'Auslander raus!'

[matsuki]

One has to note that of the more than million refugees only a tiny fraction (couple of thousand) misbehaved, but those who did misbehave deserve to be put in prison, followed by deportation.

(insert prison rape joke here)

Cultural differences should be addressed with some sort of required manners/laws test. (provide the materials to study and don't limit the number of times they can take it) Rape, muggings? Don't they chop off hands and penii for that in their mother countries?

[kurogane]

A nice idea, but this isn't an education and awareness problem it's an attitude problem. Unguarded women are sluts and looking for it, or at least fair game if you are. Sadly, Culchur isn't always nice or just a matter of education and understanding. It's also hardwired ignorance and stupidity that keeps getting recycled.

Well put, Russell. I thought the same thing: since it's the rotten apples anyways, catch them, lock them up, or just summarily deport them once convicted. This Care Bear pussyfooting is tiresome and only emboldens the filthy heathens among the nice ones.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Unprecedented sex harassment in Helsinki at New Year: police

Finnish police reported Thursday an unusually high level of sexual harassment in Helsinki on New Year's Eve and said they had been tipped off about plans by groups of asylum seekers to sexually harass women.

[...]

Security guards hired to patrol the city on New Year's Eve told police there had been "widespread sexual harassment" at a central square where around 20,000 people had gathered for celebrations.

Three sexual assaults allegedly took place at Helsinki's central railway station on New Year's Eve, where around 1,000 mostly Iraqi asylum seekers had converged.

"Police have... received information about three cases of sexual assault, of which two have been filed as complaints," Helsinki police said in a statement.

"The suspects were asylum seekers. The three were caught and taken into custody on the spot," Koskimaki told AFP.

Police said they had increased their preparedness "to an exceptional level" in Helsinki for New Year's Eve after being tipped off about possible problems.

"Ahead of New Year's Eve, the police caught wind of information that asylum seekers in the capital region possibly had similar plans to what the men gathered in Cologne's railway station have been reported to have had," police said in a statement.

[Mike Oxlong]

Unprecedented sex harassment in Helsinki at New Year, Finnish police report
Finnish police 'tipped off' about plans by groups of asylum seekers to sexually harass women

Finnish police reported on Thursday an unusually high level of sexual harassment in Helsinki on New Year's Eve and said they had been tipped off about plans by groups of asylum seekers to sexually harass women.

"There hasn't been this kind of harassment on previous New Year's Eves or other occasions for that matter... This is a completely new phenomenon in Helsinki," the Finnish capital's deputy police chief Ilkka Koskimaki told AFP.

Security guards hired to patrol the city on New Year's Eve told police there had been "widespread sexual harassment" at a central square where around 20,000 people had gathered for celebrations.

Three sexual assaults allegedly took place at Helsinki's central railway station on New Year's Eve, where around 1,000 mostly Iraqi asylum seekers had converged.

"Police have... received information about three cases of sexual assault, of which two have been filed as complaints," Helsinki police said in a statement.

"The suspects were asylum seekers. The three were caught and taken into custody on the spot," Ilkka Koskimaki told reporters.

Police said they had increased their preparedness "to an exceptional level" in Helsinki for New Year's Eve after being tipped off possible problems.

"Ahead of New Year's Eve, the police caught wind of information that asylum seekers in the capital region possibly had similar plans to what the men gathered in Cologne's railway station have been reported to have had," police said in a statement.

Cologne police said they had received 120 criminal complaints by Thursday and quoted witnesses as saying that groups of 20-30 young men "who appeared to be of Arab origin" had surrounded victims, assaulted them and in several cases robbed them.

Mr Koskimaki said police did not see a link between the Cologne and Helsinki incidents.

Shortly before New Year's Eve, Finnish police also arrested six Iraqis at an asylum residency centre in Kirkkonummi, west of Helsinki, suspected of "publicly inciting criminal behaviour". They were released on January 2.

According to Mr Koskimaki, the arrests were linked to the information police received in the run-up to New Year's Eve.

In November, Finnish authorities said around 10 asylum seekers were suspected of rapes, among the more than 1,000 rapes reported to police in 2015.

In 2015 the Nordic nation of 5.4 million inhabitants received over 32,000 mostly Iraqi asylum seekers, the fourth highest amount in Europe per capita and nearly 10 times more than Finland received in 2014.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... eport.html

[kurogane]

Terrible as it is for the victims, this should help to turn the Trojan Horse around and help free Europe from this fetid Saracen Horde.

WTF are they doing letting in men young enough and able enough to be rapists anyways? This is going to ruin Europe for generations (as a pleasant if usually overpriced tourist destination if not in other ways).

[kagemusha]

Terrible as it is for the victims, this should help to turn the Trojan Horse around and help free Europe from this fetid Saracen Horde.

WTF are they doing letting in men young enough and able enough to be rapists anyways? This is going to ruin Europe for generations (as a pleasant if usually overpriced tourist destination if not in other ways).

A bit too late for that. Closing the gates after the (Trojan) horses are already all in is not going to save western Europe. The governments are trying to borrow time by beating the dead horse of multiculturalism by letting the radical Muslims creating self-governed territories and by that not only denying any assimilation but also sacrificing the moderate ones and forcing them to join the Sharia or Die movement.

[Russell]

One has to note that of the more than million refugees only a tiny fraction (couple of thousand) misbehaved, but those who did misbehave deserve to be put in prison, followed by deportation.

(insert prison rape joke here)

Cultural differences should be addressed with some sort of required manners/laws test. (provide the materials to study and don't limit the number of times they can take it).

All foreigners wishing to live in the Netherlands have to take an exam on Dutch cultural values (whatever those may be; I suspect I would fail). Problems like those in other EU countries have not been reported there during the New Years festivities, but I am not sure what the reason for that is. There is a sizable population of Moroccans in the Netherlands, and though 25% of their men used to be in prison, I get the impression that the situation has improved in recent years. Maybe those Moroccans taught the refugees in some way. (now I think of it, no problems were reported in France either, which has a large population of Algerians)

However, there has been discussions in the Dutch press whether a separate course should be given to those refugees on how to treat women. Han Entzinger, professor in integration- en migration studies at the Erasmus University in Rotterdam, thinks that that is unnecessary, because that would be stigmatizing...



Shouldn't there then also be a course on how to treat homosexuals?, according to Entzinger.

Well, of course, professor, if there are problems in that area, a course wouldn't be so bad, wouldn't it?

[Coligny]

France these days have cops and military at every street corners... Yelling aloha snackbar get you shot dead...
Pretty sure we are one stepmaway from enforcing speed limits with attack choppers...

Already been through that in 94-95. It's not even disturbing. Those guys turn into a part of the landscape nearly overnight...

[Mike Oxlong]

Austrian Cops Accused Of ‘Covering Up’ New Year’s Sex Attacks

As the full extent of the New Year’s Eve migrant sex attacks in Germany begins to be exposed, it has emerged that a very similar series of assaults occurred in Austria, which the police allegedly deliberately tried to hide.

After Breitbart London broke the news of the Cologne attacks for the English speaking world, the German media and police were accused of orchestrating a cover up of the crimes due to the ethnic origin of the perpetrators.

Then, it began to emerge that attacks of the same nature also happened in “every major Germany city” as well as in Switzerland, Sweden, Finland and France in a single night...

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01 ... r-them-up/

[kurogane]

However, there has been discussions in the Dutch press whether a separate course should be given to those refugees on how to treat women. Han Entzinger, professor in integration- en migration studies at the Erasmus University in Rotterdam, thinks that that is unnecessary because that would be stigmatizing... Shouldn't there then also be a course on how to treat homosexuals?, according to Entzinger.

Well, of course, professor, if there are problems in that area, a course wouldn't be so bad, wouldn't it?

B........bbbb........but.........wouldn't that be stigmatising of homosexuality?

Is Stigmatisation the new Liberal Holy Grail or something? I keep reading about it when people discuss the Syrian refugee intake to Canada, and the need to avoid treating them as though they're new to the country while, of course, recognising and adapting to their Culture and Beliefs!!! as befits us as Canadians.........or some such muddleheaded rubbish.

Last time I checked most refugees were pretty aware they had just arrived and surrounded by people they don't know much about yet. Assuming communication is possible, smiling, nodding and helping worked pretty well through the bad years of the 70s. If I had a longer fuse I would help just so the poor refugees don't end up assuming Canadians are all Special Olympian cat ladies in training.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Germany confirms most mob attack suspects were asylum seekers

Germany said Friday most suspects in the mob violence that marred Cologne's New Year's Eve celebrations were asylum seekers, fuelling calls to quickly deport criminal migrants.

Unsettled by a record refugee influx, Germany has reacted with shock to news that women had to run a frightful gauntlet of groping, insults and robberies in an aggressive and drunken crush of around 1,000 men.

A week after the chaotic scenes outside Cologne railway station, federal police said they had identified 31 suspects whose alleged offences were "mostly theft and causing bodily harm".

Eighteen of them are asylum seekers, the interior ministry said.

Among the suspects are nine Algerians, eight Moroccans, five Iranians, four Syrians, two Germans and one citizen each from Iraq, Serbia and the United States, ministry spokesman Tobias Plate said.

[Coligny]

Austrian Cops Accused Of ‘Covering Up’ New Year’s Sex Attacks

As the full extent of the New Year’s Eve migrant sex attacks in Germany begins to be exposed, it has emerged that a very similar series of assaults occurred in Austria, which the police allegedly deliberately tried to hide.

After Breitbart London broke the news of the Cologne attacks for the English speaking world, the German media and police were accused of orchestrating a cover up of the crimes due to the ethnic origin of the perpetrators.

Then, it began to emerge that attacks of the same nature also happened in “every major Germany city” as well as in Switzerland, Sweden, Finland and France in a single night...

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01 ... r-them-up/

That's a bit weird, the Front Nationnal (close ties to the police from membership) would have used and abused that news to thr point of saturationg the market with T-shirt assking to expell the brownies.

[Mike Oxlong]

That's a bit weird, the Front Nationnal (close ties to the police from membership) would have used and abused that news to thr point of saturationg the market with T-shirt assking to expell the brownies.

It was published in Le Parisien.

http://www.leparisien.fr/versailles-780 ... 428711.php

Seems the incident happened earlier in December, but fits the pattern.

[Coligny]

That's a bit weird, the Front Nationnal (close ties to the police from membership) would have used and abused that news to thr point of saturationg the market with T-shirt assking to expell the brownies.

It was published in Le Parisien.

http://www.leparisien.fr/versailles-780 ... 428711.php

Seems the incident happened earlier in December, but fits the pattern.

One apparently isolated december 9 incident...

http://www.thelocal.fr/20160107/two-jai ... aris-train

[Mike Oxlong]

Le Gay Paree.

[Russell]

A week after the chaotic scenes outside Cologne railway station, federal police said they had identified 31 suspects whose alleged offences were "mostly theft and causing bodily harm".

Eighteen of them are asylum seekers, the interior ministry said.

Among the suspects are nine Algerians, eight Moroccans, five Iranians, four Syrians, two Germans and one citizen each from Iraq, Serbia and the United States, ministry spokesman Tobias Plate said.

OK, so that's a total of 31 people.

Trying to figure out what nationalities those 18 asylum seekers have. When I count the Syrians and the Iraqis I get five people. Who are the remaining 13 "asylum seekers"? I suppose the U.S. citizen is not among them?

[Tsuru]

Being Dutch I suppose you have heard of Marianne Vaatstra. I don't know how long you have been living in Japan, but you might want to look up the more recent developments in the case. At the time, the people of the village of Kollum were villified by the (inter)national media and called racists and bigots for even thinking that an asylum seeker could be responsible for committing the rape and muder of the 16 year old girl. Last year the truth came out. A (Dutch) scapegoat was found who was tried and convicted, and the person responsible (a migrant) had been quietly sent elsewhere. For 16 years the government was more interested in protecting a rapist and a murderer to avoid a backlash than in the safety of its own people. The number of official statements (aangiftes) is now at 376 for the events at Cologne alone, and any professional therapist will tell you that for sexual assaults the number of actual victims will be this number, many times over. And then there are reports of similar coordinated attacks having happened in Hamburg, Stuttgart, Vienna, Zurich and Helsinki.

I've been saying for over a year that letting the 15-35 year old single male crowd in freely is a huge mistake. Once they are in, they will never leave. Which is more important... not being called a racist or making sure these things don't happen again? Because with every day that goes by it becomes more apparent that western-European governments (at least up until now) are more concerned with looking good internationally and their political idealism than they are with doing the job they we are paying them for.... making sure we don't have to arm ourselves to protect ourselves, our loved ones and our property. At this rate I fear I will never be able to send my kids, or at least my daughter to sports practice alone when she becomes old enough to do so, and instead at some point have "the talk" and hand her a can of pepper spray to defend herself if worse comes to worse. At least I can find some solace in the fact that my kids have dual nationality and I can simply put them on a plane to Japan if living a normal life in safety in western Europe becomes impossible. This is a luxury not afforded to my friends and colleagues.

[Russell]

Being Dutch I suppose you have heard of Marianne Vaatstra. I don't know how long you have been living in Japan, but you might want to look up the more recent developments in the case. At the time, the people of the village of Kollum were villified by the (inter)national media and called racists and bigots for even thinking that an asylum seeker could be responsible for committing the rape and muder of the 16 year old girl. Last year the truth came out. A (Dutch) scapegoat was found who was tried and convicted, and the person responsible (a migrant) had been quietly sent elsewhere. For 16 years the government was more interested in protecting a rapist and a murderer to avoid a backlash than in the safety of its own people.

Tsuru, I read the Dutch media, so I am familiar with the Vaatstra case. I do not understand what you mean by "(Dutch) scapegoat". The case was cold until they conducted a large-scale DNA investigation of the local population. And way and behold, there was a match to the DNA of a local (Dutch) farmer, who subsequently confessed.

Unless there are any recent developments I am unaware of, I think this case proves exactly the opposite of what you are trying to say.

[Wage Slave]

Being Dutch I suppose you have heard of Marianne Vaatstra. I don't know how long you have been living in Japan, but you might want to look up the more recent developments in the case. At the time, the people of the village of Kollum were villified by the (inter)national media and called racists and bigots for even thinking that an asylum seeker could be responsible for committing the rape and muder of the 16 year old girl. Last year the truth came out. A (Dutch) scapegoat was found who was tried and convicted, and the person responsible (a migrant) had been quietly sent elsewhere. For 16 years the government was more interested in protecting a rapist and a murderer to avoid a backlash than in the safety of its own people.

Tsuru, I read the Dutch media, so I am familiar with the Vaatstra case. I do not understand what you mean by "(Dutch) scapegoat". The case was cold until they conducted a large-scale DNA investigation of the local population. And way and behold, there was a match to the DNA of a local (Dutch) farmer, who subsequently confessed.

Unless there are any recent developments I am unaware of, I think this case proves exactly the opposite of what you are trying to say.

Glad you said that because I was really, seriously confused by Tsuru's claims. As you say, the facts of the case argue the exact opposite. Or does he mean that this guy should be belived?

Another conspiracy theorist, Micha Kat, was arrested in January 2013 for threatening Jasper S.'s lawyer. He had accused the attorney of being "one of Jasper's executioners", involved in a conspiracy to use Jasper S. as a scapegoat. Kat was tried for making death threats, as well as several unrelated allegations, including that of Holocaust denial.

[Tsuru]

Being Dutch I suppose you have heard of Marianne Vaatstra. I don't know how long you have been living in Japan, but you might want to look up the more recent developments in the case. At the time, the people of the village of Kollum were villified by the (inter)national media and called racists and bigots for even thinking that an asylum seeker could be responsible for committing the rape and muder of the 16 year old girl. Last year the truth came out. A (Dutch) scapegoat was found who was tried and convicted, and the person responsible (a migrant) had been quietly sent elsewhere. For 16 years the government was more interested in protecting a rapist and a murderer to avoid a backlash than in the safety of its own people.

Tsuru, I read the Dutch media, so I am familiar with the Vaatstra case. I do not understand what you mean by "(Dutch) scapegoat". The case was cold until they conducted a large-scale DNA investigation of the local population. And way and behold, there was a match to the DNA of a local (Dutch) farmer, who subsequently confessed.

Unless there are any recent developments I am unaware of, I think this case proves exactly the opposite of what you are trying to say.

I wasn't aware DNA matching by itself yields sufficient evidence to convict someone of a crime... and anyone who lives in Asia knows how much a confession is worth. At the risk of being branded a conspiracy nut you have to know there is much more to this case than meets the eye, and it involves our notorious head prosecutor J.D. A name so tainted with controversy I'm reluctant to even write it down in full. Wim Dankbaar has put together a case that at least should make you doubt the official story.

Glad you said that because I was really, seriously confused by Tsuru's claims. As you say, the facts of the case argue the exact opposite. Or does he mean that this guy should be belived?

Another conspiracy theorist, Micha Kat, was arrested in January 2013 for threatening Jasper S.'s lawyer. He had accused the attorney of being "one of Jasper's executioners", involved in a conspiracy to use Jasper S. as a scapegoat. Kat was tried for making death threats, as well as several unrelated allegations, including that of Holocaust denial.

What better way of shutting down anyone who still has doubts than having this guy in the news. He is a holocaust denier, well of course that must mean he is full of shit about everything else, too.

[Russell]

Being Dutch I suppose you have heard of Marianne Vaatstra. I don't know how long you have been living in Japan, but you might want to look up the more recent developments in the case. At the time, the people of the village of Kollum were villified by the (inter)national media and called racists and bigots for even thinking that an asylum seeker could be responsible for committing the rape and muder of the 16 year old girl. Last year the truth came out. A (Dutch) scapegoat was found who was tried and convicted, and the person responsible (a migrant) had been quietly sent elsewhere. For 16 years the government was more interested in protecting a rapist and a murderer to avoid a backlash than in the safety of its own people.

Tsuru, I read the Dutch media, so I am familiar with the Vaatstra case. I do not understand what you mean by "(Dutch) scapegoat". The case was cold until they conducted a large-scale DNA investigation of the local population. And way and behold, there was a match to the DNA of a local (Dutch) farmer, who subsequently confessed.

Unless there are any recent developments I am unaware of, I think this case proves exactly the opposite of what you are trying to say.

I wasn't aware DNA matching by itself yields sufficient evidence to convict someone of a crime... and anyone who lives in Asia knows how much a confession is worth. At the risk of being branded a conspiracy nut you have to know there is much more to this case than meets the eye, and it involves our notorious head prosecutor J.D. A name so tainted with controversy I'm reluctant to even write it down in full. Wim Dankbaar has put together a case that at least should make you doubt the official story.

The DNA profile was based on sperm found on the body of Marianne Vaatstra. Sperm has a special status in DNA investigations, because it cannot be extracted involuntarily.

Regarding confessions, the murder took place in the Netherlands. I am pretty sure there are much less false confessions there than in a certain Asian country called Japan.

Regarding Joris Demmink, the fact that there are allegations of questionable convictions due to him being subject to blackmailing through his suspected pedophile activities, does not necessarily mean that all convictions under him were false. Note that Demmink retired from his position on 1 November 2012, while the DNA match to the Dutch suspect was established later that November, and the court case was in 2013.

Glad you said that because I was really, seriously confused by Tsuru's claims. As you say, the facts of the case argue the exact opposite. Or does he mean that this guy should be belived?

Another conspiracy theorist, Micha Kat, was arrested in January 2013 for threatening Jasper S.'s lawyer. He had accused the attorney of being "one of Jasper's executioners", involved in a conspiracy to use Jasper S. as a scapegoat. Kat was tried for making death threats, as well as several unrelated allegations, including that of Holocaust denial.

What better way of shutting down anyone who still has doubts than having this guy in the news. He is a holocaust denier, well of course that must mean he is full of shit about everything else, too.

Hmm, Micha Kat does not come across as a reliable person to me, sorry to say it.

[Tsuru]

The DNA profile was based on sperm found on the body of Marianne Vaatstra. Sperm has a special status in DNA investigations, because it cannot be extracted involuntarily.

Are you sure about this?

Regarding confessions, the murder took place in the Netherlands. I am pretty sure there are much less false confessions there than in a certain Asian country called Japan.

Extracting confessions under duress is certainly not something I would consider to be beyond the NL justice system.

Regarding Joris Demmink, the fact that there are allegations of questionable convictions due to him being subject to blackmailing through his suspected pedophile activities, does not necessarily mean that all convictions under him were false. Note that Demmink retired from his position on 1 November 2012, while the DNA match to the Dutch suspect was established later that November, and the court case was in 2013.

Most of the events alluded to in Wim Dankbaar's book take place during his tenure. And when someone resigns does his influence on the organisation he lead immediately cease to exist?

Hmm, Micha Kat does not come across as a reliable person to me, sorry to say it.

What does he have to do with me? The only thing that the fact that his name comes up when you look at this case tells you, is that he the mere association with him can be used to discredit anyone who dares to look beyond the official story. Read the book by Wim Dankbaar and then tell me I'm full of shit. If you buy it, read it and still believe the official line he will even give you your money back

[Wage Slave]

Being Dutch I suppose you have heard of Marianne Vaatstra. I don't know how long you have been living in Japan, but you might want to look up the more recent developments in the case. At the time, the people of the village of Kollum were villified by the (inter)national media and called racists and bigots for even thinking that an asylum seeker could be responsible for committing the rape and muder of the 16 year old girl. Last year the truth came out. A (Dutch) scapegoat was found who was tried and convicted, and the person responsible (a migrant) had been quietly sent elsewhere. For 16 years the government was more interested in protecting a rapist and a murderer to avoid a backlash than in the safety of its own people.

Tsuru, I read the Dutch media, so I am familiar with the Vaatstra case. I do not understand what you mean by "(Dutch) scapegoat". The case was cold until they conducted a large-scale DNA investigation of the local population. And way and behold, there was a match to the DNA of a local (Dutch) farmer, who subsequently confessed.

Unless there are any recent developments I am unaware of, I think this case proves exactly the opposite of what you are trying to say.

I wasn't aware DNA matching by itself yields sufficient evidence to convict someone of a crime... and anyone who lives in Asia knows how much a confession is worth. At the risk of being branded a conspiracy nut you have to know there is much more to this case than meets the eye, and it involves our notorious head prosecutor J.D. A name so tainted with controversy I'm reluctant to even write it down in full. Wim Dankbaar has put together a case that at least should make you doubt the official story.

The DNA profile was based on sperm found on the body of Marianne Vaatstra. Sperm has a special status in DNA investigations, because it cannot be extracted involuntarily.

Regarding confessions, the murder took place in the Netherlands. I am pretty sure there are much less false confessions there than in a certain Asian country called Japan.

Regarding Joris Demmink, the fact that there are allegations of questionable convictions due to him being subject to blackmailing through his suspected pedophile activities, does not necessarily mean that all convictions under him were false. Note that Demmink retired from his position on 1 November 2012, while the DNA match to the Dutch suspect was established later that November, and the court case was in 2013.

Glad you said that because I was really, seriously confused by Tsuru's claims. As you say, the facts of the case argue the exact opposite. Or does he mean that this guy should be belived?

Another conspiracy theorist, Micha Kat, was arrested in January 2013 for threatening Jasper S.'s lawyer. He had accused the attorney of being "one of Jasper's executioners", involved in a conspiracy to use Jasper S. as a scapegoat. Kat was tried for making death threats, as well as several unrelated allegations, including that of Holocaust denial.

What better way of shutting down anyone who still has doubts than having this guy in the news. He is a holocaust denier, well of course that must mean he is full of shit about everything else, too.

Hmm, Micha Kat does not come across as a reliable person to me, sorry to say it.

Exactly right. Trying to say a DNA match to blood and and semen found at the crime scene is unreliable evidence is a nonsense. And yes, the confession happened in the Netherlands under Dutch law/procedures. What's the Far East got to do with it? The confession came not during a police interview/interrogation but after the accused had met his lawyer.

What is clear is that the police in Cologne were far too relaxed and tolerant about reports of sexual assault. There were about 100 of them and a collection of about 1,000 assorted young men. There were probably almost as many police officers as there were gropers. What happened was a disgrace and is absolutely intolerable but the conclusion that no woman is safe anywhere in Europe because all the authorities are terrified of being accused of being racist is not credible.

Rather like the grooming scandals in the UK I would say that a bigger issue is a police attitude that women and girls who are exploited or attacked usually ask for it or at least provoke it. There needs to be a crackdown for sure but there also needs to be a permanent change of attitude on the part of both the police and some immigrant males.

[Wage Slave]

Tsuru, if you like that kind of book then try this:

Chariots_Of_The_Gods.jpg

Lots and lots of people believed it at the time. He was convincing to many. And yeah, just because he was a convicted fraudster and fantasist doesn't mean his book has to be a pack of lies and falsehoods. His character is neither here nor there.

[Tsuru]

Exactly right. Trying to say a DNA match to blood and and semen found at the crime scene is unreliable evidence is a nonsense. And yes, the confession happened in the Netherlands under Dutch law/procedures. What's the Far East got to do with it? The confession came not during a police interview/interrogation but after the accused had met his lawyer.

DNA evidence by itself is not reliable enough to place someone at the crime scene as it can be planted. There is nothing else apart from this and his confession. The statement he gave is full of inconsistencies, and people who spoke up and went to the police to tell what they had seen shorty after the actual events were not taken seriously or even silenced.

What is clear is that the police in Cologne were far too relaxed and tolerant about reports of sexual assault. There were about 100 of them and a collection of about 1,000 assorted young men. There were probably almost as many police officers as there were gropers. What happened was a disgrace and is absolutely intolerable but the conclusion that no woman is safe anywhere in Europe because all the authorities are terrified of being accused of being racist is not credible.

Not "anywhere in Europe", but going out on a saturday night is certainly becoming an increasingly interesting experience. This is definitely different from even the 1980s and 1990s, when the official crime figures where much higher.

Rather like the grooming scandals in the UK I would say that a bigger issue is a police attitude that women and girls who are exploited or attacked usually ask for it or at least provoke it. There needs to be a crackdown for sure but there also needs to be a permanent change of attitude on the part of both the police and some immigrant males.

Most of it has been going on for over a decade, and is only coming to the surface at anti-immigrant attitudes become more accepted in every day conversation, and simply because the internet makes the same events more visible. I know that the plural of "anecdote" is not "data", but talk to anyone who has lived in any large European city and they will open up to you, like a fountain of words.

But then again, there are still the people who are seriously saying "yes but white european men are rapists too!", as if somehow that makes it ok. And the usual victim blaming bullshit. Despite what government officials want to make us believe the situation is not under control. The least we can do is stop more from coming in until we figure out the existing problems. I've been saying for years we need to reinstate border controls in the EU to stop trafficking of weapons and people... but for some in positions of power, giving up Schengen means a political defeat and is unacceptable.

[Russell]

Exactly right. Trying to say a DNA match to blood and and semen found at the crime scene is unreliable evidence is a nonsense. And yes, the confession happened in the Netherlands under Dutch law/procedures. What's the Far East got to do with it? The confession came not during a police interview/interrogation but after the accused had met his lawyer.

DNA evidence by itself is not reliable enough to place someone at the crime scene as it can be planted.

Then they first should've extracted his sperm. Demmink giving a blowjob to the suspect?

There is nothing else apart from this and his confession. The statement he gave is full of inconsistencies, and people who spoke up and went to the police to tell what they had seen shorty after the actual events were not taken seriously or even silenced.

I suppose it's all the fault of his lawyer then.

What is clear is that the police in Cologne were far too relaxed and tolerant about reports of sexual assault. There were about 100 of them and a collection of about 1,000 assorted young men. There were probably almost as many police officers as there were gropers. What happened was a disgrace and is absolutely intolerable but the conclusion that no woman is safe anywhere in Europe because all the authorities are terrified of being accused of being racist is not credible.

Not "anywhere in Europe", but going out on a saturday night is certainly becoming an increasingly interesting experience. This is definitely different from even the 1980s and 1990s, when the official crime figures where much higher.

Admittedly, I haven't gone out on a Saturday night in a big Dutch city in the last decade, but I haven't heard friends or family living in the Netherlands stating similar worries as you.

Rather like the grooming scandals in the UK I would say that a bigger issue is a police attitude that women and girls who are exploited or attacked usually ask for it or at least provoke it. There needs to be a crackdown for sure but there also needs to be a permanent change of attitude on the part of both the police and some immigrant males.

Most of it has been going on for over a decade, and is only coming to the surface at anti-immigrant attitudes become more accepted in every day conversation, and simply because the internet makes the same events more visible. I know that the plural of "anecdote" is not "data", but talk to anyone who has lived in any large European city and they will open up to you, like a fountain of words.

My sister lives in Rotterdam, and though she tells me of the usual shit that was there two decades ago, it's not like she is overwhelmed by problems caused by immigrants.

Places like Katendrecht in Rotterdam and de Zeedijk in Amsterdam have actually improved dramatically compared to 30 years ago. There are many places like that.

But then again, there are still the people who are seriously saying "yes but white european men are rapists too!", as if somehow that makes it ok. And the usual victim blaming bullshit. Despite what government officials want to make us believe the situation is not under control. The least we can do is stop more from coming in until we figure out the existing problems. I've been saying for years we need to reinstate border controls in the EU to stop trafficking of weapons and people... but for some in positions of power, giving up Schengen means a political defeat and is unacceptable.

What I advocate is to stay rational. Fact is that there were no problems reported in the Netherlands with asylum seekers. That may be thanks to the Dutch policy to provide each asylum seeker with rules in writing on what is and what is not allowed, in addition to courses they have to follow.

I am not saying that there aren't problems with men of Arab ethnicity (especially the Moroccans in the Netherlands), but let's not exaggerate it.

I do have the impression that a lot of men traveling to Europe from the Middle East are economic refugees rather than political refugees, because many of them apparently leave their wife and kids back there in order to clear the way for them to arrive later. That does not sound like they are in danger. So yes, send them back as soon as possible by all means.

Regarding Schengen, I see no problem in suspending it temporarily.

However, I see these as problems in themselves that need rational solutions, and it is not necessary to result to mass hysteria and belief in conspiracies in this case.

I am especially disappointed by the further rise of Wilders in the polls who now would get 41 seats in the 150-seat parliament, making him by far the biggest party. This guy is completely unreliable and irresponsible, as he has shown before.

[kurogane]

However, I see these as problems in themselves that need rational solutions, and it is not necessary to result to mass hysteria and belief in conspiracies in this case.

That is well said. I am quite sure Spock would agree, as he would agree with me when I say that the Care Bear Cat Lady response to the refugee crisis is far more irrational than the calls for discussion and debate about this new Trojan Horse, but as you said their childish insistence on immediate hugs and hot chocolate doesn't justify similar antics by critics of their inane policies. I do fully get what Tsuru is on about though: these are not the sort of migrants Europe should seek, and they could easily ruin Europe as a tourist destination for 10 years or more, and tourism is far more important economically than a bunch of grasping, whiney skivers shopping for a better handout. Plus I was thinking of going to Europe for a few months this coming summer, so it's personal too (just so my opposition doesn't sound like it's based only on lofty principles and informed analysis)

[Russell]

Kurogane, just go to Europe coming summer for your holidays and enjoy.

Nothing to worry about.

[Wage Slave]

Very well said Russell. Exactly right - stay rational, don't pander to racists and don't stir up racist mobs even though it's always easy. The Vatstra case was actually a good example of how not to behave:

The blame was quickly pointed to inhabitants of the local asylum seekers' refuge, and a riot against asylum seekers ensued.[1]

The other point is that immigrants and refugees are not angels. No-one is and it is wrong to start a witch hunt/call for collective punishment every time one of them commits a crime. Of course the perpetrator(s) should face the full force of the law but that's as far as it goes.

A certain person here is only too keen to point out the crimes of immigrants in Japan and we are only too quick to point out that there are just as many, per capita, crimes committed by Japanese people. It is bad and the person needs to be punished. It does not justify attacking the whole group or blaming the whole group. That doesn't imply victim blaming, it is just rudimentary justice.

In the case of Muslim men's attitudes to women then there is a problem that needs to be addressed. There are traditional and cultural attitudes that are totally unacceptable in Europe and they need to be made very very aware of that. After that it is a policing issue. I still think what happened in Cologne was partly a failure of the police to take it seriously as soon as it started.

[kurogane]

In the case of Muslim men's attitudes to women then there is a problem that needs to be addressed. There are traditional and cultural attitudes that are totally unacceptable in Europe and they need to be made very very aware of that. After that it is a policing issue. I still think what happened in Cologne was partly a failure of the police to take it seriously as soon as it started.

Well put. We are going to have quite a time in Canada trying to drag our 25,000 Syrian refugees into the 20th century mostly because the people whose livelihoods rely on the pity industries are so vocal about what we need to do to accommodate them, and they get very shirty very quickly when it is politely suggested that the onus is on the refugees, with proper help, guidance, and consideration for their needs and their situation. I think its obscene that an entire industrial lobby can't seem to get their head around the obvious idea that the refugees already know that, and that the vast majority will do just that with all the energy they can muster. I genuinely fear the cat ladies are a genuine threat to the lefty/liberal consensus. Most people simply don't have long enough fuses or muddled enough thinking to tolerate their apologetic pandering for as long as it will take to resolve this crisis.

I wonder if the police were not under orders or guidance of some sort to pussy foot around the refugees and migrants and so were too slow to respond with the clubs they should have been bashing skulls with. That sounds like it was an absolute shitshow of policing. The Germans have dropped the ball completely on this one, which is a crying shame for all the aged, women and children actually worthy of asylum.