Todai prof busted for creating P2P 'Winny'

[Taro Toporific]

Former Title:
J-police's make SECOND file-sharing bust!
Japanese police make first file-sharing arrests
Mainichi Shimbun, Nov 28
KYOTO -- Two people who used the file-sharing software "Winny" to offer movies and video game software to an unspecified number of people over the Internet have been arrested....

[Robato]

wouldnt you know, I remember someone flamming me and saying "IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO GET ARRESTED AND CHARGED IN JAPAN FOR BREAKING COPYRIGHT!!!"

Maybe my 3 college course in copyright were correct??? Thank god I paid for those classes and wont end up in jail in Japan for breaking the law.

Whats even better, it was an American movie that they got busted on.

I love "I told you so"

I just want to make a shout out to Bejita!!!!

[cstaylor]

Yeah, any program that lets you connect and download from a single source should be a trivial exercise for the police.

[Big Booger]

I feel sorry for them.


The Japan and International Motion Picture Copyright Association estimates the damage in this incident of "A Beautiful Mind" alone at about 230 million yen.

How do they estimate that? I think their estimation may be over-indulged!

[Taro Toporific]

I
How do they estimate that?

The "logic" seems to be covered here in Japanese. My brain gacked on reading the second paragraph of Japanese but...

http://www.accsjp.or.jp/news/031127.html

[bejiita]

"IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO GET ARRESTED AND CHARGED IN JAPAN FOR BREAKING COPYRIGHT!!!"...

I love "I told you so"

You told me what? That you're an idiot and still can't understand English? That would seem to be correct. If you want to re-read our little flame war, you would remember that I said the following:

I never said that no one has every been criminally prosecuted nor will not be criminally prosecuted in the future. I am simply stating prosecutors rarely charge people for criminal copyright infringement. Have they done so in the past? Of course. Will they do so in the future? Again, of course.

Really, I would think someone like you should be able to afford a dictionary to expand your vocabulary. And even if you can't afford one, there are plenty of free online versions.

Now if you actually bothered to read the article, you would have found this nice juicy nugget of information:

It is the first time police have arrested people for using file-sharing software....

Winny enables people to easily download movies, games and other software that is being shared by simply typing in part of a file name. The Tokyo-based Association of Copyright for Computer Software said that there were about 250,000 users as of September this year.

Now, let's see if you can do math too. It's easy 1+2=3. Now 2 / 250,000 = .0008% chance of being arrested. Hmmm, where are the other 249,998 arrests? This low arrest/conviction probability doesn't even include any of the other P2P software users. This low arrest/conviction is exactly what I I was stating happens in practice in our last thread. You're merely citing an article which supports my argument.

Maybe my 3 college course in copyright were correct??? Thank god I paid for those classes and wont end up in jail in Japan for breaking the law.

And you were accusing me of telling people to break the law, which I never did. Oh you won't end up in jail for breaking the law? Weren't you the one who stated in our last flame war:

Anyway, I still get my mp3s from newsgroups....Ive used newsgroups to get my movies, porn, mp3s, warez and everything else since 1994 and havent stopped.....its still the best way....you post a request and the next day someone posted it for you. (proxie servers and software stripping headers will always keep big brother out of your business when it comes to newsgroups)

Last I knew, warez was illegal software. Additionally, a lot of your admitted activities sound illegal to me. Maybe I should be reporting your IP address to the kenjikyoku, hmm? And you do know that everytime you post, your IP address gets logged don't you?

Finally, if I were you, I would stop shouting because it seems to seriously impede your cognitive functions. You need to preserve what little grey matter you have because you definitely need it. Don't even bother replying. I'm done. I'm not a bully that likes to beat up on the "mentally challenged." Oh, if you don't know what mentally challenged means, go here. Now that's a good boy.

[Robato]

you can make person attack all you want, I quoted and answered the bullshit wrong information you said before in the very same thread
http://www.fuckedgaijin.com/forums/showthread.php?p=35195#post35195

Its funny how pissed a "lawyer" can get when they are absolute wrong about the law.

Last I knew, warez was illegal software. Additionally, a lot of your admitted activities sound illegal to me. Maybe I should be reporting your IP address to the kenjikyoku, hmm? And you do know that everytime you post, your IP address gets logged don't you?.

Yep thats why I use a proxy dipshit. Besides, I wasnt claiming to be a lawyer giving legal advice. Besides, you retard, what is the kenjikyoku going to do to me even if this ip WAS my ip? I still have freedom of speech...or does your legal power and education say otherwise? Are you giving me legal advice that I can be arrested just for saying I downloaded warez before? LOL

You have me scared shitless now

[bejiita]

I'm sorry everyone. I vowed not to reply, but when someone offers me a gun and I see fish swimming around in a barrel, what can I do.

Yep thats why I use a proxy

Are you that brain-dead to not know how a proxy works? Just because the proxy owner vows not to record your IP address doesn't mean that the proxy owner can't be forced to by a court order. For example, if LE shows a court order to FG to reveal your IP address, they track down which proxy your IP address originates from. They then get another court order to force this proxy server to reveal the originating IP address. Then you're hoping the prison guards don't dance on your face too much.

Additionally, some anonymousy servers voluntarily turn over IP information when their services are being used for criminal activities.

Good luck handling that bar of soap.

[Taro Toporific]

[Big Booger]

I think piracy is high because the price is too high for the goods.. I also think that the slumping economy has a huge effect on whether people are willing to dole out their hard earned for music, movies and software...

Not to say that gives anyone the excuse to download freely... it's just that the music companies, BSA, MPAA et al tend to throw all the blame on P2P for their slumping sales, when in reality, even without P2P I think their sales would still be hurt because of the economic conditions of the global market.

[Robato]

Are you that brain-dead to not know how a proxy works?

Nope not at all....yet I fail to realize how I would end up in prison for stating that I have downloaded warez before on a little messege board called "fucked gaijin"

You are really as retarded as your copyright advice.

I dont fear your empty threats. Call the damn police and give them my ip and say "he said he downloaded warez before"....maybe I have and maybe I havent. Maybe I have warez on this laptop that I use in Japan and maybe I dont. Maybe I have all the warez on my pc back in the states, or on cds burned that are in the states....and maybe I dont have any at all because I was lying. Maybe you dont know shit about the law and you are not a lawyer either.

Have a nice day changing the subject that you were wrong and people do get caught and prosicuted.

[Andocrates]

We are still in the middle of entering the digital age. The record companies and movie producers just don't get it yet. Nothing can be done to stop it, no more then you could have stopped the bronze age. It's the course of humanity.

The record companies will adapt of disappear. Their music and movies suck anyway. Music can't be based on how pretty the artist is. What kind of crap is that. Watch BET and count how many female artists are light skinned - that isn't an accident.

Rap, love it or hate it, mostly circumvented the large record companies (up until recently anyway) and flourished. Media companies are not meeting the needs of their customers and the customers have rebelled in the form of P2P networks.

I would pay to download the movies and TV shows I want to see provided they were reasonable priced and didn't self destruct or some such nonsense. As for music since I like techno/dance I prefer to buy the whole mix on CD. I think if you check you'll see techno/house/electronic artists sales were nearly unaffected by the napster thing. Techno/house artists adapted by being part of the digital age not opposing it.

[String]

They aren't providing what the public wants, true, and they're also overcharging like crazy. In the US it's around $20 for a CD. Independent artists can make a tidy profit selling their CD's for about $9 each if they are popular enough to sell. Record companies have been screwing their customers for long enough; now they're just getting what they had coming to them.

[Robato]

I think of the record companies as advertisement agencies and stock investors. They dump millions of dollars in the artists recording, advertisement, videos. Then they get their compensation from taking $10 for each cd sale.

The artists arent screwed because they make 100% of the concert income....and at $80 a ticket with 10,000 seats per night...that aint too bad.

The customer isnt screwed because you get what you pay for. Its simple supply and demand.

I am sure at least 95% of the people in the world would still get their FREE mp3s even if the record companies dropped their cd costs to 50 cents. Free is always better than pay.

[devicenull]

meh, the RIAA is good as dead. they missed the wave of new tech and have been left behind. maybe if they led the scene and offered cheap downloads of good music at a high quality in the beginning, they wouldnt be in as deep of shit as they are now. people have gotten used to not paying anything for music... they will never go back to paying now.

the movie industry is doing a better job... but why it is illegal to download tv shows, i will never know.

[Big Booger]

Nullified,
You are spot on. I think the movie industry should pick up on where the music industry screwed up. Like debuting movies over the internet, while at the same time showing them in theaters. I will go to the theater if the movie is good enough, but if not, I usually wait for it to come out on video or TV...

If they offered movies for download I would pay. In fact, in the UK they pioneered this, but it was screwed because of OVER-DEMAND! Their servers took a big dive after being overloaded with users.

Internet TV should've been mainstream last year... Cable companies are a'screaming.. because they will loose large amounts of revenue... that is why your favorite TV shows are not available legally on the net for streaming or download...

And then they want to tie the farking media to a single computer... I think that is too restrictive and obtuse. If I pay for it, I want to watch it on whatever device I own... Every attempt at anti-piracy has failed... so if they'd get smart, make the content cheap, provide a convenient and extremely fast way to serve up the files, it is a no brainer...

But alas they are too ignorant to provide content at a price and in a way that customers would find tempting.. They totally ignore Joe Blow.. and that is why P2P is so popular, IMHO.

[GomiGirl]

BB - you are correct up to a point.. there are some people in this world who will try to steal content no matter what the price.. cheap or not.

Even free content is "stolen" in terms of copyright infringements and then this content is used by others to make money.. our own GuyJean had an incident where his stuff was ripped off and relabled as somebody else's content without any credit given back to his site. It has happened to me more times than I care to think about.

This just the darker side of human nature.. it is what you can get away with.

[String]

I think of the record companies as advertisement agencies and stock investors. They dump millions of dollars in the artists recording, advertisement, videos. Then they get their compensation from taking $10 for each cd sale.

The artists arent screwed because they make 100% of the concert income....and at $80 a ticket with 10,000 seats per night...that aint too bad.

The customer isnt screwed because you get what you pay for. Its simple supply and demand.

I am sure at least 95% of the people in the world would still get their FREE mp3s even if the record companies dropped their cd costs to 50 cents. Free is always better than pay.

It's a bit ridiculous to pay $10, half of the cost, just for having been notified of the CDs existence. The customer isn't getting screwed, he's getting bent over the table and violently reamed.

Artists are getting screwed also. Not the pop stars, many of whom are mediocre at best, but rather those with real talent that don't get a chance because the record companies have created a system in which it is nearly impossible to make it without their help.

The high prices lately have more to do with the price fixing that the record companies do than supply and demand. Supply and demand doesn't enter in the equation unless the artist is so horrible that the record store has to lower prices to sell the copies it has.

[Big Booger]

BB - you are correct up to a point.. there are some people in this world who will try to steal content no matter what the price.. cheap or not.

Even free content is "stolen" in terms of copyright infringements and then this content is used by others to make money.. our own GuyJean had an incident where his stuff was ripped off and relabled as somebody else's content without any credit given back to his site. It has happened to me more times than I care to think about.

This just the darker side of human nature.. it is what you can get away with.

So true. Thieves will still the pennies off a dead mans eye if they could.. I would think though that P2P would taper off if the price were reduced to a reasonable price like apples 99 cents per song...

Especially if you could download at 600KB-7MBits/sec and know that the song you are downloading is 100% legit, no virii.. not a fake, not a looped song, not a homegrown recording, or any of that crap.. but a real legit, high quality song that comes with no strings attached.

I would pay for a song that met that requirement. Piracy cannot be eliminated, no matter how hard you push.. in fact I think it makes it worse. Despite their claims that people have slowed down or whatnot...

[Andocrates]

I think of the record companies as advertisement agencies and stock investors. They dump millions of dollars in the artists recording, advertisement, videos. Then they get their compensation from taking $10 for each cd sale.

It would be understandable if the record companies did that, but they do not pay to promote new artists - that concept died in the seventies. Today the artist pays for all promotion. Before said artist gets the first $ all the promotion expenses have to be repaid. Thus you get famous artists with songs you know who were never paid a dime and are in debt to the record company.[/quote]

[AssKissinger]

Very good point Andy. The way the record labels have it set up now the big wig corporate cunts exploit everybody. Now-a-days when a band signs a record label, the label offers nothing of monetary worth to the band. Like Andy says, the bands pay for their own promotion. And at wildly inflated prices. The label provides studio time but they charge the band outrageous rental fees and the 'contract' is really just a bullshit way to sell the studio time for super high fees leaving all but the most successful bands (1 in a 1,000,000) totally fucked in debt. The same goes for the new equipment they 'give' you and so on. Even the bands that 'make it' still end-up paying inflated prices. But on top of that, even after you pay super high prices for all that crap and end-up totally fucked in debt the label will refuse to put out your music unless it sounds exactly like what they have in mind. They even exploit big stars with their control freak tactics. Sinead O'Connor, for example, had to fight for years to make her album, Sean-Nos-Nua, of traditional Irish music. She had to put it out herself even though she's made millions of dollars for her label. When Neil Young changed labels his new label tried to sue him for sounding too much like himself! U2's label sued and basically destroyed SST, the greatest record label of all time and one of the only ethical ones. Started by Black Flag mastermind, Greg Ginn, and bringing to the world such great bands as the Meat Puppets, Sonic Youth, Husker Du and Dinosaur. Here's a link to an article by Steve Albini. Albini is the founder of Big Black, one of the most important post punk bands in rock'n'roll history. They were the first rock band to use a drum machine effectively. Albini is most famous for producing Nirvana.

FUCKED

Whenever I talk to a band who are about to sign with a major label, I always end up thinking of them in a particular context. I imagine a trench, about four feet wide and five feet deep, maybe sixty yards long, filled with runny, decaying shit. I imagine these people, some of them good friends, some of them barely acquaintances, at one end of this trench. I also imagine a faceless industry lackey at the other end holding a fountain pen and a contract waiting to be signed. Nobody can see what's printed on the contract. It's too far away, and besides, the shit stench is making everybody's eyes water. The lackey shouts to everybody that the first one to swim the trench gets to sign the contract. Everybody dives in the trench and they struggle furiously to get to the other end. Two people arrive simultaneously and begin wrestling furiously, clawing each other and dunking each other under the shit. Eventually, one of them capitulates, and there's only one contestant left. He reaches for the pen, but the Lackey says "Actually, I think you need a little more development. Swim again, please. Backstroke. And he does of course

Also, the labels keep popular music stagnated by forcing restraints on the artist thereby hurting a serious music fan like me. The mark up on CDs is astronomical, even years after the artist has passed away. They sit on music that rightfully belongs to the public like Jimi Hendrix's Live at Winterland. So, I think I remember that it's against Fucked Gaijin rules to advocate using illegal file sharing programs so I won't do that. But I will say this, I do advocate going to these big corporate cocksuck record chains like Tower. Find the the CD you want and shoplift. Hey, a big store like that'll never miss it!

[Caustic Saint]

FUCKED

Glad you posted that one, AK. Saved me from digging for the link.

Also, the labels keep popular music stagnated by forcing restraints on the artist thereby hurting a serious music fan like me. The mark up on CDs is astronomical, even years after the artist has passed away. They sit on music that rightfully belongs to the public like Jimi Hendrix's Live at Winterland. So, I think I remember that it's against Fucked Gaijin rules to advocate using illegal file sharing programs so I won't do that. But I will say this, I do advocate going to these big corporate cocksuck record chains like Tower. Find the the CD you want and shoplift. Hey, a big store like that'll never miss it!

I honestly can't remember the last time I paid full US price for a CD. I had a BMG membership a few years ago, but that averaged out to be about $3-4 per CD if you cancelled right after buying the one CD "at full price."

I've bought 4 CDs in the last 3 months since coming back to Korea, but only because they're cheaper here. New, legal CDs go for about $9-11 dollars here. Even double-CD set like the Matrix Reloaded soundtrack (worth the price for the second disc, which is just the score).

I was going to make my first iTunes Music Store purchase last week, but the CD I wanted (the new Blink 182 disc) had one track missing off the explicit version. You could buy the clean album for $9.99, but the unedited one had one track (out of 15) left off, so it'd cost $14 to buy the individual tracks they did have. Hmmm, pay $4 more to get one less track of the version of the album I want? Sorry, don't think so.

I may still use iTMS in the future, but not if they pull another move like that on something I want.

[Robato]

It's a bit ridiculous to pay $10, half of the cost, just for having been notified of the CDs existence. The customer isn't getting screwed, he's getting bent over the table and violently reamed.

You are trying to justify the price but you can not until you are the on investing millions upon millions side of the table. (It is a business after all, as I said they are like stock investors) For every hundred artists the investors (record companies) dump their money into, one or two come up with a hit and sell enough records for them to make money back on the money they lost on other people. You drop the price of the cd to the point where the investor is losing money on artists that DONT sell and not making enough on the artists that do.....they will end up putting their money in something else. (then no artist has cds)

Regardless of how much people steal....they still need the record companies to make the cds to rip....the artists still need them to let the theifs know that they exist. The record companies are needed...and the people making $10 a cd need that money to compensate the BAD investments of other artists that you may like (yet dont sell enough records to make anyone money)

Artists are getting screwed also. Not the pop stars, many of whom are mediocre at best, but rather those with real talent that don't get a chance because the record companies have created a system in which it is nearly impossible to make it without their help.

Dream theater is one of my favorite bands (one of the bad investments for record companies...which is why I am glad they charge $20 for a britney spears album or dream theater wouldnt have cds)....They are on a major label, yet do shit on album sales...they do however sell out stadiums for die hard fans. I disagree with you on this statement due to my favorite artists
allen holdworth
dream theater
king crimson
frank zappa (own label and own record company...famous as shit...was very rich)
steve vai (wins grammys, rich as shit, famous...owns label and record company http://www.favorednations.com )

You dont have to be on a major label and can still be famous and rich....the people that choose to be on one, choose to be on one. (for the perks) You choose to buy the records from them (or at least choose to steal the music made by them....which you still need them around for that at least)

The high prices lately have more to do with the price fixing that the record companies do than supply and demand. Supply and demand doesn't enter in the equation unless the artist is so horrible that the record store has to lower prices to sell the copies it has.

Which goes back to the record companies being an investor. They are trying to make back the millions they dumped in that "artist so horrible that the record store has to lower the prices to sell"

which in my view is bullshit too....when was the last time you went into a record store and said "hey this artist is complete utter shit!! I fucking hate his music, but at least its only $9, Im gunna buy it"

Anyway, I am not justifying the price...I can just see why they are so expensive. If the record companies dropped tomorrow, I wouldnt care a bit, most of the artist I listen to are either totally independent or are dead and are not making new music.

[Robato]

Whenever I talk to a band who are about to sign with a major label, I always end up thinking of them in a particular context. I imagine a trench, about four feet wide and five feet deep, maybe sixty yards long, filled with runny, decaying shit. I imagine these people, some of them good friends, some of them barely acquaintances, at one end of this trench. I also imagine a faceless industry lackey at the other end holding a fountain pen and a contract waiting to be signed. Nobody can see what's printed on the contract. It's too far away, and besides, the shit stench is making everybody's eyes water. The lackey shouts to everybody that the first one to swim the trench gets to sign the contract. Everybody dives in the trench and they struggle furiously to get to the other end. Two people arrive simultaneously and begin wrestling furiously, clawing each other and dunking each other under the shit. Eventually, one of them capitulates, and there's only one contestant left. He reaches for the pen, but the Lackey says "Actually, I think you need a little more development. Swim again, please. Backstroke. And he does of course

You are right that they tell them swim again....the record company is fronting the bill. I wouldnt want to dump millions in somone to find out their album doesnt sell shit.

You are right that they make the artist pay it back....when the artist is making $80 a ticket on 10,000 ro 20,000 seats a night. Tom Petty went bankrupt due to the process of not wanting to pay the record companies back....so the record companies froze his account and barred him from playing live until he payed them back.

Nothing you have said changes the fact that someone invested in them first. You cant collect those "inlfated prices" on 10,000 failures. There are far more briteny spears wanna be albums out there than there are true britiny spears selling albums. So what if the record company takes $10 profit off of each one of her albums....she makes $10 million a night on other things such as pepsi commercials, tshirts, photo sessions, playing live and god knows what else.

Also, the labels keep popular music stagnated by forcing restraints on the artist thereby hurting a serious music fan like me.

Doesnt hurt me, I find what I want without hunting. Then again maybe I am not a serious a music fan since I have only played guitar for 18 years of my 26 years of life....my father builds guitars for a living and I minored in jazz when I went to college.

The mark up on CDs is astronomical, even years after the artist has passed away. They sit on music that rightfully belongs to the public like Jimi Hendrix's Live at Winterland.

The owner holds the rights to a copyright work for 70 years after their death. Which means Jimis parents, children or siblings along with the record company can do what they please with his work. It is not public domain.

So, I think I remember that it's against Fucked Gaijin rules to advocate using illegal file sharing programs so I won't do that. But I will say this, I do advocate going to these big corporate cocksuck record chains like Tower. Find the the CD you want and shoplift. Hey, a big store like that'll never miss it!

no but maybe the guy who owns that chain will....franchises are owned by regular business folk like you and I. Just because pepsi makes millions doesnt mean you should steal softdrinks from my famly market.

Either way, I still stand on my statement that the record company is just an advetiser and investor for musicians. Its a shame that people have to justify stealing their profits because they "charge too much"...I never ever ever heard anyone bitch about that in the 80s. Like I said, people would steal these loved songs "from stale stagnent shitty music" anyway even if the albums cost 50 cents.....because 50 cents is still more than free.

[kami gaijin]

I don't necessarily condone piracy, but I often feel as though I'm driven to it. Especially if, like me, you enjoy older music that record companies no longer produce. As for the newer music, I have to agree that most of the mainstream stuffs blows and the real artists are strong-armed off to the side by greedy corperations. And if you want any proof of that, just look at the history of Trent Reznor and NIN.

[oyajikun]

2 types of people:
Those who download music/files and those who fib by saying they don't

[Robato]

2 types of people:
Those who download music/files and those who fib by saying they don't

I wouldn't disagree with this....but there is a 3rd kind. Those who download and make excuses as to why they are righteous for stealing.

[oyajikun]

2 types of people:
Those who download music/files and those who fib by saying they don't

I wouldn't disagree with this....but there is a 3rd kind. Those who download and make excuses as to why they are righteous for stealing.

Thats an easy one. Because I am clever enough to.. then again if I was really clever I would be a millionaire and I would just buy whatever I wanted to listen to/play with. Wow, I feel very American for having said that!

[devicenull]

2 types of people:
Those who download music/files and those who fib by saying they don't

I wouldn't disagree with this....but there is a 3rd kind. Those who download and make excuses as to why they are righteous for stealing.

hmm, what about my kind?

the kind that normally wouldnt buy anything anyways, but as long as it is available for free he will continue to download whatever he wants?

[NeoNecroNomiCron]

2 types of people:
Those who download music/files and those who fib by saying they don't

I wouldn't disagree with this....but there is a 3rd kind. Those who download and make excuses as to why they are righteous for stealing.

hmm, what about my kind?

the kind that normally wouldnt buy anything anyways, but as long as it is available for free he will continue to download whatever he wants?

You are the same as my kind he he. I have only bought one CD in my life and that was an eminem single. After that nothing. But i do go ot the cinema all the time. I think if you go to the cinema you should get a free copy of the film you watched. on DVD after all you paid the rights to what you watched. Also DVD's should contain the sonundtrack to the movie for free, yes that right for free.