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Wage Slave wrote:Well it is not too difficult to believe his rhetoric and mob rousing contributes. Is it really so hard to believe that the more simple minded of his followers feel justified in attacking Chinese looking people after they have heard him angrily refer to the China virus and blaming China for everything from unemployment to COVID19?
"It is very important that we totally protect our Asian American community in the United States, and all around the world,"
"They are amazing people, and the spreading of the Virus (...) is NOT their fault in any way, shape, or form. They are working closely with us to get rid of it. WE WILL PREVAIL TOGETHER!"
"Look what he's doing now. He's blaming everything on China. He's blaming everything on the Chinese... and people don't make a distinction, as you well know, from a South Korean and someone from Beijing," Biden continued. "They make no distinction, it's Asian. And he's using it as a wedge."
Wage Slave wrote:He tweeted that statement in March. And then went on to say again and again to emotional crowds that it was the China Virus, the China Plague, the Kung Flu and that China should have stopped the virus in its tracks but refused to do so and all the rest. Are we really surprised that some of his less cognitively endowed supporters then attack Chinese looking people wherever they encounter them? Actions and words have consequences - especially the actions and words of someone that a lot of people believe is a great leader and fount of wisdom.
matsuki wrote:Wage Slave wrote:He tweeted that statement in March. And then went on to say again and again to emotional crowds that it was the China Virus, the China Plague, the Kung Flu and that China should have stopped the virus in its tracks but refused to do so and all the rest. Are we really surprised that some of his less cognitively endowed supporters then attack Chinese looking people wherever they encounter them? Actions and words have consequences - especially the actions and words of someone that a lot of people believe is a great leader and fount of wisdom.
If it were up to me, I'd call it the Wuhan virus and make it clear that I hold the CCP's mishandling responsible for the global outbreak....not Asian Americans, not Asians, not Chinese Americans, and not Chinese people. It's a Chinese government fuck up they are not accepting responsibility for.
Wage Slave wrote:matsuki wrote:Wage Slave wrote:He tweeted that statement in March. And then went on to say again and again to emotional crowds that it was the China Virus, the China Plague, the Kung Flu and that China should have stopped the virus in its tracks but refused to do so and all the rest. Are we really surprised that some of his less cognitively endowed supporters then attack Chinese looking people wherever they encounter them? Actions and words have consequences - especially the actions and words of someone that a lot of people believe is a great leader and fount of wisdom.
If it were up to me, I'd call it the Wuhan virus and make it clear that I hold the CCP's mishandling responsible for the global outbreak....not Asian Americans, not Asians, not Chinese Americans, and not Chinese people. It's a Chinese government fuck up they are not accepting responsibility for.
Yeah, that can be argued. However, it is also the case that handling this particular virus without the benefit on hindsight was and is very difficult. If it would have been so easy, why have the US and Europe not got it under firm control even after they knew how serious it was from the Wuhan experience?
Wage Slave wrote:He tweeted that statement in March. And then went on to say again and again to emotional crowds that it was the China Virus, the China Plague, the Kung Flu and that China should have stopped the virus in its tracks but refused to do so and all the rest.
Coligny wrote:Wage Slave wrote:He tweeted that statement in March. And then went on to say again and again to emotional crowds that it was the China Virus, the China Plague, the Kung Flu and that China should have stopped the virus in its tracks but refused to do so and all the rest.
Well... a virus out of a city with a french built BSL4 lab working on bats, now taken under military leadership with increased funding to work on bio weapons...
You can be delusional all you want but occam’s razor will certainly call you back someday...
Also... one little thing still bothering me to no end... every outbreak of ebola trigger a massive hunt to find the origine and patient zero going up to swipe every monkeys ass in a 100km radius... But here... the amount of fuck not given is phenomenal almost reaching The amount of fuck i never gave to working on my final exams...(where I managed to get stuck in a cinema for a “Die Hard” trilogy screening on the date and times of the first exam... that I learned about only on the evening after because it was announced on the local news as every year)
Coligny wrote:Wage Slave wrote:He tweeted that statement in March. And then went on to say again and again to emotional crowds that it was the China Virus, the China Plague, the Kung Flu and that China should have stopped the virus in its tracks but refused to do so and all the rest.
Well... a virus out of a city with a french built BSL4 lab working on bats, now taken under military leadership with increased funding to work on bio weapons...
You can be delusional all you want but occam’s razor will certainly call you back someday...
Also... one little thing still bothering me to no end... every outbreak of ebola trigger a massive hunt to find the origine and patient zero going up to swipe every monkeys ass in a 100km radius... But here... the amount of fuck not given is phenomenal almost reaching The amount of fuck i never gave to working on my final exams...(where I managed to get stuck in a cinema for a “Die Hard” trilogy screening on the date and times of the first exam... that I learned about only on the evening after because it was announced on the local news as every year)
matsuki wrote:Coligny wrote:Wage Slave wrote:He tweeted that statement in March. And then went on to say again and again to emotional crowds that it was the China Virus, the China Plague, the Kung Flu and that China should have stopped the virus in its tracks but refused to do so and all the rest.
Well... a virus out of a city with a french built BSL4 lab working on bats, now taken under military leadership with increased funding to work on bio weapons...
You can be delusional all you want but occam’s razor will certainly call you back someday...
Also... one little thing still bothering me to no end... every outbreak of ebola trigger a massive hunt to find the origine and patient zero going up to swipe every monkeys ass in a 100km radius... But here... the amount of fuck not given is phenomenal almost reaching The amount of fuck i never gave to working on my final exams...(where I managed to get stuck in a cinema for a “Die Hard” trilogy screening on the date and times of the first exam... that I learned about only on the evening after because it was announced on the local news as every year)
THIS...
It's one think to bungle the handling of the outbreak....it's another to knowingly cover it up and spread misinformation while you seed it to the world and buy up all the PPE to send back to the homeland. Now it's so politicized, just talking about the origins makes you a racist, a xenophobe, and any legit data you have cancelled along with you.
Wage Slave wrote:Where is the evidence for:
"spread misinformation while you seed it to the world and buy up all the PPE to send back to the homeland" I haven't seen it.
Wage Slave wrote:Isn't that Falun Gong? If so I'm afraid I don't count religious cults as a reliable source. Sorry, but there we are.
matsuki wrote:Wage Slave wrote:Where is the evidence for:
"spread misinformation while you seed it to the world and buy up all the PPE to send back to the homeland" I haven't seen it.
Get to watching...
https://www.youtube.com/c/ChinaUncensored/videos
Mike Oxlong wrote:WS only reads The Grauniad and watches the Beebs. Any other news source is an abomination to him ( I doubt he uses that pronoun, but there it is ). In his mind Biden is 99% likely to be elected, and has not had his son shag children for dollars in a Chinese honeypot operation.
Wage Slave wrote:Coligny wrote:Wage Slave wrote:He tweeted that statement in March. And then went on to say again and again to emotional crowds that it was the China Virus, the China Plague, the Kung Flu and that China should have stopped the virus in its tracks but refused to do so and all the rest.
Well... a virus out of a city with a french built BSL4 lab working on bats, now taken under military leadership with increased funding to work on bio weapons...
You can be delusional all you want but occam’s razor will certainly call you back someday...
Also... one little thing still bothering me to no end... every outbreak of ebola trigger a massive hunt to find the origine and patient zero going up to swipe every monkeys ass in a 100km radius... But here... the amount of fuck not given is phenomenal almost reaching The amount of fuck i never gave to working on my final exams...(where I managed to get stuck in a cinema for a “Die Hard” trilogy screening on the date and times of the first exam... that I learned about only on the evening after because it was announced on the local news as every year)
Occam's razor points to something simpler - like a handling mistake. In addition the evidence, the last time I heard, pointed to a zoological rather than lab grown source. But yeah, there is also a theory that it was all deliberate and unleashed to damage the west.
Coligny wrote:matsuki wrote:Wage Slave wrote:Where is the evidence for:
"spread misinformation while you seed it to the world and buy up all the PPE to send back to the homeland" I haven't seen it.
Get to watching...
https://www.youtube.com/c/ChinaUncensored/videos
For the PPE stuff, your source for the chinese hoarding is basically the whole internet... Sure some of the juicier stories might come from less reliable sources. But that's it as far as negatingthe facts can go...
Wage Slave wrote:
OK, but it seems to me the truth is rather more nuanced that the sort of simplistic statements being made about China and PPE:
1. The US and NATO do not rely on the UN or the Chinese Government for information. There is good evidence first the US and then NATO/Israel were informed by US intelligence sources in November 2019 of the outbreak in Wuhan and the nature of the virus. They probably reasonably believed it would be like SARS 2 and kept under control by China.
Wage Slave wrote:2. In the early stages China was in the front line and fighting the outbreak. At that stage China needed PPE more than anyone else and it was in everyone's interests that Chinese medical staff had ample PPE if the outbreak was going to be contained. It is not surprising they were scrambling for PPE because they were using vast amounts. At that stage other countries' need was not nearly as great. Is there any evidence that China was buying PPE just to hoard it and so damage other countries? I have seen plenty of people allege and imply that but no evidence.
Wage Slave wrote:3. How the virus arrived in Europe and America is not known. It could well have been carried by Europeans and Americans returning from China or more likely from Wuhan as China appears to have restricted, via authoritarian control, the virus to that city. They couldn't stop foreigners from leaving Wuhan though - and we didn't insist on isolation until it was far too late.
matsuki wrote:
(in best Trump voice) WRONG!
Seriously though, the world was relying on the WTO and CCP for information. Just like SARS 1.0, what they got was cover up and disinformation (downplaying
I think the first motive was to hoard it for their party members, then there were many private Chinese citizens abroad who took cues from Chinese social media to buy out everywhere around them and profit on it. I think the case is much more difficult to make as far as malicious intent to damage other countries but it's possible and was the outcome of the hoarding and export bans.
I've pointed it out here before but the really hard hit area of Italy is the one who had hoards of Chinese workers flying in directly from Wuhan on the reg to work in sweatshops in Italy so they can still stamp "made in Italy" on designer products. The CCP could have sounded the alarm and attempted to quarantine foreigners but they were in cover up mode so allowed everyone to fly out internationally but locked out people from leaving the city to other parts of China. Was the intent to seed the world or just a shitty attempt to downplay and cover up? I lean to seed the world as the CCP was already silencing doctors and artificially lowering the data at this point. No problem here haha, nice day out iddnit?
Wage Slave wrote:matsuki wrote:
(in best Trump voice) WRONG!
Seriously though, the world was relying on the WTO and CCP for information. Just like SARS 1.0, what they got was cover up and disinformation (downplaying
Do you really believe that? That the US Government and military with all its intelligence recourse relies on the Chinese government and the (I assume you mean) WHO for information about a threat like this? Anyway, there is evidence from reliable sources. It is not something I am just making up.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/intelligence-report-warned-coronavirus-crisis-early-november-sources/story?id=70031273
https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-alerted-israel-nato-to-disease-outbreak-in-china-in-november-report/
Remember that D Trump himself happily admits he played down the danger of the virus for months while it gained traction. He said he didn't want to cause panic and it is fairly clear he didn't really belive it was going to be a serious problem. He might have banned people from China and Europe but did he ban Americans from returning? No. Did he insist they were quarantined? No. He didn't want to panic people.
Wage Slave wrote:I think the first motive was to hoard it for their party members, then there were many private Chinese citizens abroad who took cues from Chinese social media to buy out everywhere around them and profit on it. I think the case is much more difficult to make as far as malicious intent to damage other countries but it's possible and was the outcome of the hoarding and export bans.
The first bit looks like just stuff you are producing off the top of your head. Do you have any basis for saying any of this? And even if it is true, what reason do you have to think the number of these elite people could have a significant effect on a global scale? We know that hospitals all over the world needed huge amounts of PPE to deal with this virus. I don't see why the hospitals in the front line at the time would have been any exception to that. And it may be there were some Chinese people abroad who were alert to the speculative business opportunity. I don't see how anyone who believes in free markets can criticise them for that. Just the markets working as they should and sending the correct signals. Winner takes it all and losers come last as is the approved way.
Wage Slave wrote:I've pointed it out here before but the really hard hit area of Italy is the one who had hoards of Chinese workers flying in directly from Wuhan on the reg to work in sweatshops in Italy so they can still stamp "made in Italy" on designer products. The CCP could have sounded the alarm and attempted to quarantine foreigners but they were in cover up mode so allowed everyone to fly out internationally but locked out people from leaving the city to other parts of China. Was the intent to seed the world or just a shitty attempt to downplay and cover up? I lean to seed the world as the CCP was already silencing doctors and artificially lowering the data at this point. No problem here haha, nice day out iddnit?
You have said this but you haven't shown it to be the case. I don't remember seeing any link, but perhaps I am mistaken. You are pretty unique in believing this was the way the virus infected Europe as far as I can see. If the Chinese had prevented foreigners (including Italians) from travelling home there would have been hell to pay and that is obvious as is the fact Europe failed to quarantine returnees from the Wuhan area.
Wage Slave wrote:I'm sorry, but that video (which has been very widely shown) is not a reliable report. Who is it? Who made the video? and why? Probably someone with a very large axe to grind because it is deliberately very provocative.
Wage Slave wrote:Also, why is the only report of this? If it were real surely there should be lots of reports.
Wage Slave wrote:This is the problem. If you believe any old report on the internet that confirms your bias, then you end up in a very misled place. And you are subject to manipulation by any number of forces.
Wage Slave wrote:You can point to lots of videos about that clearly mad woman but you can only point to that one mad woman in a video who said she was buying up masks just to be evil. I don't recognize that as good evidence of a state sponsored plot.
You are making too many assumptions about me, what I think and my sources of information. Doing research does not consist of following a trail of dubious videos and blogs on the internet. These people are completely unaccountable, rarely present any real evidence for their confident assertions and are often downright fanciful. Take a look at QAnon if you need any confirmation of that.
Wage Slave wrote:I do recognise that China is run as a dictatorship and poses a threat to the world. I have no problem at all with concerted actions/sanctions to address that, rather like we had to do to South Africa. However, I see no sign that the US, under the current management, is interested in doing that. Rather the current administration seeks to grab headlines and deflect blame for political profit. By all means criticize China about their handling of the virus and a host of other issues. However, making highly emotive and ill founded accusations that attempt to blame China for everything that went wrong in America over handling the virus is not only dishonest and offensive but also deeply counterproductive. Politicians doing this are using the oldest trick in the book. In addition, it is noticeable that DT is not worried about many aspects of China's behavior - only a select few. Lack of democracy and human rights is not important - actually he seems to admire and envy it.
Wage Slave wrote:We should remember that this thread started because a Japanese pianist was beaten so badly he may well never play again. He didn't know his attackers and had no argument with them. They were heard to shout "Chinese!" as they attacked him. All I am saying is that the careless and emotional way the incumbent president and his supporters have talked and talk about China (He and they never say the Chinese Govt or CPC) helped to create that attack
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