Nick Baker Rally

[AssKissinger]

The Justice for Nick Baker people recently sent me this email.

You were kind enough to write to us expressing your concern at the Nick
Baker case.

As you may know, the annual Human Rights Day march, under the auspices
of
Amnesty International, will be held on December 7th in Shibuya, Tokyo.

The march usually attracts several hundred people and representatives
from various groups, including supporters for Govinda Manali will be
there.

We want Nick to be represented, and we desperately need your support!
If
you can, please go down to Shibuya's Miyashita Park for 13.00 Dec 7th.
The march begins at 13.30. The support group are preparing hand-outs
and
flyers. If you plan on bringing a placard/banner/slogan on clothing,
etc
- please clear the wording with us first. Since it is around lunch
time,
you may wish to bring some refreshments and snack/bento. Warm clothes
are
advised!

AI would like to know asap roughly how many people will be coming, so
please let us know soon if you can attend by mailing us at
contact@justicefornickbaker.org

Thanks and we look forward to seeing you on the 7th!


Regards,
The Justice for Nick Baker team. Tokyo HQ.

[NeoNecroNomiCron]

If you plan on bringing a placard/banner/slogan on clothing,
etc
- please clear the wording with us first

I think I am going crazy everything that an organization makes me angry lately. Does not Humans have the right for free speach.

I will put anything I bloody well want on a placard.

On a serious note; Nick Baker made a mistake and unfortunatly he will actualy have to pay for that mistake.

Everybody knows that you should not speed. But yet it is trivialised. Even I have speeded on occasion. I had a car crash that thought me a serious lesson. Fortunatly nobody was hurt, but even I have flashbacks, and the cost also served its lesson.

Everybody knows that you shouldnt carry bags for anybody else. Even I have some drougggy friends. Nick knew this guy for a while, and even nick was doing dodgy things(they were making antique trips). He knew this guy was a little shadey. He made the mistake, the punishment is hefty. But it does serve its purpose, and now travelers will be more cautious. I do think he dose not deserve the sentence. But it had to happen to somebody and at the same time I dont want it dismissed either. Its dismissal would open a door for prefessional smugglers.

Besides didnt he ever see the film "Dada is death"

[kamome]

[quote="NeoNecroNomiCron"]On a serious note]

I disagree. The Japanese system has screwed this guy for a mistake he made, and to add insult to injury, the judge refuses to listen to exonerating evidence on his behalf. You're being too absolutist here. Justice means that an accused is entitled to benefit from mitigating evidence, but this guy has been denied that benefit. A "should-have-known-so-he's-guilty" rationale for jailing this guy just ignores the reality of his situation.

[Steve Bildermann]

[NeoNecroNomiCron]

[NeoNecroNomiCron]

[Steve Bildermann]

Their should be a provision for new evidence but it will take a lot of work to get a retrial.

Yes. The only way to get new evidence in is at a re-trial.

Trouble is that his appeal is just that an appeal against conviction at the first trial not a complaint against the actual trial itself. It's now too late to switch.

The only course he could take would be to 'absent' his appeal and go straight to the Supreme court asking for a order to retry. If that gets turned down (and it such a roll of the dice I wouldn't even think of it unless I had my own dream team of lawyers on payroll) then it's GAME OVER. There is no other legal avenue to go. He could then only hope to be moved to the UK to serve his time.

[devicenull]

in most other countries, he wouldnt have gotten 14 years for the amount of drugs he attempted to bring in... in america he would have gotten much much longer than that, and in many countries it would have been an automatic death sentence. let the facts stand.. he was caught, he eventually confessed to it, odds are that he knew what he was doing. i see no reason to believe his little story, especially seeing as it is all circumstantial and without any real proof.

[cstaylor]

he eventually confessed to it

Steve, can you enlighten our little bit bucket on the wonders of dental surgery at the local koban?

[Big Booger]

YOu mean they beat confessions out of prisoners... gee golly Wally, I'd have never guessed.

Gee beave, you're such a dufus.

[jez]

As by japanese law he was tried fairly.

Don't you guys have a personal opinion, besides "it's the law"? Don't you believe in international human rights? That's what people like Amnesty International are fighting for. It is possible to change the law. I'm not commenting on whether or not he was guilty, stupid or whatever. I simply think people could think about whether the law is 'right'.
And the same goes for drugs. Drugs may be 'bad'(m'kay), but if you believe it's just a matter of the justice system against the smugglers/users, I think you need to think again. Think CIA and shady 'dictatorships' for example.

[devicenull]

he eventually confessed to it

Steve, can you enlighten our little bit bucket on the wonders of dental surgery at the local koban?

ok, sorry, i am completely wrong... i forgot that westerners have the right to ignore laws out of ignorance to them and because they dont speak the silly native language. it was obviously a misunderstanding and japanese officials should release him with compensation for prosecuting him the same way they would anyone else... obviously they forgot about his westerner status and were unfair. and they probably didnt even let him take tea time while being held against his will.

now THAT's how you build an effective strawman.. (lol, off to see the wizard for brains now..lol zombie strawman)


it's almost as if this is the thought process:
1. OMG OMG Japan has some cool shit and looks like it is as or more advanced than the rest of the developed world...
2. hmm, they have some silly laws, and they dont seem all that keen to listen to my suggestions... they should do things like we do at home, that makes more sense.
3. silly natives, they are ignorant of my perfect way of life, they need to change.
4. LOL comedy drug trafficing conviction option
5. ...
6. profit

DISCLAIMER: this is more or less a ranty pointless post, if you are unable to see past that and gasp in awe at the true underlying genious... (lol, im naked and lying down in bed still), then stare harder off into space.. try closing your eyes and then using your fingers to put pressure on your eyes while closing them tight to make spiffy geometric shapes if you focus on them.

[devicenull]

As by japanese law he was tried fairly.

Don't you guys have a personal opinion, besides "it's the law"? Don't you believe in international human rights? That's what people like Amnesty International are fighting for. It is possible to change the law. I'm not commenting on whether or not he was guilty, stupid or whatever. I simply think people could think about whether the law is 'right'.
And the same goes for drugs. Drugs may be 'bad'(m'kay), but if you believe it's just a matter of the justice system against the smugglers/users, I think you need to think again. Think CIA and shady 'dictatorships' for example.

no, it's the law, he has to respect it... japan is pretty straight forward about it's laws.. you do something, you are held responsible for it.. excuses dont seem to bear much weight.. esp if you are a non-citizen

[Steve Bildermann]

Don't you guys have a personal opinion, besides "it's the law"? Don't you believe in international human rights? That's what people like Amnesty International are fighting for. It is possible to change the law. I'm not commenting on whether or not he was guilty, stupid or whatever. I simply think people could think about whether the law is 'right'.

Can you be a bit more specific? In regard to Mr. Baker's case which 'law' do you think should be changed.

Believe me I'm not, in any way, defending the status quo, laws in Japan can be changed and often are. Sometimes the change is for the better but sometimes the change is for the worse - 'be careful what you wish for'

Also please remember unlike the US or Europe, in Japanese jurisprudence here is no avenue during trial to challenge the actual validity of the law. Once the prosecutors have charged you with a crime the court has no power to refuse the case because that particular law doesn't apply to your case. This sounds a little obscure but in the US you can be found guilty of a crime but be released because the jury thinks the law is wrong. Not so in Japan.

[jez]

It seems I was right. You don't see beyond "It's the law". It seems to me you believe judicial and political systems are separate and the latter doesn't influence the former. People/organisations like Amnesty put pressure on politicians/diplomats to change laws. In some countries it's legal to chop someone's head off. In others it's legal to poison criminals...those are laws in those countries. Does that mean we don't debate about 'moral' rights and wrongs?

[devicenull]

It seems I was right. You don't see beyond "It's the law". It seems to me you believe judicial and political systems are separate and the latter doesn't influence the former. People/organisations like Amnesty put pressure on politicians/diplomats to change laws. In some countries it's legal to chop someone's head off. In others it's legal to poison criminals...those are laws in those countries. Does that mean we don't debate about 'moral' rights and wrongs?

morals are all relative and those who rely on them are weak

[jez]

morals are all relative

Which is why debate is necessary.

and those who rely on them are weak

If you say so...

[devicenull]

morals are all relative

Which is why debate is necessary.

and those who rely on them are weak

If you say so...

my respect for people who cannot make judgements while removing their own cultural biases from the situation and look at it from an objective view = 0

[AssKissinger]

The Jets are talking about this over at Big Daikon.

Here's another related link http://www.phaseloop.com/foreignprisoners/prison-japan.html

To me the disturbing thing about Japan's legal system is that 95% of people who are accused are convicted. If a JPN can convince the police to come arrest you, for whatever reason, it's game over. In a case in Okinawa where an American serviceman was convicted of rape, the judge, when delivering his verdict said that no Japanese woman would consent to sex on the hood of a car in a parking lot. WTF kind of reasoning is that? Any nampa veteran will tell you that's wrong.

JPN prisons are systematically cruel and abusive but I still think American prisons are scarier.

[devicenull]

The Jets are talking about this over at Big Daikon.

Here's another related link http://www.phaseloop.com/foreignprisoners/prison-japan.html

To me the disturbing thing about Japan's legal system is that 95% of people who are accused are convicted. If a JPN can convince the police to come arrest you, for whatever reason, it's game over. In a case in Okinawa where an American serviceman was convicted of rape, the judge, when delivering his verdict said that no Japanese woman would consent to sex on the hood of a car in a parking lot. WTF kind of reasoning is that? Any nampa veteran will tell you that's wrong.

JPN prisons are systematically cruel and abusive but I still think American prisons are scarier.

i'm willing to bet that japanese prisons dont have a bubba :P

[jez]

morals are all relative

Which is why debate is necessary.

and those who rely on them are weak

If you say so...

my respect for people who cannot make judgements while removing their own cultural biases from the situation and look at it from an objective view = 0

My question is, then, if you remove cultural bias, what is left? What do you base your judgements on?

[devicenull]

My question is, then, if you remove cultural bias, what is left? What do you base your judgements on?

usually determined by my surroundings and personal thoughts on an issue. i usually tend to be rather objective to most situations. good question though... at times i cannot identify what precisely i am using to judge... but i usually remove myself and "my" culture* from the situation as much as possible.


*there is another thing that is an entirely seperate issue.. i have never really fit into this american society... i can play along with it, but it is more tolerance than anything else.

[jez]

usually determined by my surroundings and personal thoughts on an issue. i usually tend to be rather objective to most situations. good question though... at times i cannot identify what precisely i am using to judge... but i usually remove myself and "my" culture* from the situation as much as possible.

Your personal thoughts are based on your culture, aren't they?(even though you claim not to fit into US society-I am not a believer, but my culture is judeo-christian, I cannot escape that). Furthermore, in a global world, cultural differences become blurred. For example, it can sometimes be frustrating to hear japanese blaming what they see as 'western culture' for their woes, while at the same time praising the economic good fortunes of their country, good fortunes which are due to global trade/communication.
If we are to live together, in a global world, it seems to me we have to have common beliefs/morals. Not that this is easy.

[AssKissinger]

Hers's a new story on the Nick Baker saga from our friends at Japan Today.

Hit It Girls

Baker, 33, was sentenced by the Chiba District Court to 14 years in prison in June for trying to smuggle 41,120 tablets of ecstasy and 990 grams of cocaine into Narita Airport in April 2002

[GuyJean]

Baker, 33, was sentenced by the Chiba District Court to 14 years in prison in June for trying to smuggle 41,120 tablets of ecstasy and 990 grams of cocaine into Narita Airport in April 2002

Shit, man. Getting caught with that much is sure to drive up the price.

I don't know the whole background, but if his 'travelling buddy' was convicted of doing the same thing in another country (asking a friend to carry his bag with drugs through immigration), it seems like that evidence might be a critical factor in his case.

Do you realize that since the conviction rate for judges in Japan is 99.9%, that the Japanese police are essentially the acting judge 99.9% of the time?

So the drug-snortin', money-extortin', pedophilin' Kanagawa cops are wrong only .01% of the time.. Maybe I should change my ways..

GJ

[DUCK]

morals are all relative and those who rely on them are weak

Quack.

[Taro Toporific]

Here's a new story on the Nick Baker saga from our friends at Japan Today.Hit It Girls

Here's sort of good news in the Nick Baker saga....

-> Prisoner repatriation
Terrie's Take - General Edition Sunday, 4th April, 2004 Issue No. 273In the first prisoner transfer under a new international treaty, an British woman arrested for attempting to smuggle marijuana into Japan in 2002 will be allowed to serve out the rest of her sentence in her home country. The new law, which passed last June, allows the women to finish off the remaining 3 1/2 years of her 5 year sentence in the relative comfort of a UK prison.
***Ed: This provides hope to Nick Baker, imprisoned on a drug smuggling charge but who protests he is innocent. Furthermore, we hear that once prisoners are transferred, because sentences are typically more severe in Japan, some people will be able to quickly apply for probation and subsequent release.**

(Source: yahoo.com, Apr 2, 2004)
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/040402/ap/d81mlhcg9.html

[Steve Bildermann]

The drawback there is that, like the parole system, only 'inmates' who have admitted their crime are eligible. Mr. Baker will probably not be considered for this system.

[Taro Toporific]

morals are all relative and those who rely on them are weak

Quack.

Jailed Briton's appeal date set
--Nick Baker has had difficulty finding a new translator
Thursday, 20 May, 2004, 05:49 GMT 06:49 UKA Stroud man, convicted of drugs offences in Japan, has been given a new date for his appeal.
Nick Baker, 33, had his appeal against a 14-year sentence postponed recently because he could not find a translator.....

[devicenull]

LOLOLOLOLOLOL