Japanese traffic signals and other driving fun

[Yokohammer]

He might be bigging up the drama of these incidents too.

That would be preferable to seeing him in our Dead Gaijins section.


~ Tapatalking ~

[matsuki]

Another to add from last night...I've mentioned it before but to get to my home, I have to drive around the roundabout in front of the station. There is a street that intersects it and has a stop sign for those entering the roundabout...there are no stop signs if your already on the round about but many times I've almost T-boned idiots who have wrongly assumed vehicles on the roundabout also have a stop sign. Last night I was behind a mini-bus, on the roundabout, and it made a left at that intersection while I was going straight on the round about....and there just happened to be a dude on a bike at the stop sign that either made a totally blind turn into me or assumed I would stop. I never saw the guy until I was a cm from running his ass over...he was screaming and waving his arms at me like I was in the wrong.

I am soooo buying a fucking train horn or PA system....

Matsuki, I'm trying really hard not to sound patronizing here, but these "I didn't see him/her/it until I almost hit him/her/it" or vice versa episodes seem to be occurring with above-average frequency in your daily routine. Do you need to slow down? Pay closer attention? Get your eyes checked? Something needs work, I'm almost sure of it.

Yoko - Believe me when I say that I get your point....but I've seen the same shit happen at about the same frequency (sometimes more) when I'm not driving. For a little perspective, I've driven about 1,500km in the past week and I drive almost daily in Tokyo's fucked streets. (Yes, the poorly lit/designed streets are often just as dangerous as the oblivious drivers) So I'd say the reason I encounter this shit so often is I simply drive more than most, on worse streets than most.

As to this particular incident...I was going slow...or I would have made some J-biker road kill. Going slow enough to stop is about all I could do there and because I was, he lives. Let's be clear though...I'm not bending physics....I had a mini-bus in between me and the biker, the biker is essentially making a blind, unsafe, right turn, across oncoming traffic (me) and won't become visible to me until he's right in front of me. Like I said before, based on his behavior before and after, and numerous other potential t-bone targets, I'm pretty sure he's making the blind turn under the false assumption that there is a stop sign for vehicles on the roundabout. not a very safe assumption, especially when you can't see the oncoming traffic.

[edit]

Not going to U/L an hours worth of footage and I don't have premier on this PC but here are some screen caps...

bus1.jpg

bus2.jpg

bus3.jpg

What you don't really get from the pics/vid is that it's a roundabout....so approaching the intersection behind the bus doesn't give you much of a view of any assholes at that stop sign until the bus has turned.

[chibaka]

Reading between the lines Chibaka you have chosen not to do this through your insurance company but to handle this yourself with advice from a mate. That -- the decision not to involve your own insurance in a claim -- is a legitimate choice to make, to avoid future changes to insurance premiums and especially so if the damage is unlikely to exceed the excess on your policy, but I hope you know what you are doing. Your past (and I think ongoing) dealings with insurance here will give you some clues as to how things work. Your outrage at "If I was mobile I am being held minimally liable" suggests that some of the clues might only have sunk in 90% (see what I did there?)

If my understanding is incorrect and you have notified your own insurance about this, for Christ's sake, leave it to them.


Oh, another clue. It is not only about principles. It is, ultimately, only about money. You don't need to agree proportion of blame at this stage, even though they would like you to do so. Sometimes, the actual Yen value of that 10/90 compromise is not worth the hair you pull out getting to it.

No, both insurance companies are involved, and are discussing, which would be unnecessary if obaa chan had fessed up. They will ultimately (I think) apportion blame. The only difference is that until now, the cops didn't want to get involved. Blame would have been shared on a "he said, she said" basis. Now the cops are involved thanks to my persistence, they will make a report and then we will see.
I will be there when the report is crafted, along with obaa chan and my negotiator.
This is Japan, I won't get 0% liability, but I will win an acceptable level which will avoid my insurance paying out, and my premiums increasing next year.

That is the plan at least....

[kurogane]

What you don't really get from the pics/vid is that it's a roundabout....so approaching the intersection behind the bus doesn't give you much of a view of any assholes at that stop sign until the bus has turned.

Was that a stop sign? If it was, then yes and fine, he's wrong (and certainly unsafe regardless) but trailing farther behind that bus would have been advisable there. I won't bother suggesting slowing down If it wasn't a stop sign, then he is on your left and so has the right of way (assuming anybody even knows that rule anymore, or ever did) except that it's a roundabout which means any vehicle already in it has the right of way, unless the road he came off is the bigger one in which case somebody has the right of way but roundabouts are new enough and rare enough I would be willing to bet a pint of HUB Special Ale that most people using them don't know that and may be operating under the assumption that the vehicle on the left or coming from the bigger road has the right of way. Unless he was just driving through his A'hole and assumed that he had the right of way because he already knew where he was going, was doing exactly that, and why were you there in the first place, and all he could muster as a reaction was I'M DRIVIN' HERE, I'M DRIVING HERE!!!!?

But do drive safe out there.

[Russell]

But do drive safe out there.

That sums it up.

[wagyl]

I am familiar with that particular road and it is a rotary, but not officially a roundabout.

The motorbike has a stop sign.

stalker mode/
I did consider posting the streetview, but then remembered that Matsuki has certain specialist knowledge about me too.

[matsuki]

Was that a stop sign? If it was, then yes and fine, he's wrong (and certainly unsafe regardless) but trailing farther behind that bus would have been advisable there. I won't bother suggesting slowing down

I am familiar with that particular road and it is a rotary, but not officially a roundabout.

The motorbike has a stop sign.

stop.jpg

Bike perspective (STOP SIGN)

stopnope.jpg

My perspective (No stop or yield sign) Right of way to go left or stay on the same rotary that curves right.

He had a stop sign and *I think* he wrongly assumed either it was a 3-way stop (which isn't usual and seeing as how the bus made it's left turn without stopping, an even more fucked assumption) .....or he just did a hail mary blind right turn but there's no doubt he was in the wrong. My point was that Yoko is getting the idea that it's my driving that is causing all these near-misses when it's more a consequence of the amount of driving I do, where I drive, and the insane amount of oblivious drivers here. (or maybe Wags is right and my definition of a near miss is a little broader than Yoko's)

BTW, not too clear from the pics but this was all really low speed and I had enough space between me and the bus to stop in time. The average J-driver would have turned him to bike parts and mush. All the idiots out there have made me a far more cautious driver and that's usually what saves my ass...but that doesn't make these fucked encounters any less stressful.

stalker mode/
I did consider posting the streetview, but then remembered that Matsuki has certain specialist knowledge about me too.

Even worse, I've spent more time naked with you than I do with most lemurs

[chibaka]

Met with plod and obaa chan today, quite amusing. Her explanation that she stopped and looked was met with some disbelieving looks. In the direction she should have looked is a 1metre thick concrete post supporting a bridge, so how the fuck she reckons she checked is anyone's guess. X-ray vision malfunction?
Anyway, it's documented, as I wanted. What it will achieve I have no idea.

[matsuki]

Did you already get a copy of the report or see what they wrote? Her explanation being met with disbelieving looks seems like a good sign.

[chibaka]

They won't give me a copy, it's secret. Wtf?
But insurance company can contact them when necessary.
Honestly if anyone saw the place, they would agree, but as the saying goes, this is Japan.

[matsuki]

To be honest, I think the whole "let's share the blame" mentality is encouraged by insurance companies as it probably keeps some assholes from committing insurance fraud, knowing that at the end of the day, they will at least share some of the blame. Unfortunately, the "savings" to be had there don't seem to lower insurance rates.

[Salty]

To be honest, I think the whole "let's share the blame" mentality is encouraged by insurance companies as it probably keeps some assholes from committing insurance fraud, knowing that at the end of the day, they will at least share some of the blame. Unfortunately, the "savings" to be had there don't seem to lower insurance rates.

Sometimes it is the same insurance company, and even when they are different – by having both parties to blame, they get to raise the premiums on both. More profit all the way around.

[matsuki]

To be honest, I think the whole "let's share the blame" mentality is encouraged by insurance companies as it probably keeps some assholes from committing insurance fraud, knowing that at the end of the day, they will at least share some of the blame. Unfortunately, the "savings" to be had there don't seem to lower insurance rates.

Sometimes it is the same insurance company, and even when they are different – by having both parties to blame, they get to raise the premiums on both. More profit all the way around.

Stacks the odds in the house's favor indeed.

[chibaka]

To be honest, I think the whole "let's share the blame" mentality is encouraged by insurance companies as it probably keeps some assholes from committing insurance fraud, knowing that at the end of the day, they will at least share some of the blame. Unfortunately, the "savings" to be had there don't seem to lower insurance rates.

Sometimes it is the same insurance company, and even when they are different – by having both parties to blame, they get to raise the premiums on both. More profit all the way around.

Stacks the odds in the house's favor indeed.

I'd agree with that, reduce compensation payments and premium increases all round.

Anyhoo, it's time for the 2 insurance companies to bang heads and decide on my share of blame even though I did nothing wrong, except of course I existed, at the wrong place and time. Now that there is a detailed map written by plod, clearly showing Obaa chan neither stopped or looked, I asked my insurance is that enough.... "Oh noooo, we are not allowed to see that report, unless we go through some legal process which could take months". So, I can't see it, they can't see it, what the fuck is the point?
It seems it only gets used in the case of injury claim, which usually is covered by jibaiseki (up to 1.2 million yen), you know, just in case someone develops pain at the time, or later......
So back to a crappy form to fill in, he said she said, but I will submit extra, with photos, CSI style

On a side note, I had a repair estimate in my town 2 weeks ago, took them 30 minutes. Dropped my car off yesterday at a recommended-by-friend shop, 24 hours later they are still sitting around scratching their arses, no estimate to be seen. I wouldn't mind but they gave me a shitty kei car... Holy crap, those things are shit, the aircon has more power than the engine, this one stinks of tobacco, I hope mine gets fixed a.s.a.p but not holding my breath..

Ha, rantage worked, fax just arrived with an estimate.

[kurogane]

Wow. You said "arrived by fax" and you weren't making a 90s retro joke Japan is sooooooooo cool.

Anyways, I hope it all goes well, or at least well enough.

I agree with the idea that sharing the blame is as much an insurance industry interest as it is any cultural thing. The insurance industry is such a rigged game there is an obvious advantage to spreading the blame, even if it doesn't raise premiums. It's almost a logical imperative for them if they are professionals. An alien observer would be dumbfounded we let that shiite work the way it does.

[matsuki]

Heh, but now we have full color fakkusu!

Insurance is one of those things where I don't see the benefit of free market competition. It's a gamble that the house usually wins...until there's a disaster and the house goes in the red and needs to be bailed out. Would gov-car insurance really be that bad? Once impartial insurer without vested interest to decide blame and such...no need to rig it and I imagine more citations being handed out to those at fault, reducing fraudulent claims.

[wagyl]

Pinko scum. Why do you hate the invisible hand?

[matsuki]

Pinko scum. Why do you hate the invisible hand?

Only when it's keeping the wa by shaking hands with the other invisible hand to screw everyone over equally. Sorta related to driving fun but I lost count of the number of auto part Japanese companies sued in the past few years for price fixing....but at least with that type of shit, there are alternative and unrelated "hungry" suppliers as another option.

[chibaka]

Wow. You said "arrived by fax" and you weren't making a 90s retro joke Japan is sooooooooo cool.

No joke, there was no paper in the machine, just dust..... I had to get the manual out to print it,,

[inflames]

Insurance is one of those things where I don't see the benefit of free market competition. It's a gamble that the house usually wins...until there's a disaster and the house goes in the red and needs to be bailed out. Would gov-car insurance really be that bad? Once impartial insurer without vested interest to decide blame and such...no need to rig it and I imagine more citations being handed out to those at fault, reducing fraudulent claims.

Insurance companies used to be mutual companies (as in not-for-profit, owned by the policyholders).

I wouldn't have the government run things in Japan - quite simply, the potential for political pressure to favor certain groups is too high. That, plus the fact that most of the kokumin kenko hoken plans in Japan basically live off of support from the government (premiums don't cover outlays).

[kurogane]

Good point. Lloyd's still is I believe. If they made it through the financial deluge. I quite like that idea, a bit like the Mountain Equipment Coop in Vancouver. Other merchants complain it is unfair competition, but nobody profits and it's well run with good products at good prices. A bit of a hippy labour cartel but they deserve a good paycheck too.

[chibaka]

And today's parking award goes to......

I have seen worse but still, a classic effort

IMG_20151210_121844.jpg

[matsuki]

Last weekend some asshole (at a rest area) almost ran me and my dog over, pulling some weird overly-wide (into parking spots) turn to position his minivan to back into one of the spaces. He didn't even flinch when I jumped back, with my dog in my arms. I yelled at him once he got out of his car (and his family filed out behind) and was greeted with the most timid/pathetic apology I've ever seen. Feel bad for the kids...papa is not only a terrible driver, it must suck knowing your dad is such a pussy.

[Yokohammer]

I don't understand why people in little kei cars make those big wide lane-straddling left turns. Those things will hug the curb all the way with absolutely no problem. Just turn the steering wheel to the left, fer chrissake. No need to do a big wide preparatory bloom out to the right. A full size car will easily hug the curb on a normal left. And yet they drive like they're in a big ol' 16-wheeler rig. Dangerous numbnuts.

[chibaka]

Another annoying related thing I noticed is right turns. An apparent inability to turn 90 degrees, every corner must be negotiated by cutting it at 45 degrees, whether they have visibility or not. Wall blocking the view? No problem, cut the corner and hope no one is there. I've had many close calls with those idiots.

[Mike Oxlong]

I don't understand why people in little kei cars make those big wide lane-straddling left turns. Those things will hug the curb all the way with absolutely no problem. Just turn the steering wheel to the left, fer chrissake. No need to do a big wide preparatory bloom out to the right. A full size car will easily hug the curb on a normal left. And yet they drive like they're in a big ol' 16-wheeler rig. Dangerous numbnuts.

It's so common it must have been advised by some celeb driving "sensei" on the tv, or some similar way.

[Mike Oxlong]

Another annoying related thing I noticed is right turns. An apparent inability to turn 90 degrees, every corner must be negotiated by cutting it at 45 degrees, whether they have visibility or not. Wall blocking the view? No problem, cut the corner and hope no one is there. I've had many close calls with those idiots.

And this? Was this taught in driving school, or did the whole nation agree to this particular form of mass hysteria?

[wuchan]

I don't understand why people in little kei cars make those big wide lane-straddling left turns. Those things will hug the curb all the way with absolutely no problem. Just turn the steering wheel to the left, fer chrissake. No need to do a big wide preparatory bloom out to the right. A full size car will easily hug the curb on a normal left. And yet they drive like they're in a big ol' 16-wheeler rig. Dangerous numbnuts.

It's so common it must have been advised by some celeb driving "sensei" on the tv, or some similar way.

If you turn wide on the drivers test you will fail. They don't teach it.

I think so many people have misjudged turns and beached their car on those giant curbs that everyone is now afraid of doing it again.




You do have to remember one thing here, you are all living in a country full of asian drivers.

[Mike Oxlong]

I don't understand why people in little kei cars make those big wide lane-straddling left turns. Those things will hug the curb all the way with absolutely no problem. Just turn the steering wheel to the left, fer chrissake. No need to do a big wide preparatory bloom out to the right. A full size car will easily hug the curb on a normal left. And yet they drive like they're in a big ol' 16-wheeler rig. Dangerous numbnuts.

It's so common it must have been advised by some celeb driving "sensei" on the tv, or some similar way.

If you turn wide on the drivers test you will fail. They don't teach it.

I think so many people have misjudged turns and beached their car on those giant curbs that everyone is now afraid of doing it again.




You do have to remember one thing here, you are all living in a country full of asian drivers.

I understand it isn't taught at driving school, but I'm wondering if someone who got themselves on TV advised the lemming masses to do so...

[dimwit]

Wide right hand turns (also known as the lazy boy turn) are an international phenomenon, and seem to be especially common among the elderly. I have always assumed this is caused by lack of arm strength but I can't find any studies on this. Seems to be a real black hole in terms of research.