Environmentalists pursue Japan's whalers

[kurogane]

Just to spout off a bit, it seems to me this discussion has taken a whale of a diversion, but that's not hard to baleen around here.............. ????

[wagyl]

You did not initially ask if the parties differed in their stance toward whaling - but rather if the parties had different policies. Please don`t add lying to your tool chest.

Oh I do beg your pardon for totally wasting your time.

I have failed in my education and social skills.

In a thread all about whaling, in response to a post saying that one party is using whaling as a tool to -- let's be generous in the interpretation of that post -- obtain more votes than other parties, I ask whether the other parties have different policies.

It is completely ludicrous for anyone to think that that question might be about their stance towards whaling.

Especially when after your first reply, I counter that you have not addressed the issue of whaling in that reply.

To which you replied that it is all about whaling.

Completely ludicrous.


Oh, about the drinking meme. It seems I might have touched a sore nerve there. Well, I am not the one who has on more than one occasion tried to excuse a dodgy post with "it was after sake." You can understand that if you are going to decide not to stand by your posts on that ground, that also has an impact on how much notice I am going to take of any of your other posts, and how much effort I am going to put into replying.


I stand by my post record. If you look at this or any other thread, you will see that although I do give as good as I get in abuse, I am not ever the first to throw the stone. I start from a polite stance. If things are escalated by the other party, however, I am fully willing to meet them on that new field.

But not to worry, Salty. I have now seen that buy means obtain, and that a topic about whales is really about vote imbalance. I'm still not clear on whether support for whaling is vote buying in your mind or not, and you know what, that doesn't really matter. I do know that your presentation of your debate has not meshed with anything I have a reference to -- that may be down to logic issues you have belatedly acknowledged -- so it is all a mystery and will probably remain that way. I can live with that.


Thank God this episode is over. I can now get back to that whalesong mp3.

[matsuki]

Ok Wags, in your words, what is wrong with the J-gov?

In my view, the biggest issue, and what causes the changes of leadership, are the constantly reforming and realigning factions within whichever party or coalition happens to be in power at any one time. Dietmembers seem to be perfectly happy to realign themselves behind a different faction leader at each reshuffle, which seems to happen at each minor crisis. The major motivator is not what their constituents want or even what their constituents voted them in to do, but instead whatever is expedient for their political career. That last factor is common to the political animal everywhere, though. I think. The faction system is not a force of good for democracy, in my view. Possibly because of the limitations on campaigning I mentioned above (My name! My name! Yoroshiku onegai itashimasu!) and also for cultural reasons, there is less tendency to call politicians to account about whether they are actually keeping the bargains they made to get elected.

OK, I agree with all that...it's not just the system but the culture, and factions....but you don't think that can be generalized as a unique fucked version of "Japanese democracy?"

I know that it goes against democracy to deny a particular class an entitlement to become dietmembers, but the tendency for political dynasties here does tempt me to wish that they would stop relatives of members becoming members themselves. Then again, a few people in the US probably have a similar wish in relation to their own political system.

Probably not a good idea to deny anyone the right to become elected gov officials but the campaign, raising money for campaigning, restrictions, etc in both countries don't make for a level playing field nor do they yield the best candidates as much as the most connected cadidates.

Matsuki, General Butt Naked is from Liberia.

I know, was jokingly referring to him because he's almost as ridicules as the Zimbabwe gov.

[Salty]

You did not initially ask if the parties differed in their stance toward whaling - but rather if the parties had different policies. Please don`t add lying to your tool chest.

Oh I do beg your pardon for totally wasting your time.

I have failed in my education and social skills.

In a thread all about whaling, in response to a post saying that one party is using whaling as a tool to -- let's be generous in the interpretation of that post -- obtain more votes than other parties, I ask whether the other parties have different policies.

It is completely ludicrous for anyone to think that that question might be about their stance towards whaling.

Especially when after your first reply, I counter that you have not addressed the issue of whaling in that reply.

To which you replied that it is all about whaling.

Completely ludicrous.


Oh, about the drinking meme. It seems I might have touched a sore nerve there. Well, I am not the one who has on more than one occasion tried to excuse a dodgy post with "it was after sake." You can understand that if you are going to decide not to stand by your posts on that ground, that also has an impact on how much notice I am going to take of any of your other posts, and how much effort I am going to put into replying.


I stand by my post record. If you look at this or any other thread, you will see that although I do give as good as I get in abuse, I am not ever the first to throw the stone. I start from a polite stance. If things are escalated by the other party, however, I am fully willing to meet them on that new field.

But not to worry, Salty. I have now seen that buy means obtain, and that a topic about whales is really about vote imbalance. I'm still not clear on whether support for whaling is vote buying in your mind or not, and you know what, that doesn't really matter. I do know that your presentation of your debate has not meshed with anything I have a reference to -- that may be down to logic issues you have belatedly acknowledged -- so it is all a mystery and will probably remain that way. I can live with that.


Thank God this episode is over. I can now get back to that whalesong mp3.

I was going to post Boy, you really suck at apologies., but then realized it would go both ways. So instead, please do accept my apology for being so hard-headed and allowing this to spin out of control. I will endeavor to be better…

[matsuki]

Japan will resume by the end of March so-called research whaling in the Antarctic Ocean after having suspended it since March last year, the Fisheries Agency said Friday.

The International Court of Justice in The Hague judged in March 2014 that Japan’s whaling program in the Antarctic Ocean violated an international commercial whaling moratorium which came into force in 1986.

The agency concluded the plan submitted to the International Whaling Commission for resuming whaling in the Antarctic Ocean by cutting annual minke whale catches by two-thirds to 333 is scientifically adequate and no change is needed.

An IWC panel did not reach a consensus on Japan’s whaling plan in the Antarctic Ocean at its meeting earlier in the year.

Japan had carried out what it calls scientific whaling in the Antarctic Ocean since 1987.

http://www.japantoday.com/category/nati ... d-of-march

From the comments:

Minke whale - the most researched species in the history of the world, since the beginning of time - bar none.

[kurogane]

Praise be to the pulsating organs of international justice and Japan's faithful dedication to participation in the same. But will the Bingerabongee be adult enough to play fair, or will they continue to play the White is Right card?
If you have to kill whales surely the minke is the one to go for. Being baleeners their mercury levels should be lower, and the name just screams Inspector Clouseau.

A: Look here, matey, yooz Jeps needz to step henting er Minkes

J: But zey are not your Minkes

[Takechanpoo]

all english medias have to do just now is win j-nationals over to their side by proposing a rational claim based on objective datas.
most of j-natinals misunderstand the mainstream of anti-whaling is sea shepherd and their followers. it makes j-nationals inflexible attitude toward this issue. its considerably english medias fault for j-nationals to misunderstand like that.

[wagyl]

I don't think English language media has any influence on Japanese opinion. Full stop.

[Takechanpoo]

until recently english medias had reported sympathetic articles about sea shepherds activities. and j-medias translate the outline and racist comments and report it. and it makes j-ppl patriotic and extremistic and the populist government can keep hunting whales fully backed by j-ppl. and enlgish medias report the articles roundaboutly supporting sea shepherd. and then makes j-ppl....its vicious circle.

[wagyl]

I don't think any media, including the Japanese media, will bother reporting on a rational protest without supplied handheld video footage of drama.

[Russell]

Whatever, but don't butcher the dolphins.

Because they are highly intelligent.

At least compared to the retarded kids they are forced to swim with...

[Takechanpoo]

why is not it allowed to eat if it has high intelligence? or why is it allowed to eat if it just has low intelligence?
regardless of whether it has high intelligence or not, the fact remains that every living things have the same value as a piece of the whole ecosystem.

actually if at some future time, aliens, who have far higher intelligence than humans, come to this planet and start hunting and eating humans because humans just have far lower intelligence for them, how do you rebut their claim and stop them to eat humans?

its a contemporary version eugenics or transformed nazism in which the target is simply changed humans to non-humans.
it means its invalid to make intelligence the standard of whether its allowed to eat or not.

[Russell]

Japan sparks anger as it resumes Antarctic whaling despite court ruling

[Salty]

why is not it allowed to eat if it has high intelligence? or why is it allowed to eat if it just has low intelligence?
regardless of whether it has high intelligence or not, the fact remains that every living things have the same value as a piece of the whole ecosystem. ....

You are referring to Russell`s retarded kids in the post above yours - right?

[Mike Oxlong]

It appears the WTO is far more dangerous to dolphins than the denizens of Taiji.

https://shadowproof.com/2015/11/28/ban- ... mer-rights

[Wage Slave]

So not just the Great Whitey then:

dolphins—mammals that, incidentally, were declared “non-human persons” by India in February 2014. As India’s Ministry of Environment and Forests explained at the time:

"Whereas cetaceans [dolphins, whales, porpoises] in general are highly intelligent and sensitive, and various scientists who have researched dolphin behavior have suggested that the unusually high intelligence as compared to other animals means that dolphins should be seen as ‘non-human persons’ and as such should have their own specific rights …"

I don't agree and Tacky is right about their status, but that still leaves moral questions around unnecessary killing and killing in a cruel manner which inflicts excessive suffering and pain.

[Yokohammer]

If we'd all just become vegetarians we could say whatever we liked about this.

You guys go first ...

[matsuki]

Japan sparks anger as it resumes Antarctic whaling despite court ruling

The issue could be banning used school girl panty vending machines but when you come out saying you will abide by the International court's decision.....and then you only alter the level of the banned behavior "in consideration" of the courts decision, your other international plights probable won't get much sympathy and any decisions in your favor aren't as likely to be as respected when you're looked at as a country that has ignored decisions against it.

[Russell]

Japan sparks anger as it resumes Antarctic whaling despite court ruling

The issue could be banning used school girl panty vending machines but when you come out saying you will abide by the International court's decision.....and then you only alter the level of the banned behavior "in consideration" of the courts decision, your other international plights probable won't get much sympathy and any decisions in your favor aren't as likely to be as respected when you're looked at as a country that has ignored decisions against it.

In other words, China will use this as an excuse in its island disputes with Japan?

[matsuki]

Japan sparks anger as it resumes Antarctic whaling despite court ruling

The issue could be banning used school girl panty vending machines but when you come out saying you will abide by the International court's decision.....and then you only alter the level of the banned behavior "in consideration" of the courts decision, your other international plights probable won't get much sympathy and any decisions in your favor aren't as likely to be as respected when you're looked at as a country that has ignored decisions against it.

In other words, China will use this as an excuse in its island disputes with Japan?

Not hard to imagine China ignoring an international court decision against them, regarding island disputes with Japan in particular.

[Samurai_Jerk]

World must agree to disagree on hunting whales, Japan official says

"We did our best to try to meet the criteria established by the International Court of Justice and we have decided to implement our research plan, because we are confident that we completed the scientific homework as well as ... meeting the ICJ judgment requirement," Morishita told a news conference.

Morishita added that the emotive issue may just be another one of many irreconcilable differences international society has to live with.

"The solution is that we have to agree to disagree," he said.

"However, this does not mean that we will take all whales - exactly because we'd like to have sustainable whaling, we'd like to have a healthy whale population."

[wagyl]

Is this a direct quote of English, or from a translation? Are they saying that their aim is to take whales, rather than study them?

[kurogane]

Well, they have to take them too study them. It's kind of hard to compare omnivorous dolphin meat to baleen whale meat for texture, taste and nutritional value.

Nice to see the JPN sticking to the rule book and emphasising that they are following the ICJ ruling, unlike all the hysterical brainfarters claiming they are ignoring it: the ruling was the hunt as it stood was not scientific. They didn't rule that Japan could not hunt whales for scientific purposes, which is a moot point because Japan didn't agree to stop scientific research hunts. A shame that so many native speakers of English read it like a Japanese junior high school student. Maybe if they shut their fat mouths the Japanese will get bored enough with it all to stop being such stubborn pricks and stop killing the whales.

[Russell]

World must agree to disagree on hunting whales, Japan official says

Sounds like they hired Rumsfeld as PR adviser...

[kurogane]

OTOH, with all the real problems even for First Worlders these days, maybe that would be the best resolution, at least for now? They are just fucking whales, after all. I have never had any problems in Japan stating my heartfelt opposition because I also add that we just disagree. Anybody genuinely riled up about the Japanese hunting a few whales should be sterilised and made to clean up monkey poo for the rest of their worthless provincial, navel gazing lives. PETA-philes are the problem, not a solution.

Not that I condone any form of Rumsfeldianism. He has a PhD, you know

[Russell]

Now, if those environmentalists are really smart they paint the text "研究" on the sides of their ships, and claim that their actions are just a psychological experiment to test the Japanese population for sensitivity to hypocrisy.

[wagyl]

Now, if those environmentalists are really smart they paint the text "研究" on the sides of their ships, and claim that their actions are just a psychological experiment to test the Japanese population for sensitivity to hypocrisy.

Russell I am sick and tired of your constantly ridiculous suggestions. Everybody knows that you can only truly study those sort of parameters by killing the test subjects.

[matsuki]

Now, if those environmentalists are really smart they paint the text "研究" on the sides of their ships, and claim that their actions are just a psychological experiment to test the Japanese population for sensitivity to hypocrisy.

Russell I am sick and tired of your constantly ridiculous suggestions. Everybody knows that you can only truly study those sort of parameters by killing the test subjects.

Don't forget eating them. It's "Japanese style"

Tsutomu Miyazaki and Issei Sagawa were pioneers!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Issei_Sagawa

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsutomu_Miyazaki

[Takechanpoo]

i once deeply researched about Tsutomu Miyazaki. even went to watch the remained site of his ex-home.
its over 90% he was falsely accused.
still the true culprit is alive somewhere......

[wagyl]

i once deeply researched about Tsutomu Miyazaki. even went to watch the remained site of his ex-home.
its over 90% he was falsely accused.
still the true culprit is alive somewhere......

...and exercising extreme self control in stopping the spree of crimes. I suppose that is what happens when you can no longer hide body parts and videos taken of victims in Miyazaki's house.