Everything food in Japan

[matsuki]

Tangent from the whale meat thread that deserves it's own topic.....

Like any desperation ingredient. Most so-called Delicacies strike me as famine time necessities gussied up by pretence and bafflegab. Caviar comes to mind. The time I had whale or dolphin foisted on me the pighead wouldn't grill it for me, but I think that would have only helped with texture not taste. Easily the most worthless 3000 yen I have ever spent on food. Most non-Jpn I know that liked it are either babbling morons, or suffer from that weird thing where anything you try has to be good or it's your fault for being insufficiently sophisticated. As a cosmopolitan philistine, I'll have a nice steak please. Or Tonkatsu, which never seems to go wrong even when it's crappy tonkatsu.

I can buy that many Jpn will take to it, though. It's that love of gross, slimey and yucky they have, like with Chawan Mushi. And the mercury doesn't bug them, which is not particularly admirable but they're probably not all that wrong.

Couldn't agree more but I have a serious question Kuro - What was the longest stint you've spent in Japan?

Although I do visit 'merika™ 2-5 times a year, I've been in Japan long enough to have my palette recover from the sweet and salty assault that I grew up with. I'm not really a food nerd but I have definitely noticed that every trip back to the states I get a bit of shock when I bite into a burger or buy something like yogurt. The amount of salt and/or sugar in some things ruins it for me. On the other hand, I've all but given up on edible omiyage for my friends/family because nothing is ever sweet enough or "there isn't enough flavor." Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy most foods in the US and mule those hard to find items back with me.....but your mention of "being insufficiently sophisticated" reminded me of the need for sugar overload or dead sea level saltiness needed for many things to "taste good" to many in gaikokuland. Of course there will always be individual preference but when your idea of "normal" is insanely salty or sweet, your sense of taste is fucked.

[wagyl]

the need for sugar overload or dead sea level saltiness needed for many things to "taste good" to many in gaikokuland.

The sign that you have become assimilated.

Gaikoku is not a monolith.

My impression is that California in particular has fantastic fresh produce which they then tend to destroy by smothering in overwhelmingly rich sweet or salty accompaniments. Admittedly I did not go to the US until I had been in Japan for a few years but I am fairly sure that I would have had the same impression if I had gone there from my own country, based on the return visits I make there.

[Grumpy Gramps]

Where I am from, I feel that things are lots less sweet than here. I still find most foods totally ruined by the excessive amounts of sugar they pour on it here in Japan. Even simple things like bread are imo just gruesomely oversugered.

But then, I have heard Americans say, it's not enough...

[Samurai_Jerk]

Several of my Korean friends have complained that food here is too salty when they visited and when I was in the States I went to a house party thrown by a Japanese guy who made curry rice for everyone. Two Colombian guys at the party couldn't handle the spice and it wasn't even karakuchi.

[Wage Slave]

Where I am from, I feel that things are lots less sweet than here. I still find most foods totally ruined by the excessive amounts of sugar they pour on it here in Japan. Even simple things like bread are imo just gruesomely oversugered.

Except for sweets of course ........

[matsuki]

Gaikoku is not a monolith.

Definitely not

My impression is that California in particular has fantastic fresh produce which they then tend to destroy by smothering in overwhelmingly rich sweet or salty accompaniments. Admittedly I did not go to the US until I had been in Japan for a few years but I am fairly sure that I would have had the same impression if I had gone there from my own country, based on the return visits I make there.

The "flyover states" are much, much worse....

Where I am from, I feel that things are lots less sweet than here. I still find most foods totally ruined by the excessive amounts of sugar they pour on it here in Japan. Even simple things like bread are imo just gruesomely oversugered.

Except for sweets of course ........

Actually, yeah...there are a lot of things I find oddly and unnecessarily (IMO) sweetened in Japan but sweets aren't one of them.

Several of my Korean friends have complained that food here is too salty when they visited and when I was in the States I went to a house party thrown by a Japanese guy who made curry rice for everyone. Two Colombian guys at the party couldn't handle the spice and it wasn't even karakuchi.

I guess Korean food lacks the salt? (made up by tons of garlic and chili paste?) I didn't know Colombians were such pussies...even the karakuchi in Japan is hardly spicy.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Several of my Korean friends have complained that food here is too salty when they visited and when I was in the States I went to a house party thrown by a Japanese guy who made curry rice for everyone. Two Colombian guys at the party couldn't handle the spice and it wasn't even karakuchi.

I guess Korean food lacks the salt? (made up by tons of garlic and chili paste?) I didn't know Colombians were such pussies...even the karakuchi in Japan is hardly spicy.

It was the soups especially if I remember correctly. The soups I've had in Korea were definitely not as salty.

I my experience South Americans generally can't handle spicy food. They love to load things up with salt though.

By the way, I've found that people back home really like the snacks from Japan.

[Grumpy Gramps]

Except for sweets of course ........

Including sweets. Took me a while until I could eat cakes and chocolate here without complaining about them being chemical weapons

[Wage Slave]

Except for sweets of course ........

Including sweets. Took me a while until I could eat cakes and chocolate here without complaining about them being chemical weapons

What about traditional Japanese sweets and puddings? They aren't usually much sweeter than the food.

My experience of things Swiss is very limited but Toblerone isn't just as sweet? Or maybe that's the version they sell in Anglostan. There's no doubt that the Angles like sugar lots and lots - Just not in their mashed potato or overboiled cabbage so much.

[Coligny]

Except for sweets of course ........

Including sweets. Took me a while until I could eat cakes and chocolate here without complaining about them being chemical weapons

Sakura mochi, red beans paste... Anything...

Makes coke taste like sparkling water...

[matsuki]

By the way, I've found that people back home really like the snacks from Japan.

The omiyage type sold at the airport stores or the type you find at conbini?

The ones at the conbini are almost as sweet as the usual fare in the US and people there seen to dig them. I was more talking about the omiyage-type.

[Samurai_Jerk]

By the way, I've found that people back home really like the snacks from Japan.

The omiyage type sold at the airport stores or the type you find at conbini?

The ones at the conbini are almost as sweet as the usual fare in the US and people there seen to dig them. I was more talking about the omiyage-type.

Both but I was thinking more of omiyage. You're a half Indian hockey player though so you probably mostly associate with Tweenkie-eating white trash.

[Takechanpoo]

world ppl should know almost all of j-company-made snacks and instant noodles contain plenty of 植物油脂(vegetable fat and oil), which transforms margarine, mayonnaise and so on.

[Wage Slave]

Crikey Tacky. That's the second intelligent thing you have said recently. Steady on - not sure my delicate psyche can deal with it old man.

[Mike Oxlong]

world ppl should know almost all of j-company-made snacks and instant noodles contain plenty of 植物油脂(vegetable fat and oil), which transforms margarine, mayonnaise and so on.

It's leftover industrial machinery lubricant. The only thing the ubiquitous local cockroach won't outcompete you to eat.

[Ol Dirty Gaijin]

And salt. Shit loads of salt. When people were bulk buying cup ramen after the earthquake I couldn't stop laughing. Salt that needs boiled water. Nice choice.

[matsuki]

Kinda goes back to "the healthiest people in the world" chant and all that talk about skinny people. Skinny-fat and daikon-shi may hide the fat better than a beer gut but when your body is the consistency of creme of wheat in a balloon....you're far from healthy/fit.

[kurogane]

Tangent from the whale meat thread that deserves it's own topic.....

Couldn't agree more but I have a serious question Kuro - What was the longest stint you've spent in Japan? .

Mmmmm.............Years and Years? The longest would be 5 years straight, much of that in the Kentucky part (highland Geefoo). Groceries were a pain (no fruit juice!!??? Leelee???), but as a bustling tourist town they had some lovely cafeterias, and the Miso Katsu was to die for, so that saved me. Other than that, half of the past 25-ish years, back and forth.

.....but your mention of "being insufficiently sophisticated" reminded me of the need for sugar overload or dead sea level saltiness needed for many things to "taste good" to many in gaikokuland. Of course there will always be individual preference but when your idea of "normal" is insanely salty or sweet, your sense of taste is fucked.

I get what you mean, but that's not what I meant. I meant that many people and especially pretentious foodies will argue vehemently that any individual preference is simply a lack of personal and social cultivation, so my dislike of squishy, slimy and yucky is a personal fault due to my lack of Understanding of the Blah Blah Blah of that particular food item. It's a part of the New Conformities (Dibs!); there is almost a pseudo-religious remonstrative element to it. I not only disagree because it's so naive it's moronic, I think it is an insidious influence of the Oprahfacation of daily life, where everything must be Sooper Dooper! and you must like it or it's your fault. And the much simpler explanation is I just don't like Shiokara or Chawan-mushi, probably because I wasn't raised on slimy squish food. I am quite convinced it's a texture thing, and I fail to see how Understanding the Blah Blah of that particular texture will help overpower my gag reflex.

Now, as to the salt and sugar overload of American Food, yes, very much (Could I have some salad with my dressing, please?) and as much fun as it is for an occasional treat I could never handle that on a daily basis. As my First Gaikoku, virtually any greasy, salty, sugary take out food from just across the border near Seattle is like a holy pilgrimage, and the Burgermaster on Aurora North is my personal Hajj. Even Japanese that find NA food much too whatever agree that for an occasional or one time thing that is one delicious drive in burger, the fries are hilariously greasy but exquisite, and the fresh ice cream milkshakes are heavenly. "But as everyday food......mmmm, wakaranai na". I think Vancouver food in comparison is much, much less loaded with sugar and salt than even Seattle food, but I have no doubt if you leave the safety of the Wet Coast you will find things pretty similar. I have lots of flatlander friends here that actually can't eat white rice because they say it doesn't taste like anything, and what they consider Good Hearty Fare almost gives me a vicarious cardiac. They are fairly serious bumpkins, though, to be fair, and nice enough guys.

As I have said a gazillion times (and Wagyl might be counting), I find normal Japanese food to be perfectly tasty, healthy grub, I just don't get what all the hullabaloo is about, esp. about sushi, but that is due to the lack of true variety in Japanese cuisine (the rice or noodles or noodles or rice problem), and the Japanification of any ethnic food I have had there. I could eat some form of Japanese food all the time from now until the grave and not be particularly dissatisfied, and unless it's actually badly made I would never complain. When I eat out in Vancouver I almost always go for ethnic or Asian, but that's mostly because I can cook Western food well enough I don't need to go out for it, and unless it is rather well done there is always some gloopy sauce or icky nouveau ingredient fucking up the order. Like Kale. The NA fascination with overseasoning is actually quite amazing when you put it like that. It's like junkies trolling for their next fix.

I agree about the Skinny=healthy delusion thing, btw. Some 40something Jpn women I know look great in clothes and the fat white chicks can't believe how thin they are but they are so saggy and flabby I think I would prefer some extra meat on the side to that. I think that comes down to not eating and an almost complete lack of vigorous exercise, which is said to cause muscles

And don't get me started on the chemical industry conspiracy food like instant noodles and convenience store food. That's poison.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I get what you mean, but that's not what I meant. I meant that many people and especially pretentious foodies will argue vehemently that any individual preference is simply a lack of personal and social cultivation, so my dislike of squishy, slimy and yucky is a personal fault due to my lack of Understanding of the Blah Blah Blah of that particular food item. It's a part of the New Conformities (Dibs!); there is almost a pseudo-religious remonstrative element to it. I not only disagree because it's so naive it's moronic, I think it is an insidious influence of the Oprahfacation of daily life, where everything must be Sooper Dooper! and you must like it or it's your fault. And the much simpler explanation is I just don't like Shiokara or Chawan-mushi, probably because I wasn't raised on slimy squish food. I am quite convinced it's a texture thing, and I fail to see how Understanding the Blah Blah of that particular texture will help overpower my gag reflex.

Now, as to the salt and sugar overload of American Food, yes, very much (Could I have some salad with my dressing, please?) and as much fun as it is for an occasional treat I could never handle that on a daily basis. As my First Gaikoku, virtually any greasy, salty, sugary take out food from just across the border near Seattle is like a holy pilgrimage, and the Burgermaster on Aurora North is my personal Hajj. Even Japanese that find NA food much too whatever agree that for an occasional or one time thing that is one delicious drive in burger, the fries are hilariously greasy but exquisite, and the fresh ice cream milkshakes are heavenly. "But as everyday food......mmmm, wakaranai na". I think Vancouver food in comparison is much, much less loaded with sugar and salt than even Seattle food, but I have no doubt if you leave the safety of the Wet Coast you will find things pretty similar. I have lots of flatlander friends here that actually can't eat white rice because they say it doesn't taste like anything, and what they consider Good Hearty Fare almost gives me a vicarious cardiac. They are fairly serious bumpkins, though, to be fair, and nice enough guys.

It goes both ways. For every foodie (Have I mentioned how much I hate that word?) who gives you grief for pedestrian tastes, there are jerk offs who attack people for trying something different. Some of my buddies were visiting earlier this year and I took them to a yakitori place. They wanted to try raw chicken so I ordered the toriwasa. One of them took a picture of it and posted it on Facebook. He told me the next day he couldn't believe how many negative comments he got. And I don't mean people saying "Ewwwww, I would never eat that." A lot of people seemed legitimately angry. One of the other guys wanted to try basashi. He took a photo but was afraid to post it because he knew the shitstorm it would cause.

I know it's shtick but you do a pretty good job representing those reverse snobs. Since you don't like it, anyone who does must be a conformist to the new non conformity and there's something wrong with people who want to try food they're not used to. I really don't know why anyone cares what other people want or don't want to eat. A little ball breaking is fine but some people get seriously worked up about this shit. I make an exception for the texture thing though. If you dismiss a food solely on it's texture, you're a faggot.

I do love the Japanese who claim that they can't stand the sweetness, saltiness, or oiliness of American food while smothering slabs of deep friend pork in sweet sauce or stuffing their faces with heavily salted chicken tails and skin. And let's not even talk about tonkotsu ramen.

As I have said a gazillion times (and Wagyl might be counting), I find normal Japanese food to be perfectly tasty, healthy grub, I just don't get what all the hullabaloo is about, esp. about sushi, but that is due to the lack of true variety in Japanese cuisine (the rice or noodles or noodles or rice problem), and the Japanification of any ethnic food I have had there.

What do you mean by normal Japanese food? I really like the food at good restaurants but do find most of the home cooked stuff to be pretty bland and repetitive. However, that could just be a comment on the skill of the home cooks. I happen to come from a family of very good cooks so the bar is high. Both my parents know/knew their way around the kitchen and three of my siblings are or have been chefs.

Agreed on the foreign food here. Even in the global culinary Mecca of Tokyo I'm unimpressed. It's almost this weird psychological thing where if something is Japanese (including ramen and yoshoku) they have no problem making it really flavorful or sometimes even spicy but if it's Italian or Thai they have to go out of their way make it taste as close to tap water as possible to fit the delicate Japanese palate because to do otherwise would make them a traitor to the Yamato race. Things have gotten better though.

[kurogane]

So, before the substantive part, this is why everybody that talks about food except to tell you all that do to STFU (i.e. Me!) you're all hopeless faggots:

I can't think of anything I'd rather have than really good sushi and sashimi.

http://www.sfgate.com/recipes/article/L ... 689335.php

Okay, okay, San Fran, so he probably supplements his income by servicing glory holes and bending over for money.......but even for witless food fags.....Nothing better than lazy, overpriced, overhyped fag food most are too stupid to actually appreciate gastronomically? Fuck.

So.....................onto the meat and potatoes

It goes both ways. For every foodie (Have I mentioned how much I hate that word?) who gives you grief for pedestrian tastes, ................

Maybe I am lucky or unlucky, but I never get to meet those people. Everybody I know thinks that New is an unavoidable magnet that must be obeyed. And not all of them are sad. Which is sad. Apologies on the Foody thing, though, and agreed.

I know it's shtick but you do a pretty good job representing those reverse snobs.

Thank you. I am bored, but I do like to put some work in. No joke, though, it’s pure schtick, unless pressed on texture. That shiite is non-negotiable.........read on............

II make an exception for the texture thing though. If you dismiss a food solely on it's texture, you're a faggot.

Perhaps, but that beats being a conformist pleb with no centre My tongue knows shit I don't. The tongue is all. Other than that, party on. I get wat you mean with the negative press, but those are actually worse than foodies. And that is saying a fuck of a lot. Because foodies are just striving plebs. I hate plebs more than I hate Hitler. At least Hitler knew he was shit and killed himself.

What do you mean by normal Japanese food?

4 kinds of assorted shit with nice hot boiled rice and some kind of soup, preferably Suimono not Miso. AKA normal Japanese food. Were you not ever posted rural as a JETi?

the home cooked stuff that is almost impossibly bland and repetitive.

That. It's so harmless it's impossible to not like it, but that doesn' mean I am writing home about it. Where I grew up it was called Food. We ate it thrice per day. Not the Japanese stuff. The It's Food stuff. And it wasn't nearly as good as the impossibly bland and repetitive Japanese food I was fed whilst getting my hillbilly on up in dem dere highlands. I could eat that from now til forever and never blink. It's food. Good food, too, to be fair. Salty??????

Agreed on the foreign food here.

That drives me batty. It's fucking Mexican ferfucksakes. How can you fuck that up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????

Great post, good fun.

[dimwit]

Just a bit of a question. Is foody a subliterate way of saying gastronome or is there something to distinguish the two?

As for the texture thingy. I can dismiss natto mostly on the basis of texture. Eating something with the texture of the inside of a condom is in my mind what you might call faggotlike.

[Mike Oxlong]

Just a bit of a question. Is foody a subliterate way of saying gastronome or is there something to distinguish the two?

As for the texture thingy. I can dismiss natto mostly on the basis of texture. Eating something with the texture of the inside of a condom is in my mind what you might call faggotlike.

How do those terms differ from gourmand? And does the raw egg one dips their sukiyaki in slip under the texture line, or am I a poof?

[kurogane]

Just a bit of a question. Is foody a subliterate way of saying gastronome or is there something to distinguish the two?

How do those terms differ from gourmand? And does the raw egg one dips their sukiyaki in slip under the texture line, or am I a poof?

Well, they might insist it's a trendier way of saying that, so yes, pretentious Twitterphile subliteracy seems to be a necessary component. I would say a gourmand is a glutton, but that might be dated, and a foody is a gourmet or gastronome. And as Samurai Jerk says, you don't have to use those terms just to like food stuffs. I don't think he is one of the annoying sorts, but there is no shortage of those.

As for raw egg, it is always inappropriate for me, so you guys can have mine. My only complaint is the enforced cconformity. As long as I am not being strongarmed to try yucky food I don't fancy I say Munch Away!

Out of curiosity, though: Samurai Jerk, what sorts of foods do people get flack for trying, and where and what sort of flack is it?

[Samurai_Jerk]

So, before the substantive part, this is why everybody that talks about food except to tell you all that do to STFU (i.e. Me!) you're all hopeless faggots:

I can't think of anything I'd rather have than really good sushi and sashimi.

http://www.sfgate.com/recipes/article/L ... 689335.php

Okay, okay, San Fran, so he probably supplements his income by servicing glory holes and bending over for money.......but even for witless food fags.....Nothing better than lazy, overpriced, overhyped fag food most are too stupid to actually appreciate gastronomically?

Or maybe he really likes sushi and sashimi. I definitely like sushi though I'd still prefer a trip to one of NY's better steakhouses. Ankimo is disgusting though.

Were you not ever posted rural as a JETi?

No, I was in eastern Saitama one stop outside of Tokyo and a thirty minute to one hour train ride to the busiest parts of Tokyo. Plus the town I lived in had pretty good restaurants and nightlife including some amazing Thai restaurants that mainly served the Thai people working in the hostess bars and massage parlors. No English or Japanese menus at the one I usually went to.

Out of curiosity, though: Samurai Jerk, what sorts of foods do people get flack for trying, and where and what sort of flack is it?

There are the animals that people are against eating for emotional reasons like dogs, horses, and whales.

There's the dangerous food which usually means any raw or rare meat that isn't beef or seafood.

There's the gross food which is the most common one people criticize and the list is long because it depends on the person and also often on the nationality but some examples would be organ meat though a lot of people with do liver, anything from the ocean besides fish that's unfamiliar, insects, natto (of course) or anything else smelly like Vietnamese fish sauce, reptiles or amphibians, and game meat.

It is interesting how with some exceptions like natto and smelly tofu it's only unfamiliar or cute animals that people have a problem with eating. If it's plant based they might say they don't like it but no one thinks you're crazy for eating it and I can't imagine someone with a rose garden getting upset with you eating a salad with rose petals the way a dog owner would for eating dog stew in Korea.

Just a bit of a question. Is foody a subliterate way of saying gastronome or is there something to distinguish the two?

I like this definition from urban dictionary.

Foodie:A fat kid pretentious enough to think up a special word to describe their desperate longing for anything to shove down their face. They'll often claim to be "food enthusiasts" or to have "refined tastes," but they're usually lying.

It reminds me of my friends who hide their raging alcoholism behind an appreciation of craft beer.

As for the texture thingy. I can dismiss natto mostly on the basis of texture. Eating something with the texture of the inside of a condom is in my mind what you might call faggotlike.

You must shoot some really weird loads

[Wage Slave]

It reminds me of my friends who hide their raging alcoholism behind an appreciation of craft beer.

Or around here, an appreciation of wine. The number of wine bottles that appear on rubbish bottle day and the steady growth of the wine aisle at the supermarket are testament. It's gone even further in London. Wine typically has a whole sub-section/corner to itself.

[matsuki]

the lack of true variety in Japanese cuisine (the rice or noodles or noodles or rice problem)

...or bread. Almost as annoying as the "do you prefer the coffee or tea?" enigma. Is it that perplexing that some people like both?

Anyhow, I get what you're saying. Eat what you want to eat and don't be a snob about what others eat. (and don't be a bitch about trying new foods)

As for the texture thingy. I can dismiss natto mostly on the basis of texture. Eating something with the texture of the inside of a condom is in my mind what you might call faggotlike.

You must shoot some really weird loads

[matsuki]

Brought back some mint oreos for the office (hey, they're cheap and plenty for everyone)....everyone loved em cept for the most We Japanese dude who started saying my other favorite Japanese food line...they taste like "toothpaste, salonpas, or chemicals." Yeah guy, anything with mint/menthol is toothpaste flavor.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Brought back some mint oreos for the office (hey, they're cheap and plenty for everyone)....everyone loved em cept for the most We Japanese dude who started saying my other favorite Japanese food line...they taste like "toothpaste, salonpas, or chemicals." Yeah guy, anything with mint/menthol is toothpaste flavor.

Let me guess. He's a smoker.

[kurogane]

Anyhow, I get what you're saying. Eat what you want to eat and don't be a snob about what others eat. (and don't be a bitch about trying new foods)

Yes to all that, but refusing to go lemming is good fun; way more fun than monkfish liver, anyways. It's not like there is ever anything new anyways, proper Tonkatsu will always trump new, and Japanese girls really, really, really dig it when you can't or won't rise to the challenge of pretending to like starving peasant BS mush................like sushi. Cook it for me, bitch. And then get kitted up in that gear I bought ya...........

[matsuki]

Brought back some mint oreos for the office (hey, they're cheap and plenty for everyone)....everyone loved em cept for the most We Japanese dude who started saying my other favorite Japanese food line...they taste like "toothpaste, salonpas, or chemicals." Yeah guy, anything with mint/menthol is toothpaste flavor.

Let me guess. He's a smoker.

Former smoker, I remember him going on and on about how much tastier food was since he quit though?