How Are You Guys Holding Up?

[dimwit]

The endgame will be that the governments will force all of us to get vaccinated and whatever the hell they will inject into us, only the devil knows...

But then, this coming winter I very likely won't forget to get my flu shot again

Ah vaccines, the panacea for a pandemic. Except a couple of small problems -and I am not talking about super model parents complaining about how their kids are retarded as they are, I am talking about the fact that vaccines are a prevention not a cure. So in the time it will take to develop a vaccine, the most pessimistic forecasters have estimated that up to 70% of us will have already been exposed to it and will therefore have the antibodies or will be dead. The second teensy issue is these viruses are clever little chaps who have a habit of mutating all the time.

[Russell]

The endgame will be that the governments will force all of us to get vaccinated and whatever the hell they will inject into us, only the devil knows...

But then, this coming winter I very likely won't forget to get my flu shot again

Ah vaccines, the panacea for a pandemic. Except a couple of small problems -and I am not talking about super model parents complaining about how their kids are retarded as they are, I am talking about the fact that vaccines are a prevention not a cure. So in the time it will take to develop a vaccine, the most pessimistic forecasters have estimated that up to 70% of us will have already been exposed to it and will therefore have the antibodies or will be dead. The second teensy issue is these viruses are clever little chaps who have a habit of mutating all the time.

I think Grumpy's point is that he wants to minimize the risk of having to be hospitalized for the flu, because that would put him at additional risk to the Corona virus, and it would put additional stress on the health care system.

[matsuki]

I think Grumpy's point is that he wants to minimize the risk of having to be hospitalized for the flu, because that would put him at additional risk to the Corona virus, and it would put additional stress on the health care system.

Which is reasonable considering how many of these rona explosions are in healthcare settings....

[Grumpy Gramps]

I think Grumpy's point is...

Nope, just shitposting, except yes, I surely won't forget my flu jab this year.

I do hope, though that research gets enough funding from somewhere™ to discover at least a generic vaccine for corona, which will hopefully work on a majority of these types of viruses, or else there won't be a carnival in Rio next year.

[Russell]

[Wage Slave]

In my prefecture of 6 million people there are now 45 cases! All have recovered so far but it is only a matter of time .... Meanwhile the shops are calm and there is plenty of everything except alcohol wipes/sanitiser and masks. You can get masks, if you wait at the door at opening time. I see that the president himself tweeted "LIBERATE MICHIGAN".

"On Friday morning Donald Trump fired off a series of tweets calling for the "liberation" of three states with Democratic governors, as though they were enemy-controlled territory.

The message seems apparent.

The governor of one, Michigan's Gretchen Whitmer, recently was the target of a mass protest at the state capital against her sweeping lockdown orders. A mixed crowd of conservatives, white nationalists and anti-government militias waved Confederate and pro-Trump flags, and signs accusing Whitmer of dictatorial overreach.

Another of the states, Virginia, had its own capital protests earlier in the year from gun-rights activists.

The president's social media fusillade suggests his goal is to reward - or encourage - such shows of force from his political base, as opinion polls indicate Trump's approval rating is sagging after a boost during the early weeks of the outbreak.

Trump followed those incendiary tweets by criticising New York's Andrew Cuomo, another Democrat, for mishandling the pandemic and spending too much time "complaining".

Just a day after Trump reportedly told governors in a conference call they would "call the shots" on when to begin easing restrictions, it appears the president wants to up the pressure - and the political risk - for Democrats by other means at his disposal.
Trump has benefitted in the past from a finely tuned sense of the sentiments - and resentments - of his supporters. Friday morning could be an indication that he's positioning himself to again stand in their midst."

Michigan has 10 million people near enough and has 43,207 cases with 4,020 fatalities. On top of that, I believe they only count deaths in hospital which always raises questions. And especially in a country where a lot of people do not have access to health insurance.

People can criticise Japan all they like but in comparison I would say we are doing far better here thank you very much.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52330531

[Russell]

Recently they tested people in Shinjuku for antibodies to Covid-19, and 6% tested positive.

Kind of blows my mind. Are there many casualties in Shinjuku?

[Scipio]

'People can criticise Japan all they like but in comparison I would say we are doing far better here thank you very much.'

Speak for yourself. Here in Tokyo, which is also part of Japan, I think that it's madness. The supermarkets are choc a bloc with people, with the oba and ojisans picking up every package of meat for inspection. The parks are full of kids playing and social distancing is a total joke. There will be a price to pay for this madness, unless you think that the Japanese have some unique genetic make-up, which immunizes them against Covid 19. I've been reading that the first wave of Covid 19 in Japan, in February, was similar to the original Wuhan strain, which was less virulent in its contagion rate and less dangerous to mortality. This recent strain of COVID 19 in Japan, since early March, is more like the strain being found in Europe, brought back to Japan by Japanese tourists who visited Europe. The USA strain of Covid 19, apart from California, is a pure European strain and the consequences are there to see.

I think that, in 4 weeks, we will see the consequences of this 'Mockdown'. You can say, on June 4th, 'I told you so', if I am wrong. I will not, out of respect to the large number of deaths that I think will inevitably come from this 'head in the sand' approach of Japanese society, do likewise, if I am right.

So I'll say it now, 'I told you so' , and hope that I will be proven wrong.

[Grumpy Gramps]

I for myself, will just follow the recommendations of the WHO (mutatis mutandis for my circumstance). It is likely the least messed up version of the facts, which I have access to.

[Wage Slave]

'People can criticise Japan all they like but in comparison I would say we are doing far better here thank you very much.'

Speak for yourself. Here in Tokyo, which is also part of Japan, I think that it's madness. The supermarkets are choc a bloc with people, with the oba and ojisans picking up every package of meat for inspection. The parks are full of kids playing and social distancing is a total joke. There will be a price to pay for this madness, unless you think that the Japanese have some unique genetic make-up, which immunizes them against Covid 19. I've been reading that the first wave of Covid 19 in Japan, in February, was similar to the original Wuhan strain, which was less virulent in its contagion rate and less dangerous to mortality. This recent strain of COVID 19 in Japan, since early March, is more like the strain being found in Europe, brought back to Japan by Japanese tourists who visited Europe. The USA strain of Covid 19, apart from California, is a pure European strain and the consequences are there to see.

I think that, in 4 weeks, we will see the consequences of this 'Mockdown'. You can say, on June 4th, 'I told you so', if I am wrong. I will not, out of respect to the large number of deaths that I think will inevitably come from this 'head in the sand' approach of Japanese society, do likewise, if I am right.

So I'll say it now, 'I told you so' , and hope that I will be proven wrong.

We will see but we are quite a long way down the road of this wave. And Tokyo is Tokyo. It should be compared with what happened in NYC or London - as ugly as that is. Of course it is nothing to do with genetics and everything to do with behaviour. Or maybe vaccines. Or a combination of things. In any case, as imperfect as it is, I know where I would rather be at the moment.

[matsuki]

Japan definitely doesn't have the deaths of Europe or New York but I think it's still too early to know why. It sure as hell isn't a result of the actions the locals are (not) taking. Different strain is plausible. So are childhood vaccinations....but whatever the reason, until we know what it is, error on the side of caution would seem like a good idea.

[Mike Oxlong]

Japan definitely doesn't have the deaths of Europe or New York but I think it's still too early to know why. It sure as hell isn't a result of the actions the locals are (not) taking. Different strain is plausible. So are childhood vaccinations....but whatever the reason, until we know what it is, error on the side of caution would seem like a good idea.

There are a lot of theories out and about regarding that...
http://www.japansubculture.com/the-myst ... or-does-it

[Russell]

Japan definitely doesn't have the deaths of Europe or New York but I think it's still too early to know why. It sure as hell isn't a result of the actions the locals are (not) taking. Different strain is plausible. So are childhood vaccinations....but whatever the reason, until we know what it is, error on the side of caution would seem like a good idea.

There are a lot of theories out and about regarding that...
http://www.japansubculture.com/the-myst ... or-does-it

That is a very interesting link, Mike!

[matsuki]

Japan definitely doesn't have the deaths of Europe or New York but I think it's still too early to know why. It sure as hell isn't a result of the actions the locals are (not) taking. Different strain is plausible. So are childhood vaccinations....but whatever the reason, until we know what it is, error on the side of caution would seem like a good idea.

There are a lot of theories out and about regarding that...
http://www.japansubculture.com/the-myst ... or-does-it

That is a very interesting link, Mike!

So...Avigan to save the J-economy?

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Japan definitely doesn't have the deaths of Europe or New York but I think it's still too early to know why. It sure as hell isn't a result of the actions the locals are (not) taking. Different strain is plausible. So are childhood vaccinations....but whatever the reason, until we know what it is, error on the side of caution would seem like a good idea.

Longer intestines and different Japanese snow

[matsuki]

Japan definitely doesn't have the deaths of Europe or New York but I think it's still too early to know why. It sure as hell isn't a result of the actions the locals are (not) taking. Different strain is plausible. So are childhood vaccinations....but whatever the reason, until we know what it is, error on the side of caution would seem like a good idea.

Longer intestines and different Japanese snow

It's funny how those have aged...the young locals don't seem to be aware of how unique they are that's probably a good indication.

[yanpa]

Japan definitely doesn't have the deaths of Europe or New York but I think it's still too early to know why. It sure as hell isn't a result of the actions the locals are (not) taking. Different strain is plausible. So are childhood vaccinations....but whatever the reason, until we know what it is, error on the side of caution would seem like a good idea.

Longer intestines and different Japanese snow

It's funny how those have aged...the young locals don't seem to be aware of how unique they are that's probably a good indication.

"Does your country have four seasons?"

[matsuki]

Well, at least they still think 7-11, Denny's, etc. originated in Japan...and that Mister Donut is America Donut Numbaaa wan!!

[wangta]

For fuck's sake, there's no mysterious Japanese immunity, superior sanitation reason only etc etc.

Listen up cheerleaders, it's called No mass movement between different countries continuously on multi passports in multi-cultural societies. Got it? Japan's like Korea - the biggest self-congratulator along with the biggest restrictions on foreigners living here. Yep, we're foreigners living and working here. But we are here cause we paying a shedload of taxes and working.

Japanese do not jump around from country to country on two or more passports. The ones who live in our countries hid their foreign passports from the J gov and keep their J nationality. In multi-cultural countries - ie European ones, the Uk, Canada, USA, Australia, NZ - there are people from all the countries in the world continuously going back home to live there some part of the year and returning. Multi-citizenships. There are massive numbers of immigrants - legal and in Europe's and the USA's case significant illegal ones. Europe has allowed free movement for a long time.

Now the racist little Ks are proclaiming they are an example to the world - no the fuck you aint just like Japan aint. Your redneck rejection of anything non Korean and your xenophobic witchhunts at the moment against foreigners keeps them damn well very low in number. Just like Tokyo, Tokyo aint internationalized in any real way, the sheer mobility going on in the multi-cultural countries has as much to do with Japan and Korea as a cherry blossom tree has to do with driving a race car.

There's no fucking comparison, why it seems a 'mystery' is more an indication of brains being rotted by dwelling too long in East Asia with all their bullshit. Just like the toothy Kiwi Slapper J Ardern, leader of NZ, thinks she's the biz for having few cases in a small country with around a million people and isolated geographically from the world.

There is also the matter of fatties and people with pre-existing conditions. There the Japanese and Koreans deserve some credit. They keep their slimness by not normalizing drinking giant sodas every day, giant junk food everyday, canned food full of corn syrup - highly manufactured garbage designed to get you sweet taste hooked even when eating food that traditionally shouldn't be, etc etc. There are some fat kids in Japan now and when old people don't like sickly thin they can look lumpy but there is no comparison to the obesity in the USA and some other western countries.

Note the recent 'victim killed' - stupid terminology - by COVID-19 was a 28 year old sumo wrestler. Why on earth is anybody remotely surprised? Fatally obese, sleeping in one tatami room close to some others, a body that is unnatural in any culture, but, but he is a sumo wrestler! Yep, and it killed him.

[Russell]

For fuck's sake, there's no mysterious Japanese immunity, superior sanitation reason only etc etc.

Listen up cheerleaders, it's called No mass movement between different countries continuously on multi passports in multi-cultural societies. Got it? Japan's like Korea - the biggest self-congratulator along with the biggest restrictions on foreigners living here. Yep, we're foreigners living and working here. But we are here cause we paying a shedload of taxes and working.

Japanese do not jump around from country to country on two or more passports. The ones who live in our countries hid their foreign passports from the J gov and keep their J nationality. In multi-cultural countries - ie European ones, the Uk, Canada, USA, Australia, NZ - there are people from all the countries in the world continuously going back home to live there some part of the year and returning. Multi-citizenships. There are massive numbers of immigrants - legal and in Europe's and the USA's case significant illegal ones. Europe has allowed free movement for a long time.

Now the racist little Ks are proclaiming they are an example to the world - no the fuck you aint just like Japan aint. Your redneck rejection of anything non Korean and your xenophobic witchhunts at the moment against foreigners keeps them damn well very low in number. Just like Tokyo, Tokyo aint internationalized in any real way, the sheer mobility going on in the multi-cultural countries has as much to do with Japan and Korea as a cherry blossom tree has to do with driving a race car.

There's no fucking comparison, why it seems a 'mystery' is more an indication of brains being rotted by dwelling too long in East Asia with all their bullshit. Just like the toothy Kiwi Slapper J Ardern, leader of NZ, thinks she's the biz for having few cases in a small country with around a million people and isolated geographically from the world.

There is also the matter of fatties and people with pre-existing conditions. There the Japanese and Koreans deserve some credit. They keep their slimness by not normalizing drinking giant sodas every day, giant junk food everyday, canned food full of corn syrup - highly manufactured garbage designed to get you sweet taste hooked even when eating food that traditionally shouldn't be, etc etc. There are some fat kids in Japan now and when old people don't like sickly thin they can look lumpy but there is no comparison to the obesity in the USA and some other western countries.

Note the recent 'victim killed' - stupid terminology - by COVID-19 was a 28 year old sumo wrestler. Why on earth is anybody remotely surprised? Fatally obese, sleeping in one tatami room close to some others, a body that is unnatural in any culture, but, but he is a sumo wrestler! Yep, and it killed him.

So, you have become a cheer leader for Japanese food?

[wangta]

I've always liked and even loved good Japanese food - ie the type that's not filled with additives and colouring. That's why I hate Japanese sweets - they're are just as evil as any heavily manufactured western snack food, so fucking artificial.

A lot of sushi sucks badly cause it's made of cheap, nasty fishies pulled out of waters saturated with heavy metals and dioxins. Some Japanese seafood sucks cause the water it comes from is dirty. Some seafood tastes good, even great in places with more nature and cleaner water. Teppanyaki is good, some izakaya food is surprisingly good, some restaurants priced a bit higher than the norm have good to great washoku.

A lot of faster types of J food like katsu don and hamburger 'steak' are good, relatively cheap meals depending on where you eat them. Convenience store meals in Japan rock sometimes - the pasta is good, doria's great, they often taste better from the conbini than some of the cheaper pasta restaurants where they taste anaemic and just like they were taken outta the can, thrown in boiling water and covered with cheapie sauce.

And yeah, let's face it, bicycle riding, often walking, smaller portion eating. green and oolong tea drinking older Japanese people look much better as potential survivors of nasty new viruses than obese older Americans living on a diet of 'normal' American food, guzzling coke, pepsi, dr pepper, mountain dew etc like it's some fountain of life. And driving just about everywhere tho it's not their fault in cases where stores are too fucking far and there's no or no reliable public transportation.

[matsuki]

I'd argue that gram for gram, the Japanese take on anything with butter, they're using margarine in, and it's much worse for you than most variations you'd find in the west. The portion size on the other hand.....<sucks teeth>

[Russell]

Grocery Store Exec Roasts Man Who Tried to Return Bulk Toilet Paper

LOL, the guy is now the proud owner of 4800 rolls of toilet paper and 150 liter of hand sanitizer.
At two rolls a week, it'll take him more than 46 years to use it up. Not to speak of the hand sanitizer.

[Russell]

From near disaster to success story: how Japan has tackled coronavirus

Criticism of government reaction has given way to plaudits for public’s virus-challenging habits

A little over a month ago, health experts were saying Japan risked becoming one of the world’s coronavirus “disaster zones”.

Its government was already facing criticism over its decision to quarantine passengers and crew aboard the Diamond Princess cruise liner, and had been accused of underplaying the Covid-19 threat while it clung to the increasingly faint hope of hosting the Olympics this summer.

Japan was testing too few people, critics said, opting instead to focus on clusters of cases rather than overburden its healthcare system with patients displaying no or only mild symptoms who, by law, had to be admitted to hospital. One of the world’s richest countries, they said, was bungling its response.

But today, Japan can make a strong case for being another coronavirus success story, albeit one that has failed to resonate globally in the same way as those in South Korea, Hong Kong and Taiwan.

So far, Japan – a country of 126 million people with one of the biggest elderly populations in the world – has confirmed 16,433 infections and 784 deaths, out of a global death toll of more than 300,000 people.

In Tokyo, where almost 14 million people live, new cases have remained below 40 for more than a fortnight, with just five cases reported on two consecutive days this week. That compares with a peak of 206 new cases reported on 17 April. On Friday, the public broadcaster NHK reported just three new cases in the capital in the previous 24 hours.

Achieving such low figures barely seemed possible in early April when, just as the number of cases began to rise sharply in Tokyo and other major cities, neighbouring South Korea – with its widely praised regime of testing, tracing and treating – was flattening the curve.

On 7 April, the prime minister, Shinzo Abe, belatedly declared a state of emergency in the capital and other affected areas that was later expanded to include all 47 of the country’s prefectures.

But Japan’s version of “lockdown” – requests to avoid unnecessary outings, work from home and observe social distancing – came across as a timid response to a situation that risked spiraling out of control. The dispatch of two reusable masks to every household was met with derision, as people posted photographs on social media of the small, and in some cases dirty, “Abenomasks” – a play on the leader’s economic policy dubbed “Abenomics”.

Abe’s performance throughout the crisis has been uneven, according to Tobias Harris, an expert on Japanese politics at Teneo consultancy. “I think he has struggled to stay ahead of events since the beginning, has not communicated effectively, and has been poorly served by his lieutenants.”

Japan has skirted a coronavirus surge with room to spare, after new cases slowed markedly when Abe, who does not have the legal powers to declare a European-style lockdown, called on people to beat the virus by avoiding the “three Cs”: confined and crowded spaces, and close human contact.

The Abe administration has gained few political dividends for its response; instead, most plaudits have gone to the quiet determination shown by the public, armed with virus-challenging habits formed long before the pandemic.

Masks are a common sight during the winter flu season, and in spring among people with hay fever. The custom of bowing rather than shaking hands or hugging, generally high standards of personal hygiene, and the removal of shoes when entering homes have all been held up as possible explanations for Japan’s low infection rate.

Experts have pointed to universal healthcare, low obesity rates and expertise in treating pneumonia. More fanciful theories have gained traction – the consumption of foods, such as natto, that boost the immune system and, according to an unscientific experiment conducted by a TV network, the relatively low number of airborne droplets generated by spoken Japanese.

“I don’t think the falling number of infections is due to government policies,” said Ryuji Koike, the assistant director of Tokyo Medical and Dental university hospital. “I think it looks like Japan is doing well thanks to things that can’t be measured, like daily habits and ‘Japanese behaviour’.”

Personal habits and cultural traits, however, tell only part of the story. While Japan hesitated before imposing restrictions on overseas visitors, it was quick to recognise the dangers of mass gatherings.

Museums, theatres, theme parks and other attractions have been closed for months. Japan’s professional football league suspended matches three weeks before 150,000 people attended the four-day Cheltenham horse racing festival in Britain.

Rugby and baseball leagues followed suit, delaying the start of their seasons, while sumo authorities decided to hold the recent spring tournament without spectators for the first time in the sport’s history. Abe was criticised for calling for “unnecessary” school closures in early March, yet many other countries then did the same.

Rob Fahey, a research associate at the Waseda Institute of Political Economy in Tokyo, believes declaring Japan’s ability to contain the outbreak a “mystery” ignores the role of individual and collective action.

“Acknowledging this, however, requires looking beyond the usual set of policy actors and recognising that Japan’s response overall can still have been exemplary even if the performance of its central government left much to be desired,” Fahey wrote in the Tokyo Review this week.

Japan’s incremental exit from the state of emergency continues. Last week, Abe ended the measure in 39 prefectures, adding another three this week. Tokyo and four other prefectures could join them as early as Monday, according to media reports.

But experts are warning against complacency given that the low rates of testing may be distorting the extent of infections – a hazard recognised by the government’s own expert, Shigeru Omi, who admitted that nobody knows whether the true number of coronavirus cases “could be 10 times, 12 times or 20 times more than reported”.

As Tokyo’s backstreet bars and restaurants started filling up again this week – with some staying open beyond the 8pm closing time requested by the city’s governor – Abe sought to balance cautious optimism with a dose of post-pandemic reality.

The weeks ahead would not mark a return to the days before the outbreak, he said, but the “beginning of a challenge to create a ‘new normal’”.

More

That link that I copied from the Guardian, asserting that "spoken Japanese generates a relatively low number of airborne droplets" leads to a tweet, but I am looking for the corresponding video from TBS. Anyone knows where I can find it?

[Mike Oxlong]

That link that I copied from the Guardian, asserting that "spoken Japanese generates a relatively low number of airborne droplets" leads to a tweet, but I am looking for the corresponding video from TBS. Anyone knows where I can find it?

What a turd that tweet is. I highly doubt all but the most febrile anti-foreign Japanese believe that's anything more than a comedy sketch. Leave it to the Grauniad to give it international legs.

A very good response: https://mobile.twitter.com/_shiopan/sta ... 4961888256

[Wage Slave]

Leave it to the Grauniad to give it international legs.

"fanciful theories"
"according to an unscientific experiment conducted by a TV network"

Is lending credibility?

[Mike Oxlong]

Leave it to the Grauniad to give it international legs.

"fanciful theories"
"according to an unscientific experiment conducted by a TV network"

Is lending credibility?

By reporting it, the obvious gag, as "news" alongside the more factual content, yes it certainly is. It's not worth a mention in that sort of an article. That belongs in a Wacky Japan bit in the entertainment section. That wasn't an experiment, and I sure hope you can see that.

[Wage Slave]

I think you are taking the whole thing more than a bit too seriously. News reporting on Japanese TV or in UK newspapers doesn't have to be completely solemn all the time and the words "fanciful theories" and "according to an unscientific experiment conducted by a TV network" are perfectly sufficient for any reasonable ordinary person to understand the status of the proposition.

[Mike Oxlong]

I think you are taking the whole thing more than a bit too seriously. News reporting on Japanese TV or in UK newspapers doesn't have to be completely solemn all the time and the words "fanciful theories" and "according to an unscientific experiment conducted by a TV network" are perfectly sufficient for any reasonable ordinary person to understand the status of the proposition.

Oh sure, any reader without any familiarity with Japanese TV and language will immediately be able to put that in context.

[Wage Slave]

Speak for yourself. Here in Tokyo, which is also part of Japan, I think that it's madness. The supermarkets are choc a bloc with people, with the oba and ojisans picking up every package of meat for inspection. The parks are full of kids playing and social distancing is a total joke. There will be a price to pay for this madness, unless you think that the Japanese have some unique genetic make-up, which immunizes them against Covid 19. I've been reading that the first wave of Covid 19 in Japan, in February, was similar to the original Wuhan strain, which was less virulent in its contagion rate and less dangerous to mortality. This recent strain of COVID 19 in Japan, since early March, is more like the strain being found in Europe, brought back to Japan by Japanese tourists who visited Europe. The USA strain of Covid 19, apart from California, is a pure European strain and the consequences are there to see.

I think that, in 4 weeks, we will see the consequences of this 'Mockdown'. You can say, on June 4th, 'I told you so', if I am wrong. I will not, out of respect to the large number of deaths that I think will inevitably come from this 'head in the sand' approach of Japanese society, do likewise, if I am right.

So I'll say it now, 'I told you so' , and hope that I will be proven wrong.

Still feeling confident? There hasn't been a new case around here (6.5 million people) for 4 weeks. Of the 45 cases in total, one person has died. Of course the big cities are far worse but compared to London, Madrid or New York not bad at all. Something has worked and it would be really useful to know exactly what.