12 dead in Paris shooting

[Samurai_Jerk]

At Least 12 Dead In Shooting At Satirical Publication's Office In Paris

At least 12 people were killed during a shooting at the headquarters of the satirical Charlie Hebdo weekly in Paris, police say.

Speaking to reporters at the scene, President François Hollande said this was a "terrorist operation" in which journalists were "cowardly assassinated."

"France today faced a shock," Hollande said, according to a BBC interpreter. "Today I'm thinking about the victims."

France 24 reports that the incident began when two gunmen opened fire on the offices before fleeing. France has beefed up its security posture, which Hollande said would help them apprehend those who perpetrated the attack.

Charlie Hebdo is a magazine that's faced threats over its content in the past. Back in 2011, the weekly printed a drawing of the Prophet Muhammad. Afterward, its offices were destroyed in a petrol bomb attack.

[Coligny]

2 cops and Wolinsky, Cabu, Charb, Tignous...

They'd better pass the border before anyone get their hands on them.

image.jpg

[Yokohammer]

I know it's wrong, and two wrongs don't make a right, but bring back public guillotine executions? Just this once? I can't see how these murderous fuckers deserve anything better.

[Yokohammer]

B6xtcfVCYAAbq_V.jpg-large.jpeg

[Russell]

Why do I get the feeling that this is a False Flag operation?

[Yokohammer]

Why do I get the feeling that this is a False Flag operation?

They killed a bunch of cartoonists at a satirical magazine. The cops were incidental. I can't see what value that would have to anyone other than a bunch of addle-brained religious fanatics who were offended by some perceived slight against their prophet. Maybe there are connections within connections that I'm not seeing, but it just looks like more Islamofascist thuggery to me.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Why do I get the feeling that this is a False Flag operation?

Alex Jones fan?

[Russell]

Why do I get the feeling that this is a False Flag operation?

They killed a bunch of cartoonists at a satirical magazine. The cops were incidental. I can't see what value that would have to anyone other than a bunch of addle-brained religious fanatics who were offended by some perceived slight against their prophet. Maybe there are connections within connections that I'm not seeing, but it just looks like more Islamofascist thuggery to me.

There are certain countries that prefer the western world to be anti-Islam.

I find it a bit suspicious that:

1. The guys had military training,
2. The guys went around shouting that they were from Al Qaeda in Yemen,
3. One of the guys dropped his ID card.

But let's see whether they kill the suspects right away, without giving them a chance to surrender and fight the suspicions against them.

I have not a favorable opinion about Islam, and that started already with the Salman Rushdie affair in the '80s when it was non-PC to be against those esoteric religions, but I just hate to be manipulated into thinking one way or the other, prompted by events that may have been set up or not.

[Russell]

Why do I get the feeling that this is a False Flag operation?

Alex Jones fan?

Nope. Leave this idiot out of this discussion.

[Yokohammer]

There are certain countries that prefer the western world to be anti-Islam.

Sure, but would such countries resort to murdering cartoonists to push their agenda? There's a good chance that the murderers will be caught. If they are caught and there is some conspiracy behind the attack, then there's also a chance that it'll be exposed. Who'd take the risk?

[Coligny]

Why do I get the feeling that this is a False Flag operation?

because you don't have enough contextual info.

1- France is not seeing its first wave of death by terrorism. Summer 95 was basically subway's'splosion year, they took out most of the Line B station few weeks appart. We usually don't go in batshit lock down after that. 9/11 GW was running away in Air Force one, yesterday 1 hour later Hollande was at ground zero.

2- The target... Not the first time they are attacked, and a symbol of irrevential anarchy shitting on every public figure's carpet (shortened description). There is still the "canard enchainé" (shackled duck) in the exact same category, they will have to draw more of Hollande have a small dick cartoon to pick up the loss in peepee part satyre though. And these guys have decades of training in the art of never shuting the fuck up especially when they are told to do so. I'm borderline surprised they allowed for police protection at their office. The point here is, attacking a satirical newspaper will not allow for a big governemental response. The editors would be the first to tell the police to go back harrassing whoever they feel it's their duty to do so.

3- If you want a false flag in France, as something allowing for high level of authoritative response, you pretend to attack a nukular powerplant, a highspeed rail line, the eiffel tower. You go for big vanity symbols. Not for aging cartoonist famous for their enema jokes. The guys that escaped the killing didn't go to the meeting because -texto- one of them don't like meeting so he never goes, the other one because he'll bring some cake next week for "galette des rois" sso called in sick that day. This weekly editorial meeting was described as mostly just a good reasonto get drunk early on wednesday.

What they did is the equivalent of shooting Mr Rogers, Hulk Hogan and Jay Leno.

[matsuki]

I have not a favorable opinion about religion

FTFY

[Wage Slave]

then there's also a chance that it'll be exposed. Who'd take the risk?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Mahmoud_Al-Mabhouh

But in this case I doubt it. There is disinformation certainly but my impression is it is more like an ISIS operation. Hope they are caught quickly and given exemplary punishment. Also hope ISIS can be destroyed - one way or another - no holds barred.

[Russell]

There are certain countries that prefer the western world to be anti-Islam.

Sure, but would such countries resort to murdering cartoonists to push their agenda? There's a good chance that the murderers will be caught. If they are caught and there is some conspiracy behind the attack, then there's also a chance that it'll be exposed. Who'd take the risk?

Yes, it would not surprise me if some countries resort to murder to achieve their political goals. It has happened before.

Let's see whether the suspects (note: my use of words) are caught or killed right away. Killing them may make it easier to sweep things under the carpet.

Anyway, I tend to keep a critical attitude in this type of crimes.

[Russell]

Why do I get the feeling that this is a False Flag operation?

because you don't have enough contextual info.

1- France is not seeing its first wave of death by terrorism. Summer 95 was basically subway's'splosion year, they took out most of the Line B station few weeks appart. We usually don't go in batshit lock down after that. 9/11 GW was running away in Air Force one, yesterday 1 hour later Hollande was at ground zero.

2- The target... Not the first time they are attacked, and a symbol of irrevential anarchy shitting on every public figure's carpet (shortened description). There is still the "canard enchainé" (shackled duck) in the exact same category, they will have to draw more of Hollande have a small dick cartoon to pick up the loss in peepee part satyre though. And these guys have decades of training in the art of never shuting the fuck up especially when they are told to do so. I'm borderline surprised they allowed for police protection at their office. The point here is, attacking a satirical newspaper will not allow for a big governemental response. The editors would be the first to tell the police to go back harrassing whoever they feel it's their duty to do so.

3- If you want a false flag in France, as something allowing for high level of authoritative response, you pretend to attack a nukular powerplant, a highspeed rail line, the eiffel tower. You go for big vanity symbols. Not for aging cartoonist famous for their enema jokes. The guys that escaped the killing didn't go to the meeting because -texto- one of them don't like meeting so he never goes, the other one because he'll bring some cake next week for "galette des rois" sso called in sick that day. This weekly editorial meeting was described as mostly just a good reasonto get drunk early on wednesday.

What they did is the equivalent of shooting Mr Rogers, Hulk Hogan and Jay Leno.

Coligny, your arguments make no sense.

1. Hollande being on the scene within 1 hour proves exactly nothing one way or the other.

2 and 3. The targets are actually chosen very well. Soft targets, so perfect to get people emotional about it.

[Russell]

I have not a favorable opinion about religion

FTFY

Yep, but Islam has a special (negative) place in my heart...

[Coligny]

There are certain countries that prefer the western world to be anti-Islam.

I find it a bit suspicious that:

1. The guys had military training,
2. The guys went around shouting that they were from Al Qaeda in Yemen,
3. One of the guys dropped his ID card.

But let's see whether they kill the suspects right away, without giving them a chance to surrender and fight the suspicions against them.

.

Don't worry, there is a plenty antimooslim hate in France already. You didn't follow the incredible score of Marine LePen at the european election it seems.
If you were to follow the news you would have picked up the increasing number of european going to be trained in isis camps, which make their tactic and use of AK47 quite unsurprising.

The few details that might ring extremely wrong are the fact they were driving around in full tactical gear.
And the choice of the car. This one makes no sense. A brand new traceable Citroen C3 (equivalent to a big Honda fit). A paneled van would have made more sense for the ingress. And traditionally for robbery or situation were you plan to get away alive the defacto choice is a stollen Audi Quattro / Avant because of their power and stability.

The guys shooted 'we avenged the prophet' and 'allah ouackbar'

I didn't see any report of the ID card thing since before the hunt headed to Reims no data on them was known, they even picked up a lost snicker before leaving, which would have made leaving an ID card behind highly suspicious, no amateur video show this id card loss or recovery. And judging by their training and behaviour you can bet your cheezeburger money they didn't have any visit card with them. They didn't have the whole 'suicide bomber' profile.

[Russell]

then there's also a chance that it'll be exposed. Who'd take the risk?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Mahmoud_Al-Mabhouh

But in this case I doubt it. There is disinformation certainly but my impression is it is more like an ISIS operation. Hope they are caught quickly and given exemplary punishment. Also hope ISIS can be destroyed - one way or another - no holds barred.

Wage Slave, yes, that makes sense: it could be an ISIS operation. That would explain why that apparently had some military training. But did those guys actually go to the Middle East to be trained? And what's with the homeless guy?

[Russell]

There are certain countries that prefer the western world to be anti-Islam.

I find it a bit suspicious that:

1. The guys had military training,
2. The guys went around shouting that they were from Al Qaeda in Yemen,
3. One of the guys dropped his ID card.

But let's see whether they kill the suspects right away, without giving them a chance to surrender and fight the suspicions against them.

.

Don't worry, there is a plenty antimooslim hate in France already. You didn't follow the incredible score of Marine LePen at the european election it seems.
If you were to follow the news you would have picked up the increasing number of european going to be trained in isis camps, which make their tactic and use of AK47 quite unsurprising.

The few details that might ring extremely wrong are the fact they were driving around in full tactical gear.
And the choice of the car. This one makes no sense. A brand new traceable Citroen C3 (equivalent to a big Honda fit). A paneled van would have made more sense for the ingress. And traditionally for robbery or situation were you plan to get away alive the defacto choice is a stollen Audi Quattro / Avant because of their power and stability.

The guys shooted 'we avenged the prophet' and 'allah ouackbar'

I didn't see any report of the ID card thing since before the hunt headed to Reims no data on them was known, they even picked up a lost snicker before leaving, which would have made leaving an ID card behind highly suspicious, no amateur video show this id card loss or recovery. And judging by their training and behaviour you can bet your cheezeburger money they didn't have any visit card with them. They didn't have the whole 'suicide bomber' profile.

These are unverified reports. Accompanied by a pic of the card...

[Russell]

One terror suspect surrenders

One of the suspected gunmen behind the terror attack on French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo has reportedly handed himself in to police.

Teenager Hamyd Mourad is said to have surrendered after seeing his name circulated on social media in connection with the terrorist attack.

The 18-year-old, reportedly from Reims, is understood to be in police custody.

Thousands of police officers are still searching for French-Algerian brothers Saïd and Cherif Kouachi, aged 32 and 34, who are said to be from the Paris region.

Police have issued arrest warrants for the pair who are described as "armed and dangerous".

They reportedly came back from Syria this summer.

Counter-terror police launched a raid on a property in Reims late on Wednesday night following the shocking attack.

Pictures emerged on social media of French commandos preparing to enter a property.

The suspects identity cards, which were allegedly left behind in a getaway car following the deadly attack, have been widely circulated.

A huge manhunt is underway in the area of Reim after the terrorist attack took place at the office of Charlie Hebdo, with the magazine's editor, three cartoonists and two police officers believed to be among the 12 victims shot dead by masked attackers.

Twenty people are believed to be injured, with four critical, and up to 40 more taken to safety.

Police raided two apartments in the north western suburbs of Paris this afternoon, one at 4.30pm in Seine-Saint-Denis and another in Gennevilliers, in the Hauts-de-Seine region, according to the Telegraph.

No one was arrested but the hunt continues in Reims.

Security services are on highest alert after France suffered its deadliest terror attack in 20 years.

More than 3,000 police officers are now believed to be hunting the gunmen, according to reports in France.

One of the alleged gunmen was heard shouting "Allahu Akbar" ("God is greatest", in Arabic) in a video of the shooting.

[...]

Cedric Le Bechec, a 33-year-old estate agent who witnessed the attack, said that before launching the assault, the attackers approached a man in the street, saying: “Tell the media that this is al-Qaeda in the Yemen.”

Corrine Rey, a young mother and cartoonist who survived the massacre, said the men "spoke French perfectly" and claimed they were "Al-Qaeda terrorists".

More

Interested to know how long the guy will survive...

[Coligny]

Coligny, your arguments make no sense.

1. Hollande being on the scene within 1 hour proves exactly nothing one way or the other.

2 and 3. The targets are actually chosen very well. Soft targets, so perfect to get people emotional about it.

1- not afraid. Terrorism is aboot terror, spreading fear. If when you blow a newspaper the answer is printing even more and basically saying "come at me bro!" You mostly failed. (And congrats for ignoring 80% of my argument on this line)

2-3 Soft target ? Sure people get emotional about it, but not necessarily irrational. They were killed because of their jobs and attitude of not giving a fuck who they rubbed the wrong way. Killing them don't allow for governement lock down or post 911 bullshit, as for raising the antimuslim 'feeling' then that would be a gigantic screw up, not two hours after the attack the angle was 90% focus on an attack against freedom of expression, without much care who was the enemy -this time-. The main line was censorship will not be tolerated. Not "them mooslims wants our freedum". Even Marine LePen who would have benefited the most from rising up to the camera and pointing finger decided to shut the fuck up and not comment until friday/saturday.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I find it a bit suspicious that:

1. The guys had military training,
2. The guys went around shouting that they were from Al Qaeda in Yemen,
3. One of the guys dropped his ID card.

The military training seems the least suspicious to me. It's well knows that Islamic militants from the West like to do boot camp holidays in places like Syria and Pakistan. Besides, just because someone is a Muslim terrorist doesn't mean they weren't in their country's military.

Terrorist groups often like to claim responsibility so telling someone who they work for doesn't seem the strange. How else will people know who to be afraid of?

The last one does seem a little strange. Especially with the more recent report you posted that both ID's were left behind in the getaway car. However, it's not quite a smoking gun and I can think of plenty of explanations.

[kagemusha]

There are certain countries that prefer the western world to be anti-Islam.

I find it a bit suspicious that:

1. The guys had military training,
2. The guys went around shouting that they were from Al Qaeda in Yemen,
3. One of the guys dropped his ID card.

But let's see whether they kill the suspects right away, without giving them a chance to surrender and fight the suspicions against them.

I have not a favorable opinion about Islam, and that started already with the Salman Rushdie affair in the '80s when it was non-PC to be against those esoteric religions, but I just hate to be manipulated into thinking one way or the other, prompted by events that may have been set up or not.

This pathology of some in the western world to deny reality in hope it will just go away to be somebody else's problem never cease to shock me.

1. Do you mean that Muslims are not developed enough to have decent military training? What do you think they are doing in their camps?
2. They don't always lie. Actually major Islamic leaders in Australia, Europe and the Middle East say openly they are in war with Europe and call their people to attack the infidels. Declaring their affiliation is a big part of the attack.
3. Dropped his ID - so?

In short, wake up and smell the (Arabian) coffee, in the next decade Europe is going to bath in blood of mostly innocent Christians and Muslims.

[Wage Slave]

Actually major Islamic leaders in Australia, Europe and the Middle East say openly they are in war with Europe and call their people to attack the infidels.

Define "major Islamic leaders" and cite a few examples please. In the meantime I take that you don't regard any of these leaders as major:

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/01/not-in-our-name-muslims-respond-in-revulsion-to-charlie-hebdo-shooting/

[kagemusha]

Actually major Islamic leaders in Australia, Europe and the Middle East say openly they are in war with Europe and call their people to attack the infidels.

Define "major Islamic leaders" and cite a few examples please. In the meantime I take that you don't regard any of these leaders as major:

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/01/not-in-our-name-muslims-respond-in-revulsion-to-charlie-hebdo-shooting/

What's your point? You want to show me there are sane, liberal Muslims? Of course there are and let's not make it a straw man discussion.

If Qardawi - the most prominent leader in the Sunni world waving a gun and calls his followers to "kill infidels men women and children in the name of Allah" is not enough for you only last month one of the biggest Islamic factions' leader in Australia called for a war on Europe. The Hammas runs rallies calling for the "Death of Rome" (a symbol of the Christian world). In Mosques around Europe sermons about subduing and enslaving infidels are carried every week.
Leaders you want?

[wagyl]

I have not a favorable opinion about religion

FTFY

Yep, but Islam has a special (negative) place in my heart...

Well I was going to step up and say to Russell that I hoped that what he really meant to say is that it is Fundamentalism, of all kinds, be it Jewish, Christian, Islamic, Buddhist, Mormon, and the rest of a very non-exhaustive list, which is his problem, but maybe that is just me projecting my own views on other people.

I also wonder where kagemusha stands on the many youtube videos you can find of the stereotypical Southern US preacherman giving a fire and brimstone speech about the coming Rapture. The act of self promotion is not necessarily a sign of respect or importance, if it ever is.

[Russell]

I have not a favorable opinion about religion

FTFY

Yep, but Islam has a special (negative) place in my heart...

Well I was going to step up and say to Russell that I hoped that what he really meant to say is that it is Fundamentalism, of all kinds, be it Jewish, Christian, Islamic, Buddhist, Mormon, and the rest of a very non-exhaustive list, which is his problem, but maybe that is just me projecting my own views on other people.

I also wonder where kagemusha stands on the many youtube videos you can find of the stereotypical Southern US preacherman giving a fire and brimstone speech about the coming Rapture. The act of self promotion is not necessarily a sign of respect or importance, if it ever is.

Thanks for your wise words, Wagyl.

Yep, the problem is the extremists.

It cannot be denied, however, that Islam seems to attract a fair share of those people.

I do believe that the great majority of Muslims are peace loving people, who just want a stable life and a good future for their children. I am just not very impressed by their religion's tendency to attract hotheads.

[matsuki]

I have not a favorable opinion about religion

FTFY

Yep, but Islam has a special (negative) place in my heart...

Well I was going to step up and say to Russell that I hoped that what he really meant to say is that it is Fundamentalism, of all kinds, be it Jewish, Christian, Islamic, Buddhist, Mormon, and the rest of a very non-exhaustive list, which is his problem, but maybe that is just me projecting my own views on other people.

I also wonder where kagemusha stands on the many youtube videos you can find of the stereotypical Southern US preacherman giving a fire and brimstone speech about the coming Rapture. The act of self promotion is not necessarily a sign of respect or importance, if it ever is.

Thanks for your wise words, Wagyl.

Yep, the problem is the extremists.

It cannot be denied, however, that Islam seems to attract a fair share of those people.

I do believe that the great majority of Muslims are peace loving people, who just want a stable life and a good future for their children. I am just not very impressed by their religion's tendency to attract hotheads.

Just the latest trend...back in the day, Catholics were enslaving my ancestors and invading their lands under the guise that it was god's will to bring his word to these "subhumans."

[J.A.F.O]

Well I was going to step up and say to Russell that I hoped that what he really meant to say is that it is Fundamentalism, of all kinds, be it Jewish, Christian, Islamic, Buddhist, Mormon, and the rest of a very non-exhaustive list

Like my old man used to say: "Well if your going fuck up, might as well give it 100% effort"

[Russell]

I have not a favorable opinion about religion

FTFY

Yep, but Islam has a special (negative) place in my heart...

Well I was going to step up and say to Russell that I hoped that what he really meant to say is that it is Fundamentalism, of all kinds, be it Jewish, Christian, Islamic, Buddhist, Mormon, and the rest of a very non-exhaustive list, which is his problem, but maybe that is just me projecting my own views on other people.

I also wonder where kagemusha stands on the many youtube videos you can find of the stereotypical Southern US preacherman giving a fire and brimstone speech about the coming Rapture. The act of self promotion is not necessarily a sign of respect or importance, if it ever is.

Thanks for your wise words, Wagyl.

Yep, the problem is the extremists.

It cannot be denied, however, that Islam seems to attract a fair share of those people.

I do believe that the great majority of Muslims are peace loving people, who just want a stable life and a good future for their children. I am just not very impressed by their religion's tendency to attract hotheads.

Just the latest trend...back in the day, Catholics were enslaving my ancestors and invading their lands under the guise that it was god's will to bring his word to these "subhumans."

Good point.

It apparently requires a religion to be at least 2000 years old before its followers develop enough sense to become more peaceful.