When the looting starts, the shooting starts ...

[Russell]

We are humans, unfortunately. Pack animals like dogs. If humans don't have an alpha to follow, things will fall spart very quickly. These protests are a good example for what happens, when humans don't have a 'top dog' to look up to and follow the smell of his arse. Then they start to protest for the sake of the protest or for any pet peeves they might have at the moment. Or just loot because why not. Without a clear leader, nothing will come out of this, the cops will remain gangsters and black peeps will keep dying. Business as usual.

Panem et circenses (bread and circuses) should be given to the people to keep them satisfied, according to the Romans. With 50 million people with little savings suddenly out of a job in the US and no major sports events on the calender, what do you expect?

[Wage Slave]

We are humans, unfortunately. Pack animals like dogs. If humans don't have an alpha to follow, things will fall spart very quickly. These protests are a good example for what happens, when humans don't have a 'top dog' to look up to and follow the smell of his arse. Then they start to protest for the sake of the protest or for any pet peeves they might have at the moment. Or just loot because why not. Without a clear leader, nothing will come out of this, the cops will remain gangsters and black peeps will keep dying. Business as usual.

Wise words. And There isn't a lot of use in wishing people acted otherwise. They don't. And anyone who knows how to be a good alpha knows that.

[Thanatos' embalmed botfly]

[Wage Slave]

They were peaceful, I heard it on the news. And on Twitter. And on the other news. All the people I like said so. Those bastard cops lied. The church lady said all cops are bastards. Church people would never lie. Because Jesus. Wage Slave has faith. In faith. And in reporters. FTP. Especially colored police. Believe all people of color though. Cognitive dissonance much? Christ.

You are clearly pretty upset and I regret that. I had no intention of making you feel that way. At the regrettable risk of making it even worse, I feel I have a right to reply - at least the part of that aimed directly at me.

"The church lady said all cops are bastards."

No she didn't. She didn't say anything about all cops and it is pretty obvious they were simply obeying orders. I will leave it to you to judge the limits of that particular get out.

"Church people would never lie. Because Jesus. Wage Slave has faith. In faith."

Please note and accept the truth of the statement that I am not a Christian and I do not believe that church people never lie. I do though have respect for the beliefs and practices of parts of most religions and that includes sections of Christianity. I note that the Anglican church (of which this church is a part) doesn't have a track record of bearing false witness in matters such as these. Further, I fail to see any motivation for church members and leaders to lie or even twist the truth in this situation. What is in it for them? On the contrary, there is plenty of motivation for supporters of the incumbent president to twist the truth and distract from what was an odious and morally wrong publicity stunt..

[matsuki]

I think he was more commenting on the mainstream outlets which are promoting a narrative that doesn't exist...

https://archive.is/XLNh4

This charge of systemic police bias was wrong during the Obama years and remains so today. However sickening the video of Floyd’s arrest, it isn’t representative of the 375 million annual contacts that police officers have with civilians. A solid body of evidence finds no structural bias in the criminal-justice system with regard to arrests, prosecution or sentencing. Crime and suspect behavior, not race, determine most police actions.

...but lately, seems any "white" person that questions the narrative is labelled a racist. Trump isn't doing a great job here, twitter rants are not what the country needs and I'm not so sure that even if he did better, the half of the population that hate him would even listen...you have the "Thanks Obama" people on the right and "but Trump!!" on the left that dismiss any actual discussion. The claims of dictatorship, nazi germany, etc. are just fucking ridiculous. I really don't like the guy but he's condemned the murder and proclaimed he wants to see justice served. Anything less than that would have been unacceptable but when you also have people out there demanding slave reparations and claiming all white people are evil. How do you reason with unreasonable people? (You can't)

[Wage Slave]

I think he was more commenting on the mainstream outlets which are promoting a narrative that doesn't exist...

https://archive.is/XLNh4

This charge of systemic police bias was wrong during the Obama years and remains so today. However sickening the video of Floyd’s arrest, it isn’t representative of the 375 million annual contacts that police officers have with civilians. A solid body of evidence finds no structural bias in the criminal-justice system with regard to arrests, prosecution or sentencing. Crime and suspect behavior, not race, determine most police actions.

You should note that you have quoted from an editorial - aka an opinion piece. And it begs a couple of very important and fundamental questions. Forget about the racial element for a moment and tell me why you think there is no evidence of problem with the police killing too many people in America. Because Rwanda and Sudan are actually a bit worse? So even before we consider the reasons black people are way over represented, the police in the USA kill far more people than any other developed country. It would I suppose be very unfair to compare the US with European countries, or heaven forfend Japan, so let's choose Canada. Over three time as many people killed by the police (9.7 as opposed to 30.4 per 10 million people). How about the poor and violent neighbours Mexico? Well there's not much in it but actually the US is slightly worse than Mexico. And yet you claim there is no systemic problem?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_by_country

[Mike Oxlong]

It's no problem WS. In my haste to post before leaving the house, I neglected to add something that may have clarified my intent somewhat...

Anyway, back to some slightly more serious comments. I don't think Matsuki's proposition can be dismissed so easily.

This charge of systemic police bias was wrong during the Obama years and remains so today. However sickening the video of Floyd’s arrest, it isn’t representative of the 375 million annual contacts that police officers have with civilians. A solid body of evidence finds no structural bias in the criminal-justice system with regard to arrests, prosecution or sentencing. Crime and suspect behavior, not race, determine most police actions.

In 2019 police officers fatally shot 1,004 people, most of whom were armed or otherwise dangerous. African-Americans were about a quarter of those killed by cops last year (235), a ratio that has remained stable since 2015. That share of black victims is less than what the black crime rate would predict, since police shootings are a function of how often officers encounter armed and violent suspects. In 2018, the latest year for which such data have been published, African-Americans made up 53% of known homicide offenders in the U.S. and commit about 60% of robberies, though they are 13% of the population.

The latest in a series of studies undercutting the claim of systemic police bias was published in August 2019 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The researchers found that the more frequently officers encounter violent suspects from any given racial group, the greater the chance that a member of that group will be fatally shot by a police officer. There is “no significant evidence of antiblack disparity in the likelihood of being fatally shot by police,” they concluded.

A 2015 Justice Department analysis of the Philadelphia Police Department found that white police officers were less likely than black or Hispanic officers to shoot unarmed black suspects. Research by Harvard economist Roland G. Fryer Jr. also found no evidence of racial discrimination in shootings. Any evidence to the contrary fails to take into account crime rates and civilian behavior before and during interactions with police.

The false narrative of systemic police bias resulted in targeted killings of officers during the Obama presidency. The pattern may be repeating itself. Officers are being assaulted and shot at while they try to arrest gun suspects or respond to the growing riots. Police precincts and courthouses have been destroyed with impunity, which will encourage more civilization-destroying violence. If the Ferguson effect of officers backing off law enforcement in minority neighborhoods is reborn as the Minneapolis effect, the thousands of law-abiding African-Americans who depend on the police for basic safety will once again be the victims.

The Minneapolis officers who arrested George Floyd must be held accountable for their excessive use of force and callous indifference to his distress. Police training needs to double down on de-escalation tactics. But Floyd’s death should not undermine the legitimacy of American law enforcement, without which we will continue on a path toward chaos.

From WSJ

[Scipio]

Matsuki, The commonality of 'A'merican, 'A'buse and 'A'uthority is not just in the letter 'A'. Give Asian Americans the same 'authority' over the 'minor' races, which 'White' Americans presently have over all their lesser racial co-citizens, they too might interact in a similar manner, when challenged - imagined or real - to their assumed birthright of dominance.
However the present USA is still a WASPish society and criticism of America today is a criticism of white people, because they have the power in the USA. An African-American doesn't like the color of my skin, he stops me drinking in the same bar as him/her or dating his sister/brother.... that's as far has his racism affects my daily life.

[Grumpy Gramps]

Interesting: They upped the charge from third degree murder to second degree. Wonder, what that means. It surely looks nice in front of the protesters and the victim's family, but OTOH it will be pretty hard to proof intent "beyond reasonable doubt".

Are they planning for a "walk out of jail free" card for lack of evidence for Chauvin?

[Mike Oxlong]

Interesting: They upped the charge from third degree murder to second degree. Wonder, what that means. It surely looks nice in front of the protesters and the victim's family, but OTOH it will be pretty hard to proof intent "beyond reasonable doubt".

Are they planning for a "walk out of jail free" card for lack of evidence for Chauvin?

If one subscribes to the never Trump movement, then perhaps it's a play to have a mistrial or acquittal due to the higher bar of evidence. That could influence an election if it happens by the fall this year. The state attorney general sure has come about face on the issue of the need for time to do a proper investigation. Can't read his mind. Not sure where he's going with this.

[matsuki]

Forget about the racial element for a moment and tell me why you think there is no evidence of problem with the police killing too many people in America. Because Rwanda and Sudan are actually a bit worse? So even before we consider the reasons black people are way over represented, the police in the USA kill far more people than any other developed country. It would I suppose be very unfair to compare the US with European countries, or heaven forfend Japan, so let's choose Canada. Over three time as many people killed by the police (9.7 as opposed to 30.4 per 10 million people). How about the poor and violent neighbours Mexico? Well there's not much in it but actually the US is slightly worse than Mexico. And yet you claim there is no systemic problem?

My assertion was the data simply doesn't show the systemic racial bias that's being claimed. No doubt it previously existed, needed addressing, and there are plenty of racists cops that still need to be weeded out....but the most recent data just doesn't fit the claims that nothing has changed or it's worse than before. "He'd still be alive if he was white" is an unfair claim. Even if we assume the cop(s) here were racially motivated, the data doesn't show their behavior as reflective of the country-wide policing efforts. Not that his previous or this specific criminal activity are in any way an excuse for his murder...but the sad reality is "He'd still be alive if he made better choices in life." Apparently he also tested positive for Coronavirus, and had fentanyl + methamphetamine in his system at the time of his death.

As to US police killings, police brutality, etc., I'm in agreement with you and everyone else that it's a problem and we need to see systematic change.

[matsuki]

the present USA is still a WASPish society and criticism of America today is a criticism of white people, because they have the power in the USA. An African-American doesn't like the color of my skin, he stops me drinking in the same bar as him/her or dating his sister/brother.... that's as far has his racism affects my daily life.

Try asking a few African Americans (that is actual naturalized Americans from Africa) their POV on being black in American society. When I was in college, I thought we were going to get jumped at the university bar because my Kenyan friend berated a black thug about his entitlement, lack of responsibility, and blaming his situation on racism and oppression. This Kenyan guy was like the sweetest dude I knew but at that moment, he was all up in this guys face with "You know nothing of real racism and oppression! If this was real racism and oppression we wouldn't be in this bar. I wouldn't have the opportunity to get this type of education! People like you make black people look bad!!" It's 2020, racism is rightfully condemned by American law, American society, American businesses, and by the vast majority of individual American citizens. Diversity is celebrated and encouraged everywhere you look. Where I grew up, the diversity was appreciated as a positive aspect of the community. I remember my parents specifically saying they chose the city because of how diverse it was. The ideals are there to strive for, the laws are there to be enforced, and the majority of the population is in agreement racism in intolerable. That is not what I'd define as a "WASPish society."

[Russell]

Buffalo police shoving elderly man to ground

"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." ― George Orwell

[Russell]

Apparently he also tested positive for Coronavirus, and had fentanyl + methamphetamine in his system at the time of his death.

This has nothing to do with his death.

[Russell]

Forget about the racial element for a moment and tell me why you think there is no evidence of problem with the police killing too many people in America. Because Rwanda and Sudan are actually a bit worse? So even before we consider the reasons black people are way over represented, the police in the USA kill far more people than any other developed country. It would I suppose be very unfair to compare the US with European countries, or heaven forfend Japan, so let's choose Canada. Over three time as many people killed by the police (9.7 as opposed to 30.4 per 10 million people). How about the poor and violent neighbours Mexico? Well there's not much in it but actually the US is slightly worse than Mexico. And yet you claim there is no systemic problem?

My assertion was the data simply doesn't show the systemic racial bias that's being claimed. No doubt it previously existed, needed addressing, and there are plenty of racists cops that still need to be weeded out....but the most recent data just doesn't fit the claims that nothing has changed or it's worse than before. "He'd still be alive if he was white" is an unfair claim. Even if we assume the cop(s) here were racially motivated, the data doesn't show their behavior as reflective of the country-wide policing efforts.

Don't know where you get your data from, but the data does show that black people are 3 times more likely to be killed by police than white people in the US, while black people are 1.3 times more likely to be unarmed than white people. Check the link out, and you will see that there is no correlation with crime rates.

[matsuki]

Apparently he also tested positive for Coronavirus, and had fentanyl + methamphetamine in his system at the time of his death.

This has nothing to do with his death.

I'm not arguing they were contributing factors to the cause of death, that officer unjustifiably murdered him and it's pretty clear there was intent based on how long the cop just laid into him. That's murder whether it was due to suffocation or some other complication from compressing the guys neck for that long.

My issue is many people are portraying the guy as a "gentle giant" and claiming that race is what got him into this situation leading to the conclusion any black man risks his life going out in public. His violent criminal record says otherwise and his race obviously isn't the reason this confrontation began. (though we may find it's what motivated the asshole cop in his death)

Here are the toxicology report findings:

Toxicology testing performed on antemortem blood specimens collected 5/25/20 at 9:00 p.m. at HHC and on postmortem urine) A. Blood drug and novel psychoactive substances screens: 1. Fentanyl 11 ng/mL 2. Norfentanyl 5.6 ng/mL 3. 4-ANPP 0.65 ng/mL 4. Methamphetamine 19 ng/mL 5. 11-Hydroxy Delta-9 THC 1.2 ng/mL; Delta-9 Carboxy THC 42 ng/mL; Delta-9 THC 2.9 ng/mL

He didn't deserve to be murdered for his poor decisions in life (though others may not agree with this sentiment when they find out he pointed a gun at the belly of a pregnant woman while robbing her) but without a full picture of this particular situation, false narratives are being pushed. A 10 ng/ml of Fentanyl for anesthesia is common. It's also probably a synthetic version of Fentanyl so who knows how messed up he really was....and this guy was behind the wheel of a vehicle. Was this a case of an inexcusable and trajic murder by the police that appears to be racially motivated, no doubt. What this a case that demonstrates any innocent black man has to fear for his life in public, not so much.

Don't know where you get your data from, but the data does show that black people are 3 times more likely to be killed by police than white people in the US, while black people are 1.3 times more likely to be unarmed than white people. Check the link out, and you will see that there is no correlation with crime rates.

I think we're looking at the same data with different interpretations...so context is important:

Source 1: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/20 ... s/table-43

Source 2: https://www.theroot.com/heres-how-many- ... 1821706614

Source 3: https://www.diversityinc.com/data-polic ... ople-2017/

Source 4: https://www.nber.org/papers/w22399?utm_ ... source=ntw

Source 5: https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2019/the- ... shootings/

Source 6: https://www.dailywire.com/news/mac-dona ... iGNiBVmSpw

All this to say I agree police shootings, violence, and racism are indeed issues that need more addressing but disagree with the current narrative that is overstating the racial aspects, claiming no progress in 75 years, and non-violent means are not an option.

[Wage Slave]

Forget about the racial element for a moment and tell me why you think there is no evidence of problem with the police killing too many people in America. Because Rwanda and Sudan are actually a bit worse? So even before we consider the reasons black people are way over represented, the police in the USA kill far more people than any other developed country. It would I suppose be very unfair to compare the US with European countries, or heaven forfend Japan, so let's choose Canada. Over three time as many people killed by the police (9.7 as opposed to 30.4 per 10 million people). How about the poor and violent neighbours Mexico? Well there's not much in it but actually the US is slightly worse than Mexico. And yet you claim there is no systemic problem?

My assertion was the data simply doesn't show the systemic racial bias that's being claimed. No doubt it previously existed, needed addressing, and there are plenty of racists cops that still need to be weeded out....but the most recent data just doesn't fit the claims that nothing has changed or it's worse than before. "He'd still be alive if he was white" is an unfair claim. Even if we assume the cop(s) here were racially motivated, the data doesn't show their behavior as reflective of the country-wide policing efforts.

Don't know where you get your data from, but the data does show that black people are 3 times more likely to be killed by police than white people in the US, while black people are 1.3 times more likely to be unarmed than white people. Check the link out, and you will see that there is no correlation with crime rates.

The WSJ article claims that the police have over 3 times more contacts with black people than white so therefore there is no evidence that they are killing a disproportionate number of black people. That of course begs the question of why the police have so much more contact with black people. They are far more involved in crime say the WSJ so that's why there is so much more contact. I would ask whether contact is really related to the amount of crime committed or the enthusiasm of the police for detecting it in the black community compared to the white and the appetite of the police for acting on some crimes and not others. They have little to no interest in white collar crime even though it mains, kills and impoverishes people all the time. By the merest of co-incidences white collar crime is predominantly committed by not black people. It also begs questions about systemic racism keeping people in the poverty which feeds the kind of crime the police are most interested in detecting and punishing. I found it reprehensibly simplistic and dismissive. Nothing to see here, move along. The world, and indeed people just don't work in that simplistic kind of way. Black people don't have far more contact with the police simply because they are inherently or by choice or a combination of the two, more criminal.

[Grumpy Gramps]

Maybe there is also an aspect of "the nature of the beast" in it. What kind of person becomes a cop? Who'd be excited to start their career issuing parking tickets to baa-chans or checking, whether that gaijin's bicycle is stolen or legit?

I do think that this peculiar type of personality might also tend to be close to the right edge of the political spectrum; can't prove it, though, just a gutt feeling. In Germany, I'd always wondered, why the cops would protect the neonazi-marches and make sure, they'd end as peaceful as possible, while when the lefties were out, they'd very quickly bring in the waterthrowers.

Kind of hard to imagine a cop reading Chomsky before bed-time

[matsuki]

The WSJ article claims that the police have over 3 times more contacts with black people than white so therefore there is no evidence that they are killing a disproportionate number of black people. That of course begs the question of why the police have so much more contact with black people. They are far more involved in crime say the WSJ so that's why there is so much more contact. I would ask whether contact is really related to the amount of crime committed or the enthusiasm of the police for detecting it in the black community compared to the white and the appetite of the police for acting on some crimes and not others. They have little to no interest in white collar crime even though it mains, kills and impoverishes people all the time. By the merest of co-incidences white collar crime is predominantly committed by not black people. It also begs questions about systemic racism keeping people in the poverty which feeds the kind of crime the police are most interested in detecting and punishing.

These are all legit questions but in the absence of those answers and the lack of specific laws/policies/ordinances being questioned here, can we assume it's "systematic racism?" The system says racism is illegal, at least in writing.

I found it reprehensibly simplistic and dismissive. Nothing to see here, move along. The world, and indeed people just don't work in that simplistic kind of way.

I am not dismissing the issues we're discussing, just saying I believe they're overstated. Yes, it is a simplistic explanation but it's a straight forward and logical explanation of what the data shows. If the data is skewed due to the issues you're questioning, I agree that needs to be addressed and reflected in how conclusions are drawn from the data. I agree we need more detailed data but as you'll see below, I think there is another area that takes priority when it comes to addressing the issues.

Black people don't have far more contact with the police simply because they are inherently or by choice or a combination of the two, more criminal.

A little from column A, a little from column B....

So we know there are racist cops, trigger happy cops, no doubt that accounts for part of the issue....and let's be clear...it's not "black people" but "black men" in those stats....most of them young men. When boys of any race grow up with in poverty with a single mother, without positive role modes, they tend to act out. Add to that a specific group where the culture that tells you you're oppressed before you even understand what that means, rationalizes and glamorizes crime against your oppressors, and violence is your only resort because the law is broken. My point is it starts with (lack of) family and positive guidance. I don't have a simple explanation for the causes of the below data but if you can remedy the family and culture, even with shitty police, the problem is going to shrink by magnitudes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-A ... _structure

https://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/t ... 13/432,431

It's not just black men, Natives are #2 on the broken family scale, have a worse racial/slave history in the US than blacks...but when most are out of sight on reservations, it doesn't get brought up in the mainstream media.

[wangta]

Great post Matsuki.

People need to get off this 'Ohhh you're accusing black people of being inclined to crime more than whites or Asians, etc'.
Nope, context is everything here. Mike Brown who apparently lunged for a policeman's gun and was shot in the street in some bumfuck city in some state in the USA - I say apparently cause there was no body camera or other video evidence - had a lot of free time. In a disadvantaged area of town.

The reason why the police stopped him wasn't because he was jaywalking so much as a young black man had just robbed a store, choking out the sales clerk who happened to also be a young black man. Description was similar to that of Mike Brown and another black man isn't going to think and say 'Oh we all look the same, it probably wasn't him'. During the riots that followed Prez Obama called the rioters 'thugs'. Just for some context.

Tamar Rice in Boston, I think, pointed a replica pistol at police. This is real police training as opposed to the actions of the cop thug pinning down George Floyd and killing him. You don't wait to ask somebody in the street 'Oh is that a real weapon?' You shoot as your life as a police officer and probably the lives of those with you are being threatened from the evidence at hand in the very limited time you have to react.

Rice seems non too bright and his dumb action cost him his life sadly. The media kept running photos of him just like Mike Brown with a graduation from JHS or HS cap on and wearing a gown and looking much younger than he was at the time of death and in fact both were quite big and powerful young guys. The Brown and Rice incidents didn't happen in nice middle class suburbia. The black underclass is disproportionately killed and the context tells us what we need to know. Hanging around on the street in disadvantaged areas, maybe hustling weed or other low level drugs to get some money, is going to get you into contact with police far more easily.

In a different country some fuckery just happened which shows how hysterical and in fact dishonest the mob aspect of the protests are. In Sweden which has turned into a country with an unenviable rape problem and assault weapons being discharged as well as a big increase in the street drug trade that was absent before the big drive of the left wing government to bring in asylum seekers - note I say asylum seekers, not UN certified refugees - a sniveling policewoman just knelt before a group of protesters from such communities.

She and her co-police woman were surrounded by a mob looking violent and you know what, they don't respect the police in Sweden anyway. Swedish police from my observations having visited the country a number of times have simply surrendered to the fear of the discrimination card being pulled and actually not policed enough. The lesson from Sweden is that you don't just import big numbers of angry young men from countries and cultures that have nothing in common with yours especially with how free women are or rather were in Sweden.

Sweden has experienced a big jump in violent assaults, gang related rivalries ending with children in housing projects being hit by military style small rockets, a sharp rise in sexual assaults against women, etc. The problem is not police brutality - the problem is showing weakness to those who commit real crimes because they don't want to upset the 'immigrants' . The problem is they lose all ways - the imports who have caused these serious problems don't respect the police or society anyway and giving way and kneeling to them will solve zip and make things worse.

Fuck this growing global hysteria and those with the agendas pushing it.

[Mike Oxlong]

In the US, the FBI is responsible for investigating allegations of criminal deprivations of civil rights.
https://www.justice.gov/crt/addressing- ... nt-justice

Thanks, the last time I asked that I didn't really get an answer. What is their record like? Can they investigate a force for institutional racism? How independent are they really ?How accessible are they?

Is it the case that the police in America are not really accountable and there is a long standing need for root and branch reform to address things like canteen culture and institution racism?

It's not what it used to be, sadly. The Justice Department did enforce police reform with court oversight but that was weakened under Attorney General Sessions.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/crime ... story.html

The Justice Department investigation found widespread discriminatory and unconstitutional policing in the department going back decades, and it then negotiated with the city to produce the lengthy list of reform mandates in the consent decree. The work is ongoing.
One year into consent decree, Baltimore Police reforms move forward slowly and behind the scenes

Lhamon, a Maryland resident and Democrat appointed to the commission by President Barack Obama in 2016, said consent decrees have been shown to improve police departments and their constitutional treatment of citizens, and reduce use of force. And she criticized what she said was the Trump administration’s “unprecedented” and “deeply dangerous” abdication of its duty to oversee local police departments, including through the use of such agreements.

Lhamon said Sessions’ memo, making it far less likely that consent decrees will be struck with problematic police departments moving forward, ignores pleas for reforms from citizens and police officers across the country.

https://www.propublica.org/article/trum ... government

The move is just one part of a move by the Trump administration to limit federal civil rights enforcement. Other departments have scaled back the power of their internal divisions that monitor such abuses. In a previously unreported development, the Education Department last week reversed an Obama-era reform that broadened the agency’s approach to protecting rights of students. The Labor Department and the Environmental Protection Agency have also announced sweeping cuts to their enforcement.

“At best, this administration believes that civil rights enforcement is superfluous and can be easily cut. At worst, it really is part of a systematic agenda to roll back civil rights,” said Vanita Gupta, the former acting head of the DOJ’s civil rights division under President Barack Obama.

After protests and outrage, people tried to work within the system... and then the new administration decided they just didn't care.

A curious analysis...

Under President Obama the Department of Justice did not file any civil rights charges against cops for the deaths of Freddie Gray, Eric Garner, Tamir Rice, Michael Brown, Trayvon Martin, Sandra Bland or Philando Castile. Where was the supposed "national conversation" about policing before Sessions apparently stopped it? BLM is an Obama era organization, born out of the deep dissatisfaction that it was all hope, and no change.

[Wage Slave]

Atlanta Black Panthers.jpg

Photo Credit: @traexaustin at @winspiredmedia

[jingai]

Under President Obama the Department of Justice did not file any civil rights charges against cops for the deaths of Freddie Gray, Eric Garner, Tamir Rice, Michael Brown, Trayvon Martin, Sandra Bland or Philando Castile. Where was the supposed "national conversation" about policing before Sessions apparently stopped it? BLM is an Obama era organization, born out of the deep dissatisfaction that it was all hope, and no change.

[/quote]

I don't see what you are trying to say. The issue of police reform and accountability was very much in the public eye (and news) during the second Obama term catalyzed by the beginning of Black Lives Matter. That is the conversation and it never ended.

I think you are trying to make a Manichean case that Trump is all good and Obama is all bad (or opposite from a liberal perspective), but the reality is the criminal justice system as a whole has chronic issues never seriously addressed by those in power. I just watched a good documentary on Netflix about the 1992 LA riots and showed echoes of Watts in 1965. The ending had George H.W. Bush giving a speech only about restoring law and order and nothing whatsoever about addressing the causes of the riots.

Back to the issue at hand- in addition to consent decrees to force corrupt police forces into judicial oversight, one of the bright spots of the Obama years was limiting the flow of military-grade equipment to local police forces:

In response to the tragedy in Ferguson, President Obama established the Federal Interagency Law Enforcement Equipment Working Group in May 2015. Its purpose: to review law enforcement acquisition procedures and use of military grade equipment and funding. In the following months, the group issued a set of recommendations to limit the types of equipment flowing to local law enforcement agencies, improve government oversight and tracking of this equipment, and increase training for agencies that receive it.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/ ... ice-reform

contrast that with

"The Republican president has reversed or cut back many of his Democratic predecessor’s policies since taking office in January."
Aug 27, 2017:

Trump’s executive order said, “All executive departments and agencies are directed, as of the date of this order and consistent with Federal law, to cease implementing those recommendations and, if necessary, to take prompt action to rescind any rules, regulations, guidelines, or policies implementing them.”

The use of military equipment in Ferguson prompted a wider outcry over the use of war-fighting equipment by local law enforcement agencies in the United States.

After a review, Obama barred the military from transferring certain types of equipment to police or sheriff’s departments, including tracked armored vehicles, armed aircraft or vehicles of any kind, .50-caliber firearms and ammunition, grenade launchers, bayonets and camouflage uniforms.

Obama also required law enforcement agencies to justify the need for items like helicopters and other aircraft, wheeled armored vehicles, unmanned drones, riot helmets and “flash-bang” grenades.

“These restrictions that had been imposed went too far,” U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions told a meeting of the Fraternal Order of Police union in Nashville, Tennessee, earlier on Monday.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1B81TI

[jingai]

Under a 1994 law, the attorney general has the right to sue local police departments that have engaged in constitutional abuses. Under Obama, the Department of Justice used that power to threaten localities with lawsuits and get them to agree to voluntary court-supervised oversight. The Obama administration opened 25 investigations of police departments that resulted in at least 15 consent decrees leading to court oversight of police departments in cities ranging from Chicago to Ferguson to Baltimore. In municipalities across the country, the DOJ mandates have included bias training and official monitoring of incidents of bias, independent investigations of use-of-force incidents, de-escalation training, and limits on how and when police can interact with citizens. At the very least, these departments understood they were being watched and had to regularly report progress to a judge.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/202 ... eform.html

It was a start. You can see how not continuing such policies is just pouring gasoline and waiting for a spark.

Now a bigger conversation is starting about the role of police in society, whether they have mission creep and are tasked with things that really aren't their job (handling mentally ill, homeless, etc.) and redirecting resources from law enforcement and mass incarceration to social programs. Basically nation-building at home instead of periodic uprisings met with force (which hasn't worked out so well in Iraq or Afghanistan either).

[matsuki]

Now a bigger conversation is starting about the role of police in society, whether they have mission creep and are tasked with things that really aren't their job (handling mentally ill, homeless, etc.) and redirecting resources from law enforcement and mass incarceration to social programs. Basically nation-building at home instead of periodic uprisings met with force (which hasn't worked out so well in Iraq or Afghanistan either).

Without dismissing the racism issue, I think this is what should be the main focus of the protests. Being white sure isn't saving protesters from being beat down and arrested.

I'm still appalled by the people arguing the riots, violence, murders, and looting are the solution...."well, it's all insured anyways! No one really gets hurt!! WTF?

How can those people not consider that when all this shit dies down, business owners, home owners, etc. that have had their property destroyed, burned, looted, there is going to be major lingering hate. We're talking about people who weren't racist before, black people, etc. You have Floyd's family, black government officials, and black business owners out there tell people it's not a step forward and distracts from the issue....when I've seen white/brown/asian people posting on facebook about how it was a long time coming? It's like people lost their minds during the Coronavirus lockdown....speaking of which, is of course spreading like wildfire because of the gatherings.

[Mike Oxlong]

I think you are trying to make a Manichean case that Trump is all good and Obama is all bad (or opposite from a liberal perspective), but the reality is the criminal justice system as a whole has chronic issues never seriously addressed by those in power. I just watched a good documentary on Netflix about the 1992 LA riots and showed echoes of Watts in 1965. The ending had George H.W. Bush giving a speech only about restoring law and order and nothing whatsoever about addressing the causes of the riots.

Interesting bringing up Los Angeles. The LAPD had back-to-back black Chiefs from 1992 to 2002, the first one was appointed by a four term black mayor. This "diversity" didn't stop charges of "institutional racism". Not sure we can blame W for all that.

As for military surplus, the National Defense Authorization Act was greatly expanded during the Clinton years, allowing local law enforcement agencies access to surplus military equipment. Further, the NDDA is poorly understood by the public - there were restrictions and oversight in place before Obama's moves to placate his base.

But only about 5 percent of the equipment is weapons, and fewer than 1 percent is tactical vehicles, according to the defense official.

Much of the gear is non-military items, such as office equipment, blankets and sleeping bags, computers, digital cameras and video recorders, binoculars, flashlights, extreme weather clothing, repair tools, first-aid supplies and TVs.

The official said all tactical vehicles are “stripped down” before they are given to law enforcement, and are without weapons.

Just because the Pentagon doesn’t need a particular item doesn’t mean law enforcement agencies can use it. The logistics agency has to approve every type of item that can be transferred.

The Defense Logistics Agency has the final authority to determine what excess military property is suitable for use in law enforcement activities.

But 1033 is primarily run by state program coordinators, which initially approve or deny local law enforcement requests for military gear.

“There is some vetting at our level,” the defense official said, “but it’s pretty minimal.”

The logistics agency generally approves requests “as long as there’s nothing crazy about it,” such as a request for attack vehicles, according to the official.

The agency does on-site inspections to make sure police forces are abiding by regulations, such as maintaining proper inventory records.

https://www.stripes.com/how-and-why-loc ... t-1.299570

[matsuki]

How many times have you hear the locals chime in regarding the violence, destruction, and looting?

"This could never happen in Japan! Japanese would never do this! Terror group? Japanese would never become terrorists."

Rice Riots (cough cough) Koza Riots (cough cough) Red Army (cough cough) Aum Shinrikyo (cough couch) I better get checked for Corona after all this coughing...

[Russell]

Apparently he also tested positive for Coronavirus, and had fentanyl + methamphetamine in his system at the time of his death.

This has nothing to do with his death.

I'm not arguing they were contributing factors to the cause of death, that officer unjustifiably murdered him and it's pretty clear there was intent based on how long the cop just laid into him. That's murder whether it was due to suffocation or some other complication from compressing the guys neck for that long.

My issue is many people are portraying the guy as a "gentle giant" and claiming that race is what got him into this situation leading to the conclusion any black man risks his life going out in public. His violent criminal record says otherwise and his race obviously isn't the reason this confrontation began. (though we may find it's what motivated the asshole cop in his death)

Here are the toxicology report findings:

Toxicology testing performed on antemortem blood specimens collected 5/25/20 at 9:00 p.m. at HHC and on postmortem urine) A. Blood drug and novel psychoactive substances screens: 1. Fentanyl 11 ng/mL 2. Norfentanyl 5.6 ng/mL 3. 4-ANPP 0.65 ng/mL 4. Methamphetamine 19 ng/mL 5. 11-Hydroxy Delta-9 THC 1.2 ng/mL; Delta-9 Carboxy THC 42 ng/mL; Delta-9 THC 2.9 ng/mL

He didn't deserve to be murdered for his poor decisions in life (though others may not agree with this sentiment when they find out he pointed a gun at the belly of a pregnant woman while robbing her) but without a full picture of this particular situation, false narratives are being pushed. A 10 ng/ml of Fentanyl for anesthesia is common. It's also probably a synthetic version of Fentanyl so who knows how messed up he really was....and this guy was behind the wheel of a vehicle. Was this a case of an inexcusable and trajic murder by the police that appears to be racially motivated, no doubt. What this a case that demonstrates any innocent black man has to fear for his life in public, not so much.

I wonder why you keep bringing up Floyd's criminal record, because it is irrelevant.

First of all, the guy was under control by the cops, so it does not make any difference that he should not have been treated that way.

Second, by focusing on his criminal record you appear to justify the violence of police to all black people. After all, they made bad choices in life, didn't they, so that's why they were killed, and so on? So, you have your data point (Floys), then let me give you my data point (and many more if you wish): how about the murder by cops of Breonna Taylor? They had a warrant for her boy friend of 2 years ago who happened to be already in police custody. Just a case of "trigger happy"? Or a case of "don't care because it is in a black neighborhood"?

Don't know where you get your data from, but the data does show that black people are 3 times more likely to be killed by police than white people in the US, while black people are 1.3 times more likely to be unarmed than white people. Check the link out, and you will see that there is no correlation with crime rates.

I think we're looking at the same data with different interpretations...so context is important:

Source 1: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/20 ... s/table-43

Source 2: https://www.theroot.com/heres-how-many- ... 1821706614

Source 3: https://www.diversityinc.com/data-polic ... ople-2017/

Source 4: https://www.nber.org/papers/w22399?utm_ ... source=ntw

Source 5: https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2019/the- ... shootings/

Source 6: https://www.dailywire.com/news/mac-dona ... iGNiBVmSpw

Ouch, that is a lot of links. Care to be a bit more specific about the point you are trying to make?

All this to say I agree police shootings, violence, and racism are indeed issues that need more addressing but disagree with the current narrative that is overstating the racial aspects, claiming no progress in 75 years, and non-violent means are not an option.

I agree that some progress has been made. Just looking at the protestors, you see a wide variety of races, so that is definitely a positive sign.

However, there appears to be an institutional racist policy against black people. I trust the opinion of black people more in this matter than white people, because the latter don't experience the racism in person.

[Russell]

Interesting comment about that "tear gas".

[Mike Oxlong]

However, there appears to be an institutional racist policy against black people. I trust the opinion of black people more in this matter than white people, because the latter don't experience the racism in person.

Ok, let's hear their opinions...

Please tell us more about black opinion Russ.