Japanese sleeper with a killer design

[Taro Toporific]

JR East to launch new luxury sleeper train in 2017
Mainichi.jp / 2014may04
East Japan Railway Co. (JR East) on June 3 unveiled its new luxury sleeper train scheduled to start operations in the spring of 2017.
The champagne gold colored 10-car train is designed to carry a maximum of 34 passengers. The front cars will have observation areas, built with glass ceilings...more...

luxurious-sleeper.jpg

Coming in 2017 is the most luxurious Japanese train interior, evar.

http://www.asahi.com/articles/ASG6356YWG63UTIL03H.html (In Japanese)

super-sleeper.jpg

Is it a killer design or artistic license?

killer-design.png

[kurogane]

Eeery. This could prove to be a very high tech version of Obasuteyama. Has anyone done a cost-benefit analysis based on the revenue potential of the obvious target market for a Japanese sleeper train in the year of our lord 2017 ( ) and their early permanent retirement from the pension and health systems due to, shall we say, the inevitable efficiacies of the internally coherent structural functionalities you pointed out?

Or perhaps this is simply a newer version of the old Kanamit conspiracy, as detailed in their manual To Serve Man.

Is that your mockup of The Killer Design? Very good eye young man. I just sighed at the Futuro-nostalgia of it all, and that dorky front end looks like it was designed by that fool that ruined Kyoto Station. All long distance trains must have proper bullet noses. This should be made law. At the very least, at least make it look streamlined and aerodynamic a la the old Raicho or Thunderbird lines. Ever notice what the best translation of Raicho is, and then realise they run on the same line? Weird.

[Russell]

It kinda looks like there is no driver.

Or is he seated in the back?!?

[wagyl]

Raicho or Thunderbird lines. Ever notice what the best translation of Raicho is, and then realise they run on the same line? Weird.

The best translation of raicho is ptarmigan.
The wanky and bad translation of raicho is thunderbird, since that word is already allocated in its original language to different, mythological creatures (and in a limited usage, an extinct megafauna).

[yanpa]

It kinda looks like there is no driver.

Or is he seated in the back?!?

that dorky front end looks like it was designed by that fool that ruined Kyoto Station.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the end of the train shown here is the observation car at the rear end.

[Wage Slave]

It kinda looks like there is no driver.

Or is he seated in the back?!?

that dorky front end looks like it was designed by that fool that ruined Kyoto Station.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the end of the train shown here is the observation car at the rear end.

Either that or aerodynamics don't matter much.

Actually, perhaps they don't for non rapido trains. Kintetsu, who generally know their stuff backwards, don't bother with pointy noses on anything less than their limited express trains.

[yanpa]

It kinda looks like there is no driver.

Or is he seated in the back?!?

that dorky front end looks like it was designed by that fool that ruined Kyoto Station.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the end of the train shown here is the observation car at the rear end.

Nope - looking at the press release (PDF) it looks like both ends of the train will be that shape, and the driver will be sitting in a very transparent cockpit right at the front (see picture at the bottom of the 2nd page in the PDF). Also, if you look closely, the stair layout in the suites is not the deathtrap Taro suggests.

Either that or aerodynamics don't matter much.

Actually, perhaps they don't for non rapido trains. Kintetsu, who generally know their stuff backwards, don't bother with pointy noses on anything less than their limited express trains.

Below a certain speed (I don't recall which) it doesn't make any difference. And sleeper trains aren't exactly known for their speed.

[Coligny]

Below a certain speed (I don't recall which) it doesn't make any difference. And sleeper trains aren't exactly known for their speed.

Drag grows square of speed. Start to matter around 50kph (speed at which forward placed roofbars start to whistle)
Regionnal trains go at 100-120kph between stops. In normal countries fret goes at around 160kph with the proper engine in front.

[kurogane]

Raicho or Thunderbird lines. Ever notice what the best translation of Raicho is, and then realise they run on the same line? Weird.

The best translation of raicho is ptarmigan..

Killjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd probably go with Grouse (http://www.hww.ca/en/species/birds/ptarmigan.html), but yeeah. Good work. Still, kinda funny they named the successor after the bad translation of the original. And it is way cooler to call it Thunderbird. Coz that was that weird TV show.

Forgot you were a Kansai'ed Muthafukka yourself

[wagyl]

What the fuck, I'll go with the threadjack since you went there:

All of them, all at once, for those pressed for time

Probably better viewed direct in youtube so that you can fullscreen it.

Also, I am more than certain that it is no coincidence that the train services were named that way. In my view it is less funny haha and less funny strange and more sad.

[Wage Slave]

Below a certain speed (I don't recall which) it doesn't make any difference. And sleeper trains aren't exactly known for their speed.

Drag grows square of speed. Start to matter around 50kph (speed at which forward placed roofbars start to whistle)
Regionnal trains go at 100-120kph between stops. In normal countries fret goes at around 160kph with the proper engine in front.

It does but I think how significant that is depends on the vehicle too. A car is, what, half as wide as it is long so wind resistance will be a significant factor fairly early on in the calculations. A train though is much much longer than it is wide so until you reach much higher speeds it isn't nearly so significant. It's also so much heavier than a car with far more rolling resistance so the forces needed to get that moving and keep it moving are so much greater than the relatively trivial wind resistance on the little front. Until you get to much faster speeds that is.

[Russell]

Below a certain speed (I don't recall which) it doesn't make any difference. And sleeper trains aren't exactly known for their speed.

Drag grows square of speed. Start to matter around 50kph (speed at which forward placed roofbars start to whistle)
Regionnal trains go at 100-120kph between stops. In normal countries fret goes at around 160kph with the proper engine in front.

It does but I think how significant that is depends on the vehicle too. A car is, what, half as wide as it is long so wind resistance will be a significant factor fairly early on in the calculations. A train though is much much longer than it is wide so until you reach much higher speeds it isn't nearly so significant. It's also so much heavier than a car with far more rolling resistance so the forces needed to get that moving and keep it moving are so much greater than the relatively trivial wind resistance on the little front. Until you get to much faster speeds that is.

The aerodynamic drag of an object is mostly dependent on the frontal area and velocity, as well as some coefficients determined by the smoothness of the surface. Basically, the length of an object is not so relevant, though it may influence the drag coefficient. I am not so sure whether the rolling resistance of a train is so much less than the aerodynamic drag. Of course it depends on the number of wheels and so indirectly on the length of the train.

[Wage Slave]

Below a certain speed (I don't recall which) it doesn't make any difference. And sleeper trains aren't exactly known for their speed.

Drag grows square of speed. Start to matter around 50kph (speed at which forward placed roofbars start to whistle)
Regionnal trains go at 100-120kph between stops. In normal countries fret goes at around 160kph with the proper engine in front.

It does but I think how significant that is depends on the vehicle too. A car is, what, half as wide as it is long so wind resistance will be a significant factor fairly early on in the calculations. A train though is much much longer than it is wide so until you reach much higher speeds it isn't nearly so significant. It's also so much heavier than a car with far more rolling resistance so the forces needed to get that moving and keep it moving are so much greater than the relatively trivial wind resistance on the little front. Until you get to much faster speeds that is.

The aerodynamic drag of an object is mostly dependent on the frontal area and velocity, as well as some coefficients determined by the smoothness of the surface. Basically, the length of an object is not so relevant, though it may influence the drag coefficient. I am not so sure whether the rolling resistance of a train is so much less than the aerodynamic drag. Of course it depends on the number of wheels and so indirectly on the length of the train.

My point is that because the train is so long and heavy the rolling resistance would be much higher than the wind resistance at the front. Also the force needed to get that huge mass moving and accelerating is so great a bit of wind resistance on that little front end is not significant. Until you get to much higher speeds that is.

Hence, Kintetsu run trains with a wall like front at up to 110 km/hr or so. I suppose they do it because if the front of the driver carriage is the same as all the others it can be used as a normal carriage in the middle of a longer train when it suits. I have seen that from time to time.

[Coligny]

At speed the rolling resistance become negligible against the drag... In the back...

Record setting carriage for the French TGV have standard drivetrain, but all the gaps along the body of the train are taped shut, shield wipers removed, profiled overhead pantograph and nearly most importantly a spoiler taped to the rear engine to achieve kammback design.

From the start rolling resistance is the strongpoint of trains... By design... Against that you have the drag which grows exponentially...

That why the Bugatti Veyron needs 1000 bhp to reach 400kph. Going 0 to 100, easy, 100 to 200 still a milk run, 200 to 300 getting a bit of a work, 300 to 400 that's where you're going to waste most horsepower for the smallest speed gain.

[Taro Toporific]

It kinda looks like there is no driver.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the end of the train shown here is the observation car at the rear end.

JR's press release of June 4

side-view.jpg

2013 concept pix

japon.jpg

[Russell]

OK, so the bloke sits under the observation deck.

[Coligny]

Like meitetsu panorama trains doing Gifu-Nagoya-Toyohashi