Growing Surveillance and Control

[kurogane]

If nothing else you're taking the topic of the thread to heart

[legion]

They were tracking muslim residents of Japan pretty thoroughly without court orders.

[citation needed]

Do you know how to use an internet search engine?

that's not how conversation works... you shit on the carpet, you back your turd...

bow to your sensei

I know this stuff mostly because I do this old fashioned thing called "meeting people for coffee", one of my buddies is an American muslim living in Japan. The US also monitors its muslim citizens in Japan.

[Russell]

If nothing else you're taking the topic of the thread to heart

Oh, you feel the victim now?!?

[matsuki]

So two of my friends in the area have been stopped recently for walking while gaijin. I didn't think much of it but friday night I was driving to a friends place to drop off my dog in Take's backyard (Tama) when I passed a patrol car who stared me down and then tailed me for about 8km. (don't they usually stay in their own jurisdictions?) Eventually they pulled me over (which I had fun with, signalling and moving to the right to "get out of their way" when the muffled blkjkfdhgkufdhhdkf came on over their speakers) When they heard my explanation, they laughed and admitted it was pretty incomprehensible....then went straight to questioning and demanding to search me without even telling me why they pulled me over....I stopped them, asked why. They claimed my license plate light was out and it was worthy of a ticket. I get out and take a look with them....one side is lit up brightly (LED) and the other side is a bit dim (maybe loose?) but still lit. No ticket in my future. (Coligny, is that even a law? If so, even if one is lit, I assume it's still legal??)

So anyway, they dun fucked up....apologies? On my way, yeah?

Not so fast.....want to see in your trunk, your wallet, your glovebox, feel up your dog, etc. I didn't have the time to fuck with them much more so I let them do their search without much fuss but I was questioning them as they opened everything. "you know, a proper criminal hides shit under the seat, not in the glove box!" They wouldn't even say what they were looking for other than they knew I wasn't a druggie because my car didn't have that kind of smell. Eventually they gave up, gave me back my license, and apologized for the inconvenient "safety check."

Fast forward to last night, yakiniku with some friends and their relatives and one of them happens to be a cop in the area. He gave me an apologetic "sucks to be you but that won't be the last time...we're under orders to stop/search gaijin recently." He didn't have much of an explanation other than it's what he's been told to do and they often catch gaijin with drugs, expired visas, and illegal weapons (knives?)

[Coligny]

No idea. maybe one of those laws that are called up only when they need a pretext (in case of really busted light).
Now one bulb darker than the other... unless you dig in the int'l standards that specify the lumens necessary for back license plate lighting and they have the equipment for checking the values on your car... But remember that most dealership offer green backlit plates so the rules seems to be quite ... free flowing...
And one bulb out of 2 while not good for a shiaken should be enough for daily driving. If not, all bulb should always be working not to be risking a fine... I got 7 bulbs for the stop lights... so I'm never gonna sleep again...

Did they "ask" if they could search your car ? Because that would be a standard trick.. guilt trip over the tail light then ask to check the car and forget about the bulb/fine.

The kicker being that if they "ask" that mean they might be a bit short on the legal power side. So... stopping you for a dubious reason and performing what might be unauthorized search might start to make a lot...

I was once stopped -maybe- because I switched lane just before stopping at the red light. The cops assumed there was yellow lines forbidding to switch lanes but it was the standard dotted "do as you please" stuff. after recovering from the shock of dealing with a gaijin (with matching "awww shit..." faces) they looked around the Note and just said that the front standby light should not be blue. (the stuff they couldn't see from the back...) and tried to leave. When I popped the hood and took my spare bulbs bag out to replace them on the spot. While they were sort of trying to watch through the windows inside to see if I was smuggling north korean ballistic missile they were not touching or opening anything even when I asked them to turn the stalk to check the new bulbs were properly fitted. They really looked like the only thing in their mind was to GTFO ASAP...

If I remember well the whole stop ID at will works only if you have at least a bicycle or if a crime have been committed nearby no ?
As for the patrol gaijin car stop... Maybe... but from behind not always easy to spot the gaijin...

[Grumpy Gramps]

one of them happens to be a cop in the area. He gave me an apologetic "sucks to be you but that won't be the last time...we're under orders to stop/search gaijin recently."

Hope, this is Tokyo only. I never carry anything but my little torchlight and a few poopie bags, when I take my doggies for a spin around the 'hood. Would suck, if I had to start to carry my man-purse to the dog-loo.

[Yokohammer]

Aw, it's just the cops practicing their "Welcome to Japan" routine in preparation for all the foreigners who'll be rolling in for the 2020 olympics.

[Coligny]

Aw, it's just the cops practicing their "Welcome to Japan" routine in preparation for all the foreigners who'll be rolling in for the 2020 olympics.

I have an idea for a new TV reality show...

It will be called "Big T mighty surprise police cavity search"

Someone has the phone number of FujiTV, I need to borrow one of their field reporting vans...
Also... any tips for cheap hazmat suits ?

[wuchan]

Just whip out your smart phone and take their photo for your records. They always back down before you have a chance to unlock it.

[matsuki]

No idea. maybe one of those laws that are called up only when they need a pretext (in case of really busted light).
Now one bulb darker than the other... unless you dig in the int'l standards that specify the lumens necessary for back license plate lighting and they have the equipment for checking the values on your car... But remember that most dealership offer green backlit plates so the rules seems to be quite ... free flowing...
And one bulb out of 2 while not good for a shiaken should be enough for daily driving. If not, all bulb should always be working not to be risking a fine... I got 7 bulbs for the stop lights... so I'm never gonna sleep again...

My guess is, if there really is any sort of illumination law, it doesn't specify lumens and considering the number of bulbs back there isn't standard, just having one working wouldn't make you ticket-worthy...but going to remedy that nonetheless.

Did they "ask" if they could search your car ? Because that would be a standard trick.. guilt trip over the tail light then ask to check the car and forget about the bulb/fine.

The kicker being that if they "ask" that mean they might be a bit short on the legal power side. So... stopping you for a dubious reason and performing what might be unauthorized search might start to make a lot...

Yes, it was a voluntary search...the last time I refused to do what they wanted me to voluntary, they called for backup and backed a van up to box me in, man handled me, and spent over an hour trying to convince me to do something "voluntarily." I didn't have time for that and was more curious about what they where so sure they would find.

If I remember well the whole stop ID at will works only if you have at least a bicycle or if a crime have been committed nearby no ?
As for the patrol gaijin car stop... Maybe... but from behind not always easy to spot the gaijin...

They locked eyes with me awhile back and then started tailing me. No doubt if was a case of "Let's search this gaijin" and it just took them that long to come up with a reason to pull me over.

Just whip out your smart phone and take their photo for your records. They always back down before you have a chance to unlock it.

Already had my driving recorder angled to the driver-side window and the rear, caught it all on vid.

Aw, it's just the cops practicing their "Welcome to Japan" routine in preparation for all the foreigners who'll be rolling in for the 2020 olympics.

Quick, pat down the dog, he might be stashing drugs in it's fur!!

[Coligny]

Already had my driving recorder angled to the driver-side window and the rear, caught it all on vid.

I think the point is to show them that you are going to/already recording. Not to get ninja video...

[yanpa]

Did they "ask" if they could search your car ? Because that would be a standard trick.. guilt trip over the tail light then ask to check the car and forget about the bulb/fine.

The kicker being that if they "ask" that mean they might be a bit short on the legal power side. So... stopping you for a dubious reason and performing what might be unauthorized search might start to make a lot...

Yes, it was a voluntary search...the last time I refused to do what they wanted me to voluntary, they called for backup and backed a van up to box me in, man handled me, and spent over an hour trying to convince me to do something "voluntarily." I didn't have time for that and was more curious about what they where so sure they would find.

A shipping container full of scary stick-wielding terrorists?

[wagyl]

Well at the very least this suggests that there are no outstanding warrants against you

[Takechanpoo]

an american guy at his 40s sued tokyo metropolis for polices illegal search his car without a search warrant
http://www.sankei.com/affairs/news/1606 ... 27-n1.html
https://www.bengo4.com/kokusai/n_4817/

[Yokohammer]

an american guy at his 40s sued tokyo metropolis for polices illegal search his car without a search warrant
http://www.sankei.com/affairs/news/1606 ... 27-n1.html
https://www.bengo4.com/kokusai/n_4817/

Sounds like that cop is quite an a-hole. 「なんで外人がこの車を運転するの？」is just a really fucking stupid (and racist) thing to say. If everything the guy is claiming is true, I sincerely hope the cop and his boss and his boss's boss get slapped with some meaningful punishment.


~ Tapatalking ~

[Coligny]

Well... Remember the saying

If you don't want to upset anyone...
Don't say anything, don't do anything, don't be anything...

Not this kind of issues in the Big T with all the Kraut expat driving company cars of their brand...

[yanpa]

an american guy at his 40s sued tokyo metropolis for polices illegal search his car without a search warrant
http://www.sankei.com/affairs/news/1606 ... 27-n1.html
https://www.bengo4.com/kokusai/n_4817/

Sounds like that cop is quite an a-hole. 「なんで外人がこの車を運転するの？」is just a really fucking stupid (and racist) thing to say. If everything the guy is claiming is true, I sincerely hope the cop and his boss and his boss's boss get slapped with some meaningful punishment.

As an American shurely he should be insisting on the principle of reciprocality regarding appropriate treatment for the misdemeanour of being an ethnically different foreigner and possibly wearing funny clothes while in charge of a functioning metabolism: he deserves a good tasering at the very least, maybe a bit of asset forfeiture and a SWAT team calling at his home to wreak mayhem and maybe shoot some pets.

Nah, actually I hope he wins, if this is true.

[matsuki]

Well at the very least this suggests that there are no outstanding warrants against you

He didn't show up at the latest FG/J hockey event...maybe worried I'd be there?

an american guy at his 40s sued tokyo metropolis for polices illegal search his car without a search warrant
http://www.sankei.com/affairs/news/1606 ... 27-n1.html
https://www.bengo4.com/kokusai/n_4817/

Sounds like that cop is quite an a-hole. 「なんで外人がこの車を運転するの？」is just a really fucking stupid (and racist) thing to say. If everything the guy is claiming is true, I sincerely hope the cop and his boss and his boss's boss get slapped with some meaningful punishment.

Mine were a bit more polite but the assholes I got a few years ago were literally screaming in my face with shit like "I don't go to your country and refuse the police there! Why are you refusing us?!" Once again, the concept of voluntary is lost on them...

[Yokohammer]

As an American shurely he should be insisting on the principle of reciprocality regarding appropriate treatment for the misdemeanour of being an ethnically different foreigner and possibly wearing funny clothes while in charge of a functioning metabolism: ...

Not to mention being taken to the police station and interrogated for three and a half hours, and then forced to write an apology for having a multitool with a blade that was probably legal in the car (less than 5cm?). That last bit sounds like they had to do something, anything, to justify putting the guy through all of that for doing absolutely nothing.

Again: if the guy's claims are true. But if he's pursuing a lawsuit against the Tokyo Metropolis, which is not something you'd normally take on lightly, they probably are.

[matsuki]

As an American shurely he should be insisting on the principle of reciprocality regarding appropriate treatment for the misdemeanour of being an ethnically different foreigner and possibly wearing funny clothes while in charge of a functioning metabolism: ...

Not to mention being taken to the police station and interrogated for three and a half hours, and then forced to write an apology for having a multitool with a blade that was probably legal in the car (less than 5cm?). That last bit sounds like they had to do something, anything, to justify putting the guy through all of that for doing absolutely nothing.

Again: if the guy's claims are true. But if he's pursuing a lawsuit against the Tokyo Metropolis, which is not something you'd normally take on lightly, they probably are.

THIS

[Takechanpoo]

i recommend you not to make eye contact with omawaris when you come across them. because their stereotyped thinking brains are trained to think someone making eye contact with them has something guilty to hide.

[Coligny]

Well at the very least this suggests that there are no outstanding warrants against you

He didn't show up at the latest FG/J hockey event...maybe worried I'd be there?

an american guy at his 40s sued tokyo metropolis for polices illegal search his car without a search warrant
http://www.sankei.com/affairs/news/1606 ... 27-n1.html
https://www.bengo4.com/kokusai/n_4817/

Sounds like that cop is quite an a-hole. 「なんで外人がこの車を運転するの？」is just a really fucking stupid (and racist) thing to say. If everything the guy is claiming is true, I sincerely hope the cop and his boss and his boss's boss get slapped with some meaningful punishment.

Mine were a bit more polite but the assholes I got a few years ago were literally screaming in my face with shit like "I don't go to your country and refuse the police there! Why are you refusing us?!" Once again, the concept of voluntary is lost on them...

Just a question... i all the b33yotcheze you porked... how many might have police links... Because sometimes it feels like you are not fully factoring in how small this fucking planet is.

And I'm pretty sure you don't have this guy on speed dial for backup

The-Equalizer-Edward-Woodward.jpg

[kurogane]

an american guy at his 40s sued tokyo metropolis for polices illegal search his car without a search warrant
http://www.sankei.com/affairs/news/1606 ... 27-n1.html
https://www.bengo4.com/kokusai/n_4817/

Sounds like that cop is quite an a-hole. 「なんで外人がこの車を運転するの？」is just a really fucking stupid (and racist) thing to say. If everything the guy is claiming is true, I sincerely hope the cop and his boss and his boss's boss get slapped with some meaningful punishment.

..............Once again, the concept of voluntary is lost on them...

Or, theirs on you..............though this would not be funny even if I'm right. That lawsuit is interesting: he admits to being an American, so it might be just a typical kneejerk reaction, but even if only 1/4 of it is true, good for him and good luck.
This bit is the one I have noticed examples of lately:
「なんで外人がこの車を運転するの？」, as though its an issue of propriety and face rather than income and preference. It would seem the Saxon is not the only one angry of late. Apparently we are supposed to be the poor and huddling rather than the overpaid and over here of yesteryear.

Anyways, I like YokoH's idea of a run up to practice welcoming the world in 4 years, but there is also a more pressing concern:
Japanese House of Councillors election, 2016
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_ ... tion,_2016

PS OOOOK!! CHOTTO MATTA! from reading the second article linked, it would appear our hopes and support might be misplaced:
https://www.bengo4.com/kokusai/n_4817/
米国人男性「警察の違法捜査を受け、PTSDが悪化」慰謝料求め、東京都を提訴

It might be funny to start a crowdsource and buy him a new set of frilly panties and a jaunty hair ribbon for his court appearance.

[Yokohammer]

PS OOOOK!! CHOTTO MATTA! from reading the second article linked, it would appear our hopes and support might be misplaced:
https://www.bengo4.com/kokusai/n_4817/
米国人男性「警察の違法捜査を受け、PTSDが悪化」慰謝料求め、東京都を提訴

It might be funny to start a crowdsource and buy him a new set of frilly panties and a jaunty hair ribbon for his court appearance.

The guy has engaged a lawyer. Said lawyer will be advising the plaintiff and writing the brief, employing strategies that have at least a chance of working in a case against a normally immovable behemoth.

[kurogane]

Yes. I think that is how legal cases usually work, isn't it? Frivolous claims of PTSD aside, I wish him luck.

[Yokohammer]

Yes. I think that is how legal cases usually work, isn't it? Frivolous claims of PTSD aside, I wish him luck.

The point being that PTSD, as frivolous as it sounds, could very well be a strategy chosen and approved by the lawyer. Victim impact is probably more important than legal details in this case, as it is in many Japanese court cases.


~ Tapatalking ~

[kurogane]

Oh sure, I get that. Legal maneuvering or not it's a disgusting trivialisation of a horrid affliction; what happened to him was not traumatic. I would have thought the mention of loss of reputation, time and the inconvenience, along with the basic illegality or impropriety of the search itself would be more than enough in a Japanese court case of this sort. And it would haven't trivialised PTSD, which should not be trivialised at all for any reason.

[Yokohammer]

Oh sure, I get that. Legal maneuvering or not it's a disgusting trivialisation of a horrid affliction; what happened to him was not traumatic. I would have thought the mention of loss of reputation, time and the inconvenience, along with the basic illegality or impropriety of the search itself would be more than enough in a Japanese court case of this sort. And it would haven't trivialised PTSD, which should not be trivialised at all for any reason.

I get what you're saying here too, and agree up to a point, but if bending the definition of PTSD a little contributes to feeding the cop(s) in this case a nice big helping of crow with egg-on-face for dessert, then I'm prepared to let it slide.


~ Tapatalking ~

[Wage Slave]

Oh sure, I get that. Legal maneuvering or not it's a disgusting trivialisation of a horrid affliction; what happened to him was not traumatic. I would have thought the mention of loss of reputation, time and the inconvenience, along with the basic illegality or impropriety of the search itself would be more than enough in a Japanese court case of this sort. And it would haven't trivialised PTSD, which should not be trivialised at all for any reason.

I get what you're saying here too, and agree up to a point, but if bending the definition of PTSD a little contributes to feeding the cop(s) in this case a nice big helping of crow with egg-on-face for dessert, then I'm prepared to let it slide.


~ Tapatalking ~

Agreed.We do not know what the trauma was or if he has a reliable diagnosis. It may be that there was a significant trauma - Afghanistan and Iraq, among other places, are capable of delivering that. However, if it is affected rather than real PTSD then shame on him - That's as bad or even worse than what the police did.

[Yokohammer]

Agreed.We do not know what the trauma was or if he has a reliable diagnosis. It may be that there was a significant trauma - Afghanistan and Iraq, among other places, are capable of delivering that. However, if it is affected rather than real PTSD then shame on him - That's as bad or even worse than what the police did.

Yes. People have different thresholds, and for some a severe grilling by the gestapo or just plain old bullying will do it, especially if they're already on the edge. Lots of it going around up here after 3/11 by the way, and I suspect there are plenty of simmering cases ready to boil over into full-on symptoms when a suitable trigger comes along. It can be difficult to pinpoint the root cause. I'll go back and check the article again, but I think the claim is that the incident "worsened" the guy's PTSD?

Be right back after a quick check ...

EDIT: Yup, the wording is: 「当時患っていたPTSD（心的外傷後ストレス障害）の症状が悪化したなど・・・」, which translates roughly as "exacerbated the PTSD symptoms he was suffering from at the time". So there ya go, the claim isn't that the incident gave him PTSD, but that it aggravated the symptoms of an existing condition.