MH370 KUL-PEK

[Coligny]

Back to MH 370...

How many more lost at sea before buoy gets mandatory...

image.jpg

Should be some place near the tail for a breakaway mount...

[Coligny]

Hear, Hear. You summarise it exactly. Not only was that Malaysian Airlines flight going over a warzone, the same area that other airline companies have avoided since the troubles there turned into actual shooting - it was actually flying fairly low, much lower than any other airline irresponsible enough to go there to save time on their schedule as apparently Malaysian Airlines did.

.

According to http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/mh17-w ... 0/+pgeorge

It was fl 330 (33 000 ft) for long haul flight 777-300 seems to be quite high already.

[Coligny]

Ok, strike that, it was a 200 er.

[Russell]

Ok, strike that, it was a 200 er.

Nope, it was at 33,000 feet, but this was just 1000 feet above restricted air space.

Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was flying just 1,000 feet (300 metres) above restricted airspace when it was shot down, according to the European air traffic control body.

Eurocontrol said Ukrainian authorities had barred aircraft from ground level to 32,000 feet but the doomed aircraft was cruising at 33,000 feet, still within range of sophisticated ground-to-air weaponry, when it was hit. All flights in eastern Ukraine have now been barred from the area, Eurocontrol added.

"The aircraft was flying at Flight Level 330 [approximately 10,000 metres/33,000 ft] when it disappeared from the radar," said. "This route had been closed by the Ukrainian authorities from ground to flight level 320 [32,000ft] but was open at the level at which the aircraft was flying."

It also emerged that as recently as a month ago British airlines were given the all-clear to overfly the area where flight MH17 was downed, after being told that operations were "normal" in the region.

[...]

Eurocontrol said flight restrictions were not in place for airspace at cruising altitude, where MH17 was hit.

A global airline industry group said on Thursday that MH17 appeared to have been flying through ordinary and open airspace when it crashed.

"Based on the information currently available, it is believed that the airspace that the aircraft was traversing was not subject to restrictions," said the International Air Transport Association.

[...]

A pilot for a major European airline who has flown over Ukraine since the conflict began said it was normal practice for airlines to fly over conflict zones. "We would often avoid areas where there is air-to-air conflict, but we flew over Iraq and Afghanistan when the British and US armed forces were deployed there, because only one side was using military jets."

Explaining why airlines fly over conflict zones, where groups might be in possession of ground-to-air missiles, the pilot said: "There will be weapons based on the ground when you are at 30,000 feet, but that is far up in the air. There are not many missile systems that can be so accurate."

The pilot added that hand-held missile systems were not viewed as a threat to airlines flying at altitude but sophisticated weaponry, such as the Buk system that has been cited as being involved in the MH17 disaster, was much more dangerous.

[...]

The pilot's comments indicate that assumptions about flying over conflict zones where groups are known to be armed with ground-to-air missiles will now have to be reviewed. However, the pilot added that Ukrainian airspace was regularly overflown by European airlines – including British Airways, Lufthansa and KLM – and imposing a no-fly zone over the entire country would have commercial and logistical consequences for carriers.

"Ukraine is huge. If you were to close that airspace it would be a long way round for a lot of airlines. If you were to close it to high-level traffic it would be quite expensive in terms of extra fuel and it would be quite disruptive."

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[Coligny]

No, 200 er like in 777-200 er, which seems to be better in the power to weight category...

[wagyl]

In the mean time there are reports of personal items taken from the dead. Bodies are also being taken by trucks to undisclosed locations. There is growing outrage in the Dutch media about the disrespectful behavior.

It is not just the local people showing disrespect. Excellent work, Sky News! https://vine.co/v/M2WLQjDuOhA

[Russell]

This is getting ridiculous.

48 killed in Taiwan plane crash

Algeria airliner missing on Sahara route from Burkina Faso

[wagyl]

Even with all these planes in the air, we still have a long way to go before this is anywhere near being a bad year (graph in article is only to 8 March 2014, but my oh my, look at 1972!)

Meanwhile, Russell, YOU FREAKING DRIVE A CAR!!!!!?????

[Coligny]

This is getting ridiculous.

48 killed in Taiwan plane crash

They took off with an ATR42 in the tail of the big typhoon "matmo" hitting Taiwan... Schedule versus common sense... Also, Taiwan seems to have a bad track record there... I Remember at least one crash investigation doc were not trying to take off or land in a typhoon would have helped avoiding crash...

[Russell]

Even with all these planes in the air, we still have a long way to go before this is anywhere near being a bad year (graph in article is only to 8 March 2014, but my oh my, look at 1972!)

Meanwhile, Russell, YOU FREAKING DRIVE A CAR!!!!!?????

Yep, I know, I know, though through circumstances I drive a lot less nowadays than a couple of years ago.

That said, the frequency of plane accidents seem to have risen suddenly in the last week.

For the next week, I hope it will be better. I plan to travel three times by air in that period, be it inside Japan.

Edit: Crashed.

[yanpa]

If you're avoiding air travel after MH17 and more, let statistics be your guide
You've undoubtedly heard that you're more likely to get hit by lightning or die in a car wreck. But is that really true?

Is it really so irrational to avoid air travel in the wake of the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine, and the TransAsia crash off the coast of Taiwan, and now the Algerian airliner in Northern Africa?

Yes. Completely, totally and entirely irrational. You are probably not going to die in an airplane crash.

...more...

[wagyl]

And that article is certainly keeping it classy:

Whichever way you slice the figures (1,589 people were killed in the US in knife-related homicides in 2013)...

[yanpa]

And that article is certainly keeping it classy:

Whichever way you slice the figures (1,589 people were killed in the US in knife-related homicides in 2013)...

Don't get all cut-up about it.

[Coligny]

Two French fighter jets based in the region have been dispatched to try to locate the airliner along its probable route, a French army spokesman said

Please... Don't ask... We truly are the kings of not letting it go...

Also...

One more:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... crash.html

[wagyl]

And that article is certainly keeping it classy:

Whichever way you slice the figures (1,589 people were killed in the US in knife-related homicides in 2013)...

Don't get all cut-up about it.

Lame!

[Coligny]

If you're avoiding air travel after MH17 and more, let statistics be your guide
You've undoubtedly heard that you're more likely to get hit by lightning or die in a car wreck. But is that really true?

Is it really so irrational to avoid air travel in the wake of the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine, and the TransAsia crash off the coast of Taiwan, and now the Algerian airliner in Northern Africa?

Yes. Completely, totally and entirely irrational. You are probably not going to die in an airplane crash.

but if you surrender your decisions to an article from a guardian journalist you might as well take the chance of being cleared out a the gene pool.


Lies, damned lies, and statistics

Hint: yes air travel is safe with stats backing and shit... Now, show me the stats concerning survival rates of a flight in a medium prop airplane taking off and landing through a typhoon...

[Mike Oxlong]

Australia says MH370 'may have turned south earlier than thought'

The hunt for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 will focus on the southern part of the existing search zone after a new clue to the plane's possible location emerged, Australia said on Thursday.

Fresh information suggested the jet "may have turned south" earlier than thought, Deputy Prime Minister Warren Truss said.

The detail came to light following "further refinement" of satellite data and as investigators attempted to map the plane's position during a failed attempt to contact it earlier in its flight path.

"The search area remains the same, but some of the information that we now have suggests to us that areas a little further to the south -- within the search area, but a little further to the south -- are of particular interest and priority in the search area," he said.

His comments came as Australia and Malaysia inked a memorandum of understanding in Canberra over the next phase of the hunt for the plane, which disappeared on March 8 with 239 people on board en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.

The signing followed a meeting between the two nations and China's Vice-Minister of Transport He Jianzhong.

http://news.yahoo.com/australia-says-mh ... NlYwNzYw--

[Russell]

Another speculative article about what happened with flight MH370, but one interesting comment wonders why nobody tracked this flight at this link. I guess it does not work once a plane's transponders are turned off. Still a cool link.

[wagyl]

Indeed. I was first introduced to that link by a cool little site viewtopic.php?f=50&t=29397

[Wibble]

Another speculative article about what happened with flight MH370, but one interesting comment wonders why nobody tracked this flight at this link. I guess it does not work once a plane's transponders are turned off. Still a cool link.

Exactly that. Flightradar (other trackers are available) works off the transponder signals (ADS-B). Volunteers have web-connected receivers at home that send the information to the websites. The coverage is patchy in certain parts of the world depending on where enthusiasts pony up the money for the equipment. Tracking to the point the transponders were switched off on MH370 was recorded though.

[Russell]

Chinese police break up families' prayers

Relatives of passengers on the missing Malaysia Airlines jet MH370 gathered at a temple in Beijing to mark the six-month anniversary of its disappearance, as a small band of plainclothes police pressured them to disperse.

While the family members ostensibly gathered on Monday morning to pray for their relatives, the meeting quickly turned into a demonstration.

The family members, most of them elderly, stood in a cluster at the gates of the Lama Temple in central Beijing, wearing T-shirts that read "pray for MH370 to peacefully return home". Many of them sobbed and one man recited poems he had written since the plane vanished. Only a few minutes into the demonstration, plainclothes security officers broke through a ring of camera-wielding journalists and shouted for him to stop.

[...]

Some family members say that authorities have begun to treat them like dissidents. In July, police detained about 30 family members, including two young children, for attempting to sleep at a MH370 relatives support center, Dai said, despite permission from center staff to do so. At least two family members were beaten in detention, she said.

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So much empathy...

[matsuki]

I'll never understand the tolerance in Asia for undercover policing....that being said, fucking heartless cunts

[wagyl]

I'll never understand the tolerance in Asia for undercover policing....that being said, fucking heartless cunts

What proportion of your taxes go to the NSA and CIA budget? Are you prepared to tolerate that?

[Samurai_Jerk]

I'll never understand the tolerance in Asia for undercover policing....that being said, fucking heartless cunts

What proportion of your taxes go to the NSA and CIA budget? Are you prepared to tolerate that?

How about the tolerance for gunning down minorities, confiscating property for minor drug offences, locking people up for marijuana possession, tazing people for asking why they're being arrested, sentencing children to life in prison, or sending the SWAT team crashing through the front door on unverified anonymous tips?

[matsuki]

I'll never understand the tolerance in Asia for undercover policing....that being said, fucking heartless cunts

What proportion of your taxes go to the NSA and CIA budget? Are you prepared to tolerate that?

How about the tolerance for gunning down minorities, confiscating property for minor drug offences, locking people up for marijuana possession, tazing people for asking why they're being arrested, sentencing children to life in prison, or sending the SWAT team crashing through the front door on unverified anonymous tips?

I'm talking about plain clothed cops and those hidden patrol cars, seems to just be accepted as normal practice here....whereas the topics you brought up, there is quite a backlash for all that is there not?

[IparryU]

I'll never understand the tolerance in Asia for undercover policing....that being said, fucking heartless cunts

What proportion of your taxes go to the NSA and CIA budget? Are you prepared to tolerate that?

How about the tolerance for gunning down minorities, confiscating property for minor drug offences, locking people up for marijuana possession, tazing people for asking why they're being arrested, sentencing children to life in prison, or sending the SWAT team crashing through the front door on unverified anonymous tips?

I'm talking about plain clothed cops and those hidden patrol cars, seems to just be accepted as normal practice here....whereas the topics you brought up, there is quite a backlash for all that is there not?

I for one am against undercover cops.... especially new ones who put they hands on you

[Samurai_Jerk]

I'll never understand the tolerance in Asia for undercover policing....that being said, fucking heartless cunts

What proportion of your taxes go to the NSA and CIA budget? Are you prepared to tolerate that?

How about the tolerance for gunning down minorities, confiscating property for minor drug offences, locking people up for marijuana possession, tazing people for asking why they're being arrested, sentencing children to life in prison, or sending the SWAT team crashing through the front door on unverified anonymous tips?

I'm talking about plain clothed cops and those hidden patrol cars, seems to just be accepted as normal practice here....whereas the topics you brought up, there is quite a backlash for all that is there not?

Not really as most Americans support what the police do (and I'm not talking about Ferguson specifically). Besides there are plainclothes cops all over the place in the US. They used hang out in unmarked cars outside my high school all the time.

[Mike Oxlong]

New theory...

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/v ... y9pVODlink

[matsuki]

Soooo, have they secured the hatches on those things now? If not, they just encouraged some nutjobs to test out the method

[Russell]

Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 was 'shot down by the US military'

A French former airline director has claimed that the US military may have shot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 and covered it up.

Marc Dugain, who headed Proteus Airlines and is an established author, speculated that the Americans may have targeted the aircraft because they feared a September 11-style attack on a military base in the Indian Ocean.

In an article for French magazine Paris Match, he claimed that the Boeing 777 crashed nowhere near where international search teams have been combing the ocean for wreckage, but near an American military base in the British territory of Diego Garcia.

“It’s an extremely powerful military base. It’s surprising that the Americans have lost all trace of this aircraft. Without getting into conspiracy theories, it is a possibility that the Americans stopped this plane,” he told France Inter, according to a translation by The Local.

Mr Dugain asked how “in our technological world” a 63 metre-long object could disappear without a trace, suggesting there must have been a deliberate effort to hide evidence.

The atoll, almost 3,000 miles north-west of Australia, has been used as a significant US military base since the 1970s and is currently home to 1,700 military personnel.

Many conspiracy theories about Diego Garcia have been aired since the disappearance of MH370 but the US government has repeatedly denied that the plane came anywhere near it.

Mr Dugain cited witnesses in the Maldives as evidence, who reportedly told him they had seen a “huge plane flying at a really low altitude” towards the island bearing the Malaysia Airlines colours.

Shortly after the aircraft’s disappearance on 8 March, with 239 people from 15 countries on board, local media in the Maldives reported that an object believed to be a fire extinguisher from the plane had washed up on a beach in Baarah. The find was never confirmed.

Mr Dugain argued that the MH370 may have been remotely hijacked by hackers and steered towards Diego Garcia, which is far from its planned flight path from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.

To explain the absence of electronic communication as the plane disappeared from radar, he said a fire could have forced the crew to turn off all devices, without damaging the plane’s exterior.

The official report on MH370 said its passengers most probably died from suffocation as the cabin ran out of oxygen, leaving it to continue on auto-pilot until it ran out of fuel and plunged into the ocean.

No new evidence from within the Boeing 777 has emerged, leaving the Australian Transport Safety Board to compare the flight with previous disasters to draw their conclusion.

Mr Dugain claimed he had been warned by a British intelligence officer of taking “risks” by looking into the fate of MH370.

“Someone knows,” he added.

The head of Emirates, the world’s largest international airline, is among those who have echoed Mr Dugain’s questions about the availability of evidence.

Sir Tim Clark revealed his doubts in October, saying he did not believe “that the information held by some is on the table”, and that his electronic engineers believe that even with communication systems switched off, the plane would still be traceable.

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The proof of this conjecture appears weak, but not weaker than any other conjectures.

Anyway, it wouldn't surprise me in some way...