Japanese, Once About Resumes, Is Now About Cool

[gkanai]

[Andocrates]

[Taro Toporific]

Page 1!

Jeeze...

These days, the serious business types aren't focusing on Japanese; they're taking Chinese instead.... "That's where the money's going to be,"

..... Mr. LaForce says he likes anime because it includes the Eastern philosophical elements that aren't seen in typical American cartoons -- like demons interacting with humans.

Maybe they could install an anime geek detector at Narita.

[Skankster]

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It has always been that way. When I started taking Japanese anyone who was not asian (they just wanted an easy A) would be a anime/pop culture fan.

That is why that bitch Ms. Hirai near flunked me even though I was the best achiever there.

Im laughing now.

[maraboutslim]

Interesting read I think any reason is good enough to learn a language. America has the lowest percentage of bilingual people on the planet (or is that Japan?)

I'm not aware of the bilingaulism statistics in other areas of the planet, but your implication that few Americans are bilingual is not quite true.

According to the 2000 U.S. Census, 47million Americans speak a language other than English at home (and nearly all of them report speaking English somewhat decently, too). 28mil of these spoke Spanish. That leaves 19mil Americans speaking other languages such as Chinese, Russian, German, French, etc. Russian is the fastest growing.

To that 47mil you can add the number of folks who know another language but use English as their language at home and I think you'll see that Americans are much more multilingual than most people think.

-Slim (whose home language is of course Japanese)

[Andocrates]

Doesn't that boil down to 1 in 6 The statistics I read were only 10% of Americans are bilingual. (so 1 in 10) You have to remove first generation immigrants from that list and it's pretty dismal.

English speaking countries as a group lag way behind simply because English has become the world language. If you grow up in Taiwan or Germany you will learn English before it's all over with. Americans don't HAVE to learn a language and so they don't..

[kamome]

Maybe they could install an anime geek detector at Narita.

That thing would be beeping off the hook. These people are living in a fantasyland.

[AlbertSiegel]

Does Southern English and California English count as two?

Southern = It's fix'n to storm

California = It's going to rain

[Watcher]

You can't slag Americans as being monolingual (or is that mono-sylabic?... no that's just their current thief-in-chief). I find almost every member of the "stars and bars" I know can speak 2 languages (Spanish, Arabic, French, Cantonese, Mandarin, Greek, and Ukrainian). But none of them learned because of some "coolness" factor... they either had friends, travelled, or learned because they had to for a job. None of the Japanese studying English seriously feel the need to know how to say "Baka" in English.
What is this drive so many have to learn only how to speak gutteral Japanese?

[Mulboyne]

It has always been that way. When I started taking Japanese anyone who was not asian (they just wanted an easy A) would be a anime/pop culture fan.

I don't think it has always been that way. Anime/pop culture is a recent catalyst getting people to learn Japanese. Perhaps the focus on Business Japanese courses was an anomaly along the way. In the UK, Japanese studies was always seen as part of an orientalist academic path. Kanji appealed to crossword-puzzler types, cryptologists and Latin specialists who enjoyed bringing dead texts to life and had no thought of running the Tokyo office of a bank. Chinese studies and Japanese studies went hand-in-hand.

Why else were people studing Japanese before the 80's? Religion. "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" was a standard part of the counter culture toolkit and brought people to Japan. Martial arts enthusiasts have been heading to Japan for years. People wanting to find an Asian babe or, not uncommonly, an Asian boy, did the same in the 50s, 60s, 70s. And still do.

I think any reason is good enough to learn a language

I completely agree. And it helps you learn the language if you have that reason is something that enthuses you. While I cringe when I read about someone

who also goes by the Japanese name Reiko

if she likes what she is doing and puts the effort in, then all power to her.

[AssKissinger]

You can't slag Americans as being monolingual (or is that mono-sylabic?... no that's just their current thief-in-chief). I find almost every member of the "stars and bars" I know can speak 2 languages (Spanish, Arabic, French, Cantonese, Mandarin, Greek, and Ukrainian). But none of them learned because of some "coolness" factor... they either had friends, travelled, or learned because they had to for a job. None of the Japanese studying English seriously feel the need to know how to say "Baka" in English.
What is this drive so many have to learn only how to speak gutteral Japanese?

Bush speaks Spanish.

[Charles]

Why else were people studing Japanese before the 80's? Religion.

I will confess, that was one of my motivations for studying Japanese. It was quite a few years later when I found out the Japanese religious documents I wanted to read were mostly written in Chinese. Oops!

But mostly I studied for practical business reasons. I worked in computers with Japanese corporations in LA in the bubble era. Then later I worked with graphics companies, we used to work with Japanese hardware, expensive stuff like $250k drum scanners, and the company was always sending engineers over with a translator accompanying them. After a few discussions with the translator, I discovered he was making more money than the engineers. I thought it might be lucrative to be a bilingual engineer.

When I decided to act on my vague plan, going back to school around 1992, most of the J lang students were business majors, a few Asian Religion majors, and a few aikido/karate fans. The reality of the bubble popping hadn't fully set in. When I graduated in 1996, it was mostly otaku and manga dweebs entering the program. The professors were all disgusted with the new breed of students. I watched the program over the years, not one single manga/anime/otaku type person ever attained any serious level of fluency. They all dropped out or underachieved, due to wasting too many hours on their comics, video games, etc.

[Charles]

Bush speaks Spanish.

No. He speaks Texican. He's never been observed answering a question or responding to any Spanish statement. He's been observed butchering spoken Spanish on multiple occasions. He can barely speak a Spanish phrase if it's written down for him and he practices it in advance. Kind of like his problems with English. Like today for example, when Bush said:

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."

It is worth noting that George W. Bush flunked out of Japanese at Yale.

http://www.georgewbush.org/bios/yale-transcript.asp

[AssKissinger]

There ain't nothing about Japanese on your link. I think I smell some BULLSHIT.

[Cubed]

There ain't nothing about Japanese on your link. I think I smell some BULLSHIT.

Have a look in the rigth hand column, about half way down - he got 27 / ????? for Japanese. Yeah, he flunked it.

When I graduated from Sheffield Uni in the UK with economics and Japanese, it got me diddly-squat. Companies looked at my CV like I was a warped.

Suitmonkey: "So why did you study Japanese with economics?"
Me: "Because it was a challenge and because I thought it would be useful"
Suitmonkey: "Hehehe. He's crazy. He learny Japaneezy. Hehe. Is it lunchtime yet?"

[gkanai]

When I graduated in 1996, it was mostly otaku and manga dweebs entering the program. The professors were all disgusted with the new breed of students. I watched the program over the years, not one single manga/anime/otaku type person ever attained any serious level of fluency. They all dropped out or underachieved, due to wasting too many hours on their comics, video games, etc.

It seems as if the new breed of American otaku are persevering? I wonder though- the sample size is just UGA. I know at my college Japanese is not more popular than it used to be. Interest seems to stay constant, which is to say that it is a niche major.

[puargs]

Just out of personal experience, my first year of Japanese classes at college were plagued with geeks and anime nerds. We started with 32 people in the class, but it dropped down to 8 and stayed that way after about 3 weeks. Something could be said about the Japanese program at my college; it was 5 semester hours and had required attendance classes every day. It seems to me that only the people who really wanted to learn Japanese for a vocational calling take these classes and learn the language well.

I suppose it's quite possible for someone motivated enough to learn it for other reasons, but I see just way too many fantasy-anime-land nerds take the class and bomb out after they realize Japan and the Japanese language aren't as easy as the cartoons make them seem. My two cents!

[plaid_knight]

Suitmonkey: "So why did you study Japanese with economics?"
Me: "Because it was a challenge and because I thought it would be useful"
Suitmonkey: "Hehehe. He's crazy. He learny Japaneezy. Hehe. Is it lunchtime yet?"

I was fairly disappointed with the attitudes of a lot of
suitmonkey tards in the States, but then I try really hard to avoid
them as much as possible.

[Skankster]

It has always been that way. When I started taking Japanese anyone who was not asian (they just wanted an easy A) would be a anime/pop culture fan.

I don't think it has always been that way.

I am refering to a real Red Blooded American.
Excluding easy A Asians -- who never picked up the language anyway.



>> Puargs,

I know one guy that was into anime and he exerted effort writing all the kanji (1945)
Once he did that he was pretty good at Japanese reading.

He later grew up to become a dealer of Urabon in the US Manga convention curciut (US$6-7000 a convention).
Not bad for a dummy, huh!?

[kotatsuneko]

i feel for you Cubed, but then we all know that 99% of people in the uk are ignorant motherfuckers..

[plaid_knight]

It makes me glad to hear that professors are starting to
use manga and anime in their Japanese classes -- I had hoped
on doing exactly that when I teach a Japanese class at
community college in the coming years.

[Faded]

- he got 27 / ????? for Japanese. Yeah, he flunked it.

Perhaps not. I could easily be mistaken, but it looks like that's the course #. (as in History 35u(?),Spanish 40) the columns on the right are the "scores". For Japanese he recieved a HP, whatever that means (they gave him a cheap PC?) But it does seem like he only took it for one semester, probably pass/fail.

It could have been worse, he could have done what his Father did to the Japanese (Orally defecating on their lap )

As for classes, when I took Japanese at a major US Univ. in the early 90's they only offered 2 classes (which was taught by an Australian, was definitely interesting), each of which only had 15-20 students in there. Most folk were either the business major, but a few of us actually had a general interest (okay maybe an Otaku or two).
In my class the Business folk were the ones that did the worst, simply cause they were looking for a secondary skill for their resume, and only wanted to learn "enough to get by". It was the ones that had the actual interest invested in learning, for learning's sake, that actual tried to achieve and excel.

[Mulboyne]

It has always been that way. When I started taking Japanese anyone who was not asian (they just wanted an easy A) would be a anime/pop culture fan.

I don't think it has always been that way.

I am refering to a real Red Blooded American.

I was referring to white westerners too. You couldn't find anime/pop culture fans in years gone by. For a start, manga has only been widely distributed in English translation since the late 80s so there was no real entry point for it to stimulate interest it has generated today. The anime that made it to TV was rarely identified as Japanese so few made that connection. I'm sure your experience is common but it's a recent trend. Of course, anyone picking up a good working knowledge of the language could easily develop an interest in pop culture but it wasn't their primary motivation for learning the language. Yellow Magic Orchestra and "Shogun" made more of an impression than manga back then.

[Charles]

It seems as if the new breed of American otaku are persevering?

Unlikely. It is just as likely that standards have been lowered. I know my own school's program was split up, the course I took for 4 semester hours, is now 2 courses for 3 semester hours each. Students are doing the same work (or less) and getting more credit for it.

And there is my problem with manga/anime dorks in the Japanese programs. They are causing the whole program to be dumbed-down. I got my degree before there was any such thing as American otaku taking Japanese. I studied seriously, and got good grades. Now, due to these damn idiots, I am afraid to even show people my degree, they think I'm an otaku. My degree has been devalued. Fortunately, I have other degrees in other subjects.

I often think of something a friend said, as we were graduating. I said I was glad our Japanese program had a good reputation and was known as one of the best in the world. He said he didn't care about their reputation when he graduated, he cared about its reputation a few years down the line, when he's sending out his resumes for his 2nd or 3rd job.

[jingai]

[Watcher]

Bush speaks Spanish.

Really well too... looked what I googled real quickly.

For an example of something simple :

This is a quote between Bush and Matthews that was aired on Hardball on MSNBC on May 31, 2000
Bush: "First of all, Cinco de Mayo is not the independence day. That's diecis&#233]RECORDED IN ADVANCE

The president did not write the prerecorded speech, which most radio stations received from the White House on Friday. Listeners in South Florida first heard it just after 10 a.m. The speech was aired mostly without comment, but listeners reaching talk shows and news programs showered Bush with praise for making the effort, even though he sometimes used unlikely phrasing.

In the English translation of the speech, Bush, referring to the Mexican president, said: ``We are committed to working together in common purpose.''

Purists might quibble with the Spanish phrasing of Estamos comprometidos de trabajar juntos, which could be misinterpreted as saying the two men are matrimonially engaged. A more correct form would have been Nos hemos comprometido a trabajar juntos -- ``We have made a commitment. . . .''[/url]

[devicenull]

[Skankster]

-
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It has always been that way. When I started taking Japanese anyone who was not asian (they just wanted an easy A) would be a anime/pop culture fan.

I don't think it has always been that way.

I am refering to a real Red Blooded American.

I was referring to white westerners too. You couldn't find anime/pop culture fans in years gone by.

So either u are WAY older than I, or we should agree to disagree.

I do think however that we are seeing an increase in demand for pedophillic content in the western world.

[Mulboyne]

Look like we don't disagree, I'm just

WAY older

I'll be the one in the bar crying in my beer tonight