The Wards of Tokyo and Fucked Gaijins

[wangta]

I live in one of Tokyo's iraira wards at the moment - it's affordable - and I was having a chat with a student about what wards in Tokyo are suitable for us. He gave me some blether about how a gaijin living in Meguro gets respect cause Meguro is what I would call affluent - my student's English doesn't have that vocab.

I replied to him that not so long ago one of the nicest addresses in Meguro - Himonya - had a sick incident where an old woman was attacked by a sicko in her 3rd floor apato, the sicko climbed in thru her balcony door but as usual all the other Jp people around seem to have been sticking their heads in whatever sand they have on their floors in their own apatos and nobody supposedly saw or heard this. How it ended up was that the woman's dismembered body was found in the lake of Himonya Park.

Give me where I live anyday. Non prestigious as it is. But I want to ask the question - how do Tokyo Japanese classify the 'special wards' of Tokyo and where do they fit us fucked gaijin in? I've heard that anywhere rich Frog Gaijins live is prestigious, including Hiroo, tho I think Hiroo looks like one of the most boring fucking places I've ever seen.

I'm pretty sure that Adachi Ku where I'm living now has no status but low status - another of my students advised me not to say I live there. Anybody want to relate any info about the wards of Tokyo and how the Jp classify them?

[wangta]

Sorry - mean to write the wards OF Tokyo.

[wuchan]

Japanese definition of "special" means they think they want to live there but couldn't find a place. The only place I would call "special" in the 23 wards is that small man made island in next to a bunch of warehouses where EVERYONE has a Lamborghini. Other than that spot, the higher the floor the higher the rent.

[wagyl]

Does the question "what wards are suitable for a foreign person to live" mean the same as "where do we want to site the ghetto?"

Are you suggesting that prestige addresses differ for different nationalities?

Are you also suggesting that one unfortunate incident means that a place is off the list? How long is the hive memory meant to last for that? How for does that influence flow .. to the ward/municipality? To the prefecture -- is all of Tokyo tainted by this? To the nation? To the continent? To the Pacific Rim?

In answer to your question: how do the Japanese decide which address in Tokyo is prestigious? Same as anyone anywhere else -- historical cachet, proximity to noxious industry, how many empty sake one-cup glasses roll from side to side in the evening trains. Is it leafy, or grey? Are people with money already there, and does it cost a lot of money to move in?

[legion]

It doesn't really matter where you live in Tokyo, it's more or less the same, too much concrete, not enough space.

Within two miles or so from Yedo, and yet well away from the toil and
din of the great city, stands the village of Meguro. Once past the
outskirts of the town, the road leading thither is bounded on either
side by woodlands rich in an endless variety of foliage, broken at
intervals by the long, low line of villages and hamlets. As we draw
near to Meguro, the scenery, becoming more and more rustic, increases
in beauty. Deep shady lanes, bordered by hedgerows as luxurious as any
in England, lead down to a valley of rice fields bright with the
emerald green of the young crops. To the right and to the left rise
knolls of fantastic shape, crowned with a profusion of Cryptomerias,
Scotch firs and other cone-bearing trees, and fringed with thickets of
feathery bamboos, bending their stems gracefully to the light summer
breeze. Wherever there is a spot shadier and pleasanter to look upon
than the rest, there may be seen the red portal of a shrine which the
simple piety of the country folk has raised to Inari Sama, the patron
god of farming, or to some other tutelary deity of the place. At the
eastern outlet of the valley a strip of blue sea bounds the horizon;
westward are the distant mountains. In the foreground, in front of a
farmhouse, snug-looking, with its roof of velvety-brown thatch, a
troop of sturdy urchins, suntanned and stark naked, are frisking in
the wildest gambols, all heedless of the scolding voice of the
withered old grandam who sits spinning and minding the house, while
her son and his wife are away toiling at some outdoor labour. Close at
our feet runs a stream of pure water, in which a group of countrymen
are washing the vegetables which they will presently shoulder and
carry off to sell by auction in the suburbs of Yedo. Not the least
beauty of the scene consists in the wondrous clearness of an
atmosphere so transparent that the most distant outlines are scarcely
dimmed, while the details of the nearer ground stand out in sharp,
bold relief, now lit by the rays of a vertical sun, now darkened under
the flying shadows thrown by the fleecy clouds which sail across the
sky. Under such a heaven, what painter could limn the lights and
shades which flit over the woods, the pride of Japan, whether in late
autumn, when the russets and yellows of our own trees are mixed with
the deep crimson glow of the maples, or in spring-time, when plum and
cherry trees and wild camellias--giants, fifty feet high--are in full
blossom?

http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/13015/pg13015.txt

roll on population decline and a return to a realistic number of people on these islands

[Takechanpoo]

recently overcrowding in tokyo is getting worse and worse than ever before because the suburbanization, which had started since late 70s, ended and re-urbanization(tokyonization) has started. the population of my tama area, which is located in west suburb of tokyo, is decreasing because of death of jiji and baba and youngsters exodus to central of tokyo. im happy with it personally though.

[wuchan]

recently overcrowding in tokyo is getting worse and worse than ever before because the suburbanization, which had started since late 70s, ended and re-urbanization(tokyonization) has started. the population of my tama area, which is located in west suburb of tokyo, is decreasing because of death of jiji and baba and youngsters exodus to central of tokyo. im happy with it personally though.

Your dumb is showing.


Large companies in Japan own most of the land in Tokyo and have succeeded in pushing the myth that working in Tokyo equals money. They are only trying to get back to the days where company tokens were worth more than real money but using real money. If they own the land, shops, apartments and require employees to live within an area..... it's the same as the days of company towns. ALL the big J-companmies offer discounts or "zero" interest loans to buy disposable "mansions" from "group companies" in order to keep the money within the "group". But they don't tell you that "XX CO" is part of the group.

I have had job offers retracted when they learned that I own land in Japan. Maybe it's because I'm not a disposable gaijin, maybe it's because I can get loans to fight back or maybe it's because a land owner and member of several associations can't be exploited easily.

[Takechanpoo]

when they learned that I own land in Japan

cats forehead plot of land, right?

[Yokohammer]

when they learned that I own land in Japan

cats forehead plot of land, right?

That's funny ... but 猫の額 doesn't translate in the context that you're using it.

The closest is "not enough room to swing a cat."

Anyway, Wuchan owns land, I own land, and I can think of at least four other FG members who own land here. It's not as unusual as you might think. You just need to get out of Tokyo.

[wagyl]

While I do not dispute that Wuchan owns land, I do call bullshit on that being a reason for job offers being withdrawn, unless it is agricultural land requiring seasonal absences from work. Or maybe the land is accessed by the bullshit bridge between Honshu and Hokkaido which has the police lined up in late September.

[Coligny]

Meeee tooooooo naaao...

Need moar for new underground bunker like the one Colin Powel showed when he explained whar Osama Benlabomb was was using as seeekret alkaelda evil lair with submarine base, dunjeon , seks slave penthouze and moar...

[Yokohammer]

Well there goes the neighbourhood ... Coligny has joined the club.

Wagyl: I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss Wuchan's "Maybe it's because" theory. I think it would depend on the potential employer. Gaijin land ownership says a lot about that gaijin that employers with exploitative intent might not want to hear. Established, connected, financially stable to some degree, legal, and basically not fuckable with. Of course that also says something about the kind of potential employers Wuchan deals with, but I wouldn't call BS.

[Coligny]

Signed and paid last week... Just need Pocahontas to drop by and check if it 's a proper cursed indian sacred land
If not I will never be able to ressucitate the dead Korean hookers that I ordered from SJ...

[wagyl]

and basically not fuckable with. Of course that also says something about the kind of potential employers Wuchan deals with, but I wouldn't call BS.

Now that you put it that way, I can see there being a "we won't be able to screw this guy over, so maybe we should look for someone else to employ" thing going on, but as you say, those jobs aren't worth the hassle. Or any amount of money. Some near misses there, Wuchan?

[wuchan]

The times it happened I wasn't upset. Only one with a big company kinda pissed me off. They wanted me to live in the company dorm for my first year or so but It was only a 30 minute train ride away from home and I was willing to put in OT. Found out later that the people living in the dorm had to pay rent to the company. I really wanted the job too, it was a welding shop manager position and I like welding.

[wagyl]

I doubt that that position was targetting foreign employees: management, even workshop management, is hardly 3K. I think that situation would have been the same no matter what your nationality.

I had about three years in a company dormitory. Where I was, they didn't let you in unless your commute would otherwise be more than 2 hours each way. It would have been frustrating to be there if you already had your own place not that far away. Yes, we had to pay rent but it was most definitely not commercial rates but instead heavily discounted*, and the company was not particularly upset that about half of the single occupancy rooms were empty. The family occupancy rooms were full.

* rent for a one room mansion with its own unit bath and kitchenette and secure, under cover parking for one car was in total less than what I had to pay for just a dirt car parking space under a cherry tree dropping resin on the paintwork, only suitable for a short car, once I moved out.

[Russell]

I own more than twice as much land than Takechan will ever have. There are too many freaking dogs in the neighborhood, though.

This week my wife was just about to leave our driveway to drive me to the station, and up comes this woman with her dog. That's fine in itself, but I was already late, and that dog then started to rotate in that typical you-know-doggy way, and produce a giant turd in front of our car.

And then that woman insisted on cleaning it up before letting us pass.

Obviously, I was quite upset, because of my train, so I couldn't help but reaching over to the claxon, much to wifey's annoyance. You have to keep good relations in the neighborhood, you know...

[Grumpy Gramps]

Bad dogmanship. Reminds me of my own beginnings, when doggie decided to take a dump in the middle of a large street crossing, just when we were getting red and all traffic had to wait for him to finish.

The lady will learn it over time,,, unless it's a small dog - small dog ladies all have learning disorder

[wangta]

Does the question "what wards are suitable for a foreign person to live" mean the same as "where do we want to site the ghetto?"

Are you suggesting that prestige addresses differ for different nationalities?

Are you also suggesting that one unfortunate incident means that a place is off the list? How long is the hive memory meant to last for that? How for does that influence flow .. to the ward/municipality? To the prefecture -- is all of Tokyo tainted by this? To the nation? To the continent? To the Pacific Rim?

In answer to your question: how do the Japanese decide which address in Tokyo is prestigious? Same as anyone anywhere else -- historical cachet, proximity to noxious industry, how many empty sake one-cup glasses roll from side to side in the evening trains. Is it leafy, or grey? Are people with money already there, and does it cost a lot of money to move in?

I know that Hiroo, Koenji and Meguro have the rep of having more Frogs in residence, French to Coligny. Okubo of course has Korea town and Chinese people seem to like Ikebukuro. But your points are reasonable. I like taking the driverless train from Adachi Ku to my work elsewhere - really convenient to Nippori on the Yamanote line and elsewhere. I like the blue collar feel of Adachi Ku and my neighbours are nice people, and I like living in what's a fairly big apato compared to somebody paying more in areas that have status.

[wangta]

recently overcrowding in tokyo is getting worse and worse than ever before because the suburbanization, which had started since late 70s, ended and re-urbanization(tokyonization) has started. the population of my tama area, which is located in west suburb of tokyo, is decreasing because of death of jiji and baba and youngsters exodus to central of tokyo. im happy with it personally though.

The Tama region is nice, and in some places really cool. It aint a madhouse like Tokyo.

[wagyl]

Koenji is not prestigious. Trendy and funky maybe, but not prestigious.

You seem to have a thing about French only living in prestigious places. Which is curious, because there is a lot of Paris which is definitely not prestigious. What you are thinking about, with Hiroo, is people on expatriate packages, who have been sent to Tokyo by their foreign employers, and whose accommodation is paid for as part of their salary package. In that case, it was a history of having the palaces of minor branches of the Imperial family, proximity to international and other well-regarded schools, proximity to a noted import product supermarket so that the bored foreign housewives who are prevented from employment don't freak out and they can get their Corn Flakes and Oreos, which 25 years ago were a lot less widespread, lots of foreign embassies, and a cluster of condominiums which charge five times your salary for rent of an apartment of sufficient size and style that they meet the standards of international expectations (which means an oven in the kitchen and no step-up at the entranceway). The foreign people often do not actually choose there, although it is often convenient to their Minato-ku jobs: more often those are the only places which their employer offers to them to stay. I don't think you will find many people who pay for their Hiroo accommodation with their own money, nor many people who would regard it as value for the money that is being paid for those places.

The only relevant criteria for choosing a place to live, is whether it meets your own personal wishes. Part of being an fully grown-up adult is not having to copy, in an angst-ridden way, what the cool kids do.

[Takechanpoo]

Signed and paid last week... Just need Pocahontas to drop by and check if it 's a proper cursed indian sacred land
If not I will never be able to ressucitate the dead Korean hookers that I ordered from SJ...

this la la retard is talking as if signed and bought by himself in spite of the fact that just followed close behind his wifes shopping.
way too fucking funny

[Russell]

Signed and paid last week... Just need Pocahontas to drop by and check if it 's a proper cursed indian sacred land
If not I will never be able to ressucitate the dead Korean hookers that I ordered from SJ...

this la la retard is talking as if signed and bought by himself in spite of the fact that just followed close behind his wifes shopping.
way too fucking funny

Well, at least he has a wife...

[Wage Slave]

Signed and paid last week... Just need Pocahontas to drop by and check if it 's a proper cursed indian sacred land
If not I will never be able to ressucitate the dead Korean hookers that I ordered from SJ...

this la la retard is talking as if signed and bought by himself in spite of the fact that just followed close behind his wifes shopping.
way too fucking funny

Well, at least he has a wife...

Top drawer.

[yanpa]

Signed and paid last week... Just need Pocahontas to drop by and check if it 's a proper cursed indian sacred land
If not I will never be able to ressucitate the dead Korean hookers that I ordered from SJ...

this la la retard is talking as if signed and bought by himself in spite of the fact that just followed close behind his wifes shopping.
way too fucking funny

Well, at least he has a wife...

Top drawer.

One place to keep your Dutch wife I s'pose.

[yanpa]

I don't think you will find many people who pay for their Hiroo accommodation with their own money, nor many people who would regard it as value for the money that is being paid for those places.

My wife's aunt and her husband live in Hiroo. I their place is paid for not with their own money.

It's an apaato in a danchi if you must know.

[Coligny]

Signed and paid last week... Just need Pocahontas to drop by and check if it 's a proper cursed indian sacred land
If not I will never be able to ressucitate the dead Korean hookers that I ordered from SJ...

this la la retard is talking as if signed and bought by himself in spite of the fact that just followed close behind his wifes shopping.
way too fucking funny

Well, at least he has a wife...

Top drawer.

geeez... I have to hide my stuff better before your next visit...

[TennoChinko]

..Anybody want to relate any info about the wards of Tokyo and how the Jp classify them?

A Tokyo ward or city is probably too broad a definition or classification to be useful; especially if you consider the "zoning diversity" or general lack thereof.

Certain neighborhoods provide better cues ... but still, you could live in Den En Chofu, SeijoGakuenMae, Azabu, Meijiro, Omotesando etc... but in a 1979 1DK public housing project similar to what yanpa indicated about his in-law's in Hiroo.

Some descriptions are very specific ... for example, "Roppongi Hills" generally it taken to mean it's one of the residential towers bearing that name...

Although most people will indicate the Western-style tree-lined residential boulevards of neighborhoods like Den En Chofu & Seijigakuenmae etc., I was surprised a few years ago when I visited a house in Edogawa Ward along the Arakawa river...

[Takechanpoo]

My wife's aunt and her husband live in Hiroo. I their place is paid for not with their own money.

It's an apaato in a danchi if you must know.

this comment cannot help but makes me guess your wife is a descendant of z-people as in case of kurogane.
its super hyper ultra crazy hard to win the lotteries to move into danchis(公団住宅) of the central area of tokyo, yokohama, osaka and other big j-cities if you are regular japanese. but if you are a descendant of z-people, its not so hard as regular japanese to win it. z-people can preferentially move into danchis.
there seems to be a high affinity between z-people and gaijins, indeed. yea.

[wangta]

..Anybody want to relate any info about the wards of Tokyo and how the Jp classify them?

A Tokyo ward or city is probably too broad a definition or classification to be useful; especially if you consider the "zoning diversity" or general lack thereof.

Certain neighborhoods provide better cues ... but still, you could live in Den En Chofu, SeijoGakuenMae, Azabu, Meijiro, Omotesando etc... but in a 1979 1DK public housing project similar to what yanpa indicated about his in-law's in Hiroo.

Some descriptions are very specific ... for example, "Roppongi Hills" generally it taken to mean it's one of the residential towers bearing that name...

Although most people will indicate the Western-style tree-lined residential boulevards of neighborhoods like Den En Chofu & Seijigakuenmae etc., I was surprised a few years ago when I visited a house in Edogawa Ward along the Arakawa river...

Interesting response. Yep, on reflection and further info, from you and other posters, Tokyo's more of a mixed bag than I thought. A gaijin mate's co-worker moved into Meguro early last year but as he said, for a ward with a rep for being affluent, he's noted a continuous procession of shabby older men hanging around riding around on bicycles and chucking rubbish and beer cans in the local parks.

It seems that Meguro's got some very ordinary areas with poorer older people but the name's enough for people moving in esp gaijin to be charged more for rent.

He also reckoned that it's a fairly unfriendly place throughout - he said the genuinely affluent areas have notably snobbish attitudes from a fair few of the residents and the more ordinary and lower class areas have more than their fair share of unfriendly, surly residents.

He was in Kamata (Ota Ward) before and he said the people are much better - acknowledged his greetings in the neighbourhood and liked it when he admired their dogs when they were out walking their pets.

He also said the ward office treated him like a human being from the first day he walked in. He said Ota Ward office is friendly and the staff acknowledged him straight away when he went in to do any business.

By contrast supposedly more 'sophsiticated' Meguro has some doozies in the ward office who made sure they avoided coming to the counter when he first went there until he asked in Jp if anybody was going to talk to him. He said they still do the staring at the keyboard act instead of asking how can they help, and not only to his gaijin face.