Are you a 'Rice King' or 'Wonderbread Queen'?

[Taro Toporific]

.
The myth of the rice king
- - Why does Vancouver have far more white male-Asian female couples than vice-versa?
Vancouver Sun / February 14, 2004

[GomiGirl]

Very interesting article - am surprised that no-one else has replied as it could make for an interesting discussion - or were you all to lazy to click through and are just out trawling for graphics?

[Taro Toporific]

Very interesting article - am surprised that no-one else has replied as it could make for an interesting discussion - or were you all to lazy to click through and are just out trawling for graphics?

Actually it was suggested by another FG member on a "serious" academic forum. Also on a less-serious level, another FG, "Damaged", has a looooong rant on it in the Tokyo Damage Report -

KILLING THE DEBATE THAT WOULDN'T DIE!

Does the world really need yet another rant about inter-racial dating? Hell, my website ALONE is practically bursting at the seams with them. But it's precisely the unending monotony of this 'debate' which forces me to write this article. Because someone has to finally solve the damn problem so we can get back to arguing about OTHER dumb things, like 'is green day a sellout?' or 'that lord of the rings movie was better than the book / no it wasn't, jackass.'

So anyway the Asian American Female's popularity has risen faster than Asian American Male's. boring. Boring. Boring. It's no surprise that this has led to years and years of bitter acrimony between asian Americans. ...more...

[ramchop]

The article was interesting but it gives so many reasons to explain the trend it's hard to take a chip at it.

I'm all in favour of questioning stereotypes but if you're going to encourage debate you need someone to take an absolute stand: "This is the reason why.", then the flamers can wade in with their own theories. Most of the theories are covered in the article, and none are summarily dismissed.

... but maybe it's just that Asian girls and White guys are more beautiful than the rest and so naturally pair up. :P

[Alcazar]

That was a damn interesting more academic look at a real issue that WE all know about..

'If anything the rice king has an even worse rep. He's the leering creep who takes commerce courses at UBC just to meet Asian women. He trolls the nightclubs with the Shonen Knife CDs in his car and an all-Asian porn stash in the closet.

At best he connotes paper lanterns in the living room, anime books about schoolgirl heroines and The Pillow Book on DVD.

At worst he brings to mind mail-order brides and German sex tours to Pattaya's beachfront strip'.

Wot's wrong with the Penthouse hotel in Pataya? (pretty funny site there).
Something like 500,000 German tourists per year can't be wrong......

[Frost]

someone killed the story..its no longer there..damn and I wanted to read it too!

[Taro Toporific]

someone killed the story..its no longer there..damn and I wanted to read it too!

Yep. Newspapers are always doing bonehead things like that. Sorry I can't even recover the text from my browser cache. However, check out the more right-wing rant on the same topic....

Is Love Colorblind?by Steve Sailer
National Review
7/1/4/1997
While interracial marriage is increasingly accepted by whites,
a surprising number of Asian men and black women are bitterly opposed.
Why? ....

[Mr. Noodle]

someone killed the story..its no longer there..damn and I wanted to read it too!

Here ya go, switched to offline mode..... copied and pasted it, hehehe. I was going to paste in this thread, but its kinda big, so i spent about 1 minute and Hosted it here


Noodle

[Frost]

Thanks Mr. Noodle for hosting that!

[gkanai]

Mr. Noodle, thanks for finding and hosting the text. I may throw it up on my site as well.

I will out myself (as Taro already knows) as I was the one who heard about that article via the Just A Gwailo weblog.

Let me point folks to a few more interesting pieces of 'net history that I have uncovered with the help of Google and Usenet:

(note, these works are at least 10 years old, but I think the trends in interracial dating, if anything, have only accelerated)

disparity in Asian/white interracial dating FAQ by Tomoyuki Tanaka

Interracial Dating FAQ (repost) by Alan Hu
(Note: Alan Hu and Arthur Hu are 2 different people and are often confused as they both have written on the subject of interracial dating but from different perspectives.)

[cstaylor]

"This is the reason why.", then the flamers can wade in with their own theories.

Okay, my theory: height. My wife is 5'2", and I'm 5'8". Average height for women where I come from is around 5'6", which makes me unattractive from a height perspective.

[gkanai]

Actually FG "Damaged" has another hilarious "rant" on that same page:

ASIAN AMERICAN WOMEN AND THE END OF THE WORLD.

As late as the 1980s, AAFs were seen as unpopular, nerdy, and inferior to white women. They didn't have blonde hair, blue eyes, or big boobies, and they didn't look like any movie stars, and they never got to be prom queen. But now in places like California, AAFs have jumped right to the top of the ladder, becoming the most sought-after, high-status women in the 'dating pool.' When some white guy gets a $100,000-a-year job, and a new apartment and a fancy car, he has to get an Asian girl to go with it. While this might just seem like another petty and irritating example of yuppie bad taste and materialism, in truth it's not petty at all! Because, for the first time in all human existence, someone has gotten to the top of the ladder with NO STRUGGLE WHATSOEVER. That's not petty. That's amazing.

Another example: it's the Asian Woman's Prerogative to wear tight black clothes despite having the curveless bodies of 12 year old boys, and not get made fun of. Everyone has to act like that's totally natural and common sense. But really, what is the logic? 'Hey-- my boobs/butt/thighs only stick out a quarter inch, so I'd better wear something REALLY TIGHT otherwise nobody can see the curve at all'?? Again, if it was just one person doing it you could dismiss this trend as the product of a deranged mind, but actually most AAFs are doing it. That's not empowerment, that's just hubris!

Now THAT is some hilarious writing that is hits home because he is so right! What I love about Damaged's writing is that he pulls no punches. He says whatever he feels.

[Taro Toporific]

disparity in Asian/white interracial dating FAQ by Tomoyuki Tanaka

I was feeling a little guilty about posting a National Review article but.... "Tomoyuki Tanaka" OMGWTFBBQ!

TT-kun is the only person on since the old days of bulletin boards who I've ever tried to reach though my screen and strangle. I guess it must be the topic and the fact I get called a lamer Rice King far too often.

On the other hand, I worship the old school Tanaka Tomoyuki the "father" of my favorite Japanese.

[Alcazar]

I was feeling a little guilty about posting a National Review article but....

That article has real gems in it, for instance I learnt this:

For example, probably the most disastrous mistake Marcia Clark made in prosecuting O. J. Simpson was to complacently allow Johnny Cochran to pack the jury with black women. As a feminist, Mrs. Clark smugly assumed that all female jurors would identify with Nicole Simpson. She ignored pretrial research indicating that black women tended to see poor Nicole as The Enemy, one of those beautiful blondes who steal successful black men from their black first wives, and deserve whatever they get.

I was reading 'blacktokyo.com' one day and this term came up for white women-they were described as 'black man's kryptonite' by the (black) guys there-this was news to me, but I don't live in the US. Did everyone/anyone here know about this before?

And is this true, because it's not happening here and there are many asians. But they are mainly students from overseas and maybe don't want to commit to a relationship if they are only going to be here for a while. Its not that guys don't like them, I'm sure.

But now in places like California, AAFs have jumped right to the top of the ladder, becoming the most sought-after, high-status women in the 'dating pool.' When some white guy gets a $100,000-a-year job, and a new apartment and a fancy car, he has to get an Asian girl to go with it.

[GomiGirl]

Alcazar - so are you asking if us white chicks feel a sense of jealousy and want to scratch the eyes out of every J-girl we see with a white guy because she is "stealing our men"?

If you are, the answer is definately NOT!!

I guess there is not the same brotherhood/sisterhood that exists in the African American culture. If anything, the foreign girls in Japan are a bit repulsed by some (and I stress only SOME) of the behaviour of the foreign guys - mainly due to the inflated ego factor from the zero-to-hero-from-a-12-hour-flight syndrome. Now this is not everybody I know, but it does happen.

Actually there is an acceptance of the differences between AF and WF which is genetic and cultural and there no real desire to step into each others shoes - rather a happy co-existence and good friendships are often formed and retained. (an aside - How well do the foreign guys make good friends with the Japanese guys?)

Don't believe me? Check out some of the womens boards around Japan..

This topic in particular

Trust me, we are not all gagging for the charisma male, despite what he may think or want.

On foreign girls dating Japanese guys

A recent article in theTokyo Weekender

[gkanai]

That Caroline Pover commentary title is hilarious. "...men who are afraid to ask."

That said, I have to interject on behalf of the majority of Japanese men I have met; they find Japanese women more attractive than white women.

I've casually asked guys at the office who they are into and they always tell me so-and-so idol or so-and-so Japanese actress or so-and-so Japanese TV star, etc.

[Adhesive]

Kind of weird, but I have a Japanese friend who goes to college in California. One day I was browsing through his computer and there was nothing but Japanese porn. I asked if he ever looked at Caucasian girls and he told me they didn't really do anything for him. I'm sure there are plenty of Asian guys just like him.

I also think height, like mentioned, is an under-analyzed motivation for the discrepancies in interracial dating. On a macro level, I think the trends seem to show this.

[Alcazar]

Alcazar - so are you asking if us white chicks feel a sense of jealousy and want to scratch the eyes out of every J-girl we see with a white guy because she is "stealing our men"?

GomiGirl I wasn't implying that at all in my post, I was just showing my surprise at some things I had just discovered which I thought were pretty interesting.

They were to do with the US, and they are nuances that are probably obvious to Americans, but are interesting news to people not living there who don't really know how things work in the US.

But now that you brought it up, yes, I do think there would be a level of discomfort in Gaijin-women in Japan if asked to contemplate the fact that the G-guys in Japan are overwhelmingly with J-women-this is a natural reaction.

[GomiGirl]

But now that you brought it up, yes, I do think there would be a level of discomfort in Gaijin-women in Japan if asked to contemplate the fact that the G-guys in Japan are overwhelmingly with J-women-this is a natural reaction.

Well, again, as a person in the group that you are describing, I can tell you that is not the case. You of course will think what you like, but I can tell you that this is NOT a problem for me.

The only thing that is disconcerting is when foreign guys say nasty and unkind things to and about foreign girls. It is unneccessary but it happens alot.

[bejiita]

Naw, the real reason why there aren't that many asian male-caucasian female couples is that there are not enough men like William Hung to go around.

[mercutio]

Well, again, as a person in the group that you are describing, I can tell you that is not the case. You of course will think what you like, but I can tell you that this is NOT a problem for me.

Yes but Gomi... you have to admit... you are an exceptional woman.

To say that all of the women here thought like you would be a gross overstatement as well. My personal experience shows (and you were there that night :P ) that there are at least some white girls in Japan that really do feel some serious resentlment, but I think the resentment tends to be aimed more at the white guys and not the japanese girls.

like in so many things the straight, white (especially american) male is the quintessential icon of all evil in the world

[GomiGirl]

Well, again, as a person in the group that you are describing, I can tell you that is not the case. You of course will think what you like, but I can tell you that this is NOT a problem for me.

Yes but Gomi... you have to admit... you are an exceptional woman.

Well Mercutio, when you are right, you are right.

hehehe

To say that all of the women here thought like you would be a gross overstatement as well. My personal experience shows (and you were there that night :P ) that there are at least some white girls in Japan that really do feel some serious resentlment, but I think the resentment tends to be aimed more at the white guys and not the japanese girls.

like in so many things the straight, white (especially american) male is the quintessential icon of all evil in the world

Well I try to do my bit to break down the horrible stereotypes and ignorance that I agree is sadly out there. Yes you did cop flack from some of my mates that night but they sure copped it from me when I found out about it later. But you handled it with grace and for that I thank you.

BTW the English chick that was giving you the most grief is packing up and shipping back to the UK shortly. She can't take it that she is not a princess and centre of attention any longer. But she will soon find out that it is her own personality that is letting her down and not the fault of the male population.

In my experience there are as many ignorant sods as there are enlightened ones but it is just the ignorant ones that make the biggest (bad) impression.

[mercutio]

She can't take it that she is not a princess and centre of attention any longer. But she will soon find out that it is her own personality that is letting her down and not the fault of the male population.

In my experience there are as many ignorant sods as there are enlightened ones but it is just the ignorant ones that make the biggest (bad) impression.

True... true... but shes not the only one ive heard the whole "Yellow Fever" speech from... I wouldn't say they are in the majority even but I would say they are at least a statistically significant minority. Once again... not everyone is as intelligent/enlightened as you

by the way youre also right that we see foriegn guys in japan say/do nasty things towards foriegn girls in japan as well.... mainly from the zero2hero complex.... not all but again a statistically significant minority...

[kurohinge1]

Naw, the real reason why there aren't that many asian male-caucasian female couples is that there are not enough men like William Hung to go around.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Free Willy!

Even if free, I doubt you'd keep anyone listening to him without some major shackles keeping them there. But then it was staggering to see how many overly confident people with no talent were turning up for those auditions. Kind of like some of the loud lads you'll see in places like Gaspanic, etc.

Anyway, to comment on the topic I thought I'd add some factors from my experiences:

(1) Many more young J-females are travelling abroad than males, partly due to the pressures placed on J-males to go into uni and get a job. This gives the females far more opportunity to meet western guys than the other way around. My J-sister-in-law even told me about a travel company running courses for J-grooms (who had never been outside Japan) on travelling O/S so that they didn't look stupid in front of their wife (who in most cases had already travelled O/S a few times) on the O/S honeymoon.

(2) Most western guys treat J girls in a relationship considerably better than J-guys. There seems to be some peer pressure happening in Japan where it's weak to treat your girl decently. Of course there are exceptions, but I'm just passing on what I'm told by J-girls, and it seems to be less so with the younger folk.

(3) Most western guys will go after attractive females from any race but are usually the "hunters" whereas many western girls are less agressive/active, which doesn't combine well with shy aspects of many J-guys (who often describe western women as too up-front!).

Of course these are just some factors in the enormous soup of variables but I've also noticed the trend, so there's my two cents.

[American Oyaji]

Black women are VERY resentful when they see a Black man with anything but a Black woman.

Shooting the Breeze

This is a website populated by a lot of African Americans....mostly African American women.
(I'm Globetrotter there by the way)

This is in response to the Is Love Colorblind article.

[Caustic Saint]

Black women are VERY resentful when they see a Black man with anything but a Black woman.

That's another mix that I've seen cut both ways. Black women say it's "a waste of a perfectly good black man" and white guys say it's "a waste of a perfectly good white chick."

Never mind that they're both wrong in expecting people they may not even know to conform to their own view of "how things oughta be."

How do they feel about seeing one of their own (a black woman) with a guy who's not black?

[gkanai]

How do they feel about seeing one of their own (a black woman) with a guy who's not black?

It is a much more rare event (i.e. David Bowie and Iman) so there cannot be a direct comparison. You are not comparing apples to apples (even though both sets are pairs of people.)

As much as this topic fascinates me, the bottom line, to me, is that these trends merely reflect human nature. At the person-to-person level, we fall in love for all kinds of reasons, race included. At the macro level, we see the result of all of these personal choices.

I would, however, love to see any kind of data on divorce rates in interracial marriages vs. non-interracial. I have a sinking feeling that interracial marriages end at a higher rate than non-interracial ones.

[Caustic Saint]

How do they feel about seeing one of their own (a black woman) with a guy who's not black?

I would, however, love to see any kind of data on divorce rates in interracial marriages vs. non-interracial. I have a sinking feeling that interracial marriages end at a higher rate than non-interracial ones.

This data seems to indicate a slightly higher divorce rate, but not exceptionally so.

[Alcazar]

Black women are VERY resentful when they see a Black man with anything but a Black woman.
Shooting the Breeze
This is a website populated by a lot of African Americans....mostly African American women.
(I'm Globetrotter there by the way)
This is in response to the Is Love Colorblind article.

Damn AO, they didn't even want to consider reading the article, yet alone talking about what it said! Some people there were getting pretty upset.

I don't see why people tend to get so uptight about different races dating etc. I could understand if one group felt like they were really getting abandoned on a large scale, but in reality, the world has so many people that it's not like a few people's decisions are going to leave anyone without the chance of finding partners from whatever group they wish to.

eg. A black women complaining about black guys going off with non-blacks: So what? How many black guys to choose from are there?-millions. How many black guys to choose from that aren't in the US?-even more. This principle goes for everyone. People get looked over by potential partners for much more than their race: eg looks, status, income, background, education, social skills etc.

People were talking about the success of their inter-racial parings, re. divorce rates etc. But this is telling: One of the greatest predictors of future divorce and separation is if the female earns more than the male: divorce rate 50% higher in that situation.

[Taro Toporific]

How do they feel about seeing one of their own (a black woman) with a guy who's not black?

It is a much more rare event (i.e. David Bowie and Iman)
As much as this topic fascinates me, the bottom line, to me, is that these trends merely reflect human nature..

Well it ain't all that rare of an event since most American "blacks" are really cafe-au-lait . Yes, "this topic fascinates me" too gkanai. At my family's place in Chicago's upscale Northside I've made plenty of mistakes addressing Nihonjin-looking people in Japanese....50+ years of US bases in Japan have resulted in a lot of Japanese with great suntans.