friday, saying it was “confident in the accuracy of the article,” which it said “drew on its interview with the former Tokyo bureau chief.” The agency also said the interview was taped.
In an interview with The Japan Times on Monday, Fujita dismissed the Kyodo report as “simply wrong,” saying the entire story was based on “Henry’s misunderstanding about what was written in Japanese in his book."...
...The paragraphs in question translate as: “From this, it is clear that the so-called ‘Nanking Massacre’ did not take place. As a historical fact, the ‘Nanking Massacre’ did not take place. It was a propaganda fabricated by the KMT government.” When presented with this translation, Henry said it poses no significant difference from his own idea, Fujita said.
More...

stokes-mishima.jpg

Mishima's bottom, Henry Senile Stokes

[Wage Slave]

Sounds to me like he needs the money and there's always easy money to be made telling these people what they want to hear. So, what exactly is he saying? A lot of people died but not enough and not in circumstances that justify the term massacre? Something happened but it wasn't a massacre.

That rather does beg the question of what it should be called then. And further, what legitimate business did the Imperial Japanese Army have in Nanjing at the time?

And what about the mass rape bit? Did that happen or not?

[matsuki]

And what about the mass rape bit? Did that happen or not?

You mean the great Nanking orgy?

[Taro Toporific]

Sounds to me like he needs the money and there's always easy money to be made telling these people what they want to hear.

Henry S. Stokes is a real piece of work.
FG member <redacted>, worked with Stokes and wrote a screenplay about Stokes' telling people what they want to hear.

THE MISHIMA INCIDENT tells the story of the events leading up to Mishima’s suicide through Mishima’s relationship with HENRY SCOTT STOKES (28), an upper middle-class foreign correspondent for the London Times. Henry arrives in Japan in 1967... is suddenly promoted to Bureau Chief a...
... Despairing at the lack of news in Japan, Henry agrees to [go] to one of Mishima’s speeches, where he is enthralled by Mishima, an eccentric nationalist bisexual whose work expounds romantic visions of death and suicide. Henry forms a co-dependent relationship with Mishima...
... as [Stokes'] relationship with Mishima deepens he loses his reporter's detachment and starts to espouse Mishima’s ideas, alienating [his wife] Charly, [best-friend] Peter, his superiors and colleagues and the UK ambassador.
Continues...

main1318102686._SX304_SY171_.jpg

[Coligny]

An early CJ/MQT ?

[Russell]

I saw this news before, but decided not to post it here.

Why?

There are also people denying the Holocaust, but they are usually ignored in normal countries.

I must admit that Taro's digging up the Mishima connection is quite intriguing.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Henry Scott-Stokes is a decrepit, doddering old fool. His link with Mishima goes back well before Sparky (he, he, he...where's Terry?).
He was peddling his wares around everywhere a few years ago, but nobody would pay him because his writing was too sloppy. I remember him joining the likes of Bill Hershey, Corky and the Good Ol' Boys in their hokey take on life in the Big Mikan (in between jaunts at the Lex) while writing for the Reekender.
HSS's greatest achievement has probably been siring Harry Whateverhisnameis, the wanker in the waistcoat on the telly.

[Coligny]

I saw this news before, but decided not to post it here.

Why?

There are also people denying the Holocaust, but they are usually ignored arrested.
.

But I think we totally jumed the shark on this one, If we make it illegal to be an idiot, the law need to cover all idiots, not just one kind. Especially with the level of abuse and censorship it's starting to trigger...

[Samurai_Jerk]

Japan hits out as UNESCO archives Nanjing massacre documents

Japan on Saturday lashed out at UNESCO's decision to inscribe documents related to the Nanjing massacre in its Memory of the World register, describing it as "extremely regrettable" and calling for the process to be reformed.

On Friday the UN's cultural and scientific body agreed to 47 new inscriptions, including a request by Beijing to mark documents recording the mass murder and rape committed by Japanese troops after the fall of the Chinese city of Nanjing in 1937.

The massacre, often referred to as the "Rape of Nanjing", is an exceptionally sensitive issue in the often-tense relations between Japan and China, with Beijing charging that Tokyo has failed to atone for the atrocity.

Japan had called for the Nanjing documents not to be included and accused UNESCO Saturday of being politicised.

"It is extremely regrettable that a global organisation that should be neutral and fair entered the documents in the Memory of the World register, despite the repeated pleas made by the Japanese government," Tokyo's foreign ministry said in a statement.

"As a responsible member of UNESCO, the Japanese government will seek a reform of this important project, so that it will not be used politically," the statement added.

[Takechanpoo]

i personally approve of this decision.

there are several opinions about the victim number of nanjin incident.
in japan side, someone insists 100,000, another a few ten thousand, another its just several thousand...
the ones who insist masscre itself in nanjin did not happen are not taken seriously even among japan side.
but at least the victim number of 300,000, which china side has insisted, carved it on a huge stone monument
and politically fabricated as an accomplished fact(as always ), has NO evidences to show it.

but... but in my personal opinion, either way its a "slight" difference and "pretty" number, regardless of whether 300000, 100000 or 10000 or less, compared with the other super great genocides around the era all over the world.
so its totally no problem japan recognize 300.000 killings. its a political loss cut. yea

furthermore i seriously think empire japan should had killed more(2 or 3 millions) only in nanjin.
but unfortunately empire japan was imcomplete in everything. they were not as thorough or ruthless as nazi german.
its the reason historic issues between japan and china have been unsolved untill now.

[wuchan]

"It is extremely regrettable that a global organisation that should be neutral and fair entered the documents in the Memory of the World register, despite the repeated pleas made by the Japanese government," Tokyo's foreign ministry said in a statement.

"we is special?"

[Yokohammer]

"It is extremely regrettable that a global organisation that should be neutral and fair entered the documents in the Memory of the World register, despite the repeated pleas made by the Japanese government," Tokyo's foreign ministry said in a statement.

"we is special?"

"Precious" is the word you're looking for, methinks. Might just be a translation thing, but that little bit of phraseology grabbed my attention as well.


~ Tapatalking ~

[JAVGOD]

Propaganda by the victors. Why? That's unheard of.

[legion]

Recent news story about the Nazi Stormtroopers being off their faces on speed while they destroyed Europe. I think something similar happened in China.

[Wage Slave]

There was lots of it about in Japan - Wasn't amphetamine sulfate a Japanese invention/discovery? The US military used it fairly heavily in Vietnam too I seem to remember reading. Anyway yes - very possible. It features quite a lot in The Long Road to the Deep North and I got the impression the author had conducted extensive interviews here in Japan before writing it all up.

[JAVGOD]

Still, its odd to me the Chinese always refuse the Japanese request to investigate the incident together. It would be the sensible thing but not politically advantageous to the Chinese in any way. Speed or not I don't think the Japanese could accomplish the claimed numbers using small arms as is stated.

A similar case is the Jewish holocaust. The numbers there are sacrosanct to the point it is a crime in Germany to investigate or question them.

It would be nice to discover the actual truth but I don't see that happening in our lifetimes. It's like the Mickey Rooney and Elizabeth Taylor sexual affair when she was 14 and he was mid 20's. Have to wait til everybody dies.

[matsuki]

It would be the sensible thing

Has China ever done the sensible thing?

[Wage Slave]

I don't think the Japanese could accomplish the claimed numbers using small arms as is stated.

Do you have any evidence or calculations to back this opinion up? There were 50,000 battle Japanese troops in Nanking - Killing up to 6 people each with rifles, bayonets, swords and knives over the six weeks is easily possible.

A similar case is the Jewish holocaust. The numbers there are sacrosanct to the point it is a crime in Germany to investigate or question them.

I'm not sure it is similiar at all. Germany was embarked on an official and organised policy of genocide. Detailed records were kept and they were relatively unable to destroy them or the physical evidence. eg Auschwitz.

In the case of Nanking few records were kept and there was plenty of time to destroy evidence before the court cases could happen.

All criminals always destroy evidence and then challenge their guilt on the grounds there is no evidence.

It would be nice to discover the actual truth but I don't see that happening in our lifetimes. It's like the Mickey Rooney and Elizabeth Taylor sexual affair when she was 14 and he was mid 20's. Have to wait til everybody dies.

I can't think of a less appropriate or less accurate analogy. It's a completely different offence and it this case once everyone dies we will have even less chance of getting at the truth than we have now.

[legion]

I'm not sure it is similiar at all. Germany was embarked on an official and organised policy of genocide. Detailed records were kept and they were relatively unable to destroy them or the physical evidence. eg Auschwitz.

There are no records of direct orders for mass killing.

I think it was a situation that spiraled out of control as the war turned against Germany.

If you are a Brit of a certain age you may remember this TV show

Strange to think the creator was one of the first allied troops to enter Bergen-Belsen.

[Wage Slave]

I'm not sure it is similiar at all. Germany was embarked on an official and organised policy of genocide. Detailed records were kept and they were relatively unable to destroy them or the physical evidence. eg Auschwitz.

There are no records of direct orders for mass killing.

I think it was a situation that spiraled out of control as the war turned against Germany.

If you are a Brit of a certain age you may remember this TV show

Strange to think the creator was one of the first allied troops to enter Bergen-Belsen.

Is that so? All those camps and all those transportations and all those deaths weren't planned, budgeted for, enabled and ordered by head office? Are you sure? Do you have any references for that cos it really is news to me.

Never seen Potty Time before. I might have been in Pakistan or somewhere like that at the time.

[legion]

The orders for the Final Solution never explicitly stated a program of mass killing.

I think this series is the closest you will get to the truth.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x13pwg5_the-world-at-war-ep-1-a-new-germany-1933-1939_shortfilms

Interviews with people who were at the center of it all, Hitler's personal body guard, one of his secretaries, regular soldiers.

[Wage Slave]

The orders for the Final Solution never explicitly stated a program of mass killing.

I think this series is the closest you will get to the truth.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x13pwg5_the-world-at-war-ep-1-a-new-germany-1933-1939_shortfilms

Interviews with people who were at the center of it all, Hitler's personal body guard, one of his secretaries, regular soldiers.

I see. On a narrow technical basis you may be right. Deniability is a very useful concept when you are doing things you shouldn't be.Still, I find it very hard to believe that people didn't know what was going on even if they predictably claimed later they didn't. And area and local commanders certainly knew what was happening at massive and permanent complexes like Auschwitz.

[Russell]

What's next?!?

Hitler the Jew hugger?

[Samurai_Jerk]

Yeah, I'm sure the well-organized mechanized slaughter of millions of "untermenschen" in death camps by Germany and her allies was just a situation that spun out of control. Those poor Germans never meant to hurt anyone.

Anyway, back to the Nanjing "Incident" ...

Japan considers pulling UNESCO funding over Nanjing row

Japan warned on Tuesday that it might pull funding for UNESCO to protest last week's decision to inscribe documents related to the Nanjing massacre in its Memory of the World register.

[Yokohammer]

Wow, I bet that'll convince UNESCO to change their minds.


~ Tapatalking ~

[dimwit]

I loved how they talk about the decision lacking transparency. There is nothing quite as funny as an angry hypocrite.

[inflames]

Japan apparently contributes around $30mln per year.... I bet the Chinese will simply step in with that (at a minimum) if funding disappears. They'll also laugh all the way. Then again, Japan will save the money and nobody new will believe them either way, so I guess at a minimum Japan loses almost nothing and saves $30 mln.

[Wage Slave]

They won't pull funding. They're far too hooked on more world cultural heritage sites being created in Japan and the consequent tourism. Pride and moneymaking will trump the nationalist tantrums.

[legion]

The orders for the Final Solution never explicitly stated a program of mass killing.

I think this series is the closest you will get to the truth.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x13pwg5_the-world-at-war-ep-1-a-new-germany-1933-1939_shortfilms

Interviews with people who were at the center of it all, Hitler's personal body guard, one of his secretaries, regular soldiers.

I see. On a narrow technical basis you may be right. Deniability is a very useful concept when you are doing things you shouldn't be.Still, I find it very hard to believe that people didn't know what was going on even if they predictably claimed later they didn't. And area and local commanders certainly knew what was happening at massive and permanent complexes like Auschwitz.

No shortage of documentary evidence of what really happened. The body language of the civilians tells the story, the locals had no idea what they were going to see.

On an exact basis I am right. That's why that World at War documentary is so good, it allows people to explain how they were sucked into the situation, and how the situation spiraled out of control.

[legion]

Yeah, I'm sure the well-organized mechanized slaughter of millions of "untermenschen" in death camps by Germany and her allies was just a situation that spun out of control. Those poor Germans never meant to hurt anyone.

Maybe you don't understand what "spun out of control" means.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.