No Welfare for Foreigners – Supreme Court

[Takechanpoo]

The more Japan reminds me that I'm not part of their society, the more anti-social acts I commit. For example, I started littering recently. Only in the cities, which I already consider dumps.

That's kind of a different issue....the lack of trashcans in public here and the demand that you "bring your trash and dirty diapers home with you" is just shitty for everyone.

Speaking of shitty, I think my next act will be to take a dump in a park. Or maybe on one of those gateball fields the old farts use.

Passive Aggressive much?

I bet you are the type that smashes in mailboxes in the middle of the night or key the cars of people who have "wronged" you. That is just cowardly and misplaced self-loathing.

Just my two yen.. my 3 year old son was born in Japan and has PR - not SPR.

japaneses word "陰湿" should be translated to "passive aggressive".
Hijinx is so japanese at this point. or so many passive aggressive fellows here so he does the same things?
i will introduce new word to him.
"女の腐ったような奴(a rotten-woman-like guy)"

sorry for off topic

[Hijinx]

Passive Aggressive much?

You need to go study up on that term as your analysis indicates that you don't properly understand it.

I bet you are the type that smashes in mailboxes in the middle of the night or key the cars of people who have "wronged" you.

Well, I have on one or two occasions (many, many moons ago) played mailbox baseball, but no one had wronged us--it was just fun.

misplaced self-loathing.

Again, your attempts at psychological analysis far way short of even being considered erroneous pop psych.

[kurogane]

But the J system and society and K system and society favour people like Havill over those with no Japanese or Korean familial networks and contacts. In western societies an unmarried person who has a strong work history and demonstrable skills will be treated favourably by the PR/Citizenship system

While this is true, and I have a similar situation, you're comparing apples and persimmons. Our systems are explicitly designed to attract and retain attractive foreign applicants that will become members of the recipient society whether those applicants have significant existing connections to that society or not. The Japanese PR system is there to provide a degree of residential stability that allows established residents with exactly those sorts of connections to provide for their families. Period. It isn't an Immigrant Visa.

The seepage of those sorts of ethnocentric projection into these discussions makes them sound rather silly rather frequently. Japan is not an immigrant country. Ours are. It isn't actually that complicated but the insistence on measuring them by our standards can make it seem so. Which isn't to say I don't get where you're coming from at a gut level, but I do admit I don't get the point of bothering to be bothered by it.

[wangta]

The more Japan reminds me that I'm not part of their society, the more anti-social acts I commit. For example, I started littering recently. Only in the cities, which I already consider dumps.

Speaking of shitty, I think my next act will be to take a dump in a park. Or maybe on one of those gateball fields the old farts use.

Passive Aggressive much?

I bet you are the type that smashes in mailboxes in the middle of the night or key the cars of people who have "wronged" you. That is just cowardly and misplaced self-loathing.

Just my two yen.. my 3 year old son was born in Japan and has PR - not SPR.

To be fair to Hijinx, I've read his/her posts many times on gaijinpot when I was a lurker and they have a sense of humour that's not picked up on at times. I usually enjoyed their posts and also that of another gaijinpot fixture then - kurogane.

I get what Hijinx means by the littering even if they were writing in jest. Japan's a great place in so many ways but honestly, what a dump in some ways. That becomes more apparent when you leave and return. I was in Japan some years ago and when I returned what struck me was all the trash and rusty objects strewn around. Not necessarily so much paper on the streets but just dumping trash near railway stations, leaving all those rusty bicycles around, not many but still obvious cars and other vehicles that have been abandoned just sitting collecting rust.

My last 'city', tho a bit bumfuck, had some really nice mountains and rivers but it never ceased to surprise me how residents near those nice places tolerated some cunts' abandoned trucks or cars opposite their houses. Maybe they had no choice but in that case it was a reflection on the local city hall/ward office that there are no enforced by-laws about this kind of shitty behaviour or no bylaws at all.

And just about everywhere in Japan, big city or small, outer suburb or inaka, has all those bits of glass strewn, pieces of metal and other things just sitting there for years just off the streets or in the grassy or dirt areas near mountains and rivers, etc.

[kurogane]

To be fair to Hijinx, I've read his/her posts many times on gaijinpot when I was a lurker and they have a sense of humour that's not picked up on at times..

Not to mention that littering makes him a part of Japanese society, not apart from it...........nice defence, though.

I was in Japan some years ago and when I returned what struck me was all the trash and rusty objects strewn around. Not necessarily so much paper on the streets but just dumping trash near railway stations, leaving all those rusty bicycles around, not many but still obvious cars and other vehicles that have been abandoned just sitting collecting rust.

This is probably Takechinpo's schtick, but that is the Sabi part of Wabi / Sabi. Live the dream babe.

[matsuki]

Japan is not an immigrant country.

It's 2014....the only non-immigrant country that comes to mind is North Korea. That being said, Japan is a cuntry with it's head so far up it's own ass that it fails to see how fucked it's current trajectory is and indeed, isn't encouraging immigration.

[kurogane]

You have summarised my point beautifully. At least somebody's getting it............................

So, anyways: Can anybody come up with even 3 good reasons why Japan, a traditionally self-contained monoethnic state like few others in its rank that neither really wants nor needs large scale immigration should even consider it as a viable and practical option for demographic and economic policy?

Please refrain from ethnocentric projectionalising that reeks of Yet More White People telling Japan how to live its life.

I would also love to hear what those famously global and open minded Japanese peoploids many of you seem to know think about the immigration idea (I mean that loveable ilk Rusell often speaks of). I have heard they exist but I don't seem to meet them................

[havill]

Part 2 of my reply

Just about every western country especially the immigrant countries of New Zealand, Australia, Canada, and the US have easier policies on citizenship than Japan.
...
[Other countries have] Very easy or non existent language tests.
...
Japan imposes a raft of conditions on would be citizens including ... stringent language ... tests.

This is yet another myth. There is actually neither a mandatory Japanese language test nor a "citizenship knowledge test" for Japanese naturalization. When a case officer assesses your language ability, he/she is doing so to check the one of the legal requirement for naturalization that says that applicants must be

able to make a living through his/her own assets or abilities, or through those of a spouse or of another relative making a living

Japanese case workers may, at their individual discretion, test somebody's Japanese level if they sense that they lack the skills to survive outside of the English/Chinese/Korean/Portuguese micro-communities within Japan.

Of the 30 people I've personally interviewed or wrote to me who have successfully naturalized, only one has had their Japanese tested. And he passed and successfully naturalized, despite not being able to make it day-by-day in Japanese exclusively. He admittedly self-described his Japanese as "iffy". He was given a very basic kanji test, one that an lower elementary school student would get. For example, how do you read the kanji 「学校」? I would count that as "very easy" -- like reading the English sentence "Jane eats the apple."

In my personal case, I wasn't tested. Neither was anybody I know that can hold a simple conversation in Japanese for more than 15 seconds without struggling . Nobody knows exactly when and why they decide to test somebody, but the rule of thumb most agree on is: if you can understand the case worker and he/she can reasonably understand you (you don't have to be fluent or accent-less) during a 45 minute appointment, you pass: no Japanese test needed.

More info: http://www.turning-japanese.info/2010/0 ... rfect.html

There's only one person I know who was sent away from the interview for not having adequate Japanese skills (this person posted in the comments and identified himself by his real name on the site): he is a regular of a English-speaking-foreigner-Japan-criticism blog that shall remain unnamed. He was told to come back when he knew more Japanese because he had to refer to his cell phone to write his own personal details while completing a form (!).

==

As for your claim that "Very easy or non existent language tests", I'm guessing that you just pulled that out of your bottom, because by simply looking at the official government sites (for the example countries you mention) that detail the requirements for naturalization, we can see otherwise:

==

So are the tests "very easy" or do they have "non existent language tests"?

• UK: 33% of people failed their citizenship/English on the first time (2009)
  

  You might need to prove your knowledge of the English language if you’re over 18 and applying for citizenship or to settle in the UK (known as ‘indefinite leave to remain’) - unless you’re exempt.
  You can prove it by having either:
  
  an English qualification at B1 level
  a degree taught or researched in English

• CA: 20% of people fail their citizenship test (2009)
  

  You must have reached the Canadian Language Benchmarks (CLB) / Niveaux de compétence linguistique canadien (NCLC) Level 4 (CLB/NCLC 4) or higher in speaking and listening.
  
  Reaching CLB/NCLC 4 means you have “adequate knowledge” of English or French, which you need to become a Canadian citizen. We use a few ways to determine if you have reached Level 4.

  CLB 4 means "Fluent Basic Ability".
• AU:

  The test is also designed to assess whether you have a basic knowledge of the English language. English is our national language. Communicating in English helps you to play a more active role in Australian society. It helps you to take full advantage of education, employment and the other opportunities Australia has to offer.

• US: the English test looks about the same as the rinky-dink Japanese test that quizzes on a young child's level vocabulary.

US and AU: US and AU are interesting cases, because although they have pass rates of above 90%, both of these countries basically give the answers out to the tests beforehand, and as the applicants pay hundreds of dollars (mandatory fees) to thousands (if they use a lawyer) -- Japanese naturalization, by the way, is free -- they almost always cram memorize the answers in advance. I took the online AU practice test without cribbing from the cheat sheet, and while I passed from gut instinct and a good university education and a knowledge of Australia (I travel there often), I would not call it easy. 33% of native-born Americans can't pass the U.S. test cold.

It's true that most countries have test exemptions for senior citizens and other special class people (so does Japan, by the way: no Japanese essay needed for younger minors or SPRs).

[Samurai_Jerk]

So, anyways: Can anybody come up with even 3 good reasons why Japan, a traditionally self-contained monoethnic state like few others in its rank that neither really wants nor needs large scale immigration should even consider it as a viable and practical option for demographic and economic policy?

I'm sure people can come up with reason but whether or not they are good is another question. I know I'm not telling you anything you don't already know but like a lot of other countries Japan is struggling with how to generate revenue when you have a lot of old people sucking up resources and not enough young people paying into the system. Allowing immigration is one way to change that balance. Is is the only way though? Of course not. However, getting government to cut waste is all but impossible and raising taxes can be political suicide. There is probably some way to totally reform "the system" but even if someone has thought of it, there is no way it'll ever get it implemented in Japan or anywhere else.

The other issue is lack of talent in certain fields. I do think that allowing more people to enter Japan from overseas would solve that problem in some areas like care giving. However, as we've discussed on here before, I don't see highly skilled professionals like software engineers flocking to Japan no matter how easy they make it to work here. Until English is the lingua franca of business, the standard of living is first world, and there are serious technological innovations being made, Japan will never be an attractive place to work for the best and the brightest. They'll also have to start paying people better too.

Please refrain from ethnocentric projectionalising that reeks of Yet More White People telling Japan how to live its life.

More hipsterism from the guy who hates hipsters. Why don't you go where an ironic T-shirt and drink some super double hop blueberry IPA?

I would also love to hear what those famously global and open minded Japanese peoploids many of you seem to know think about the immigration idea (I mean that loveable ilk Rusell often speaks of). I have heard they exist but I don't seem to meet them................

I've definitely spoken with people who think Japan needs more immigration or should at least make it easier for people who've been here awhile to become PR's or citizens. My friend who works in a staffing agency that specializes in nurses and care givers would definitely like to see more SE Asians allowed in to fill needs in that industry. Oh, and it's not necessarily the global supposedly open-minded types that think this. It's often the blue-collar folks in shitamachi Tokyo that actually work with Asians and Africans everyday and hang out at Phillipine Pubs at night that are most open to the idea. Of course those same neighborhoods probably also produce a lot of the wannabe gangsters that end up as uyoku.

[Wage Slave]

The other issue is lack of talent in certain fields. I do think that allowing more people to enter Japan from overseas would solve that problem in some areas like care giving.

People often think about immigration in terms of importing skills, talent and generally cherrypicking. All countries do that to some degree of course and there is a certain amount of immigration based on that. It's not the main game though. Developed countries with a reasonably skilled population and a large number of old people and a permanent underclass need (in order to maintain their affluence) a lot of people to do the low level drudge work at low wages.

Carework is a classic and growing need. It is hard, sometimes dirty,sometimes emotionally draining, low or minimum wage, low skilled work. It is not a matter of talent or training. It is a matter of being prepared to do it for what is currently deemed a market clearing wage - ie very low or minimum. Hospitality is another. HR is another but obviously is more skilled and a better paid.

Nursing is more skilled and somewhat better paid. But compared to the deal offered in other professions not worth the candle. Hence the locals avoid it and hence the need for immigration - or start closing Intensive care units and even whole hospitals.

This is what the vast majority of immigration is needed for. Not a small number of people with in demand skills who can pick and choose where they go and probably will take off elsewhere a few years down the road. And the people who come to do those drudge jobs are probably not going back. For better or worse they are the ones who are going to stick it out. Include them properly and they will pay you back in spades - Exclude them and you make a rod for your own back.

[matsuki]

But Wage Slave, that doesn't take into consideration the unique Japanese culture....if we have all these foreigners roaming around, they might scare the old grandmas and granddads."

[Samurai_Jerk]

But Wage Slave, that doesn't take into consideration the unique Japanese culture....if we have all these foreigners roaming around, they might scare the old grandmas and granddads."

When someone is willing to wipe your ass and clean your bedsores you tend to get over it. Though my grandfather was never happy with the Vietnamese nurse that was caring for him at the end. I think she was giving him WWII flashbacks.

[Wage Slave]

But Wage Slave, that doesn't take into consideration the unique Japanese culture....if we have all these foreigners roaming around, they might scare the old grandmas and granddads."

True. And the old grandmas and grandads are mostly all OK for money thanks to the Showa economy and their never to be seen again pensions. So, I can understand from a narrow, selfish viewpoint why they are opposed.

Was it Ishihara who out and said something like something like immigration and opening up may be necessary for the economy but some things are more important than money and the dignity of the nation is one of them? Which is fine if you have already made your stash.

So they don't feel any obligation to the young - on the contrary. Which I suppose is fair enough in a very self centered way and they did work hard in their day. The question then is this - Is the decline going to unpleasant, difficult and expensive but manageable or are these old men leading us towards a collapse? Japan cap in hand to the IMF and a rescue package with a string of conditions attached?

In a way, I think the old buggers would find that more palatable than doing the necessary off their own bat. Just like at the end of WW2, they could honestly then say shoganai, shrug and then get on with it.

[matsuki]

But Wage Slave, that doesn't take into consideration the unique Japanese culture....if we have all these foreigners roaming around, they might scare the old grandmas and granddads."

True. And the old grandmas and grandads are mostly all OK for money thanks to the Showa economy and their never to be seen again pensions. So, I can understand from a narrow, selfish viewpoint why they are opposed.

Was it Ishihara who out and said something like something like immigration and opening up may be necessary for the economy but some things are more important than money and the dignity of the nation is one of them? Which is fine if you have already made your stash.

So they don't feel any obligation to the young - on the contrary. Which I suppose is fair enough in a very self centered way and they did work hard in their day. The question then is this - Is the decline going to unpleasant, difficult and expensive but manageable or are these old men leading us towards a collapse? Japan cap in hand to the IMF and a rescue package with a string of conditions attached?

In a way, I think the old buggers would find that more palatable than doing the necessary off their own bat. Just like at the end of WW2, they could honestly then say shoganai, shrug and then get on with it.

That's pretty much my interpretation of things here, they made theirs, now it's more about nationalism and unfounded pride than money and reasonable consideration for the future generations. It's mostly the jijis, babas, disgruntled younger men voting for them anyway, always seeing the same ol ganbare nippon, nippontorimodoso, etc. type campaign slogan posters everywhere yet none of these dudes on the posters have viable plans to do what they're stating they will do. I mean, the whole progress "on our terms only" shit is bad enough but the effectiveness of pandering to nostalgia/stereotypes/ethnocentrism here is alarming to say the least. I do, however, think shit will eventually hit the fan...even domesticated sheep will bite/try to escape if the conditions get bad enough. The tax increase to 10% and the further shrinking of the domestic markets may be the catalyst.

[Russell]

More info: http://www.turning-japanese.info/2010/0 ... rfect.html

There's only one person I know who was sent away from the interview for not having adequate Japanese skills (this person posted in the comments and identified himself by his real name on the site): he is a regular of a English-speaking-foreigner-Japan-criticism blog that shall remain unnamed. He was told to come back when he knew more Japanese because he had to refer to his cell phone to write his own personal details while completing a form (!).

Ouch, looks like I would not qualify for Japanese citizenship then, even though my spoken Japanese and typed Japanese is of a very decent level.

Handwriting is just not my thing, so yes, I always check with my cell phone to write my address. People who grew up here from a young age practiced handwriting in school, but I just don't have that experience, and neither do I have the time to learn it.

Too bad that the requirements to naturalize are harder than I thought...

[havill]

Ouch, looks like I would not qualify for Japanese citizenship then, even though my spoken Japanese and typed Japanese is of a very decent level.

Handwriting is just not my thing, so yes, I always check with my cell phone to write my address. People who grew up here from a young age practiced handwriting in school, but I just don't have that experience, and neither do I have the time to learn it.

Too bad that the requirements to naturalize are harder than I thought...

So long as you're not filling out forms or writing things in FRONT of the case worker (in my situation, I don't recall writing things in front of the case worker, but I may have forgotten about a form),

all of the forms/paperwork can be word-processed, except for your Motivation Essay, which must be handwritten.

http://www.turning-japanese.info/2012/0 ... ntent.html
http://www.turning-japanese.info/2014/02/doukisho.html

SPRs and children under 15 do not have to write a Motivation Essay.

[Russell]

Thanks Havill for the added information.

So, I see one would be able to write the essay by hand in advance. That is definitely an advantage. Would it be a problem if there are some small mistakes in it?

I still do not get it that one is not allowed to check on your cell phone how a 漢字 looks like. Most naturally-born Japanese also need to do that occasionally. If one can speak Japanese very well, then it would be very strange to be dismissed.

[havill]

Thanks Havill for the added information.
So, I see one would be able to write the essay by hand in advance. That is definitely an advantage. Would it be a problem if there are some small mistakes in it?

Absolutely not. I sure as hell know there were mistakes in my five page* essay (there were a lot of crossed out characters and words too). In fact, I dare say that if your essay was too good, you would be suspected of receiving help. (In other words, what you speak/say to the case worker does not match the style/ability/sophistication of what you write).

* There's no rule regarding the length, by the way.

I still do not get it that one is not allowed to check on your cell phone how a 漢字 looks like. Most naturally-born Japanese also need to do that occasionally. If one can speak Japanese very well, then it would be very strange to be dismissed.

Yes, but I would argue that most Japanese don't need to use a cell phone to write their home/work address or children's or spouse's names.
Besides, you can always write in kana when a kanji slips your mind when it's for things other than names and addresses.
There's no law that says you HAVE to write in kanji. Kana's more "Japanese" than kanji anyway.

With respect to the guy that claims he was booted because he used his cell phone, I suspect there was a little more going on (with respect to the communication, or lack of it) between the two than he let on -- given how it appeared he was copping an attitude during the interview. I wasn't there of course, so we'll never know for sure.

All I can say is I know for a fact dozens of people in person and hundreds statistically that passed the "Japanese requirement" without having anywhere near Dave Spector-like Japanese abilities.

[Russell]

OK Havill, that clears up much. I do not have concrete plans to naturalize within the coming decade, but if I speed up my plans it is good to know that I am unlikely to be unqualified on the Japanese language front.

With respect to the guy that claims he was booted because he used his cell phone, I suspect there was a little more going on (with respect to the communication, or lack of it) between the two than he let on -- given how it appeared he was copping an attitude during the interview. I wasn't there of course, so we'll never know for sure.

Maybe he wrote in his essay that he preferred to naturalize to a North-Korean, but since already many Japanese live in North-Korea (albeit not entirely voluntarily) he settled for Japan instead...

[havill]

OK Havill, that clears up much. I do not have concrete plans to naturalize within the coming decade, but if I speed up my plans it is good to know that I am unlikely to be unqualified on the Japanese language front.

My only advice: don't wait with PR until you're 82*.

But actually, most Americans I know that naturalize do so in their later years. The last two Americans I worked with who naturalized did so after the age of 70. I naturalized at 40.

Much like believing people shouldn't marry when they're young, I personally don't recommend anybody who comes from a highly developed advanced democracy (a G7/G20, etc) to change their nationality, regardless of the country, if they aren't settled (>35, home/spouse/children/career/etc).

Maybe he wrote in his essay that he preferred to naturalize to a North-Korean, but since already many Japanese live in North-Korea (albeit not entirely voluntarily) he settled for Japan instead...

Yowzas.

* Donald Keene (89) is an exception, rather than the rule.

[Wage Slave]

We seem to have got a long way off the topic but since we are here I have a small quibble with some of the blog. It rather assumes in parts, that the reader is American or at least the situation is the same for non Americans. For example:

in theory, you can change your mind and have it changed or erased, but there are no guarantees.
It should be viewed as more "permanent", and possibly a bigger decision, than marriage.

Thus, I think naturalization to any country is a very important decision, because there's no 100% guarantee you will be able to reverse it or change it. And even if you can, it will probably not be easy.

If you are a UK citizen then there is a guarantee you can change your mind, once at least. It will cost £840 or so but you have a right to reclaim your citizenship and it is easy. I don't know what the situation in other countries is but readers should be encouraged to check. I assume there is no difficulty in renouncing Japanese citizenship if you should choose to do so.

If you have an EU member country passport then in utilitarian terms you are sacrificing a lot if you give it up in favour of a Japanese passport. If you are only going to have one then it may as well be the one that has the most utility.

To kind steer a bit back on topic perhaps it is worth mentioning that when weighing the decision people should consider that if you don't naturalise, then you will never be treated equally in some areas (eg welfare, access to credit, jobs) no matter how long you have lived here or how much you have contributed in tax or in other ways. That may be a strong argument, especially for younger people who still have to make their mark - it's not easy, even without being discriminated against as well.

[havill]

If you are a UK citizen then there is a guarantee you can change your mind, once at least. It will cost £840 or so but you have a right to reclaim your citizenship and it is easy. I don't know what the situation in other countries is but readers should be encouraged to check. I assume there is no difficulty in renouncing Japanese citizenship if you should choose to do so.

Wrong. It is not a "guarantee". Reading the official British documentation (Guide RS1) on this, you have to be "of good character" (that's code for "don't get convicted of offences or be/associate with terrorista/criminals), among other things. You can't go insane either* ("sound mind"). Similar to regaining French (and other) citizenship, if you give it up, get another, then get in trouble with the law, there is no "100% guarantee" you'll get it back.

https://www.gov.uk/renounce-british-nat ... ationality

The wording on the blog entry was accurate wrt the UK.

I know that the concept of getting in trouble with the law seems preposterous to many, but that is one of the big differences between PR and being a national; PR can be revoked / you can be deported if you commit a crime.

* It happens. Lord knows I've met some naturalized Japanese, who in my non-medical opinion, I think are nuts.

[Wage Slave]

OK, but if you have been convicted of terrorism or other serious crime, I suspect you have other things to worry about besides changing your citizenship. You have a RIGHT to reclaim your citizenship unless you have made a complete mess of your life. I don't agree the way it is expressed captures that.

[Yokohammer]

You have a RIGHT to reclaim your citizenship unless you have made a complete mess of your life.

This seems to be the case in Australia too ... with the same "good character" clause in effect.

[Wage Slave]

You have a RIGHT to reclaim your citizenship unless you have made a complete mess of your life.

This seems to be the case in Australia too ... with the same "good character" clause in effect.

Which is eminently sensible. How much does it cost? I agree it shouldn't be too cheap but feel the UK is a bit too expensive.

[Yokohammer]

You have a RIGHT to reclaim your citizenship unless you have made a complete mess of your life.

This seems to be the case in Australia too ... with the same "good character" clause in effect.

Which is eminently sensible. How much does it cost? I agree it shouldn't be too cheap but feel the UK is a bit too expensive.

Looks to be A$70, according to the "Fees" list here (Form 132, Resuming Australian Citizenship):

http://www.citizenship.gov.au/applying/fees_forms_appeals/

[havill]

OK, but if you have been convicted of terrorism or other serious crime

Depends on your definition of "serious". (which was originally my word, my bad: Guilty of TL;DR -- didn't read the whole thing)

Reading further in the RS1's guidance regarding what it considers to be not " good character":

• failure to pay income tax,
• "road traffic offenses" (especially DUI),
• and even "non-custodial offenses" are counted if they are recent

. (↑pretty much the same definition of "good character" for Japanese naturalization, btw)

[Samurai_Jerk]

If I stay in Japan much longer, I'll seriously consider naturalizing. I would never give up an EU passport and probably not a Canadian, Australian, etc. one either but I don't see much of an advantage to being an American abroad.

[havill]

Additionally, other countries have other little "gotchas". For example, if you get rid of French citizenship then live in France (as a foreigner), then the supposed "you can never truly lose French citizenship" adage which I hear a lot of people say doesn't necessarily apply. Good character or not.

So, I'd rather be conservative with my advice than tell people "oh yeah, don't worry about making a life altering decision. You can always reverse it." and hear from the 1% who it turns out expected that "always" or "guaranteed" actually meant "always" / "guaranteed".

[Wage Slave]

OK, but if you have been convicted of terrorism or other serious crime

Depends on your definition of "serious". (which was originally my word, my bad: Guilty of TL;DR -- didn't read the whole thing)

Reading further in the RS1's guidance regarding what it considers to be not " good character":

• failure to pay income tax,
• "road traffic offenses" (especially DUI),
• and even "non-custodial offenses" are counted if they are recent

. (↑pretty much the same definition of "good character" for Japanese naturalization, btw)

OK, but be very clear that a few speeding fines are not going to matter in the UK. "good character" in Britspeak means not a crook, or complete fuckup and not a political or religious extremist. It isn't a term to fear and it is there simply as a get out clause so undesirables don't have to be given the same right. If you are not an undesirable, or have committed a serious crime you will get your right to recover your nationality. Promise.

Lucky old Aussies eh? Very cheap indeed. Do you only have a right to do it once and then after that at discretion like the UK?