It's official: Jenkins is faking & crazy

[Bongo]

[moog]

[AssKissinger]

If Jenkins is arrested he'll have his day in court. I read that he'll probably claim he was abducted and brainwashed not AWOL or a deserter. We shouldn't lynch the poor guy without a trial, should we?

BTW, welcome back Bongo...

the only dangerous action he was near was when he went out to score his stash of cocaine

I'm glad you brought your BULLSHIT with you.

[GuyJean]

even if bush went awol (he didn't)

OK. Prove to me he didn't. So far, Bush has no proof he was present at his duties.. I think the opposite of 'present' is 'absent'... So, please enlighten me as to what the military term is for 'not present at the job you signed up to do'.

it's nowhere near the same as jenkins DESERTING.

OK. Again, prove to me Jenkins deserted. So far, from what I know, there are conflicting stories. Aren't there reports he was 'abducted'? Wouldn't modern knowledge of NK abduction policies point to this possibly being true?

Honestly, give me prove he deserted and I'll believe it. Until then, he went AWOL.. Or, I guess I should say 'Not Present at Job He Signed Up For' (NPAJHSU).

Shouldn't the president of the free world be MORE scrutinized than a common foot soldier? Who knows? Quite possibly, while Bush was AWOL he was selling military secrets to his family buddies, the Bin Ladens. (jk)

GJ

[moog]

even if bush went awol (he didn't)

OK. Prove to me he didn't. So far, Bush has no proof he was present at his duties.. I think the opposite of 'present' is 'absent'... So, please enlighten me as to what the military term is for 'not present at the job you signed up to do'.

it's nowhere near the same as jenkins DESERTING.

OK. Again, prove to me Jenkins deserted. So far, from what I know, there are conflicting stories. Aren't there reports he was 'abducted'? Wouldn't modern knowledge of NK abduction policies point to this possibly being true?

Honestly, give me prove he deserted and I'll believe it. Until then, he went AWOL.. Or, I guess I should say 'Not Present at Job He Signed Up For' (NPAJHSU).

Shouldn't the president of the free world be MORE scrutinized than a common foot soldier? Who knows? Quite possibly, while Bush was AWOL he was selling military secrets to his family buddies, the Bin Ladens. (jk)

GJ

you had me, but you lost me in your kooky, fringe-left conspiracy theorist blather.

like all extreme fringes (left and right) none are intellectually honest with themselves.

[GuyJean]

you had me, but you lost me in your kooky, fringe-left conspiracy theorist blather.

OK. I'll simplify it for you]like all extreme fringes (left and right) none are intellectually honest with themselves.[/quote] ----------

Oh, I get it; you're one of those 'fair and balanced' types.. Apologies for questioning your unproven claims.

GJ

[AssKissinger]

Quite possibly, while Bush was AWOL he was selling military secrets to his family buddies, the Bin Ladens.

Left-wing nutterism? Two facts: 1)After 9/11 the bin Laden family was escorted immediately out of the country. 2)When we had bin Laden's ass surrounded at Tora Bora suddenly America withdrew and left the capturing to native Muslim militias. http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A62618-2002Apr16?language=printer

The Bush administration has concluded that Osama bin Laden was present during the battle for Tora Bora late last year and that failure to commit U.S. ground troops to hunt him was its gravest error in the war against al Qaeda, according to civilian and military officials with first-hand knowledge.

In the fight for Tora Bora, corrupt local militias did not live up to promises to seal off the mountain redoubt, and some colluded in the escape of fleeing al Qaeda fighters.

Why the fuck in God's name can anyone tell me were we using 'corrupt local militia' to do the most important military operation in American history since WW2?

[GuyJean]

Quite possibly, while Bush was AWOL he was selling military secrets to his family buddies, the Bin Ladens.

I was kind of joking about this]Why the fuck in God's name can anyone tell me were we using 'corrupt local militia' to do the most important military operation in American history since WW2?[/quote] I 150% agree. It boggles the mind. Or, at least, it should.

GJ

[Socratesabroad]

[quote="GuyJean"]
So the meaning of AWOL has a grey area? Has it been proven Jenkin's collaborated with NK? Until they prove it, he's only guilty of the same crime Bush is]

Photo: Jenkins as Col. Klaus, the CIC commander, in the Unsung Heroes, a North Korean spy thriller

Film Review: The Unsung Heroes (이름 없는 영웅들)

[Bongo]

you had me, but you lost me in your kooky, fringe-left conspiracy theorist blather.

OK. I'll simplify it for you]like all extreme fringes (left and right) none are intellectually honest with themselves.

----------

Oh, I get it; you're one of those 'fair and balanced' types.. Apologies for questioning your unproven claims.

GJ[/quote]

Yeah, fair and balanced. They start on the right and keep going in the general direction of Bush, Cheney and the rest of the corporate criminals in the US!
Then, they find out they are coming back on the left as they have similar policies to NK, like off the map prison camps where they murder the inmates who have been arrested on pure suspicion. What a Fucking joke these guys are.

[Bongo]

[moog]

[quote="GuyJean"]

Oh, I get it]

your attempt to label me a conservative is pretty feeble and laughable since i'm not, but i accept your apology nonetheless.

[vvx]

Left-wing nutterism? Two facts: 1)After 9/11 the bin Laden family was escorted immediately out of the country.

Well, if 8 days is "immediately" (about a week after flight restrictions had been lifted.)

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?id=104

[GuyJean]

Photo: Jenkins as Col. Klaus, the CIC commander, in the Unsung Heroes, a North Korean spy thriller

Film Review: The Unsung Heroes (?? ?? ???)

This is proof Jenkin's deserted? A picture and a film he made while in NK?

Wasn't a famous South Korean actress 'abducted' in the 50s and forced to perform for Lil' Kim? I believe I remember seeing an interview with her on Japanese television. So, since she made movies for Lil Kim this also proves she fled to NK rather than was abducted. Or what about the Japanese families? Didn't they receive special treatment after being abducted? Like food? We should be questioning their stories as well.

I'm talking proof. From military records, stories from other soldiers serving with him, accounts of the day he left his post, etc.. I'm still not convinced from a grainy black and white picture and film review.

GJ

[GuyJean]

your attempt to label me a conservative is pretty feeble and laughable since i'm not,

Oh, but wait. I thought:

like all extreme fringes (left and right) none are intellectually honest with themselves.

So, you may not even know what you are, right?

but i accept your apology nonetheless.

When you show me evidence Bush wasn't AWOL and Jenkins deserted, you'll get more than an apology; you'll get a believer.

GJ

[GuyJean]

Left-wing nutterism? Two facts: 1)After 9/11 the bin Laden family was escorted immediately out of the country.

Well, if 8 days is "immediately" (about a week after flight restrictions had been lifted.)
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?id=104

Doesn't it seem like the CIA and FBI might want to have a chat with them? Eight days was enough to gather all the needed evidence? They work fast.

GJ

[Socratesabroad]

I'm talking proof. From military records, stories from other soldiers serving with him, accounts of the day he left his post, etc.. I'm still not convinced from a grainy black and white picture and film review.

From military records

The Jenkins charge sheet, approved by his company commander on March 15, 1965, says that as a member of Company C, 1st Battalion, 8th Cavalry, 1st Cavalry Division, Jenkins "did, on or about 5 January 1965, without proper authority and with intent to remain away permanently, absent himself from his organization."

stories from other soldiers serving with him

Days later, his arrival in North Korea was broadcast over the loudspeakers on the DMZ,
according to Nobuharu Kumada, a Japanese man who says he served with Mr Jenkins.

accounts of the day he left his post

The Army quoted from the four notes it says Jenkins left in his barracks.
The one addressed to his mother is said to state: ''I am sorry for the trouble I will cause you. I know what I will have to do. I am going to North Korea. Tell family I love them very much.'' It is signed, ``Love, Charles.''

[quote="Same source"]
Of the three other notes, one says he was leaving the lock on his wall locker for ''PDL'' because ''I don't need it anymore.'' Another says ''Sgt. Cain'' can have Jenkins' field jacket, and the fourth reveals the combination to the lock on his foot locker. ``It is hard to open]

[GuyJean]

From military records
stories from other soldiers serving with him
accounts of the day he left his post

That's more like it. Could I get the links for those?

GJ

[Socratesabroad]

The AP report is a wire one you can find anywhere, but here's one paper that carried it:
http://www.harktheherald.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=29531

Similarly, the second report is from the BBC, though other sources also carried it:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3753967.stm

[cstaylor]

Where was it I was reading that the letter was a plant because he never went by the name "Charles" with his family?

[GuyJean]

Similarly, the second report is from the BBC, though other sources also carried it:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3753967.stm

He was leading a patrol near the Korean Demilitarized Zone (DMZ), when he told his platoon he was going to investigate a noise. He never came back.

Days later, his arrival in North Korea was broadcast over the loudspeakers on the DMZ, according to Nobuharu Kumada, a Japanese man who says he served with Mr Jenkins.

The US military has said Mr Jenkins left behind four notes which stated his intention to defect.

"I am sorry for the trouble I will cause you. I know what I have to do. I am going to North Korea. Tell family I love them very much. Love, Charles," one of the notes, allegedly left near his footlocker, is reported to have said.

But James Hyman, a nephew in North Carolina, said that the military has no hard evidence of his uncle's supposed defection, and believes instead he was kidnapped.

He pointed out that the army lost the original copies of the notes.

"Of course they weren't able to be found. There were no four letters," he told BBC News Online.

[The quoted note] "was signed 'Love, Charles,' and the family didn't know him as Charles. They knew him as Robert or 'Super'," Mr Hyman said.

He said his uncle was a loyal serviceman who would not have deserted.

"Every time I saw him he always had his uniform on," Mr Hyman, who was four years old when he last saw Mr Jenkins. ..

Hhhhmmm. Not sure if this is proof.. Interesting how the military always lose those critical documents that back up their claims..

The AP report is a wire one you can find anywhere, but here's one paper that carried it:
http://www.harktheherald.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=29531

Among the documents is an intelligence message to the Army's top general saying Jenkins "apparently defected." (based on the four notes)...

On the basis of that statement, and little else that is apparent from the available personnel records, the Army concluded within weeks of his disappearance that Jenkins was a deserter and in violation of Article 85 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

Portions of the released Army records on the Jenkins case are blacked out. The rest of the documents provide no indication of a motivation for deserting. ...

Jenkins had a spotless record after joining the Army in 1955. In November 1961, shortly after completing his first tour of duty in Korea, Jenkins was given a Good Conduct Award for "exemplary behavior, efficiency and fidelity."

So four copies of notes, of which the military lost the originals, have convicted Jenkins of being a deserter.. Pretty circumstantial, if you ask me. Quite possibly true, but also quite possibly not.

GJ

[Socratesabroad]

I'm still not convinced from a grainy black and white picture and film review.

He did much, much more than show up in a film

Jenkins and the three other US deserters later appeared on the cover of Fortune's Favorites, a North Korean propaganda pamphlet published around 1965. It is believed Jenkins also made several radio broadcasts in support of Pyongyang during the late 1960s.

Jenkins next surfaced in the 1980s in a widely viewed North Korean propaganda movie titled Nameless Heroes, Chapter 20. In the fiercely anti-US film, Jenkins plays a sinister US intelligence official, who looks like a cross between Count Dracula and a creepy Samurai warrior in a business suit.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/FF05Dh05.html

Jenkins also plays Gen. Walker, the US 8th Army commander, in another North Korean movie - The People and Its Destiny.

http://www.kimsoft.com/2004/jenkins.htm

It appears Jenkins was working as an English teacher, possibly coaching spies.

"The purpose of all this English education is mostly for spy operations in South Korea," Suh [Suh Dae Sook, a retired political scientist and expert on North Korea] said.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/content/shared-gen/ap/Other_US_Govermnent/Jenkins_Intelligence_Value.html

the incriminating radio broadcasts, and his appearance, according to the Pentagon, in a North Korean propaganda film called Nameless Heroes.

And for the pi&#232]
Lieutenant Commander Flex Plexico told the BBC that the alleged letters and propaganda broadcasts amounted to "pretty strong evidence."
[/quote]

[Socratesabroad]

Hhhhmmm. Not sure if this is proof.. Interesting how the military always lose those critical documents that back up their claims..

[snip]

So four copies of notes, of which the military lost the originals, have convicted Jenkins of being a deserter.. Pretty circumstantial, if you ask me. Quite possibly true, but also quite possibly not.

I'm at a loss as to what level of proof would satisfy you, seeing as how even the US civilian legal system has no requirement for absolute certainty. Short of you personally witnessing Jenkins defection, I'm gathering that there is little proof whatsoever I could direct you to that would ever convince you. Luckily, there is no need to convince you personally as the matter can all be handled by a military court under the UCMJ .

[GuyJean]

"The review I posted (and which you appear to have never read)"]

Again, I bring up the South Korean actress Kim was obsessed with, and abducted for his own personal movie making gain.. (can't find info, at the moment) Did she emmigrate to NK willingly? Because Jenkins played a certain kind of character in a movie assures guilt of desertion?

And for the pi&#232]
Lieutenant Commander Flex Plexico told the BBC that the alleged letters and propaganda broadcasts amounted to "pretty strong evidence."

[/quote] Copies of possibly fabricated letters and being an English teaching talento is 'pretty strong evidence'.? Not sure if that'll hold up in court considering his family says the letters are shit.

It's getting more apparent, but for some reason I still believe in American ideals; innocent until proven otherwise.

Thanks for the research. I still have an open, although leaning mind on the subject.

GJ

[Socratesabroad]

Again, I bring up the South Korean actress Kim was obsessed with, and abducted for his own personal movie making gain.. (can't find info, at the moment) Did she emmigrate to NK willingly? Because Jenkins played a certain kind of character in a movie assures guilt of desertion?

I honestly have no idea which actress or incident you're referring to, some I've kept quiet on that one. FWIW, all of the info I posted referred specifically to Jenkins. And he's been in more than just one movie - radio, TV, film, etc. as the sites I posted explained.

Copies of possibly fabricated letters and being an English teaching talento is 'pretty strong evidence'.? Not sure if that'll hold up in court considering his family says the letters are shit.

Umm, if he was just an eikaiwa teacher people'd probably hold less of a judge, but seeing as how he was probably (and I say probably because a court hasn't established how fully) teaching English to North Korean intelliegence agents, i.e., spies.

[quote="GuyJean"]
It's getting more apparent, but for some reason I still believe in American ideals]
As do I, and those ideals also state that the standard for determining guilt is not 100% certainty but 'beyond a reasonable doubt.' I just hope Jenkins lives long enough to get his day in military court and his just deserts, if you will.

Is it just me, or are the similarities uncanny...

[Bongo]

Typical American Reds under the bed mentality.
When really they should be concerned about the right wing religious fanatics in the white house!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bush starts every day on his knees in prayer. He reads the Bible each morning and studies a Bible lesson daily.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Controversy erupted last year when The Washington Post reported that Attorney General
John Ashcroft holds daily Bible studies at the Justice Department. Some staffers said they
felt uncomfortable about those sessions because their boss led them and they felt pressure to attend.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.jerusalemites.org/articles/english/47.htm

[American Oyaji]

I'll say this...

They probably hooked Jenkins up with some lady and then threatened to kill her if he didnt go along.

Or they threatened to kill him.


I need more hard proof to convict this guy. Copies of lost records do not fly in this day and age of photoshopology.

[jingai]

North Korea had no problem abducting Japanese to steal their identities and help train spies- if they needed an American to star in movies and teach English, what would stop them from fooling/luring/abducting one from the border?

[Socratesabroad]

Typical American Reds under the bed mentality.
When really they should be concerned about the right wing religious fanatics in the white house!

[quietly hiding any sharp utencils] I'd post my typical Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie link for you, but I have a sneaking suspicion you'd need a lot more than just the beanie...

[GuyJean]

I bring up the South Korean actress Kim was obsessed with, and abducted for his own personal movie making gain.

Found it!
Kim Jong-il
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/kim-jong-il.htm

Kim Jong Il is a movie fanatic, and is said to hav a collection of over 20,000 films. In 1978, in order to advance the North Korean film industry, he ordered North Korean agents to abduct the famous South Korean movie director Shin Sang Ok and his ex-wife, actress Che Eun Hui, and kept them for eight years while making them produce propaganda films. During that time, the two became very well acquainted with Kim Jong Il, and after escaping in 1986, they wrote a book exposing his decadent lifestyle.

Another source:
http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:JvCj1UYuE1YJ:www.pitt.edu/~ctnst3/ronbun.html+Che+Eun+Hui+book&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

That fucking traitor bitch! The firing squad is all she's good for! Running to NK, living decadently with Kim, making propaganda films, then returning to write a book?. and to profit even more?! Farking money grubbing whore!

Jenkin's lawyer better read her story.

GJ